Official STAR WARS:THE FORCE AWAKENS discussion thread
- Thread starter ThaBurgerPimp
- Start date
This is where filmmakers FAIL. It isn't the audiences responsibility to read the novels for more information. If it hasn't happened on film, or wasn't mentioned on film, Colin Powell rules apply.
Fuck that expecting us to read all that shit. Write a better film and we wouldn't have to read all that shit to connect dots.
ok I get it - you guys need your movies spoon fed to you... in that case you are right about weak writing
Got-Dammit you know damn well 2nd, 3rd,4th outside of command etc was not the point. The point being I'm a bad-ass Apprentice of the Dark-Side and I will be respected and feared and for damn sure you're not gonna come at me any kinda damn way! Point-Blank-Period! DAMMMMIT!
If Kylo Ren was somehow weakened by killing his father as per some spiritual/force connection etc. Then they did one hell of a bad job explaining/portraying that.
A better job would have been after killing daddy he tried to do some Force related thing and struggled/couldn't do it. Leading him to ask "Whats happening? Why can't i do X,Y,Z?" Then realizing by killing my father I have weakened myself/my abilities!
NOW GOTDAMMIT as an audience member we would have gotten it CLEARLY and it would have eliminated the question of how Ren could have possibly defeated him!
No, I shouldn't have to rely heavily on other media in order to have plotholes filled when there is already a two hour plus movie I'm investing time in.
Write a better film, and the "companion novels" are not needed.
I'm just coming into this thread and have only read about 3 pages back, so don't attack if i say something that has been covered, please.
First off, there is some complaining about Rey getting his ass whooped by a chick who just picked up a saber. Well, erly on, they establish that Rey has combat training as she whoops ass with a staff early in the movie. Anyone with a background in Hapkido or Kali would argue that having a sword or sabeer would not prevent you from getting your ass whooped by them just because its a more dangerous weapon. The hand that wields it makes it dangerous. A skilled hapkido fighter could pick up a sword and fuck you up with it, even though their training is circled around using sticks and staffs. Same for a skilled Kali fighter. Using that principle, Rey was a trained fighter and was implementing her fighting skills in her fight with Kylo. It IS possible for her to whoop a little ass on an injured Sith apprentice (which is what he was). Supreme Leader Snoke ordered him back at the end to finish his training. What we saw was basically a noob Luke vs noob Luke battle. The next movie will show us a trained Rey vs a trained Kylo and the battle should be much more epic.
Anyone disagree that Finn is the new Han Solo? No? Okay....because they made that evident as fuck. I was disappointed at the misdirect, as well. I would have loved for Finn to be the son or grandson of Mace Windu. It could still happen. They could tie him to Mace or throw a curb ball and tie him to some odd Jedi. Finn could be Force-sensitive. Hell, we didn't know Leia was until movie #2. We may even see Leia use the force in the next movie. Who knows? They could flip the whole thing by movie 3 and have Rey, Finn, Leia and Kylo teaming up to defeat Snoke. There are many possibilities. I know I'm reaching with that one but I was just saying that to make the point that there is still room for surprises. I agree that the writing was lazy and very corporate formula "do-whats-already-worked" in nature.
Also, does anybody else think that Snoke might be the same species as the Cantina owner? I think dude is probably little like her and Yoda.
I read the theory of Jar Jar as a Sith Lord and laughed at first until it made sense. I think that was the angle Lucas was going to go for with his version of the new movies but since he wanted to be a billionaire, I guess we won't see that happen.
First off, there is some complaining about Rey getting his ass whooped by a chick who just picked up a saber. Well, erly on, they establish that Rey has combat training as she whoops ass with a staff early in the movie. Anyone with a background in Hapkido or Kali would argue that having a sword or sabeer would not prevent you from getting your ass whooped by them just because its a more dangerous weapon. The hand that wields it makes it dangerous. A skilled hapkido fighter could pick up a sword and fuck you up with it, even though their training is circled around using sticks and staffs. Same for a skilled Kali fighter. Using that principle, Rey was a trained fighter and was implementing her fighting skills in her fight with Kylo. It IS possible for her to whoop a little ass on an injured Sith apprentice (which is what he was). Supreme Leader Snoke ordered him back at the end to finish his training. What we saw was basically a noob Luke vs noob Luke battle. The next movie will show us a trained Rey vs a trained Kylo and the battle should be much more epic.
