Yo what's good Zef? What'd you think of the Arce/Vazquez fight? That shit was war.
wish his pops would have let him finish the fight... less than 2 minutes left...let him finish...he was still punching..
*** Super Fight: Manny Pacquiao vs. 'Sugar' Shane Mosley OFFICIAL thread ***
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wish his pops would have let him finish the fight... less than 2 minutes left...let him finish...he was still punching..
Maybe it happened during the "car accident".
On the real, Manny has always had an excuse when he looked bad. Agaisnt Morales he had a thousand excuses ranging from he didn't have his punchers gloves to being weak from giving blood, he didn't have his lucky groin protector....dude should just say he had a bad night, keep it real, that I could respect. Leg cramp my ass. He never mentioned no leg cramp when he was ko'ing Cotto and tearing up Margarito. Oh the leg cramp prolly happened when Marquez was boxing his around the ring 3 years ago.
Yo what's good Zef? What'd you think of the Arce/Vazquez fight? That shit was war.
I think they obviously threw Vazquez in there too quick. You could just see from the first round that Arce surprisingly matched Vazquez in size and just had that extremely confident and comfortable presence in the ring that a still good veteran fighter has. Vazquez seemed so green and got caught with punches he should have, threw nervous punches like the push off kind of double punch he threw with both hands at the same time. Vazquez showed tremendous heart that most sons of champions don't have. It was sad to see him go out like that and hopefully he wasn't ruined because I think he has tremendous potential. They should have moved him slow like they did Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. People hate on Chavez Jr's comp but they are doing the right thing with him. Why rush things in a situation like that?
Regarding Arce, good for him. Arce is really overrated. That dude has been fighting forever and is still relatively fresh. He always becomes a champ then loses and then becomes a champ again. Aren't Barrera and Morales always talking about being the first Mexicans to win titles in 3 divisions or something? If so, I think Arce beat them to it but it probably won't get as much noise because Arce is not as popular as those guys.
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Maybe it happened during the "car accident".
I think it was Shane talking about the leg cramps though..not pacman. Shane was obviously have some leg problems.. I called it during the 8th...he wasnt just gassed..he was literally dragging his left leg....he said he was cramping and his left toe was bleeding..
No, Manny disagreeing to the full testing is the only thing blocking the fight from happening.
I agree with 'cutting the ring off'...
No disrespect meant to Duran. At all.
But fam, you actually kinda comparing Lou Bizzaro to Sugar Shane?
You trippin'
Lou Bizzarro's (lifetime) record was 31-2 with 9 KOs.
- Pretty much NO real knockout power. At all.
- Even if he landed a 'lucky' shot.
Meanwhile...
Sugar Shane Mosely's (lifetime) record is 46-7-1..... with 39 KOs.
- After 54 fights, there's only 15 dudes he did not completely... Knock the fuk out.
- He's got REAL KO power... if you chase him around the ring..... and get caught slipping.
So what (decent) Boxer WOULD NOT chase a guy around the ring... if they KNOW deep down inside.... the guy can't counterpunch well & hurt him. Badly. or possibly even Knock him out?
OF COURSE DURAN, OR SHANE, OR PAC MAN, OR MAYWEATHER...
ARE GONNA CHASE DOWN THE 'LOU BIZZARO's' OF BOXING.
HE's A MUCH WEAKER BOXER.
End of story.
I agree wih everything you say, but I think the gap in talent between Chavez Jr. and Vazquez is pretty evident though. It's a shame that Vazquez Jr. doesn't have that amateur experience that's so vital at the elite level. Only special fighters like Sergio Martinez who are just tremendous athletes can get away with not having that amateur background. Can't wait for the rematch though. I love watching any Arce fight, dude is a lil fucking beast. He's still got it even in his early thirties when small fighters are usual done. Great fight though. One of the best I've seen so far this year.
Your forgetting that Floyd accepted a 50-50 split.... Manny walked away from the table.
This is true.
I agree with 'cutting the ring off'...
No disrespect meant to Duran. At all.
