....you, know, I'm getting tired of always being right.
Lakers have to win this finals for kobes legacy
- Thread starter brickwall92
- Start date
Where does Kobe's legacy stand now?
Posted by Chris Broussard
I did several radio interviews on Friday, one day after the Staples Center collapse, and more than a few of the hosts wanted to know if Kobe Bryant's legacy as an all-time great was now forever tainted.
My answer was simple:
No way.
This has happened to the best of them.
Remember, all those horrific moments Magic Johnson had in the Lakers' 1984 Finals loss to Boston? How, with Game 2 tied, he dribbled out the clock at the end of regulation. Seconds earlier, the great James Worthy had an inbounds pass stolen by Gerald Henderson that enabled Boston to tie it, and the Celtics went on to win in overtime.
Then, in Game 4, Magic had several terrible turnovers as the Lakers blew a five-point lead with less than a minute to play. His worst was an attempted post-feed that he threw right into the arms of Robert Parish. Oh yeah, Magic also missed two free throws in OT.
I hate to bring this up at this sensitive point in time, but I remember my dad saying, "Man, if you didn't know better, you'd think Magic was throwing that series,'' in a conversation with friends.
For the record, the Broussards don't think the fix was in, but Magic's play was truly that tragic.
And what about Isiah Thomas, one of the game's greatest competitors/warriors/winners, having his inbounds pass stolen by Larry Bird in the final seconds of Game 5 of the 1987 Eastern Conference finals. Detroit was about to go up three games to two (and probably reach the NBA Finals) before Isiah's pass led to Dennis Johnson's game-winning layup.
Or how about Jerry West losing six Finals to the Celtics in the 1960s, or the fact that "The Logo" played four seasons with a healthy Wilt Chamberlain and won just one ring?
Or that Larry Bird never won a title without at least two Hall of Fame, Top 50 teammates?
I could go on and on because as I said, it's happened to the best of them.
Actually, let me amend that statement: It's happened to the best of the rest.
It never happened to the best; that being Michael Jordan, of course.
I'm purposely overlooking Jordan's initial comeback season of 1994-95 when Orlando's Nick Anderson stole the ball from him because MJ, having played only 17 regular-season games, clearly wasn't himself.
Back to my main point:
Kobe is easily an all-time great, and as I've said before, the second-best shooting guard ever.
But the MJ comparisons should stop.
As awesome as he is, Kobe is no Michael Jordan. Period. Like Magic and West, and Bird and Oscar, he's among the best of the rest.
There can't be a person on earth who believes Jordan would ever let his team drop a 24-point lead in the NBA Finals, especially in such a must-win game.
Here are a few facts to ponder:
Jordan made the playoffs every year of his career with the Chicago Bulls (let's throw out his final comeback with the Washington Wizards). Kobe, of course, failed to make the playoffs in 2005 despite playing with Caron Butler and Lamar Odom.
In his early years, Jordan was carrying cats like Quintin Dailey, Dave Corzine and Gene Banks to the playoffs.
Only once in his career did a Jordan-led team ever lose a playoff series after grabbing the series lead. That occurred in 1989 when his Bulls took a 2-1 lead over Detroit's bad boys before eventually falling 4-2. Kobe's Lakers, of course, blew a 3-1 lead to Phoenix in 2006.
And the biggest lead a Jordan-led team ever blew in the Finals was 13 points, and the circumstances weren't nearly as dire for his Bulls as they were for Kobe's Lakers on Thursday night.
Jordan's Bulls led Portland 2-1 and went ahead 22-9 in the first quarter of Game 4 of the 1992 Finals. Portland came back to win the game and tie the series, but Chicago took the next two games.
That game was probably one of Jordan's worst in the Finals as he went scoreless for the final 10 minutes and 26 seconds while Portland took control with a 15-6 run. Still, Jordan finished with 32 points, 6 assists and 5 rebounds. Hard to call that bad.
How about Jordan winning the Finals MVP award six times? No other player has won it more than three times, and Kobe hasn't won it once.
Have you checked Jordan's career stats in the Finals?
33.6 points, 6 rebounds, 6 assists, 1.8 steals, 2.4 turnovers on 48 percent shooting in 43 minutes per game.
In his first Finals against the Lakers in 1991, Jordan averaged 31 points, 11 assists, 6.6 rebounds and 1.4 blocks while shooting 56 percent from the floor.
He averaged 35.8 points on 53 percent shooting the next year against Portland, and 41 points, 8.5 rebounds and 6.3 assists on 51 percent shooting the following year against Phoenix.