Anyone disagree that Finn is the new Han Solo? No? Okay....because they made that evident as fuck. I was disappointed at the misdirect, as well. I would have loved for Finn to be the son or grandson of Mace Windu. It could still happen. They could tie him to Mace or throw a curb ball and tie him to some odd Jedi. Finn could be Force-sensitive. Hell, we didn't know Leia was until movie #2. We may even see Leia use the force in the next movie. Who knows? They could flip the whole thing by movie 3 and have Rey, Finn, Leia and Kylo teaming up to defeat Snoke. There are many possibilities. I know I'm reaching with that one but I was just saying that to make the point that there is still room for surprises. I agree that the writing was lazy and very corporate formula "do-whats-already-worked" in nature.
Also, does anybody else think that Snoke might be the same species as the Cantina owner? I think dude is probably little like her and Yoda.
I read the theory of Jar Jar as a Sith Lord and laughed at first until it made sense. I think that was the angle Lucas was going to go for with his version of the new movies but since he wanted to be a billionaire, I guess we won't see that happen.
Sorry Buc, but when I looked at Finn, it was like he was Cuba in Jerry McGuire. Show me the force. Not bold enough for me, no screen presence. Not dynamic at all. Sorry
No, I wouldn't feel silly at all, because-
Why are we assuming that the title; "The Force Awakens" only applies to ONE character? It could refer to both Finn AND Rey, and possibly to other characters yet to be introduced. (and could also refer to the conflict within Kylo Ren). If Luke Somehow reestablishes the Jedi order (He and Rey are perhaps not-so-coincidentially at the first Jedi temple when the movie ends) maybe there will be many Jedi deciples/padawans/trainees/who are "awakened" and find their way here.
So maybe Finn isn't force sensitive:
- He shows no "obvious" use of the force
- He lost battles to both stormtroopers and Kylo Ren
- He already occupies the role of this trilogy's Han
- One doesn't need to be force sensitive to use lightsaber
- Cooler if a "regular" guy is the hero
and maybe he is:
- Has resisted stormtrooper brainwashing, and Kylo Ren seemed to pay particular attention to him when leaving that village...& when Ren is notified that a stormtrooper is helping Poe Dameron, Ren immediately knows which one.
- Seemed to successfully use every weapon he touched, blaster, TIE ship guns, Falcon guns, and yes lightsaber- even though he lost fights.
- Snoke talks about an awakening long before Rey has any "awakening"
- Maz gives Finn the lightsaber when she could have easily given it to Han, who she actually knows better
- When the Starkiller base (or whatever it is) is fired, Finn hears people screaming before any of the blasts land and with nobody around, something only force sensitive have done
- He survives a lightsaber battle with a dark force user, albeit one that is critically injured.
- SOMEBODY has to fight the knights of Ren!
but I would still love to see someone with a hybrid blaster/saber type weapon.
That was more in response to another poster- but I don't even think he's a weak character. Yes, he was a scrub on the battlefield, but it was because he didn't have experience (imo). Seems like everyone expected him to kick all kinds of ass, and since he didn't folks are saying he's a pussy. I think his character arc is the one with the most potential. He could:
Hang out with Poe Dameron. Stormtroopers are taught to fly TIE fighters, so he could potentially learn to be an X-wing pilot-
Take over the Falcon and roll with Chewbacca -
Train as a Jedi under Skywalker
we will see.
They know they did a piss poor job explaining the end. Thats why they decided to release the script details. Fans telling you that it was properly portrayed during the movie are just taking the criticism personally.