But fam, you actually kinda comparing Lou Bizzaro to Sugar Shane?
You trippin'
Lou Bizzarro's (lifetime) record was 31-2 with 9 KOs.
- Pretty much NO real knockout power. At all.
- Even if he landed a 'lucky' shot.
Meanwhile...
Sugar Shane Mosely's (lifetime) record is 46-7-1..... with 39 KOs.
- After 54 fights, there's only 15 dudes he did not completely... Knock the fuk out.
- He's got REAL KO power... if you chase him around the ring..... and get caught slipping.
So what (decent) Boxer WOULD NOT chase a guy around the ring... if they KNOW deep down inside.... the guy can't counterpunch well & hurt him. Badly. or possibly even Knock him out?
OF COURSE DURAN, OR SHANE, OR PAC MAN, OR MAYWEATHER...
ARE GONNA CHASE DOWN THE 'LOU BIZZARO's' OF BOXING.
HE's A MUCH WEAKER BOXER.
End of story.
Wow.... dude the question isn't about KO's its about cutting off the ring. Boxers getting beat up... run. The boxer doing the beating chase, cut off the ring and land shots.
I know.. i was just stressing that the split shouldnt be an issue...the other cat was saying it should be a 60-40 split...even if this fight does low numbers..i dont think the issue is going to be floyd asking too much on the split..and even if it needed to be adjusted slightly..i dont think that would be a real problem....i just cant understand why this fight really cant get done..
Cool. It's sad that so many people ignore what actually happened.
Wow.... dude the question isn't about KO's its about cutting off the ring. Boxers getting beat up... run. The boxer doing the beating chase, cut off the ring and land shots.
Tell that to Manny, I don't think he gets it either.
Oh I forgot, it was his leg cramp. 3 fucking months of training and your leg waits until fight night to cramp up? GTFOH!!!
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Wow.... dude the question isn't about KO's its about cutting off the ring. Boxers getting beat up... run. The boxer doing the beating chase, cut off the ring and land shots.
I know what the question is about.
But Merce seems to harp MORE on the fact that Manny was not doing enuff chasing. And LESS harping about Shane running away.
Blaming Manny for not 'cutting off the ring' and whatnot.
While also trying to say that Shane fought the SAME exact fight against Mayweather. Which is not the case.
So I posted video proof. At all.
Now the discussion has morphed into being MORE about....... "Manny sucks. This is how you cut the ring off."
(While ignoring the fact that Duran was fighting a MUCH weaker opponent.)
But i'll give Merce some props. He's good at ignoring facts (tonight).
Like Video. And boxing records.
Just jokes.
I can't see this being about money at all. Floyd is largely an inactive fighter and he's just getting older. It could be 60-40 in Floyd's favor and it still would not guarantee that this fight would come off. Floyd acts like a fighter that does not want to fight anybody, least of all Manny Pacquiao. If Floyd was interested in boxing he would be boxing. If the fight with Pac is such easy work like the fans said, the shit would have happened long time ago.
Right. Maybe I missed that article. I'll believe the more circulated article where Floyd says no negotiations take place only to be debunked and him later saying he just wanted to take a vacation. Per that news, Pac was the one that accepted everything only for Mayweather to not take it. Regardless, it's not worth arguing because Mayweather doesn't want to fight and people keep talking about a guy that's only fought twice in the last 4 years like he should be relevant. Mayweather is headed for a sad ending and guys like you can't see it.
I know what the question is about.
But Merce seems to harp MORE on the fact that Manny was not doing enuff chasing. And LESS harping about Shane running away.
Blaming Manny for not 'cutting off the ring' and whatnot.
While also trying to say that Shane fought the SAME exact fight against Mayweather. Which is not the case.
So I posted video proof. At all.
Now the discussion has morphed into being MORE about....... "Manny sucks. This is how you cut the ring off."
(While ignoring the fact that Duran was fighting a MUCH weaker opponent.)
But i'll give Merce some props. He's good at ignoring facts (tonight).
Like Video. And boxing records.
Just jokes.
