Official STAR WARS:THE FORCE AWAKENS discussion thread

[snark9]

the problem with that movie is that the original trilogy
allowed for each character at one time or another to be engines to move the plot along.
they each had a role to play that was equally impactful to the story.
this 'rey-centered' approach made the rest of the cast seem like they were just 'extra' and superfluous.

 

[futureshock]

the problem with that movie is that the original trilogy
allowed for each character at one time or another to be engines to move the plot along.
they each had a role to play that was equally impactful to the story.
this 'rey-centered' approach made the rest of the cast seem like they were just 'extra' and superfluous.

 

[4 Dimensional]

Ren is a bitch. I hope he dies off and gets replace by Dwayne Johnson or some shit.

This movie is my least favorite in the franchise. The stormtroopers were too serious. I've grown use to the cartoonish troopers that were beyond pitiful at times. Not enough of them in this on. Way too much Ren. Rey and Finn got jungle fever.

I think the most disappoint aspect of the movie was lack of creativity. It was truly episode 4 all over again. Prequals were way better. Unlike some, I thought episodes 1, 2, and 3 were great and fun.

 

[4 Dimensional]

The good - most of the movie & plot. The bad - Harrison Ford actually has wigs worse than Donald Trump. I didn't think that was possible. The ugly - the horrid, unbelievable acting of General Hux. And the repetitive - yet ANOTHER Death Star. No spoilers.

Let's start with the ugly. If you are six foot, 160 pounds soaking wet then you've got to be convincing as a tough guy - he was not. Its not that he is a horrible actor, he just wasn't convincing in the role he played. He reminded me of a sniveling coward who most of us have seen as a boss or supervisor in our day jobs and they should not be. Between him and Kylo Ren (mask off) I'd say they tried to Jar-Jar Binks the movie. Luckily, they weren't in the movie for an extended period to ruin it as Jar-Jar did Episode 1.

Kylo Ren with mask - good, and believable, however, I thought he inspired pity more than fear from his tantrums, but at least he different from Darth Vader in that fashion, well I thought he surpassed Darth Vader's power. He was childish and petulant, yet believable - but he ruined it with his face, I have to say. His face didn't fit the part. Without the mask, remember the show Friends ("So no one told you life was going to be this way..." No? "We were on a break!" No? Screw it. Hulu it. It's funny). Anyway, Kylo Ren looks like he could have been Ross Geller's (David Schwimmer's) son. With the mask he was tough with it - I SAID DON'T MOVE WOMAN! - yet without the mask he couldn't sell water to a thirsty man in the desert.

The repetitive. Okay...prepare yourself for...yet another...attempt at...A Death Star. The first was Mercury. The second was Earth. Now this one will be Jupiter, each complete with a secret exploitable point that everyone knows about. Lame and lazy writing. If they are going with the super duper planetbuster go full Unicron. Why not a huge floating ship like in The Avengers - no. They go with the seen it, done it, let's do it again...wait...we already did it again? Grab Sidney Poitier and Bill Cosby, wait, not Cosby - The Staple Singers and Let's Do It Again.

The repetitive part deux: because I watched 4,5, & 6 between Thursday and Saturday, parts of the plot looked like I'd seen it before...Because I had. I feel that Hollywood dreads stepping out on something that has not been successful before so they rinse wash repeat movie plots. Supreme Leader Snoke doing the same puppeteer act with Kylo Ren that the Emperor did with Vader was Hollywood fear to step out on the new just a little bit. Give me a leader, not another spineless puppet - with this puppet having a little less spine. My story should not so closely mirror the life and times of my grandfather who lived 90 years before me, should it?

The repetitive part Tres: using the Droid as a genie in a bottle yet again. First, "Help me Obi Wan Kenobi..." Now this. Okay, there's more, but let me get to the good. I don't want to make you think I'm bashing the movie because I'm not. I liked it.

