Questions about the loss of black dominance in the world.

[Gammon]

I've recently been reading up on the history of the African empires and civilizations and I'm learning a good deal about what we've accomplished...but I've always had this nagging question and wanted some insight on this...

Many not all of us can agree and acknowledge the following facts:

The fact that the black Moors civilized Europe and brought about the Renaissance in Europe after the fall of Rome.
The fact that Ancient Egypt was ruled by black and other non-white Pharoahs before the rise of Rome and Greece. Much of what Rome and Greece accomplished is owed to Egypt.
The fact that Mansa Musa and many African kingdoms/empire were vastly wealthy and possessed vast amounts of knowledge. Timbuktu was and is still world-renowned for its scholarship.

Many of us may also accept the next facts:

White Europeans have lost their dominance once before. The fall of the Roman Empire resulted in a loss of knowledge and wealth before blacks came in and recivilized Europe.
Much of our history has been erased or whitewashed.
Much of what whites have achieved could be considered stolen.
Much of the world as we know it now is dominated by white supremacy.

Now some of us feel that whites are inferior in every way. From their culture to their physical abilities to their sense of self, blacks are superior in every way. Clearly whites were not on our level until we shared things with them. Also, we had power before slavery and colonialism. Now look at where we are worldwide.

My question is how did we lose our foothold on world dominance when we created and originated civilization itself? Why didn't we spread our knowledge across African tribes and the African continent instead of dealing with the Romans (Egyptians) as well as invading Europe and letting many of them learn the same things that we knew (Moors)?

 

[SaKem]

It's a sad story. I'd say the two most important factors were guns and manipulation, such as divide and conquer etc.

Read this book.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0883780305/?tag=vp314-20

 

[DaAssWatcher]

Its not in our nature to be greedy and selfish.Thats why we shared tha knowledge we had because we never really looked at tha white man as a real threat.Tha sheer amount of empires that came and went before europe had anything going on is crazy.Imagine tha ones that got lost when tha white man decided to erase our history???

A lot of ethnic tribes in Africa were considered brothers and sisters before tha white man came with his divide and conquer bullshit.

Tha Moors fucked up.They should have let those motherfuckaz die out.
Actually Hannibal should have burned tha entire Rome to tha ground and put a strangle hold on tha rest of that continent.If his father wasn't assassinated I'm pretty sure thats what he would have done, at least burned Rome to tha ground.

I feel we live in an alternate reality were African people fell tha fuck off.Right now to many brothers and sisters are stuck in a state of trying to please tha white man to realize they are in a war.Some consciously and tha other subconsciously do it.

 

[kefta]

Good questions but let's not focus so much on what our ancestors did or did not do... Why? because if what we had back then was very powerful, then racism/white supremacy would not be in place today. Our "ancestors" were caught off guard. There is little to look back to, that is more powerful than the global, national and local system of racism/white supremacy. Now, one of the things that "we" need to do is, "Lets use LOGIC as our leader to replace racism/white supremacy with a system of JUSTICE. Good post. oNe!!!

 

[charlie dark]

'Africans' never saw themselves as a 'black'race per se....
IT was your tribe or ethnic group and then everyone else, be they white black, blue or green.
The concept of black/African being an ethnic grouping is a European concept introduced to ease the conquest...of 'black' peoples

 

[Sampson]

'Africans' never saw themselves as a 'black'race per se....
IT was your tribe or ethnic group and then everyone else, be they white black, blue or green.
The concept of black/African being an ethnic grouping is a European concept introduced to ease the conquest...of 'black' peoples

I agree but in other words, the concept of 'race' was not created by 'Africans'. If most people understood the origins of 'race' and which 'people' continue to perpetuate this man-made social construct, it would be a small step into debunking the 'racial superiority complex' that many people live and abide by today.

 

[Mello Mello]

For one Africa was far too divided ethnically and tribally. I believe had there been a sort of united states of Africa or some type of allied union of African states they would have stood a better chance of maintaining dominance. Second, there wasn't enough resistance to colonizing forces. Fighting against the colonialism of Arabs, Romans, Europeans etc. The little resistance we do know of wasn't enough.