Well, they shouldn't have to explain a lot. You can infer that the Force was guiding her moreso than she having some great ability. Also, other characters have shown to have great ability with little training (Luke). Kylo was mortally wounded and was not trying to kill Rey.(Snoke says bring her to me. Kylo offers to train her.) It was obvious that he was toying with Finn until Finn got that lick in.
The entire movie was pretty simple in that regards and didn't need that much explaining. I mean come on.. It a movie about fucking magic, and it sticks to the rules within the movie.
Yet, when you read posts and a few articles you would think there are a lot of complaints about the movie, but those are few and far between. The naysayers just speak the loudest.
Yeah he was really trying to capture her and getting his ass-whopped was all part of the master plan! Ya'll kill me similar to:
Yeah he was really trying to capture her and getting his ass-whopped was all part of the master plan! Ya'll kill me similar to:
Critic Review:
This is a prime example of a modern movie with stunning visuals but lame writing ...not a bad way to kill a few hours whilst stuffing your face with popcorn and playing with your phone but overhaul the story had to many stupid moments that you'd have to be utterly mindless to forgive.
There's also nothing new here and the dark side are making the same stupid mistakes they were making 30 years ago. It's almost like a remake or homage to the original films.
The two main good characters are awfully skilled in lightsaber fighting and/or using the force considering they didn't even have a clue twenty minutes earlier and had no training in either. The main bad guy despite having training from the dark side appears average against the two nobody's who suddenly have discovered their remarkable skill.
Eye candy not brain candy. It's mindless fun but too mindless...more brain dead...leaving the intelligent member's of the audience thinking, what?
The movie is pretty straight forward. I'm specifically referring to the end. The fact that killing his father removed his powers was pretty big deal in regards to the storyline. It's really the only way the end makes any sense. I'm somewhat of a hard core fan so of course I'm being criitical. But like I said it was a solid movie.
Where they REALLY fucked up was the scene where Kylo force froze a blaster shot in mid air. Thats an unprecedented ability of force control which would suggest that he's an exceptional force adept..So when he confronts finn and rey even injured he should be more than a match yet finn was able to strike him and rey suddenly goes super saiyan.
in the middle of the flick we learn that he left luke still a padawan of sorts and is still learning from snoke which means what exactly in terms of his ability and power in the force?
like I said earlier... they are starting Rey off REALLY HIGH. She has gifted force abilities and was able to use the Jedi mind trick. She bested a trained force adept in her first dual and used force telekinesis to draw a light-saber away from him. Luke on the other hand had trouble using force techniques even when trained by Yoda. And granted Kylo Ren was injured at this point but they start him off pretty high as well as I mentioned with the Force Freeze, which is something that's unprecedented as far as I know from the saga (I haven't read the expanded universe books) So that means even at half speed he should have been kicking her ass all over that forest. So either Ren is super soft or Rey is a fucking Super Saiyan Jedi.
I didn't have a problem with her being a force adept and fighting well. We see that she can handle herself earlier in the flick but I DID have a problem with her doing a Jedi mindtrick without knowing what the hell that is. No one told her that was even possible considering she thought Luke and the Force was a myth.
The way they set her up I don't see much tension in her battles with Ren in the future episodes. It will be interesting to see how other directors play that out.
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^^^Bravo! It's already bad enough with the fighting stuff. But she was able to kick Ren's ass in the Jedi mind stuff as well. Did you see how she resisted AND reversed it on him and read his mind etc? LOL!!!
He stood there powerless/defeated by someone with 5 minutes of discovering I would even call it training.
Bruh, they showed us this:
And this:
And this:
And this:
And this:
Apparently it's my fault thinking we were going to get this:
and this:
or this:
They marketed Finn to People of Color a certain way, but it's my fault for thinking Finn would be much more than what he was..... I wish they treated his character with more dignity, instead of doing what they did. Cats will fall on their swords (lightsabers) defending the character/film, but I'll still stand by the fact they made that dude drink pig water and get saved in damn near every fight he was in.
