*** Super Fight: Manny Pacquiao vs. 'Sugar' Shane Mosley OFFICIAL thread ***
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I agree with this. PED's helping out in boxing is bullshit. Floyd would still be by far the better boxer.Seriously I do agree with this statement though. I think Floyd is full of shit with his "I'm trying to clean up the sport" horseshit. I think Floyd had his reservations but I wouldn't be surprised after seeing what I know he saw tonight, that he presses to make this fight happen.
Exactly. I never said Floyd was scared shitless because I personally think that most boxers are not scared to fight another guy. However, when you get to a certain strategic level, there are certain guys you may not want to fight with right away for stylistic reasons. Guys like Bernard Hopkins know this. I don't believe Hopkins would ever take a fight that he did not think he could win 100%. It's not about being scared. I think Floyd saw certain things in Manny's style that could throw him off or maybe put him at risk of getting outpointed.
I agree. Floyd probably saw slippage in Manny and might want him now. It'll say a lot about Floyd if the fight suddenly becomes doable after Pac looks shitty.
I can agree with that.
I agree with this. PED's helping out in boxing is bullshit. Floyd would still be by far the better boxer.
Totally agree, especially with that last sentence.
Shane attempted to fight the fight that I and plenty others thought he should fight. He was actually successful in this sense. He failed in not being able to offensively capitalize on any of this. Had he just followed up with the straight right immediately after that jab he could have had a much better fight. He frustrated Manny for I would say 70% of the fight with his defense.
Floyd is a defensive genius so imagine how frustrated he can make Pac. And like tonight Pac's frustrations would lead to tremendous mistakes like that crazy looping left he kept throwing and missing, particularly in the early rounds. Floyd would counter and kill him all day with that shit.
You are so bitter it's funny. I must have scarred you for life!
Yes, Zef. The fact that you say some of the things that you do and are functional enough to live without assistance is disheartening while at the same time a sad commentary on how dumb people are in this day and age.
That's funny. I thought that's what Pac was doing for the last 2 years, fighting guys who looked shitty in their last fight and coming off losses. As a matter of fact, didn't Pac do that tonight? What does that say about Manny?
Again, tragic comedy.
No slippage. Manny's in his prime, he's been running everybody over. He just saw that Manny isn't the beast that the media and his fans have built him up to be.
I agree with this. PED's helping out in boxing is bullshit. Floyd would still be by far the better boxer.
I disagree homie. Peds aren't going to make you a better boxer but they sure as hell do help fighters in training. They help them to recover faster, which enables them to train harder and more often. In Pacman's case I don't think PEDS will help him beat Mayweather, but they can help him be more prepared physically to compete with Mayweather. I'm not saying Manny is using Peds, just saying that taking peds can benefit a fighter. With all that said, I do get the feeling that lil Floyd is a lil threatened by Pacman, and that he really doesn't desire to fight anymore.
That's funny. I thought that's what Pac was doing for the last 2 years, fighting guys who looked shitty in their last fight and coming off losses. As a matter of fact, didn't Pac do that tonight? What does that say about Manny?
Again, tragic comedy.
That's true too. In reality, all of the top guys at 147 have been looking shitty. Maybe it says Manny should retire. Seriously. Who else should Manny fight? Marquez again? Maybe he should drop down to junior welter and campaign there. There doesn't seem like there's much less to do at 147. Mosley was like the leftover crumbs of the division and Mayweather's inactive, Berto just lost, etc.
Freddie needs to blow this up and put it in the gym for Manny to study.
I agree with everything except Hopkins. I think Hopkins believes he can beat everyone (and damn near has) so I don't really think he cherry picks. I just think he's trying to be smarter about the fights he does pick since he has so few left.
If you look back he was calling out Roy after he beat Trinidad and it was Roy who was ducking him.
He fought Taylor when he had no real name and there was no real call for him to fight him, nobody would have said shit if he didn't.
He fought Calzaghe, which stylistically would always be a tough fight, when he didn't have to. He fought Tarver and Pavlik when nobody in the world gave him a chance in hell to win (Particularly against Pavlik).
The same with this last Pascal fight, nobody gave him a shot and he took a kid 20 years younger to school and I expect him to do it again in two weeks.
Yeah. And Floyd like Manny, also hits you with punches you don't see coming, and his power is underrated. Manny loves to jump in with his entire body which creates a lot of momentum, momentum that would be added to any punches floyd lands while countering. I wouldn't be surprised if he puts Manny down hard, I also wouldn't be surpised if Floyd went down early either. Well, kinda surprised.
I agree with this. PED's helping out in boxing is bullshit. Floyd would still be by far the better boxer.