Facts. Mosley is 40 years old. Fact, Mosley has no legs. Fact, Mosley threw about ten right hands the whole fight. Fact, Mosley was circling in the same direction the whole fight. Fact, Pac couldn't do shit with a 40 year old dude with no legs unless he was standing still. Mosley was throwing nothing in return even Pacquiao got close, it's not like Manny had to worry about all the bombs that were coming his way just to get in a shot.
Also, I posted the Bizarro/Duran fight just to show you what it looked like when a dude was really RUNNING without offering ANY offense at all, but you missed that point. Shane was circling and making Manny miss. Again, it's on Manny as this great destroyer who is supposedly the greatest fighter and better than Ali according to the media whores, to get to this old man with no legs who is supposedly running from and miraculously able to elude him. Again, is Shane supposed to stand there and let Manny hit him? Is he supposed to fight Manny's fight and play into Manny's hands, just so some Filipino's at the MGM won't boo him. Shane did what he felt he had to do. Manny is younger, faster, at this point, a more powerful fighter, so exactly what is his excuse for not being able to get to this 40 year old, trigger shy, completely shot fighter? I mean Bizarro had better legs than Shane and was RUNNING his ass off and Duran, who Manny would supposedly stop according to many idiots in the media (especially ESPN), was able to cut the ring off and destroy this dude. Manny was only able to hurt Shane when Shane came to him. If I was Pac, I'd be embarrassed. Pac showed major flaws in his game and at this point it's clear to me that Sergio Martinez deserves Manny's spot as the p4p best in the world. Forget Floyd and Marquez, Arum would rather have Manny fight both them ninjas in the same night in a tag team match before putting his golden egg laying goose in with Sergio.
Fam it's obvious you don't spend much time reading our posts about boxing, but I've been one of the most critical dudes on this whole messageboard about Floyd. But facts are facts, when I watch a fight, I know what I'm seeing. I know that Mayweather and Pac are part of the problem but gullible ass casual fans are the biggest problem. They actually think they are watching something special when they see Pac fight and tear up a BUM like Margarito or a shot fighter like Cotto. Or watching Floyd have this supposedly legendary victory against a severly undersized Marquez. Those fights were over when the contracts were signed. What Pac and Floyd deserve is for the fight to be a complete DUD - and have people boo the shit out of both of them.
I know that when I'm watching a 46 yr old Hopkins take to school a young champ who's old enough to be his son, I'm watching something special. Or when I'm watching a 37 year old Marquez take to school and ko every guy who earns a title shot against him, I'm watching something special. Or when I see Sergio Martinez taking apart world class fighter after world class fighter and knock an iron chinned, much bigger top ten p4p Paul Williams, I'm watching something special. That's the difference between a casual fan, and those of us who know what we're watching. And for the record, I'm loving MMA. Them cats get it in.
real shit as always.
this whole post reeks of
your a Mayweather stan arent you....
Im not even that big of an MMA fan.... but boxing is looking like trash compared to it.... and dont even think that Mayweather isnt part of the problem.... if he wasnt boxing wouldnt suck as much as it does now.
Bullshit you obviously aren't a real fan of boxing because you wouldn't have just said this shit.
There have been great boxing fights all year.
I'll name a few:
Sergio Martinez destroying Sergiy Dzinziruk
Nonito Donaire vs Fernando Montiel
Victor Ortiz's upset of Andre Berto
Brandon Rios vs Miguel Acosta
Orlando Solis's upset over Juanma (who was one fight away from a mega fight with Gamboa)
Vic Darchinyian as always putting on a great and entertaining fight against Yonnhy Perez
Yuriorkas Gamboa vs Jorge Solis.
Maidana vs Morales, another surprising and entertaining fight.
Khan vs Maidana was a cliffhanger (not this year but at the end of last year and within the last 6 months)
Cotto vs. Mayorga was even a surprisingly good and entertaining fight.
And these are the fights only with the names you may know and this is only the 5th month of the year, we're not even halfway through.
