Mayweather vs. Mosley-Who Wins?
- Thread starter TJervey
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You see, the part about the legendary skills is where I'm not convinced. If he is able to remain untouchable against the top guys in his division, then fine. But until he does that, his legendary skills are just legend IMO.
Also, Floyd has faced guys his own size. But I said fighters his own size that were fresh and at least sometimes undefeated. The guy that comes closest to that competition was Zab Judah and even he was just coming off of a fight where he lost to a bum and almost got knocked out too. Even that Zab fight was like three years ago and before that the last fresh guy he fought that was his own size was Castillo back in 2002
Floyd's true current level of talent and ability is really unknown. Let him prove his so called defensive "wizardry" against complete fighters with a decent offensive game. There are plenty out there.
well castillo wasn't even top 10 back when they fought. ricky was the last top fighter he fought. but then again he decided to fight the unified 140 champ at 147 where he looked like shit at. his win against ricky would have been better if it was at 140.
I agree, but Floyd only has maybe 3 fights that could have any impact... Mosley, Pacquiao and Williams. I would love for him to fight Cotto, Clottey, and etc, but if he wins it does nothing for him.
I used to think that. But to me PBF can make a big impact if he moves up to 154. He used to say "154 and down I'm cuttin." but he really has not played in 154. That is where he makes his history. 147 is npt for him. He had his chance to make WW his division and he decided not to fight the best. Fighting Shane is fun for us fans but it probably says little if he wins.
PBF vs Paul is the best fight for him.
Castillo/Maruez/De La(old or not)>>>>>>Hatton.
When a fighter doesn't fight in their weight class it is tough to judge them. I would love to have seen JMM and PBF fight at 135 or 140 if JMM cold show he coul compete there. Hatton was the man that beat the man (Kostya another fighter pbf ducked) in 140. Hatton biggest win was also greater than any fight PBF has ever had. Castillo fight with PBF was retarded. Castillo won the first fight. Which I though was possible, but that was more base on his style matching up well. Castillo was no at the level of PBF. Which was apparent the second fight. The oscar fight was the worst ppv fight ever. Disgusting!
What do you mean Castillo wasn't top 10? Didn't they fight for Castillo's title? Anyway, I agree with the Hatton assessment. Hatton barely made it out alive against Collazo at 147 and even said after that he didn't belong at 147. I can't really give Mayweather any credit for beating Hatton at 147. At least Mayweather did what he was supposed to do and stopped him but that's about it.
I definitely liked Gatti's fights and to feel like just because a Boxer is not as technically sound as others makes them a Bum fighters is not really smart. While I can sit back and greatly appreciate the technical brilliance of Floyd and BHop, the one thing that I think Floyd hasn't shown is a different dimension or adaptability. That being said, I believe it's because he is so far superior in the technical department that he hasn't had to show a different dimension that he very well may have and I believe this fight with Shane should it come off will to a degree force Floyd at least at times to fight at a different pace. While I am a student of the game and a real boxing fan, especially at a live fight, I definitely am more 'Entertained' watching a Gatti/Ward than a Mayweather/Marquez. There is nothing like watching to fighters trying to break each others will! Plus, even though Hagler was a technically sound fighter he is most readily remembered due to his War with Hearns, which I still believe is one of the two greatest wars of all time. I probably wouldn't go see PBF fight live unless he was fighting a fighter that would create some excitement (Shane/Manny/Williams, type). To me, Floyd is more of a watch at home on the Big Screen style as it is really hard to appreciate him live. Similar to this BHop/RJJ fight...I for damn sure wont be going to see it but I may order it just because I believe BHop isn't going to try to box him, but is going to try at a measured pace to take his head off!!!!
That's just my two cents.
This is where I disagree. I dont think that are PLENTY out there that have the ability to beat him. However, the few that could give him problems (Mosley, possible Pacman, Williams (hard to really include him as he is not really a WW),... we need to see those fights. It is difficult to question his defensive brilliance. Not just physically with his technical skill, dude is probably one of the most disciplined boxer I have ever seen. Dude sticks to the script...figures boxers out...and takes over the later rounds of all his fights. People tend to overlook just how damn intelligent of a boxer he is..he doesnt give you an opening to beat him. He doesnt get baited into slugfest..and if something you are doing is working..he finds a way to neutralize it..
I dont think Mosley even has a chance to OUTBOX Floyd. I think, if the speed is still there, he has the ability to hurt Floyd with a real power punch... the problem is does Mosley still have the speed to land those punches...
The only reason why i think Pacman has a chance is because I want to see if the Zab fight was a fluke (the early rounds) or if Floyd really struggles with a fast southpaw (who wont run out of gas in the late rounds or who completely lack a boxing IQ like Zab)
yep..same thing I said...
here is a pound for pound list for 2002 two months before pbf fought castillo
http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2002/02/24/spt_pound-for-pound.html
I got no reason to lie
I aprreciate you at least listening to my pov.