That "Cleaning up the sport" shit... I 100% agree. In fact, I see Floyd's camp looking at Pac' success saying that shit is impossible, which really led to the testing shit.
I don't think it is fear or apathy with boxing per se because Floyd's first come back was all about getting Pac. Floyd fought Marquez to setup the fight with Pac. Now all of Pac excuses and running away from negotiations is suspect as hell, and in my opinion, that fact that majority of the boxing world ignored that probably turned Floyd sour to the game. I still can't see how a reasonable person would say Floyd fucked it up with all the information in front of them.
Well, he still seemed like a beast to me but just a beast on an off night. C'mon man, even freaking Roberto Duran had horrible off nights and lost to guys a lot worse than Shane Mosley. He would go from those off nights to surprising everybody in his next fight against quality opposition like when he beat and dropped Iran Barkley at 38 years old several weight divisions away from his prime.
I agree with everything except Hopkins. I think Hopkins believes he can beat everyone (and damn near has) so I don't really think he cherry picks. I just think he's trying to be smarter about the fights he does pick since he has so few left.
If you look back he was calling out Roy after he beat Trinidad and it was Roy who was ducking him.
He fought Taylor when he had no real name and there was no real call for him to fight him, nobody would have said shit if he didn't.
He fought Calzaghe, which stylistically would always be a tough fight, when he didn't have to. He fought Tarver and Pavlik when nobody in the world gave him a chance in hell to win (Particularly against Pavlik).
The same with this last Pascal fight, nobody gave him a shot and he took a kid 20 years younger to school and I expect him to do it again in two weeks.
Damn, these are damn good points. Most people, including myself, think about the advantages they may offer in the ring which is why I think we don't take it too serious since they don't, but as far as how they affect training, stamina, etc. is a damn good point
When the fuck did this happen??!?!?! You mean Esteban DeJesus, Wilfred Benitez, Ray Leonard, Tommy Hearns and Marvin Hagler are worse than Mosley, huh? C'mon Zef, not in his prime dude. Had they been the same age, Manny never would have taken the fight. Mosley wouldn't have even been considered as an opponent.
Yeah. And Floyd like Manny, also hits you with punches you don't see coming, and his power is underrated. Manny loves to jump in with his entire body which creates a lot of momentum, momentum that would be added to any punches floyd lands while countering. I wouldn't be surprised if he puts Manny down hard, I also wouldn't be surpised if Floyd went down early either. Well, kinda surprised.
Floyd is a slow starter, and he's susceptible to getting caught early on. I wouldn't be surprised if he got rocked early on.
Yeah. And Floyd like Manny, also hits you with punches you don't see coming, and his power is underrated. Manny loves to jump in with his entire body which creates a lot of momentum, momentum that would be added to any punches floyd lands while countering. I wouldn't be surprised if he puts Manny down hard, I also wouldn't be surpised if Floyd went down early either. Well, kinda surprised.
true, but I was sitting there tonight wondering where the fuck did that Manny go?
Merc, haha, c'mon man. I know you know this. We'll just say it's late and you can't remember right now.
All I'm gonna say is Pat Lawlor ( a very corny hillybilly type white guy that actually ended up marrying a local in Panama) and Kirkland Laing, another bum.As far as Duran's prime, it's actually a little hard to pinpoint.
Mosley wasn't considered until after the Floyd fight and yes he was old as hell then.
This, I agree with. I also believe Mayweather would not have fought him either. That young Mosley might have been the king of 147 if the landscape were as it is now.
I remember the good old days when I said Floyd vs Manny would be the best challenge for each of them and people would say Floyd is a bitch for wanting to fight a smaller guy and that he needs to fight a real welter like Shane. I also remember when Shane was called the best welterweight. Now they are so 
cause he beat the brake off of Shane and isn't fighting Pac. 2-3 years has changed a lot.
cause he beat the brake off of Shane and isn't fighting Pac. 2-3 years has changed a lot.
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Merc, haha, c'mon man. I know you know this. We'll just say it's late and you can't remember right now.
As far as Duran's prime, it's actually a little hard to pinpoint.
True about Laing but damm LAWLOR?!?! duran was literally like 50 years old when he fought that dude - that was actually only TEN years ago!!!
Damn, these are damn good points. Most people, including myself, think about the advantages they may offer in the ring which is why I think we don't take it too serious since they don't, but as far as how they affect training, stamina, etc. is a damn good point
It's true man but boxing is a lot more than just training and stamina. Look at how much fat ass James Toney has been able to achieve even though we know he is old and on the decline now. You can only do so much exercise and after that, then what? You still have to know how to fight and have certain skill. I guarantee you the PEDs helped Fernando Vargas train like a motherfucker and the proof was in his body which looked amazing. That still didn't save his ass from getting knocked out and he actually looked stiff and robotic in spite of the chiseled body and supposedly superior conditioning.