It's been repeated among various scholars (Cheikh Anta Diop comes to mind) that Africans were xenophiles, and far too attracted and accepting of foreign peoples customs and culture. They couldn't see the foreigners real intentions were to usurp their power. This is how Egypt loss hold of it's black pharaohs, by allowing Arabs to take African wives and marry into royal lineages. I mean what country you know is that accepting of foreigners? Most countries would meet any influx of foreigners with hostilities and maintain they never governed over the native people.

 

[cbm_redux]

Who rules the world at a given time is largely a function of one thing, weather. Look at the history of the world and you can easily see how the seat of world power has climbed steadily north as the world has gotten hotter and drier in this inter-glacial period.

 

[Sampson]

For one Africa was far too divided ethnically and tribally. I believe had there been a sort of united states of Africa or some type of allied union of African states they would have stood a better chance of maintaining dominance. Second, there wasn't enough resistance to colonizing forces. Fighting against the colonialism of Arabs, Romans, Europeans etc. The little resistance we do know of wasn't enough.

It's been repeated among various scholars (Cheikh Anta Diop comes to mind) that Africans were xenophiles, and far too attracted and accepting of foreign peoples customs and culture. They couldn't see the foreigners real intentions were to usurp their power. This is how Egypt loss hold of it's black pharaohs, by allowing Arabs to take African wives and marry into royal lineages. I mean what country you know is that accepting of foreigners? Most countries would meet any influx of foreigners with hostilities and maintain they never governed over the native people.

This has inspired me to create a thread based on this essay I read.

 

[the Imm font]

no different the loss of white dominancevery soon. What goes up has to come back down

 

[Mello Mello]

This has inspired me to create a thread based on this essay I read.

Please share this essay.

 

[Sampson]

Please share this essay.

I just posted it:

http://www.bgol.us/board/showthread.php?t=519670

 

[kefta]

bUmp!

 

[NinjaspiT]

I've recently been reading up on the history of the African empires and civilizations and I'm learning a good deal about what we've accomplished...but I've always had this nagging question and wanted some insight on this...

Many not all of us can agree and acknowledge the following facts:

The fact that the black Moors civilized Europe and brought about the Renaissance in Europe after the fall of Rome.
The fact that Ancient Egypt was ruled by black and other non-white Pharoahs before the rise of Rome and Greece. Much of what Rome and Greece accomplished is owed to Egypt.
The fact that Mansa Musa and many African kingdoms/empire were vastly wealthy and possessed vast amounts of knowledge. Timbuktu was and is still world-renowned for its scholarship.

Many of us may also accept the next facts:

White Europeans have lost their dominance once before. The fall of the Roman Empire resulted in a loss of knowledge and wealth before blacks came in and recivilized Europe.
Much of our history has been erased or whitewashed.
Much of what whites have achieved could be considered stolen.
Much of the world as we know it now is dominated by white supremacy.

Now some of us feel that whites are inferior in every way. From their culture to their physical abilities to their sense of self, blacks are superior in every way. Clearly whites were not on our level until we shared things with them. Also, we had power before slavery and colonialism. Now look at where we are worldwide.

My question is how did we lose our foothold on world dominance when we created and originated civilization itself? Why didn't we spread our knowledge across African tribes and the African continent instead of dealing with the Romans (Egyptians) as well as invading Europe and letting many of them learn the same things that we knew (Moors)?

Well to answer your question,there are only two ways out.

1.You can take the Xenophile route,and say that the African had its kindness trampled by the action of materializing it as a weakness by these power hungry lighter skinned races.

2.You can take the holistic approach and realize that perhaps the African knew that nature would eventually justify what was stolen from them.This also involves the spiritual/religious contexts of NOI,Hebrew israelites,African knowledge etc. that these lighter races are here only to give the experience of evil in a yin/yang type context to the innately loving personality of blacks who are incapable of such harsh evil as the lighter skinned races.

 

[Artist Monk]

I've recently been reading up on the history of the African empires and civilizations and I'm learning a good deal about what we've accomplished...but I've always had this nagging question and wanted some insight on this...