Daisy Ridley (Rey), John Boyega (Finn), and Oscar Isaac (Poe), were excellent in their roles and very believable in their acting. All looked very seasoned considering I have seen little of their work in the past. Oh how I feared another Hayden Christensen, for whom the Razzie should be permanently named, that I critique these three and found little flaw. So great casting. Their characters' aim and direction was evident and plausible. They wanted to get away, or get away and get back to (not gonna tell you), or just do what they do best.

The action, acting, fight scenes were visibly fantastic. The ambiguity of Rey's character bothered me a tiny bit because I thought that they were going to do what they did with Luke and Leia, so the fact that they went vague leaves hope that they didn't just rehash yet another storyline. Also, excellent use of The Force to hold people at bay. I liked that part. And using The Force to freeze the laser beam mid-air... Classic. And Maz, she was my favorite character in the entire movie say. Wonderfully played.

Last but not least, Han Solo's wig from the Trump Collection or at least Dolly Parton. Han Solo is still Han Solo with hair or not. We didn't need him with the same hairdo from Episode 4,5, & 6 only grayer. Even Leia changes her hair and we still recognized her. If Harrison Ford is bald, then he'd still be Han Solo.

Overall, I liked the movie, and believe even Star Wars heads will enjoy it. I tried not to predict the predictable parts, and one part definitely caught me off guard. I did not see that...at all. A little bit of bad is one character got very powerful very fast, which seemed a bit forced and not unlike Luke Skywalker in Episode 5, but at least he teained with Yoda for a while. By all means, go see it. It earned 8 of 10. I'll say it again next week to see if I missed anything but I think the 8 will hold. It was better than the prequels by far, but I rank it ahead of Return of the Jedi as the third best Star Wars movie

I agree with everything you said except it was better than the prequels. FA is easily the worse in the franchise. At least give the prequels the benefit of doubt that it didn't copy and paste the script.

 

["THE MAN"]

Ren is a bitch. I hope he dies off and gets replace by Dwayne Johnson or some shit.

This movie is my least favorite in the franchise. The stormtroopers were too serious. I've grown use to the cartoonish troopers that were beyond pitiful at times. Not enough of them in this on. Way too much Ren. Rey and Finn got jungle fever.

I think the most disappoint aspect of the movie was lack of creativity. It was truly episode 4 all over again. Prequals were way better. Unlike some, I thought episodes 1, 2, and 3 were great and fun.

Stormtroopers too serious? For real.

 

[4 Dimensional]

Stormtroopers too serious? For real.

Yes.

 

["THE MAN"]

Yes.

They should have never been goofy I feel. They are the troops for the damn government yet shoot like its G.I. Joe. But hey we all look at things different.

 

[4 Dimensional]

They should have never been goofy I feel. They are the troops for the damn government yet shoot like its G.I. Joe. But hey we all look at things different.

I agree. They should have never been goofy, but at the same time I think that is what made Vadar look even more powerful. It was a nice comic relief in the films. I actually loved the fact they couldn't hit shit in 4, 5, and 6. I think the "extra" character roles fit the troopers perfectly. Like they picked them up off the street or some shit, lol.

 

[TheAlias]

I think the most disappoint aspect of the movie was lack of creativity. It was truly episode 4 all over again. Prequals were way better. Unlike some, I thought episodes 1, 2, and 3 were great and fun.

I actually like the prequels, especially episode I. Unpopular opinion but fuck it. Plus John Williams was wayy more ambitious in his scoring of the prequels than he was for Ep. VII

 

[4 Dimensional]

I actually like the prequels, especially episode I. Unpopular opinion but fuck it. Plus John Williams was wayy more ambitious in his scoring of the prequels than he was for Ep. VII

Hey man, you're like the only other kat I know that ever really gave episode I props. That shit was a dope movie (my personal favorite after Episode V). And I totally agree with John Williamson scoring.

He may have been able to reshape how this film flow if he improved his scoring. And to be honest, now that you mentioned it, episode VII could have been much better if the scoring was on point. The First Order did not really have that stand off theme like the Empire.

 

[4 Dimensional]

Damn, Ron got me thinking about the soundtrack now. John Williams really defaulted to sub-par producing.