Novice boxing fans will watch a fight like this with two huge names that disappoints and suddenly condemn the whole sport when in reality the sport is fine (Outside of the Heavyweight division) guys like you just aren't watching unless its a real popular fight. You completely miss rise of up and comers and don't pay attention until there already on top.
That fight is 50/50, neither side can really make a legitimate argument for more money because they do similar numbers. Even though Mayweather is very unpopular now he draws great because of that bad guy image (which I think is actually real).
Like I bet Floyd did much better numbers with Shane than Pac did. Floyd did like 1.4 PPV numbers with Marquez who was never a draw (even in his 2 fights with Pac).
Flat out that is an even fight, but both sides will continue to argue and be bitches, letting their respective egos dictate the negotiations instead of just making the fight.
That is the thing man..I dont think Floyd really loves boxing anymore. I think he is excellent at it and he makes a lot of money doing it...however, if he didnt need anymore money, I dont think he would box again..
damn shame...because this dude is wasting his prime
I'm gonna go a little off topic and vent about something that really annoys me about boxing. How can a guy (Shane) who's last two fights ended in a loss and a draw get a Title fight. I'm tired of boxers cherry picking their opponents. I really wish picking fights was taken out of the fighter/promoters hands. I'm tired off these lopsided fights. Boxing is in serious need of a overhaul. Maybe take some ques from the UFC.
real shit as always.
Bullshit you obviously aren't a real fan of boxing because you wouldn't have just said this shit.
There have been great boxing fights all year.
I'll name a few:
Sergio Martinez destroying Sergiy Dzinziruk
Nonito Donaire vs Fernando Montiel
Victor Ortiz's upset of Andre Berto
Brandon Rios vs Miguel Acosta
Orlando Solis's upset over Juanma (who was one fight away from a mega fight with Gamboa)
Vic Darchinyian as always putting on a great and entertaining fight against Yonnhy Perez
Yuriorkas Gamboa vs Jorge Solis.
Maidana vs Morales, another surprising and entertaining fight.
Khan vs Maidana was a cliffhanger (not this year but at the end of last year and within the last 6 months)
Cotto vs. Mayorga was even a surprisingly good and entertaining fight.
And these are the fights only with the names you may know and this is only the 5th month of the year, we're not even halfway through.
Novice boxing fans will watch a fight like this with two huge names that disappoints and suddenly condemn the whole sport when in reality the sport is fine (Outside of the Heavyweight division) guys like you just aren't watching unless its a real popular fight. You completely miss rise of up and comers and don't pay attention until there already on top.
Great points. Damn, I didn't even realize boxing is actually having a great year.
For real, there have been some entertaining ass fights. Next week we got Abraham vs Ward and the week after is Hopkins vs Pascal too
Facts. Mosley is 40 years old. Fact, Mosley has no legs. Fact, Mosley threw about ten right hands the whole fight. Fact, Mosley was circling in the same direction the whole fight. Fact, Pac couldn't do shit with a 40 year old dude with no legs unless he was standing still. Mosley was throwing nothing in return even Pacquiao got close, it's not like Manny had to worry about all the bombs that were coming his way just to get in a shot.
Also, I posted the Bizarro/Duran fight just to show you what it looked like when a dude was really RUNNING without offering ANY offense at all, but you missed that point. Shane was circling and making Manny miss. Again, it's on Manny as this great destroyer who is supposedly the greatest fighter and better than Ali according to the media whores, to get to this old man with no legs who is supposedly running from and miraculously able to elude him. Again, is Shane supposed to stand there and let Manny hit him? Is he supposed to fight Manny's fight and play into Manny's hands, just so some Filipino's at the MGM won't boo him. Shane did what he felt he had to do. Manny is younger, faster, at this point, a more powerful fighter, so exactly what is his excuse for not being able to get to this 40 year old, trigger shy, completely shot fighter? I mean Bizarro had better legs than Shane and was RUNNING his ass off and Duran, who Manny would supposedly stop according to many idiots in the media (especially ESPN), was able to cut the ring off and destroy this dude. Manny was only able to hurt Shane when Shane came to him. If I was Pac, I'd be embarrassed. Pac showed major flaws in his game and at this point it's clear to me that Sergio Martinez deserves Manny's spot as the p4p best in the world. Forget Floyd and Marquez, Arum would rather have Manny fight both them ninjas in the same night in a tag team match before putting his golden egg laying goose in with Sergio.