True about Laing but damm LAWLOR?!?! duran was literally like 50 years old when he fought that dude - that was actually only TEN years ago!!!
haha, no man the Lawlor rematch was like ten years ago. They first fought actually almost 20 years ago and Lawlor beat him on some freak TKO. It was ridiculous, amazing, and hilarious.
I swear I don't remember that shit, but I was only 3 years old so....The early eighties were not kind to Roberto.
Before my girl wakes up and sees me on the computer arguing "that bullshit fight".
That's because he prefers to figure out his opponents during the fight, rather than study tape. Makes sense because watching a fight is completely different than actually being in the fight.
With that said, with Pac he'll need to be as prepared as he's ever been. Mayweather is fast, but Pac doesn't care. You hit him and he's trying to hit you right back. From what I've watched he tries to keep his neck stabilized so he doesn't have that "snap back" effect that can cause a fighter to get knocked silly. So Floyd won't have any effect IMO unless he has perfect timing.
He'll have to really outclass Pac because Pacquiao will be outpunching him. Mayweather will win by making Pacquiao look sloppy, not by knocking him down or knocking him out.
But with that said, Pacquiao is relentless and will keep coming forward. He doesn't have the one shot power as Mosley, but he can hit you with three shots where Mosley gets you with one.
I honestly cannot call the fight anymore.
Not true. Floyd was calling out Shane and Oscar for years and they didn't want to fight him, not because they were scared but because Floyd was still in the lower weight classes and nobody took him seriously.
Up until he beat Oscar Floyd was calling Shane out heavy but at the time Floyd didn't have the name he had after the DLH fight so Shane was in no rush to fight him.
I remember as far back as the early 2000's Floyd calling out Oscar nobody (including me) really took him serious at the time because he was at like 130-135 and Oscar was fighting at 154 to 160.
True but consider what it could do with someone like Pac ( who I'm not saying is or isn't on PED's, just using him as an example). If you already have blazing speed and work rate, and you can increase that exponentially before the fight, thats a definite advantage.
That won't work for everyone, but with someone like him it can help. It all depends on the skill set and what its being used for.
Vargas for example, used that shit to get bigger and stronger so it didn't help him. Boxing isn't about muscles and shit. Vargas never had that skill set in the first place, IMO he's just the Mexican equivalent of a Ricky Hatton. They used the huge Mexican following, his tough attitude and his style of fighting to sell him but he never really had that type of skill to be an elite, number one fighter and had a ceiling he would never break through because of it.
On a completely different note, for all those who dont think Manny's fight have been cherry picked something that has to be remembered that I haven't seen mentioned here in this thread is that all of Manny's post DLH fights have only been against Top Rank fighters with the exception of Ricky Hatton. You would be foolish to believe that Top Rank has all the best fighters at 147 and has put them against Manny.
Facts. Mosley is 40 years old. Fact, Mosley has no legs. He has no legs..... Yet somehow, clearly displayed enuff 'legs' to run away from the fight. Especially in the last 3 rounds. A 'fact' you choose to ignore.
Fact, Mosley threw about ten right hands the whole fight. Fact, Mosley was circling in the same direction the whole fight. Fact, Pac couldn't do shit with a 40 year old dude with no legs unless he was standing still. Mosley was throwing nothing in return even Pacquiao got close, it's not like Manny had to worry about all the bombs that were coming his way just to get in a shot.Mosely has (one-shot) KNOCKOUT power. And Manny respected that power, by not being too reckless. Another 'fact' you will probably ignore.
Also, I posted the Bizarro/Duran fight just to show you what it looked like when a dude was really RUNNING without offering ANY offense at all, but you missed that point. No, I got the point. Bizzaro had NO knockout power to speak of, so he had no choice BUT to run away. Shane has 'one-hitter-quitter' skills. Unlike Bizzaro. Any decent fighter won't rush in to get their 'chin checked'.
Shane was circling and making Manny miss. How does a guy with 'no legs' circle and make Manny miss? You must have been watching a different fight. I saw one man dominate as the 'aggressor' (by throwing punches). While the other fled.
Again, it's on Manny as this great destroyer who is supposedly the greatest fighter and better than Ali according to the media whores, to get to this old man with no legs who is supposedly running from and miraculously able to elude him. Again, is Shane supposed to stand there and let Manny hit him? Is he supposed to fight Manny's fight and play into Manny's hands, just so some Filipino's at the MGM won't boo him. Practically the WHOLE crowd booed him. It wasn't just Filipinos.