These are distinct tracks from the previous films that really gave a "Star Wars" feel, imo.

 

[ron_mexico]

I actually like the prequels, especially episode I. Unpopular opinion but fuck it. Plus John Williams was wayy more ambitious in his scoring of the prequels than he was for Ep. VII

The Darth Maul vs the Jedis fight and the battle between Obi Wan and Annikan...those tracks give me chills...

I didn't hate the 1st two prequels, didn't love them. But I love episode 3. By far the most entertaining light saber duel.

 

[TheAlias]

Hey man, you're like the only other kat I know that ever really gave episode I props. That shit was a dope movie (my personal favorite after Episode V). And I totally agree with John Williamson scoring.

He may have been able to reshape how this film flow if he improved his scoring. And to be honest, now that you mentioned it, episode VII could have been much better if the scoring was on point. The First Order did not really have that stand off theme like the Empire.

Agree 100%

When I first saw EP I in the theater, I was blown away by the Coruscant scenes. People talk about George Lucas, but dude is a visionary. He was finally able to show it as he imagined it back when he wrote the original story.

Half of my excitement for Ep VII was knowing that Williams did new music for it. Nothing stood out to me. But if you haven't already, I would seek out the music of Episode II. A lot of his scoring in the film was never released for purchase so some have downloaded and eliminated the dialogue. Some very foreboding stuff.

TFA the movie was meh for me. Just simply too much hype, but the screen I viewed it on was crap. No IMAX, no RPX, no nothing. I couldn't immerse myself into the film.

 

[ron_mexico]

The Jedi Temple march was dope too.


But i love this track..

 

[4 Dimensional]

Agree 100%

When I first saw EP I in the theater, I was blown away by the Coruscant scenes. People talk about George Lucas, but dude is a visionary. He was finally able to show it as he imagined it back when he wrote the original story.

Half of my excitement for Ep VII was knowing that Williams did new music for it. Nothing stood out to me. But if you haven't already, I would seek out the music of Episode II. A lot of his scoring in the film was never released for purchase so some have downloaded and eliminated the dialogue. Some very foreboding stuff.

TFA the movie was meh for me. Just simply too much hype, but the screen I viewed it on was crap. No IMAX, no RPX, no nothing. I couldn't immerse myself into the film.

Episode II has some really good tracks. I have one score, but I'll check out what you are talking about.

I watched it last night on a 65 inch on Blu-ray . I was in it. I don't think the movie is awful, it just didn't do it for me. Oh yeah, Ren is a bitch.

 

[TheAlias]

Damn, Ron got me thinking about the soundtrack now. John Williams really defaulted to sub-par producing.

These are distinct tracks from the previous films that really gave a "Star Wars" feel, imo.

These are a few my faves.

The ultimate edition of Ep 1 is the music as heard in film. These are a few tracks that truly had me floating

 

[4 Dimensional]

These are a few my faves.

The ultimate edition of Ep 1 is the music as heard in film. These are a few tracks that truly had me floating

Ok, I'll have the get the ultimate edition albums, because I remember the tracks from the film, but a couple of those where not on the original soundtrack release.

 

[Darth Furious]

Just watched it again......Han's reaction to Finn saying that was filled with disappointment.

Yeah but now Im wondering if he misunderstood Finn just like the rest of us did. When I rewatch the movie, it makes total sense now.

Cleanse.

Sanitize.

Like flamethrowing a village and shooting everybody down to death.

He literally couldn't do the very thing he was trained to do.


oNE

 

[TheAlias]

Ok, I'll have the get the ultimate edition albums, because I remember the tracks from the film, but a couple of those where not on the original soundtrack release.

You won't be disappointed. The original trilogy has every note from the movie on the soundtrack so no problem there. But unfortunately, of the prequels, Ep I is the only one where every note is available for purchase. If they did an ultimate edition of Ep II and Ep III, I'm buying on the spot.

 

[geechiedan]

the problem with that movie is that the original trilogy
allowed for each character at one time or another to be engines to move the plot along.
they each had a role to play that was equally impactful to the story.
this 'rey-centered' approach made the rest of the cast seem like they were just 'extra' and superfluous.