Hoping they do him some justice come Episode 8.
dude youre talking the FIRST movie of a trilogy thats being in done in chronological order....this sets up things that SHOULD be answered in the later two films..we don't know YET what Finn's fate is he MAY BE a force adept to some degree or MAYBE just MAYBE using a lightsaber in that universe is like using a sword in in our reality.
If you HAD to fight with a broad sword right now I'm sure you can do some very basic thrusts and blocks. Which is what Finn was doing. You guys have gotten too caught up in the EU and all this other shit that has nothing to do with THIS movie.
WHO THE FUCK SAID ONLY A JEDI CAN USE OR HANDLE A LIGHTSABER??
we saw han turn on luke's and cut open a tauntaun....does that mean he's a jedi???
It's fucking Star Wars. It is a pretty simplistic overall story.
As I said, the naysayers are few and far between compared to those who appreciate the movie.
I am not saying I don't have complaints about the film, but then I have complaints about every film.
Yeah he was really trying to capture her and getting his ass-whopped was all part of the master plan! Ya'll kill me similar to:
It is right in the movie. He wasn't trying to kill her just as Vader wasn't trying to kill Luke. Snoke tells him to bring her to him. He didn't expect for her to best him. He was also mortally wounded. It is pretty obvious especially if you listen to the dialogue.
Secondly, ...Rotten tomatoes has about 299 fresh and 21 rotten. Even Ben Mankoweicz loved the movie and he doesn't like a lot of movies, and thinks it is the seond best behind ESB.
So, of course you are going to find some naysayers. I could say the same thing about the lack of originality etc, but I sat back and enjoyed the hell out of the movie. The more I see it, the more I enjoy it. It is just like MOS which you are always praising and rationalizing why it is a good film. I for one enjoy it and like it more after I have seen it about five times. I initially was iffy about it. I didn't hate it, but I didn't love it either but now I like it a lot.
There are many things that I could find wrong with TFA. I could harp on her become proficient at using the Force in such a short time, but then what am I watching. I am watching a fucking movie about magic, good vs evil, with fucking all types of creatures breathing the same air without a respirator. None of it makes any sense if I am looking at it from my vantage point. I just chalk it up to the Force using her. Also, it wasn't as if she were adept at fighting. She survived on a planet by herself for how many years.
The point i am trying to make is to stop being a sour ass and sit back and enjoy the movie. In itself, it doesn't violate its own laws so fuck it. Just go with it
They didn't show Han holding lightsabers in posters. They didn't sell Han as a Jedi like character fighting with lightsabers in hand.dude youre talking the FIRST movie of a trilogy thats being in done in chronological order....this sets up things that SHOULD be answered in the later two films..we don't know YET what Finn's fate is he MAY BE a force adept to some degree or MAYBE just MAYBE using a lightsaber in that universe is like using a sword in in our reality.
If you HAD to fight with a broad sword right now I'm sure you can do some very basic thrusts and blocks. Which is what Finn was doing. You guys have gotten too caught up in the EU and all this other shit that has nothing to do with THIS movie.
WHO THE FUCK SAID ONLY A JEDI CAN USE OR HANDLE A LIGHTSABER??
we saw han turn on luke's and cut open a tauntaun....does that mean he's a jedi???
And that scene was in the second movie of the first trilogy, not the first film in a new trilogy. Han was already established.
Lastly, I didn't say only Force users can use lightsabers either. General Grevious was an example of one who used lightsabers but wasn't a Force user.
Try again.
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Blasphemy against you fine sir using MoS in your post! Anyway, Relax I'm good with the movie really as I mentioned in my first post after the initial viewing. The amount of power this young girl posses took me aback and as I understand the current movie and what has been explained(not gotdammit "supposedly" inferred by the writers) to us I don't think it's appropriate. It puts them in a very tricky writing position for both her and Rens character going forward. Honestly, from where she stands today it doesn't seem like she needs that much training to become a full fledge Jedi and as for Ren that sorry-ass he needs alot more training. In the next installment you would assume they're going to be evenly match? If not what's the point? If so, then i say get the Fuck outta here! Not with those diabolical starting places even with his few years head-start!