And we're really comparing Kobe Bryant to him?
Look, Kobe is fabulous, arguably a Top 10 player of all-time.
But until he wins several rings without Shaq, don't ever fix your mouth to say he's as good as Jordan was.
Thursday's game was just the latest evidence.
Posted by Chris Broussard
I did several radio interviews on Friday, one day after the Staples Center collapse, and more than a few of the hosts wanted to know if Kobe Bryant's legacy as an all-time great was now forever tainted.
My answer was simple:
No way.
This has happened to the best of them.
Remember, all those horrific moments Magic Johnson had in the Lakers' 1984 Finals loss to Boston? How, with Game 2 tied, he dribbled out the clock at the end of regulation. Seconds earlier, the great James Worthy had an inbounds pass stolen by Gerald Henderson that enabled Boston to tie it, and the Celtics went on to win in overtime.
Then, in Game 4, Magic had several terrible turnovers as the Lakers blew a five-point lead with less than a minute to play. His worst was an attempted post-feed that he threw right into the arms of Robert Parish. Oh yeah, Magic also missed two free throws in OT.
I hate to bring this up at this sensitive point in time, but I remember my dad saying, "Man, if you didn't know better, you'd think Magic was throwing that series,'' in a conversation with friends.
For the record, the Broussards don't think the fix was in, but Magic's play was truly that tragic.
And what about Isiah Thomas, one of the game's greatest competitors/warriors/winners, having his inbounds pass stolen by Larry Bird in the final seconds of Game 5 of the 1987 Eastern Conference finals. Detroit was about to go up three games to two (and probably reach the NBA Finals) before Isiah's pass led to Dennis Johnson's game-winning layup.
Or how about Jerry West losing six Finals to the Celtics in the 1960s, or the fact that "The Logo" played four seasons with a healthy Wilt Chamberlain and won just one ring?
Or that Larry Bird never won a title without at least two Hall of Fame, Top 50 teammates?
I could go on and on because as I said, it's happened to the best of them.
Actually, let me amend that statement: It's happened to the best of the rest.
It never happened to the best; that being Michael Jordan, of course.
I'm purposely overlooking Jordan's initial comeback season of 1994-95 when Orlando's Nick Anderson stole the ball from him because MJ, having played only 17 regular-season games, clearly wasn't himself.
Back to my main point:
Kobe is easily an all-time great, and as I've said before, the second-best shooting guard ever.
But the MJ comparisons should stop.
As awesome as he is, Kobe is no Michael Jordan. Period. Like Magic and West, and Bird and Oscar, he's among the best of the rest.
There can't be a person on earth who believes Jordan would ever let his team drop a 24-point lead in the NBA Finals, especially in such a must-win game.
Here are a few facts to ponder:
Jordan made the playoffs every year of his career with the Chicago Bulls (let's throw out his final comeback with the Washington Wizards).
Kobe, of course, failed to make the playoffs in 2005 despite playing with Caron Butler and Lamar Odom. In his early years, Jordan was carrying cats like Quintin Dailey, Dave Corzine and Gene Banks to the playoffs.
Only once in his career did a Jordan-led team ever lose a playoff series after grabbing the series lead. That occurred in 1989 when his Bulls took a 2-1 lead over Detroit's bad boys before eventually falling 4-2. Kobe's Lakers, of course, blew a 3-1 lead to Phoenix in 2006.
And the biggest lead a Jordan-led team ever blew in the Finals was 13 points, and the circumstances weren't nearly as dire for his Bulls as they were for Kobe's Lakers on Thursday night.
Jordan's Bulls led Portland 2-1 and went ahead 22-9 in the first quarter of Game 4 of the 1992 Finals. Portland came back to win the game and tie the series, but Chicago took the next two games.
That game was probably one of Jordan's worst in the Finals as he went scoreless for the final 10 minutes and 26 seconds while Portland took control with a 15-6 run. Still, Jordan finished with 32 points, 6 assists and 5 rebounds. Hard to call that bad.
How about Jordan winning the Finals MVP award six times? No other player has won it more than three times, and Kobe hasn't won it once.
Have you checked Jordan's career stats in the Finals?
33.6 points, 6 rebounds, 6 assists, 1.8 steals, 2.4 turnovers on 48 percent shooting in 43 minutes per game.
In his first Finals against the Lakers in 1991, Jordan averaged 31 points, 11 assists, 6.6 rebounds and 1.4 blocks while shooting 56 percent from the floor.