Many not all of us can agree and acknowledge the following facts:

The fact that the black Moors civilized Europe and brought about the Renaissance in Europe after the fall of Rome.
The fact that Ancient Egypt was ruled by black and other non-white Pharoahs before the rise of Rome and Greece. Much of what Rome and Greece accomplished is owed to Egypt.
The fact that Mansa Musa and many African kingdoms/empire were vastly wealthy and possessed vast amounts of knowledge. Timbuktu was and is still world-renowned for its scholarship.

Many of us may also accept the next facts:

White Europeans have lost their dominance once before. The fall of the Roman Empire resulted in a loss of knowledge and wealth before blacks came in and recivilized Europe.
Much of our history has been erased or whitewashed.
Much of what whites have achieved could be considered stolen.
Much of the world as we know it now is dominated by white supremacy.

Now some of us feel that whites are inferior in every way. From their culture to their physical abilities to their sense of self, blacks are superior in every way. Clearly whites were not on our level until we shared things with them. Also, we had power before slavery and colonialism. Now look at where we are worldwide.

My question is how did we lose our foothold on world dominance when we created and originated civilization itself? Why didn't we spread our knowledge across African tribes and the African continent instead of dealing with the Romans (Egyptians) as well as invading Europe and letting many of them learn the same things that we knew (Moors)?

What black civilization predates Egypt? I find it interesting that we a black people delve no further than whatever carrot the "white" people hang before us in acknowledging Egypt as a black civilization and thus blacks folks doing the same.

 

[kefta]

Well to answer your question,there are only two ways out.

1.You can take the Xenophile route,and say that the African had its kindness trampled by the action of materializing it as a weakness by these power hungry lighter skinned races.

2.You can take the holistic approach and realize that perhaps the African knew that nature would eventually justify what was stolen from them.This also involves the spiritual/religious contexts of NOI,Hebrew israelites,African knowledge etc. that these lighter races are here only to give the experience of evil in a yin/yang type context to the innately loving personality of blacks who are incapable of such harsh evil as the lighter skinned races.

Sir, Do you have any written material on this "holistic approach"? I would like to read more on that...

 

[Mello Mello]

I just posted it:

http://www.bgol.us/board/showthread.php?t=519670

 

[Gammon]

What black civilization predates Egypt? I find it interesting that we a black people delve no further than whatever carrot the "white" people hang before us in acknowledging Egypt as a black civilization and thus blacks folks doing the same.

Remember that much of our history was either destroyed in war or orally remembered by griots and elders. Egypt is possibly the most ancient civilization that we know from written record. The only other civilizations that we have some evidence from are the Sumerians and other groups from the Mesopotamian areas.

@Ninjaspit, I wish it were holistic. However, black Egyptians had their history stolen from them and years later, the Moors voluntarily taught the whites our knowledge. Almost seems like we're doing this out of martyrdom instead of some greater good. Even Hannibal sacked Rome and let the Romans live, which led to the the Romans destroying Carthage later.

It begs the question, why are we so kind yet we never truly reap our own rewards? For every black empire and civilization, Arabs/Europeans/Jews/Nonblack people have tried their hardest to erase it from history. Sometimes it truly gets frustrating to see that we did so much but couldn't hold on to it because we were too kind or too friendly.

The only major difference between the black Moors and white Europeans is that when the whites were ruled by blacks, we taught and civilized them. The Renaissance would have never been possible with black Moors. However, as the white man rules over others, he makes sure that he has no "competition". He restricts our access to true knowledge and opportunity.

If only the Moors/Hannibal had thought the same way, there'd be no way that the white man would dominate much of the world today because Europe would have never developed or existed.

 

[malaki]

I buy the geography argument i.e. Guns Germs & Steel. Eurasia has an east-west orientation and native domesticatable animals. Africa has a North-South orientation (= no ability to use the same plants continentwide). Europeans had the tools necesssary to develop a civilization oriented towards conquest. Horses are a HUGE factor in why Europe conquered the world.

 

[kefta]

I buy the geography argument i.e. Guns Germs & Steel. Eurasia has an east-west orientation and native domesticatable animals. Africa has a North-South orientation (= no ability to use the same plants continentwide). Europeans had the tools necesssary to develop a civilization oriented towards conquest. Horses are a HUGE factor in why Europe conquered the world.