I think your assessment is a little harsh but yeah Pac performed beneath expectations. However, that in itself tells you how good Pac is. He won by virtual shutout and knocked down and rocked Mosley badly in the process. That should count for something considering how rock chinned Mosley is. The last time I remember Mosley on the canvas was against Forrest probably ten years ago.
Anyway, I think Manny was a little embarrassed but to be fair, historically it's usually hard to look good against a guy that's just trying to survive the whole time. Some of the most boring fights in recent history have been caused by this. Jones vs Chirino, Hopkins vs Joppy, Klitschko vs Thompson, etc. These survivors can make the offensive fighter seem ineffective.
In spite of the stylistic issues with fighting guys that want to survive, I believe we are witnessing a decline in Pac and it was bound to happen with his all action style. Even though he won the Margarito fight, I think it took a lot out of him. Those beatings to the body can be worst than the head shots. Martinez is nice but I'll give Pac the benefit of the doubt and says he's still number one just like people give Mayweather the benefit of the doubt and include him on any lists even though he almost never fights.
You've got a point but a guy has to fight the competition in his division. At this point, Pac has fought most of the relevant fighters at 147 and will have to start looking at the fighters at 140 for challenges.
Rick Ronson
Banned
That was a bitch ass fight....
Oscar Dela Hoya did better than that.
Oscar Dela Hoya did better than that.
Floyd's been off my list. Martinez has been fighting world class fighters who were actually a threat to him and he's been fucking them up straight up and down. Not looking bad against 40 year old dudes and beating up bum asses like Margarito. The last 2 years have been all Sergio in comparison to Pacman. But Pac is the media darling and has been groomed to be the face of boxing. I don't think it has really anyhting to do with Pac not being the same after the Margarito fight, I think it's more to do with Pac having set a certain standard against weak comp and the average novice fan not understanding that. Manny and Floyd for all their differences in the ring are so similar. Since 130lbs who have they beat? Cherry picked opponents. And they've made millions doing it, now they're both leary of fighting each other. It's kind of a tragic type of comedy to be honest.
That is the thing man..I dont think Floyd really loves boxing anymore. I think he is excellent at it and he makes a lot of money doing it...however, if he didnt need anymore money, I dont think he would box again..
Hells yeah! This guy is wasting his prime in a very big way and he's going to choose the wrong time to come back and get knocked out by someone like a Victor Ortiz or something. The longer this guy stays out of the ring the worse it is for him. People don't realize how long this guy has been away from the ring. 34 years old is too late to be playing these kinds of games and making sporadic comebacks. He's going to comeback overconfident thinking he has the same skills only to get a rude awakening in the ring against some guy that should not be able to take him to hell.
not entirely true. The part about Floyd taking a vacation is true, and he's bullshitted with negotiations as much as Pac and his team (the blame is 50/50 imo) but Pac didn't agree to everything, particularly when it came to the tests. Thats just the narrative they fed to the press and Pac has more powerful, vocal and visible people behind him (Arum/Roach) who are more savvy and experienced vs Floyds people (Ellerbee/Haymon) so that shit flew.
What actually happened is Pac agreed to testing up to 14 days, and then he wanted to not have to test anymore until after the fight.
The problem with this is 1) two weeks still is plenty of time to cycle steroids, or whatever banned substance, and have it out your system before the fight and particularly after the fight takes place (when Pac's team wanted the last test to take place).
2) and most important is when you do Olympic style testing, the tests are random and occur up to the fight, at the testers discretion, so you can't pick and choose when to be tested. Pac's team won't agree to that and its a major sticking point, not just for Floyd because even if he agreed to the 14 day arrangement the people conducting the tests won't.