Well the OT had 3 main characters all of them connected. When A New Hope starts off we see Vader and Leia, then we go to Luke, then back to Leia, then Luke again, some stuff with Vader and back to Leia and so it goes. Thats it. We see the same pattern in The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. All the major points of all the films deal with a Skywalker.

In this movie the characters aren't introduced in such a way..We have rey, finn and poe and ren. Because abrams didn't see poe as a main character until late in the story he's gone for much of it so the story trades off between rey and finn and ren. But becuz rey and finn hook up kinda early and are together for most of the film what happens to one happens to the other so it throws that balance off of going from one to the other to the next one..

Also rey is not a damsel in distress the way leia was. When luke and han go to save her she was waiting in a cell. When finn goes to save rey she was actively trying to save herself..remember they ran across her as she was climbing down a level in the complex...she wasn't waiting for shit

So the physical balance of the story was thrown off a bit because there was no true 3rd subplot to throw to..In ANH Luke had the hero's journey, Leia had the rebellion and Vader had straight villainy. In TFA rey has the hero's journey, finn has the resistance?? (kinda maybe) then poe shows up literally in the last 20 minutes with the resistance angle and ren has straight villainy.

IMO abrams kinda fucked up the balance not knowing what to do with poe and putting rey and finn together for the most part.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

i fucks with ren.

 

[godofwine]

I agree with everything you said except it was better than the prequels. FA is easily the worse in the franchise. At least give the prequels the benefit of doubt that it didn't copy and paste the script.

The one thing I hate about sequels as they often have two similar, and all too often the same plot or script. It's not enough to have the same cast, but you have to have and identical plot and script as well?

Some sequels evolved, off the top of my head Lethal Weapon. But what I see far too much is a film trying to recreate lightning in a bottle with very similar ingredients and falling short rather than taking those similar ingredients and creating a new meal. A popular side character coming back for the sequel unnecessarily ( Mike Tyson -The Hangover, Jim's dad -American Pie, )and on and on.

 

[4 Dimensional]

i fucks with ren.

Convince me, mayne, because dude comes off as a punks ass rebellious white boy that lost it because he couldn't live up to his parents expectations our wasn't good enough, so he went to the darkside.

I don't know enough of his back story to properly assess, but from what I got from the film he was what I described.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

Convince me, mayne, because dude comes off as a punks ass rebellious white boy that lost it because he couldn't live up to his parents expectations our wasn't good enough, so he went to the darkside.

I don't know enough of his back story to properly assess, but from what I got from the film he was what I described.

All I know is from the Film. It looked to me like he wasn't necessarily rebellious. He was like any kid, needing a father figure. His parents gave him up so he found a new dad. The worst dad you could ever want a kid to follow. His dad is BOUT IT. When he was praying to the Vader mask i got chills. He wants it. He wants to be BOUT IT. He's struggling though cause he has to grow up but it's coming. If they do it right, he's going to be like how Marlo was on the wire. You thought Avon was something. (Vader) this 2.0 cac right here is capable of some TERRIBLE things.

Him killing his father confirmed it for me. Straight murdered him. Wasn't no family reunion. Wasn't know, I'm only over here because you didn't love me but not you're back so we can be a family again. It was too late dad, I'm glad you came though because now I can prove to my real father that I'm down for the cause.

Loved Ren. Rooting for him in the next film

 

[4 Dimensional]

All I know is from the Film. It looked to me like he wasn't necessarily rebellious. He was like any kid, needing a father figure. His parents gave him up so he found a new dad. The worst dad you could ever want a kid to follow. His dad is BOUT IT. When he was praying to the Vader mask i got chills. He wants it. He wants to be BOUT IT. He's struggling though cause he has to grow up but it's coming. If they do it right, he's going to be like how Marlo was on the wire. You thought Avon was something. (Vader) this 2.0 cac right here is capable of some TERRIBLE things.