I thought it was ships (the navigation system), guns and of course DECEIT

 

[Gammon]

I buy the geography argument i.e. Guns Germs & Steel. Eurasia has an east-west orientation and native domesticatable animals. Africa has a North-South orientation (= no ability to use the same plants continentwide). Europeans had the tools necesssary to develop a civilization oriented towards conquest. Horses are a HUGE factor in why Europe conquered the world.

To an extent, I agree with the Guns, Germs and Steel arguments...but much of the knowledge from the sciences and war came from the Moors occupying Spain. That led to the Renaissance and gaining to the same knowledge they had during the Roman Empire. With the knowledge to even trade or properly fight wars, I don't think the Europeans would have had a chance. Between the Moors conquering Portugal and Spain as well as the Huns taking all of Eastern Europe, there was great geography but they had a lot of help from people who voluntarily helped them. No kindness or payment was given for that and look what has happened as a result.

But you're right...the whites pretty much got lucky. Black plague and invasions had them pretty much decimated before and during the Dark Ages. No knowledge, no growth.

 

[Give Me 3ft.]

good thread.

 

[malaki]

To an extent, I agree with the Guns, Germs and Steel arguments...but much of the knowledge from the sciences and war came from the Moors occupying Spain. That led to the Renaissance and gaining to the same knowledge they had during the Roman Empire. With the knowledge to even trade or properly fight wars, I don't think the Europeans would have had a chance. Between the Moors conquering Portugal and Spain as well as the Huns taking all of Eastern Europe, there was great geography but they had a lot of help from people who voluntarily helped them. No kindness or payment was given for that and look what has happened as a result.

But you're right...the whites pretty much got lucky. Black plague and invasions had them pretty much decimated before and during the Dark Ages. No knowledge, no growth.

knowledge circulated all through the ancient world in various ways. it is a mistake to cast this strictly through our American "black vs. white" lens.

 

[Artist Monk]

Getting interesting.

 

[kdub83]

Man when I see threads like this about our people, it really makes me sad to see how far our people have fallen, both self inflicted and not.

 

[Deacs]

What black civilization predates Egypt? I find it interesting that we a black people delve no further than whatever carrot the "white" people hang before us in acknowledging Egypt as a black civilization and thus blacks folks doing the same.

Unsure of the name, but Egypt was called two cities, the other half older and being in Nubia.

With Egypt, the whites recognize them as a separate people, pushing the Afro-Asiatic lineage, they won't go past this and acknowledge the rulers before hand for centuries and were the Pharaohs which commissioned the pyramids and other landmarks.

But that was their plan, to whitewash all of our accomplishments. Regardless of the flag of the 4 generals which conquered Spain, or the leader which led Muslims which happen to be Africans, which were called Moors which conquered their land. They don't acknowledge while Islam came with its language, that the sciences and arts of Africa wasn't transmitted through the written and spoken word. The don't acknowledge our capabilities, when we had Spain looking as a modern city with lights, cafes, and universities, as they sat in their barns called castles and shit in the corner. They don't acknowledge the filth which they clung to for the illiterate let the CHURCH tell them that it was wrong to wash off the dirt of God. They don't acknowledge that when the Spaniards went to South America and seen the natives, Africans were already there with our trade and our GOLD. They don't acknowledge the very fact their nautical knowledge which was transmitted to them by the Jews came from the Africans originally. They don't acknowledge the fact that African descendants were also in North America first, taken to Europe as slaves. They don't acknowledge the fact that our Queen Nzinga waged war successfully against those who tried to enslave us until she died.

The truth is... we don't need them to acknowledge these facts, we need to acknowledge them and keep them in our hearts, minds, and give this to our children. We lost due to language, kindness, and forgiveness. They took our sciences from Egypt, the Greeks corrupted it, the Romans created a religion, and then destroyed our libraries. We adopted a white man who became Pharaoh as a God whom they worshiped. We went from leaders to slaves through manipulation of greed. Where Caucasians at the time adopted a racial unity and nationalism, they took advantage of our lack of our tribalism, purchased war prisoners and enslaved them, had us think our society was primitive and adopted their ways, and continued to this day.

 

[SaKem]

What black civilization predates Egypt? I find it interesting that we a black people delve no further than whatever carrot the "white" people hang before us in acknowledging Egypt as a black civilization and thus blacks folks doing the same.