That is the thing man..I dont think Floyd really loves boxing anymore. I think he is excellent at it and he makes a lot of money doing it...however, if he didnt need anymore money, I dont think he would box again..
True, I think had he been wiser with his money or even found another way to make the money he makes in boxing or similar he would have never come back.
See my post above about 2011 fights thus far.
One bad fight has nothing to do with the whole sport, and this has always happened. For example, how did and obviously old and shot Joe Louis get a fight against a young prime champ in Marciano? Its nothing new and common in every sport, there are plenty of fights in MMA that are bullshit.
For example how can someone with no real experience or years in MMA like Brock Lesnar walk and get title shots. He still only has what, 7 fights under his belt. That would never happen in boxing. So the opposite argument could be made against MMA.
I commend you for having a realistic list. Martinez is the goods but I think Pac has earned his spot over him for now. Regarding Pac's opponents, I think arguments can be made for pulling up a shit list on virtually anyone's competition.
Read OutlawR.O.C.'s post above, there have been more entertaining fights in boxing this year than in MMA, but the average fan who just watches boxing but isn't really into it don't pay attention unless they hear the fighter's name all the time in the media.
Kind of like how people were disappointed in the St.Pierre/Shields fight but forgot that Aldo/Hominick was a gem of a fight on the same card because neither is as famous as St.Pierre. You could actually fault George for not fighting Silva and taking the fight with Shields who's only dangerous on the ground. I heard a few cats at work critquing that fight to death but again, these people forget that they also just saw a classic fight between Aldo and Hominick.
Well tonight, Arce and Vazquez fought a great fight but all the talk has been about how wack the Mosley/Pac fight was.
I see where you're coming from about the testing but I just see that whole PED issue as one big smokescreen from a guy that just doesn't want to fight period. The whole PED thing is irrelevant in my mind because I'm not even convinced PED's help boxers no matter how many people rationalize that it does even though they have no proof. I understand I am in the minority regarding this but I have never cared.
I think he's earned it about as much as Floyd earned his. They have fought pretty much the same guys the last few years.
Zef knows this stuff, but he rather keep repeating that Floyd is scared and that PED hurt a fighter's performance so Floyd shouldn't care about the testing. Try to have a logical discussion with him and you will realize that there isn't an ounce of logic in him. Don't waste your time...
Great points. Damn, I didn't even realize boxing is actually having a great year.
Thank you, not only that but that Froch vs. Glencove Johnson is going to be a damn good fight IMO. Froch's style is made for Glencove to have a good night and give him problems, and he may continue the streak of upsets that have happened this year.
And if you think about it Pascal vs. Hopkins 1 has also happened in the last six months so we are having a damn great run in boxing, cats just don't want to give props when due. Its much easier just to watch one fight like this and say that tired "boxing is dead, this is why I don't watch boxing anymore" shit.
Real shit.
Thats what I always try to tell people who want to pick sides and be groupies for either Pac or Floyd. Both are full of shit and both are at fault for this fight not happening.
The fact that we as fans keep falling for that shit, picking sides and supporting both is why they continue to do it.
We are accomplishes in their bullshit. If we, meaning fans as a whole, stopped supporting these bullshit fights, particularly with PPV and showing up to the arena, both would get the message loud and clear and would have no choice but to fight.
But when both can continue to pull in 20 mil. a fight to fight cherry picked opponents they have no real incentive to fight.
Until we step up or one of them see's a flaw in the other which they can easily exploit I don't expect to see that fight, at this point I don't even know if I want to to be honest.
I agree with this. PED's helping out in boxing is bullshit. Floyd would still be by far the better boxer.
Seriously I do agree with this statement though. I think Floyd is full of shit with his "I'm trying to clean up the sport" horseshit. I think Floyd had his reservations but I wouldn't be surprised after seeing what I know he saw tonight, that he presses to make this fight happen. Because tonight wasn't a case of Manny having a bad night, it was a case of Manny not knowing what to do when faced with a fighter who wasn't there to war with him.
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