Exactly. That is why I would LOVE to see him fight Williams.
I dont even think Shane..now or 6 years ago, could force Floyd to change his style dramatically. Shane just has ALL the tools to beat him...but not really by making Floyd change his style..Floyd would just be forced to engage a bit more.
I have seen Floyd adapt to fighters as well during fights. He figures fighters out very well.
However, Williams would require a complete change of gameplan in my opinion...and that is where you really see what someone is made of....
I don't know if there are a lot of WW that can even give Floyd a competitive fight, but I think in this fight, the focus being totally on what Shane has left is displaced. While I believe there are genuine questions about Shane, to me the true question is, how will Floyd handle the pressure and power of Mosley. While Floyd has beaten some Dudes with big punches, I don't believe he's ever fought someone with the combination of Power/Speed that Shane has. Even if he's lost a step, he still is to me the greatest threat that Floyd as faced due to the power issue. He has one-punch knockout power, something that even DLH didn't have at the time PBF fought him. I think that Floyd so far more superior to the other WW (outside of Manny who I believe has the same 'advantages' in this match up that Shane does, Power/Speed), he really does not have anything else to prove once he fights these two.
I also believe Shane is going to come into this fight the way he did the first DLH fight, with a chip on his shoulder and something to prove. Plus, I believe the notion that Floyd can't hurt Shane is untrue. While Floyd is not a power puncher, he is damn accurate and his reflexes are sick! A perfectly place punch (on the temple/behind the ear) and short circuit a fighter too, and while I don't expect Floyd to be able to knock Shane out, if Shane decides to fight too recklessly, he may be caught with some precise shit and get dropped!
That's odd I agreed with everything you said.Because Floyd relies on timing to sit back in the pocket and pot shot fighters, I don't really see him fighting Williams primarily Dude to Williams style more than the size difference. I believe Williams style of fighting as well as his lack of respect for Floyds power would have him in PBF's face the whole time, and to try and pot shot a Dude through 100 plus punches per round from distance with the reach advantage is like Boxing suicide....Don't see no way in hell this fight happens though, even if PW makes WW limit...
I agree. Ive been saying for years that Mosley could beat Floyd. This is the fight I have wanted to see for years. However, Im still not convinced by the Margarito fight. Margarito is just the type of fighter to make someone look better than they are...because is flat footed and a bit slow. The issue is going to be speed. The power is not going to mean anything without the speed because Floyd doesnt get hit flush much...so if the speed has declined by any real measurable rate, he is not going to land solid power punches.
I have actually been on record on here saying that not only do I think Mosley could beat Floyd, I thought he could knock him out... but at some point, a guy is going to lose his handspeed....
Agreed on the part about Floyd and his accuracy but Shane has a SUPER chin and I would be completely shocked if Floyd manages to really hurt him...
Because Floyd relies on timing to sit back in the pocket and pot shot fighters, I don't really see him fighting Williams primarily Dude to Williams style more than the size difference. I believe Williams style of fighting as well as his lack of respect for Floyds power would have him in PBF's face the whole time, and to try and pot shot a Dude through 100 plus punches per round from distance with the reach advantage is like Boxing suicide....Don't see no way in hell this fight happens though, even if PW makes WW limit...
Exactly... I would just like to see how Floyd would deal with the sheer VOLUME of punches that Williams throws for 12 damn rounds... because that fight would go 12 rounds...
Because Floyd relies on timing to sit back in the pocket and pot shot fighters, I don't really see him fighting Williams primarily Dude to Williams style more than the size difference. I believe Williams style of fighting as well as his lack of respect for Floyds power would have him in PBF's face the whole time, and to try and pot shot a Dude through 100 plus punches per round from distance with the reach advantage is like Boxing suicide....Don't see no way in hell this fight happens though, even if PW makes WW limit...
First Williams has to fight Martinez again. I think Martinez expose a big hole in Williams. Floyd might be able to follow Martinez game plan and beat Williams. The difference is that Floyd won't get tired. It will still be a tough fight because of William's reach, but Williams is just throwing an onslaught. There is no real strategy or defense if he misses.
If Martinez doesnt run out of gas, he could have won that fight. I would love to see a rematch there.
or maybe pbf can move up and fight Sergio and the winner meet Paul. Paul got the win and he can sit on that win. That probably is what he rather do while looking for a big fight somewhere else.
True on both points, but also, one has to consider, Martinez is probably one of the most underrated fighters in the game...I actually started a thread on that fight indicating how Martinez could pull an upset. Also, I give PW some slack because he had a short camp in training for Martinez, and to have to fight a fighter of Martinez's caliber on short notice is a recipe for doom. I don't see Floyd fighting him like Martinez primarily because they have different styles. They are both counter punchers but Martinez give a LOT more movement than Floyd does. Floyd relies on reflexes and body angles for defense more...which I believe will be a problem against a puncher with Williams work rate as well as his huge advantage in height and reach. I definitely see PBF getting tired, tired not gassed, as he will have to exert more energy than ever before fighting someone who will throw more punches than he has ever seen and hit him more than he has ever been hit. Still a tossup to me though, can call a winner in that fight...I do see Floyd pulling out a close one against Shane though.