Nubia. is one.

 

[jwilliam85]

Good shit but what have you done for me lately

 

[Gammon]

knowledge circulated all through the ancient world in various ways. it is a mistake to cast this strictly through our American "black vs. white" lens.

So it's wrong to interpret history through a black or white lens...yet it's perfectly fine to claim African cultures such as the Moors and the Egyptians as black without regard to their culture? Not saying that you have done it but plenty of blacks have no problem laying claim to civilizations as "black" instead of realizing that race didn't exist back then. I agree that you can't racialize history, but much of our history is whitewashed rather than told in a truthful manner.

Unsure of the name, but Egypt was called two cities, the other half older and being in Nubia.

With Egypt, the whites recognize them as a separate people, pushing the Afro-Asiatic lineage, they won't go past this and acknowledge the rulers before hand for centuries and were the Pharaohs which commissioned the pyramids and other landmarks.

But that was their plan, to whitewash all of our accomplishments. Regardless of the flag of the 4 generals which conquered Spain, or the leader which led Muslims which happen to be Africans, which were called Moors which conquered their land. They don't acknowledge while Islam came with its language, that the sciences and arts of Africa wasn't transmitted through the written and spoken word. The don't acknowledge our capabilities, when we had Spain looking as a modern city with lights, cafes, and universities, as they sat in their barns called castles and shit in the corner. They don't acknowledge the filth which they clung to for the illiterate let the CHURCH tell them that it was wrong to wash off the dirt of God. They don't acknowledge that when the Spaniards went to South America and seen the natives, Africans were already there with our trade and our GOLD. They don't acknowledge the very fact their nautical knowledge which was transmitted to them by the Jews came from the Africans originally. They don't acknowledge the fact that African descendants were also in North America first, taken to Europe as slaves. They don't acknowledge the fact that our Queen Nzinga waged war successfully against those who tried to enslave us until she died.

The truth is... we don't need them to acknowledge these facts, we need to acknowledge them and keep them in our hearts, minds, and give this to our children. We lost due to language, kindness, and forgiveness. They took our sciences from Egypt, the Greeks corrupted it, the Romans created a religion, and then destroyed our libraries. We adopted a white man who became Pharaoh as a God whom they worshiped. We went from leaders to slaves through manipulation of greed. Where Caucasians at the time adopted a racial unity and nationalism, they took advantage of our lack of our tribalism, purchased war prisoners and enslaved them, had us think our society was primitive and adopted their ways, and continued to this day.

Nothing but truth. I just asked these questions because I wonder how we had power and lost it. At one time, the Mali Empire was the richest in the known world when it was ruled by Mansa Musa. Just like the fall of the Roman Empire, I wonder how our African empires fell. I feel that if we don't know what happened, we may repeat the same mistakes even after experiencing the consequences of being too kind to others who don't have our best interests at heart.

 

[malaki]

I buy the idea that there were older civilizations thousands of years before egypt. they just left less of a historical record or it was destroyed in the time since. some of it remains like those undersea pyramids offshore of japan. I wouldn't be surprised if travel between continents was done a lot back then. also the rise in sea level via end of the ice age meant a lot of coastal settlements and cities were destroyed.

again "black" and "white" are modern concepts....

 

[kefta]

Good shit but what have you done for me lately

C/S...that's why i previously wrote, "let's not focus so much on what our ancestors did or did not do... Why? because if what we had back then was very powerful, then racism/white supremacy would not be in place today. Our "ancestors" were caught off guard. There is little to look back to, that is more powerful than the global, national and local system of racism/white supremacy. Now, one of the things that "we" need to do is, "Lets use LOGIC as our leader to replace racism/white supremacy with a system of JUSTICE.

It's good to look at history but only for the right purpose.

oNe!!!

 

[Chitownheadbusa]

Why is it when Black folks or Non-Black folks have discussions about Black folks prominent History...they only talk about Egypt?

Im not trying to knock what was accomplished there...but im just saying.
Talking about Egypt when discussion Black History is very cliche imo.

There much much much more to Black History than just Egypt, MLK and George Washington Carver and his Peanut's.