Him killing his father confirmed it for me. Straight murdered him. Wasn't no family reunion. Wasn't know, I'm only over here because you didn't love me but not you're back so we can be a family again. It was too late dad, I'm glad you came though because now I can prove to my real father that I'm down for the cause.

Loved Ren. Rooting for him in the next film

Ok, I see your point. He's still a bitch to me though. I guess it's the dude that actually plays him. But that's irrelevant to the story.

Maybe I will be more convinced in Episode VIII, to see if he is really BOUT IT BOUT IT or just BOUT IT.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

Ok, I see your point. He's still a bitch to me though. I guess it's the dude that actually plays him. But that's irrelevant to the story.

Maybe I will be more convinced in Episode VIII, to see if he is really BOUT IT BOUT IT or just BOUT IT.

It was their intros man. He couldn't be operating at 100 right now. Everybody trying to find their way just like he was.
Fin was out for self and discovered he was capable of something bigger than himself
Ol girl found out her Jedi ancestry and is about to get taught by Luke himself
So Ren has to start from somewhere too
This is his STARTING point. If you START off by building a planet with the distinct purpose of destroying other planets and you murder your father who was trying to make peace with you then think about where he might end up by the time they're done.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

This is his introduction lol
Hey yall. My daddy had the death star. That's cool and I'm gonna let you finish but I got an entire planet that's dedicated to harvesting the energy of the fucking sun to shoot a beam out to your house and kill your whole entire planet in 1 shot.
Oh shit daddy where you been? Yea, that's a nice explanation and all but im bout to kill you.

 

[4 Dimensional]

This is his introduction lol
Hey yall. My daddy had the death star. That's cool and I'm gonna let you finish but I got an entire planet that's dedicated to harvesting the energy of the fucking sun to shoot a beam out to your house and kill your whole entire planet in 1 shot.
Oh shit daddy where you been? Yea, that's a nice explanation and all but im bout to kill you.

Lol! Imma watch it again from your perspective and see how that works. I guess I was in too serious mode last night. Imma tone is back some.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

Lol! Imma watch it again from your perspective and see how that works. I guess I was in too serious mode last night. Imma tone is back some.

Yea man i was in the movies and i was loving every minute of Ren. i love to see complex tortured people. Villains need to be layered. Being bad isn't about being bad. Something shaped you that way most times. There are rare psychopaths but in those cases you have to be -1000000 fucks given level psycho to pull it off.

Ren started off at 0 fucks given but he's beating himself up during the movie because he always seems to find 1 fuck and he know his daddy Vader had 0. You can see the conflict like FUCK why do I keep finding this 1 fuck???

When she used her powers and it shook him... that's the 1 fuck he's trying to get rid of.
He's not there yet but just think of all the sick shit he did in this movie while having 1 fuck left lol
Wait till he gets to 0

 

[4 Dimensional]

Yea man i was in the movies and i was loving every minute of Ren. i love to see complex tortured people. Villains need to be layered. Being bad isn't about being bad. Something shaped you that way most times. There are rare psychopaths but in those cases you have to be -1000000 fucks given level psycho to pull it off.

Ren started off at 0 fucks given but he's beating himself up during the movie because he always seems to find 1 fuck and he know his daddy Vader had 0. You can see the conflict like FUCK why do I keep finding this 1 fuck???

When she used her powers and it shook him... that's the 1 fuck he's trying to get rid of.
He's not there yet but just think of all the sick shit he did in this movie while having 1 fuck left lol
Wait till he gets to 0

LMAOOO, Ok you convinced me Ren is not such a bitch. That makes sense, tho.

Yo, this shit is funny as hell now that you got me thinking about it. Vadar has 0, LMAOOO. That's a great way to put it, when I think about it.

 

[AllUniverse17]

It was their intros man. He couldn't be operating at 100 right now. Everybody trying to find their way just like he was.
Fin was out for self and discovered he was capable of something bigger than himself
Ol girl found out her Jedi ancestry and is about to get taught by Luke himself
So Ren has to start from somewhere too
This is his STARTING point. If you START off by building a planet with the distinct purpose of destroying other planets and you murder your father who was trying to make peace with you then think about where he might end up by the time they're done.