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/columns/story?columnist=rafael_dan&id=6503687
- "He is fast. Manny is fast. He is faster than anyone I have ever fought."
- "He has exceptional power, power that I have never been hit with before."
I'd rather believe the quotes of Shane Mosely himself, over your opinion.
Shane did what he felt he had to do. Manny is younger, faster, at this point, a more powerful fighter, so exactly what is his excuse for not being able to get to this 40 year old, trigger shy, completely shot fighter? I mean Bizarro had better legs than Shane and was RUNNING his ass off and Duran, who Manny would supposedly stop according to many idiots in the media (especially ESPN), was able to cut the ring off and destroy this dude. Bizzaro had NO knockout power.
SO YES, ANY GREAT BOXER IS GONNA RECKLESSLY CHASE A GUY LIKE THAT AROUND THE RING.
Is that too hard to understand???
Manny was only able to hurt Shane when Shane came to him. If I was Pac, I'd be embarrassed. Pac showed major flaws in his game and at this point it's clear to me that Sergio Martinez deserves Manny's spot as the p4p best in the world.
- "I should have been more aggressive... He had strong shots I had never felt before, so I had to watch out."
From the ESPN Video: 'Shane Mosely on Losing to Manny Pacquiao'
In the post-fight interviews, he admits he was running.
(Another 'fact' you will ignore.)
But it's ALL Manny's fault for not catching him, huh?
I'm done. I've posted enuff facts, videos & links to prove my point.
All you have done is post ONE video.. and provide your 'opinion'.
If Manny had knocked Shane out..... somehow, you prolly would still complain / nitpick.... at his performance.
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THAT FIGHT WAS FIXED!!!!
It looked like Shane was paid NOT to throw anything.
These fools touching gloves and giving each other props at the beginning and end of each round.
Something stinks here.
They definitely fought like it was already some type of agreement in place.
FYI, Shane does this glove touching thing with every fighter he respects... He's done it multiple times throughout his career. Reading all these posts there is one common theme... You guys are hilarious as you God Floyd is not giving you anything to crow about or to lean on since he obviously has not desire to or more than likely will every fight Manny or any other fighter which will create some intrigue. What he will do, and you idiots are too stupid to see it, is he will have these 'layoffs', do stupid shit here and there to try to keep his name relevant (i.e. fight ex girlfriends or beat up security guards
), then build up a 'return' by fighting a decent 'tuneup', make a few bucks off of you idiots, and then when it comes time to fight a real fighter he will make a whole lot of excuses and let you clowns wait by baited breath while he basically tells you and the rest of the boxing world to go fuck yourselves, because he's made enough money off of your asses to go trick off for a few until he needs his next fix.Pick apart Manny's performance all you want, and some of you are reaching like hell, but the reason a lot of the recent fights he's had have had fighters running and fighting out of character (Cotto, Clotty, Shane), has everything to do with the wood he was laying on them and the fear of what was coming back, and absolutely nothing to do with the fight being 'fixed'!!! You sheep ass niccas want SOOO much for your little Idol Floyd to come in and save the day, but ultimately you remind me of a Dude that wants a chick who doesn't want him, so after being dissed so much you start trying to pick him a part, especially when Floyd continues to lift you up, get your little juices flowing, only to let you down with another bullshit 'layoff'!
Regardless of your whining critique of Manny's performances, the bottom line is he is doing what fighters do, he fights, and doesn't sit on the sidelines playing games, acting a damn fool, and making an ass out of himself and his fans at every possible opportunity....
You guys are really pitiful.....
IMO it looked like Shane realized he was over matched or didn't have it anymore, and just wanted to survive 12 rounds. He wasn't trying to win. Winning for him was lasting.
And I don't believe Manny is the fastest fighter he's ever fought, I just think Shane has slowed down, so it's easier for him to get caught.
And I don't believe Manny is the fastest fighter he's ever fought, I just think Shane has slowed down, so it's easier for him to get caught.
What a joke boxing has become
Shane has been over the hill for a while now,yet he's marched in there like a viable opponentand people bought it.
Shane has been over the hill for a while now,yet he's marched in there like a viable opponent
and people bought it.
They don't want to hear that. The video of Shane pulling a serious duck of Floyd has been posted here many times. Again, you are talking to a cat who thinks Floyd called out Manny then pulled the "Olympic drug testing" move as a "smoke screen" because he didn't want box anymore...
Look anyone with sense understands like the baseball argument it won't give you the hand/eye coordination to hit a baseball, but it is possible that good player with that coordination can get on the shit, train harder and become stronger... to become a great home run hitter... Not that it will turn a bum into Superman.
At this point, anyone that doesn't see it is an idiot...
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