Like everyone else i'm excited to see Rogue One, VIII and the others.
Interestingly I never got into Boyega's role for the movie. You know the funny clown black man that makes jokes all the time. Fuck that too..Ol boy is a stage actor in the likes of Idris, Chiwetel, Lenny and the likes. Though I haven't seen enough of him as an actor I going to take a leap and say he's way better than "funny-black-man" Chris Tucker, Kevin Hart etc. Tired of seeing that minitive role for black actors.
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So mad over the posters. The movie was good. you're nitpicking isn't even good for most of what you're complaining about. You got caught up wanting Finn to be a Jedi, he isn't. He was a fun character and vital to the story as well as being the one who has the most progression as far as character. I liked the movie. The first order isn't going to be the empire because this is the power gap left after the fall of the empire. There is no logical way they should be as strong as the empire. It's like when any regime falls the power vacuum isn't filled by someone just as strong. It's a lot of folks scrapping with the leftovers of before.
If you are a fan you should have some idea of how crazy it would and could be after that honestly and been paying some attention to the things laid out prior to the movie. Don't have to be versed in all of the other media but vaguely aware of the state of the galaxy. If you aren't a fan then it doesn't really matter because all of the basic elements are there for you already. Villain, father v son struggle. Destiny vs determination. The Who am I question. Some of you seem to want every single thing already spelled out but what about your imagination, and fan theories which are what made the star wars universe special to begin with.
If you are a fan you should have some idea of how crazy it would and could be after that honestly and been paying some attention to the things laid out prior to the movie. Don't have to be versed in all of the other media but vaguely aware of the state of the galaxy. If you aren't a fan then it doesn't really matter because all of the basic elements are there for you already. Villain, father v son struggle. Destiny vs determination. The Who am I question. Some of you seem to want every single thing already spelled out but what about your imagination, and fan theories which are what made the star wars universe special to begin with.
Critics took it easy on JJ. If Lucas' name was attached to this film as director, he would have been panned for recycling the same story....yet JJ not only gets a pass but he's praised. Unreal.
its called a tease and again..we don't KNOW what finn will become because its just the FIRST movie.. you really suck at trolling
What they did, regarding Finn and the lightsaber in the posters and trailers, was not a tease, it was a complete misdirection. Again, they baited People of Color and sold a Black lightsaber fighting character only to marginalize that character in the film.its called a tease and again..we don't KNOW what finn will become because its just the FIRST movie.. you really suck at trolling
Yes, we don't know where Finn is going in the sequel. We do know where Rey is heading, and it seems like she's leaving Finn in the dust as far as character development.
As far as trolling, I'm not, its a back and forth. You really suck at that.
I disagree, you're excusing bad writing for viewers not using their imagination? For using the exact same ship designs, and death star ideas, really? The millinium falcon i understand, but they literally used the exact same designs for everything.
The visuals i agree were fantastic for the most part, but thats about where the positives for the movie end. As much as the star wars dialogue has always been a a bit lacking it usually made up for it with their interesting Villain choice, they greatly dropped the ball here, started great with his opening scene in stopping the laser beam, and went down hill from there, he nor snook carried the great screen presence that Vader, the emperor, or even the silent Darth mol did. Even the military generals were lacking, i felt the least amount of genuine villainy from any of them.
The acting outside Finn Ray, Poe also was piss poor, how stiff and forced did the relationship between Han Solo and Leah seem?? They severely lacked the chemistry they retained 30 years ago. And how do you waste the talent of Lupita on a character like that, i had no idea it was even her, how flat and card boarded her character felt like, if they were going to design her as an alien they should have done something more similar to how they did the female main character in Avatar, a total fucking waste.
I am taking it light. I admit, I am partial to SW.