He averaged 35.8 points on 53 percent shooting the next year against Portland, and 41 points, 8.5 rebounds and 6.3 assists on 51 percent shooting the following year against Phoenix.
And we're really comparing Kobe Bryant to him?
Look, Kobe is fabulous, arguably a Top 10 player of all-time.
But until he wins several rings without Shaq, don't ever fix your mouth to say he's as good as Jordan was.
Thursday's game was just the latest evidence.
fixed it for you.
good correction
cranrab u think kobe sucks?
overated is the word you are looking for....
I want the Lakers to win just because of comments like this. The Lakers dont need Shaq for shit.
Now you see why i take nothing he says seriously, i already thought he was clown but when he said Kobe had some weak handles i knew he was a clown
Re: fakers have to win this finals
I've watched over the years as you have jumped on every opportunity to get Kobe's name in your mouth. You say he hasn't accomplished anything (Despite the MVP, the scoring titles, the rings, the all-nba first teans, the all-star MVP and the all-nba defensive team), you say he has no milestones and you even call him "tobe", not even respecting the man's name.
Well Cranrab, and every other biter who co-signs the shit you say, I've come to the conclusion that you are some jilted fan who felt disrespected when you went to a Lakers game with your jersey on and pen in hand, stanning for an autograph. Of course, when it didn't come, you vowed instead to hate the man for life.
Of course you'll disregard my post because you think I'm a lurker and try to negate my point, but remember deep down inside, you know what it is.
I've watched over the years as you have jumped on every opportunity to get Kobe's name in your mouth. You say he hasn't accomplished anything (Despite the MVP, the scoring titles, the rings, the all-nba first teans, the all-star MVP and the all-nba defensive team), you say he has no milestones and you even call him "tobe", not even respecting the man's name.
Well Cranrab, and every other biter who co-signs the shit you say, I've come to the conclusion that you are some jilted fan who felt disrespected when you went to a Lakers game with your jersey on and pen in hand, stanning for an autograph. Of course, when it didn't come, you vowed instead to hate the man for life.
Of course you'll disregard my post because you think I'm a lurker and try to negate my point, but remember deep down inside, you know what it is.
Re: fakers have to win this finals
did you even say ANYTHING?
what's to negate?
came to the SPORTS board and didn't talk any sports.
what a coincidence.
did you even say ANYTHING?
what's to negate?
came to the SPORTS board and didn't talk any sports.
what a coincidence.
Re: fakers have to win this finals
BTW, kids were asking me for my autograph long before tobe became the glorified euro chucker he is today.
and nobody cares whether you're a lurker or not. why come to the SPORTS board to talk about ME? suspect already.
on this board i have plenty of stans and cyberstalkers. one queer who oddly proclaims he was "born a faker" (because his relatives played for the franchise at some point during the "60's and 70's) ADMITS he has multiple screen names on here. nothing suprises me from people like you anymore.
got any basketball insight to drop? right.
BTW, kids were asking me for my autograph long before tobe became the glorified euro chucker he is today.
and nobody cares whether you're a lurker or not. why come to the SPORTS board to talk about ME? suspect already.
on this board i have plenty of stans and cyberstalkers. one queer who oddly proclaims he was "born a faker" (because his relatives played for the franchise at some point during the "60's and 70's) ADMITS he has multiple screen names on here. nothing suprises me from people like you anymore.
got any basketball insight to drop? right.
Re: fakers have to win this finals to save tobe
SVT,
what do you call it when a player's play is detrimental to the team so much so that it becomes the primary reason for losses?
i'll gladly consider a new word if you can answer that for me.
SVT,
what do you call it when a player's play is detrimental to the team so much so that it becomes the primary reason for losses?
i'll gladly consider a new word if you can answer that for me.
..after all that they're only up 3?!?!?!?!
i wonder how that happened?
the stans, lurkers and biters just don't understand why their boyfriend hurts the team.
Two words, BAD COACHING
no sir, i think they have a name for that... failure = The condition or fact of being insufficient or falling short /// when your best aint just good enough..
Two words, BAD COACHING
Well the REAL tale is how the Celtics start the 3rd quarter. I had picked the Lakers to wind this game..but to get hit with an onslaught like that before the half..the Lakers body language wasn't showing a lot of confidence..
Phil has lost a step, he can't tell kobe shit., it's like he fears he'll lose his Job..
For this to be the second time in a row that this has happened to them its gonna take some guts for them to focus and get back on track
..this would NOT be a good time for Kobe to try to hi-jack the offense and go out guns blazing..
Another thing: Ray Allen didn't have a good first half. I can't see that happening the second half.