I disagree that this is Ren's starting point. The story tells us otherwise as far as his training and evil deeds go.

The real problem with the character is that he gets weaker and weaker throughout the movie, leaving us somewhat disappointed in the end.

Think back to his first scene. He killed it. You see that and you think damn this guy is a Darth Maul/Darth Vader level villain. But by the end of the movie he isnt much more then Rey's bitch.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

LMAOOO, Ok you convinced me Ren is not such a bitch. That makes sense, tho.

Yo, this shit is funny as hell now that you got me thinking about it. Vadar has 0, LMAOOO. That's a great way to put it, when I think about it.

Vader had 0 fam. That's why he's held in such high esteem. That's where everybody wanted Ren to be. but even when they did the prequels they showed Vader wasn't born like that. he was shaped that way and had to grow into 0 fuck mode.
Same with Ren.
Oh and I'm not saying he ain't a bitch. He's the villain you supposed to think he's a bitch. You supposed to hate him and just not like him. Supposed to.
I just like a good villain and that boy got big paws on a puppy.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

I disagree that this is Ren's starting point. The story tells us otherwise as far as his training and evil deeds go.

The real problem with the character is that he gets weaker and weaker throughout the movie, leaving us somewhat disappointed in the end.

Think back to his first scene. He killed it. You see that and you think damn this guy is a Darth Maul/Darth Vader level villain. But by the end of the movie he isnt much more then Rey's bitch.

He's up and down.
He had other parts where he was strong and other parts where he wasn't. That's the torture and that's what he's working towards, being consistent. His idol was consistently 0 fucks mode and he isn't there yet and we see him struggling TRYING to get there.
Killing his father was a HUGE hurdle for him. HUGE.
He isn't Rey's bitch. He needs more training. This is round 1. he thought he didn't need to prepare he could just show up and win and he couldn't. He won't make that same mistake next time. In turn she's going to do the same and get better.
We know who's going to win because its a movie. But he did MORE than enough to show what the future can hold of him
Like you said in the beginning he did the shit and you're like damn he can be on their level and then by the end because he wasn't consistent you were disappointed.
Wait until he's consistent to judge. Dude is still trying to find his way.

 

[4 Dimensional]

He's up and down.
He had other parts where he was strong and other parts where he wasn't. That's the torture and that's what he's working towards, being consistent. His idol was consistently 0 fucks mode and he isn't there yet and we see him struggling TRYING to get there.
Killing his father was a HUGE hurdle for him. HUGE.
He isn't Rey's bitch. He needs more training. This is round 1. he thought he didn't need to prepare he could just show up and win and he couldn't. He won't make that same mistake next time. In turn she's going to do the same and get better.
We know who's going to win because its a movie. But he did MORE than enough to show what the future can hold of him
Like you said in the beginning he did the shit and you're like damn he can be on their level and then by the end because he wasn't consistent you were disappointed.
Wait until he's consistent to judge. Dude is still trying to find his way.

He clearly has demonstrated great use of the force. He seems to handle that well, but his saber skills are super sub par. Rey threw him way off. She is already showing that she is going to be a beast Jedi (maybe).

 

[AllUniverse17]

He's up and down.
He had other parts where he was strong and other parts where he wasn't. That's the torture and that's what he's working towards, being consistent. His idol was consistently 0 fucks mode and he isn't there yet and we see him struggling TRYING to get there.
Killing his father was a HUGE hurdle for him. HUGE.
He isn't Rey's bitch. He needs more training. This is round 1. he thought he didn't need to prepare he could just show up and win and he couldn't. He won't make that same mistake next time. In turn she's going to do the same and get better.
We know who's going to win because its a movie. But he did MORE than enough to show what the future can hold of him
Like you said in the beginning he did the shit and you're like damn he can be on their level and then by the end because he wasn't consistent you were disappointed.
Wait until he's consistent to judge. Dude is still trying to find his way.

Yeah i see what you saying.