If you forget that Kylo was mortally wounded by Chewy and he wasn't trying to kill Rey then things work out. He offers to train her and Snoke tells him to bring her to him. Given that then they are not painting themselves in a corner. Also, Han Solo was kiling multiple troopers with one shot then we can assume that a straight blow to the gut is not a good thing. A better question to ask is why didn't he die when he got shot unless he has some type of armour that is stronger than the stormtroopers.
I don't have a problem with Finn's character.
IMO, Not trying to kill her is like when he tossed Finn into the tree. That shows I have the power to overwhelm you anytime I want. Maybe it's just me but at no point in their fight could you honestly say, "Ren is just toying with her and can easily best her!" If anything they kinda showed she was already more powerful than him when she best him during the interrogation scene when she flipped his own mind probe against his ass.
Lets explore the above further: You're a big bad ass Force user on the ship. Your mother is Darth Vader daughter, Your uncle and likely 1st teacher is Luke-DAMN-Skywalker and now your under the tutelage of the Dark Ugly. Anytime you use the mind probe people have succumbed to it telling you or rather showing you what you want. Now, likely for the 1st time(outside of your teachers) some nobody, girl from what you know with no kinda training, who up to 5 minutes ago thought the Force stuff was a myth turns your mind probe against you. You could see he was trying his hardest--employing everything likely his momma and uncle and Dark Ugly has taught him.
MassaQ, Now you're trying to tell me couple that with a now wounded and perhaps "weakened" Ren (I use the term "weakened" loosely here because he was able to throw Finn pretty good up that tree) he's going to PLAY fight this girl? That just kicked his ass with one of the most ADVANCED force powers apparently she just happen to pickup and master a minute ago?
Come on Bruh!
if you blatantly ripoff Hitchcock, Leone, Ford, DeMille, Kurosawa, Capra etc and critics suck your dick
why do you think Tarrantino and a bunch of others have careers?
JJ rehashed Lucas with the flavor of Spielburg of course the critics have a love fest
What they did, regarding Finn and the lightsaber in the posters and trailers, was not a tease, it was a complete misdirection. Again, they baited People of Color and sold a Black lightsaber fighting character only to marginalize that character in the film.
Yes, we don't know where Finn is going in the sequel. We do know where Rey is heading, and it seems like she's leaving Finn in the dust as far as character development.
As far as trolling, I'm not, its a back and forth. You really suck at that.
first stop acting like finn is the first black man to wield a lightsaber
2nd..his character isn't marginalized at all so thats a complete falsehood
3rd.. if this is back and forth its a joke because all your points are easily debunked
1st. Unsure how you came to the conclusion that I believe that he's the first black man to wield a lightsaber. Please show me where I posted that. Please show me Phantom Menace posters of Mace Windu doing this.first stop acting like finn is the first black man to wield a lightsaber
2nd..his character isn't marginalized at all so thats a complete falsehood
3rd.. if this is back and forth its a joke because all your points are easily debunked
2nd..His character was marketed as a badass, but he immediately was put I the friend zone, had to be saved in EVERY fight he was in, drank pig water, made into Comic relief, was a sanitation worker and ended the movie in a coma, on his back.
3rd..this is a joke because your points have no solid ground, as I have answered each one. Finn was marketed very differently than what we ended up getting. No other character in Star Wars has never been marketed this way.
Try again.
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I can't wait till Finn comes back in Esp8 and has all types of force powers and his own light saber.
And as far as Finn's importance to the new trilogy story, think about how easy the sequels could move on without his character.
Episode 8 would be impossible to pull off without Rey. Finn, not so much. Dudes story could have been done at the end of the film, if Boyega chose to not do the sequels. So miss me with that "we don't know what the sequels have planned" stuff. Episode 7 showed me enough.
Episode 8 would be impossible to pull off without Rey. Finn, not so much. Dudes story could have been done at the end of the film, if Boyega chose to not do the sequels. So miss me with that "we don't know what the sequels have planned" stuff. Episode 7 showed me enough.
I've already answered those points and now your just repeating yourself..
Show me where I thought Mace was the only brother to wield a lightsaber.
Show me another character that was marketed like Finn, only to have filmmakers do a bait and switch.
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