I will say yes and no to that. Can he tell Kobe shit? no. Has Phil lost a step not really
True that but if the other teammates continue the disappearing act then he'll have no choice. see how sloppy they playing now on defense
Re: fakers have to win this finals
Really??? Kids asking for your signature on paper??? Who exactly are you Cranrab??? Exactly how many times have you a) been on television, b) won an MVP or c) made millions of dollars??? I'm going to go out on a limb and say you haven't done any of those things.
And please don't embarrass yourself and go with that sports board bs argument. You're no PAID prognosticator and your argument comes from an obvious, and blatant animosity for the man. Whenever you type words on this board, you know what you're agenda will be.
And given you're jaded perspective, why would I argue with someone with a singular mentality no peripheral vision??? You see what you want to buddy.
Kobe's not the greatest to play the game, and he may never be, but he deserves more respect than you give him... and you know it.
BTW, kids were asking me for my autograph long before tobe became the glorified euro chucker he is today.
and nobody cares whether you're a lurker or not. why come to the SPORTS board to talk about ME? suspect already.
on this board i have plenty of stans and cyberstalkers. one queer who oddly proclaims he was "born a faker" (because his relatives played for the franchise at some point during the "60's and 70's) ADMITS he has multiple screen names on here. nothing suprises me from people like you anymore.
got any basketball insight to drop? right.
Really??? Kids asking for your signature on paper??? Who exactly are you Cranrab??? Exactly how many times have you a) been on television, b) won an MVP or c) made millions of dollars??? I'm going to go out on a limb and say you haven't done any of those things.
And please don't embarrass yourself and go with that sports board bs argument. You're no PAID prognosticator and your argument comes from an obvious, and blatant animosity for the man. Whenever you type words on this board, you know what you're agenda will be.
And given you're jaded perspective, why would I argue with someone with a singular mentality no peripheral vision??? You see what you want to buddy.
Kobe's not the greatest to play the game, and he may never be, but he deserves more respect than you give him... and you know it.
Re: fakers have to win this finals
then you'd be wrong. i've done 2 out of 3. hint: MVP wasn't one of them.
embarassed?
why would i be embarassed when between the 2 of us, i have actually discussed SPORTS on the SPORTS board. what a novel idea. you and a handful of other suspect individuals follow me here from BGOL and talk about ME.
you say jaded, i say truthful, and back it up with historical and statistical evidence.
and please don't embarass yourself with that "singular mentality" bs argument. it's a cowardly cop-out.
stans like you disagree with one (or more) points, but are NEVER armed to defend your position. god forbid an intelligent man should be able to advance his position in a discussion.
then you'd be wrong. i've done 2 out of 3. hint: MVP wasn't one of them.
embarassed?
why would i be embarassed when between the 2 of us, i have actually discussed SPORTS on the SPORTS board. what a novel idea. you and a handful of other suspect individuals follow me here from BGOL and talk about ME.
you say jaded, i say truthful, and back it up with historical and statistical evidence.
and please don't embarass yourself with that "singular mentality" bs argument. it's a cowardly cop-out.
stans like you disagree with one (or more) points, but are NEVER armed to defend your position. god forbid an intelligent man should be able to advance his position in a discussion.
In order to get a foul you gotta be playing some defense
. Thats the realest shit you ever said about any laker player. What do you guys think about Rondo ????
.the Lakers are winning the quarter. That's another good sign.
He's having a bad game, and Cassell isn't much better. I think that is the situation they need to address in the off season: a competent back up PG.
He's having a bad game, and Cassell isn't much better. I think that is the situation they need to address in the off season: a competent back up PG.
All that confidence he had in the first two games has disappeared, he has reverted back to the Rondo in the Cavs series
Re: fakers have to win this finals
Well if you've made millions you should be able to afford a laptop so i could show you in REAL TIME that you don't know shit about basketball
then you'd be wrong. i've done 2 out of 3. hint: MVP wasn't one of them.
embarassed?
why would i be embarassed when between the 2 of us, i have actually discussed SPORTS on the SPORTS board. what a novel idea. you and a handful of other suspect individuals follow me here from BGOL and talk about ME.
you say jaded, i say truthful, and back it up with historical and statistical evidence.
and please don't embarass yourself with that "singular mentality" bs argument. it's a cowardly cop-out.
stans like you disagree with one (or more) points, but are NEVER armed to defend your position. god forbid an intelligent man should be able to advance his position in a discussion.
Well if you've made millions you should be able to afford a laptop so i could show you in REAL TIME that you don't know shit about basketball