 

[Mello Mello]

I think what needs to happen to regain some type of prominent recognition in the world is to pick up the mantle where brother Malcolm left off. Becoming international. Malcolm was a strong supporter of all Africans in the diaspora making allegiances in some form under the organization of African Unity starting a new wave of pan-Africanism. We are spread out all over the world without a support base. Put cultural differences aside we could establish some new form of black nationalism. Starting with us brothas here as leaders of the free-world.

That could be the evolution of a new black dominance and re-invent a new way to be black.

 

[Deacs]

So it's wrong to interpret history through a black or white lens...yet it's perfectly fine to claim African cultures such as the Moors and the Egyptians as black without regard to their culture? Not saying that you have done it but plenty of blacks have no problem laying claim to civilizations as "black" instead of realizing that race didn't exist back then. I agree that you can't racialize history, but much of our history is whitewashed rather than told in a truthful manner.

Yeah, simply for the fact that Africans didn't see race, that's why it wasn't polarized and others have done so. Under that mindset, if all people are cosmic beings and connected to one another, then skin color held less meaning. Also during that time frame, the Caucasian wasn't on the scene, the first alien which Africa seen were Asians according to Chancellor Williams. First they settled near us, then intermingled, then took African women as wives and concubines [depending on the social situation], then started to breed a generation of mulatto.

It wasn't until the language change, which was after the Greeks took our knowledge and corrupted it into a new ideal that race and the superior/inferior roles start to formerly exhibit.

Nothing but truth. I just asked these questions because I wonder how we had power and lost it. At one time, the Mali Empire was the richest in the known world when it was ruled by Mansa Musa. Just like the fall of the Roman Empire, I wonder how our African empires fell. I feel that if we don't know what happened, we may repeat the same mistakes even after experiencing the consequences of being too kind to others who don't have our best interests at heart.

In time, everything falls, its never one solid reason... one thing is known, outside forces corrupted our thought process, and since transmission of those outside forces came with religion [Islam and Christianity], which in turn corrupted how we viewed the cosmic [it turned into US vs Them mentality], which further deepened the divide we naturally had as a tribal folk... it could be anyone's guess.


History is there to ensure that you don't repeat the same mistakes, because it is insanity to perform the same actions and believe a different result will happen... hence the history book and main themes of our demise and current state. Time cannot be reversed, but a seed could be sowed. The information is there for pride, for restoring pride and our roots to the land of our Mother... and literally our god. What is difficult is the fact that the diaspora is suffering from a devious trick, we now have Western thought processes, which are the thought processes of Europeans. We no longer maintain the diet of our people, think like them, worship like them, or think like them. Our language is similar to them, for this is how we were raised for generations, similar to the breaking of the primitive lupines and the creation of the dog species.

This is the wound and reason for self hate, for the language itself was created to hate all which is not Caucasians. The reversal of the hate to ourselves would be to hate them, but that is another byproduct of our thought process. Racism is a Western invention which is embedded, for those in power it is called nationalism, race pride, whatever... but, you could be conscious to why you are angry, the crimes which you are angry for, and seek justice for those. Make that be your rally cry, make your pride in your past replace the language which they made you drink like the kool aid of Jim Jones, love the good black men and women around you and forgo those who are still in love with their shackles, and evolve from there.

 

[Gammon]

C/S...that's why i previously wrote, "let's not focus so much on what our ancestors did or did not do... Why? because if what we had back then was very powerful, then racism/white supremacy would not be in place today. Our "ancestors" were caught off guard. There is little to look back to, that is more powerful than the global, national and local system of racism/white supremacy. Now, one of the things that "we" need to do is, "Lets use LOGIC as our leader to replace racism/white supremacy with a system of JUSTICE.

It's good to look at history but only for the right purpose.

oNe!!!

Kefta, I agree with finding out the right way to apply justice and feel that it's fully possible to do so. However, I do feel that much is to be learned from history so we don't repeat the same mistakes. Also, we can truly blend the elements that worked in the past with newer and modern approaches to not only ensure justice for all but continued prosperity. We must recognize not only the white supremacism that threatens our progress at every turn but the black "white supremacism" who sways and deters our progress for his own gains from whites.

Just like any empire and civilizations had enemies externally and internally, black people worldwide have those same issues.