I compare this fight for Shane more like the first DLH fight than anything else. I don't even use Margarito as a measuring stick of how Shane will fare against Floyd...Margarito was tailor made for Shane, a guy who comes in straight and throws punches with no head movement. A hell of a win however, but nothing to gauge this fight on. I don't believe you have to be hurt to get knocked out...I've seen my share of balance knockouts where the fighter just couldn't get their feet under them even though they weren't hurt too bad. Floyd's accuracy could produce this type of result if Shane is to reckless.
Floyd isn't moving up. Like I said before the nigga has to maintain muscle mass just to fight at welter. Floyd was under weight when he fought Oscar and he could not hurt De La at all. Niggas talk about Manny hurting that dude, but Oscar came down a ridiculous amount of weight.
Niggas talk all this shit about Floyd fighting guys his own size, but really the only other Welter that's really his size is Manny. Most of these guys at welter walk around at 160+. I watched Corrales v Clottey the other day and the night of the fight, Corrales weighted in at 160 and Clottey was 170... in a welterweight fight
.
I was also saying the same shit BEFORE the fight... Martinez is mad slept on and also had a loss on his record that was bullshit where he got robbed.
I don't know if there are PLENTY out there that can beat him. I said there are plenty fighters that are his size and fresh. I'm not convinced that Floyd just runs through everyone easily because he hasn't been showing "legendary" skills against top competition. Even Ivan Robinson looked like Sugar Ray Robinson when he fought Gatti.
I see your point, but I don't think Floyd will have a problem having to dance a bit. The nigga's conditioning is insane, but you might be right..
I didn't know you were referring to top 10 pound for pound. IMO the pound for pound list doesn't matter much. Even in that link it states Mayweather was going straight to top at lightweight by figthing Castillo. In other words, Castillo was at the top of the division. Can't really ask for much more than that.
I'll admit I was sleeping that night cause Williams is a freak and I start to by all that avoided shit... but that nigga need to get some defense and quick cause in my opinion Matinez could have knocked Williams' block off if he didn't slow down in the mid rounds.
That's what I'm talking about. There's a lot of talk about Floyd's adaptability, technical superiority and defensive genius but there are still questions to be asked. Questions like, would Floyd try to potshot Williams? How would Floyd adapt to Williams' volume punching, size, and power?
Sweet Pea fought against so many top rated guys that I would have felt very confident that he would have found a way to beat a Williams. I would have felt confident because Pea's defense was already proven against a bunch of bad ass dudes.
Floyd's ability to adapt against Jesus Chavez, Carlos Hernandez, Baldomir, Corley's bummy ass, Gatti, and Mitchell, does not impress me in the slightest. His adaptability against Castillo did (even though it took him a rematch to get it right) and his defense against Corrales was impressive as well.
Yep. It was clearly a conditioning issue for Martinez.. but Williams will do that shit to most boxers throwing 120 punches every damn round
But I was fully expecting that type of fight....Also....it shows that Williams should be VERY careful about going up too quickly in weight because a larger boxer with real power would put him to sleep..
Are you saying that Floyd is not a master of true defense but uses his God given above average reflexes and quickness to move out of the way of punches? I've heard that Roy Jones' defense was bad for this very reason although Jones rarely got touched for about ten years which is an irony in itself.
I seriously don't see PW having as many problems with him in the rematch because I believe he will fight a lil smarter. While I don't see a blowout, I believe Williams believed his hype, and went into the fight believe he was invincible, fighting a smaller dude, etc. sort of like his first Quintana fight. I believe he will fight taller, use his reach more, and pull out a unanimous decision. I do believe at this point he needs to either change trainers or add a more defensive minded trainer to the team as he definitely needs to work on that part of his game a lot.
You alluded to something in an earlier post I think. I think it was you....talking about how floyd relies on his shouldroll-reflexes to avoid a lot of shots but that probably wouldnt work so well against someone like Williams.
Although Sweat Pea had RIDICULOUS reflexes.even better reflexes than Floyd IMHO.. he definitely was much more mobile in terms of lateral movement around the ring....and Williams would have been throwing a bunch of punches at straight air from a distance where I think Floyd would give Williams much more of a target (i guess) if he didnt change his style..
Floyd has worked on using his God given gifts to perfect HIS style of defensive posture. To say that he is not one of the best all time in regards to defense is not smart. He definitely is an all time great primarily because it is very difficult to perfect his style of defense. The closest fighter in this generation to have this style down pat was a prime Chris Byrd. Dude was fun to watch because he was a phone booth-but you can't hit me type fighter.
The difference between Floyd and RJJ is Roy never really worked on the fundamentals of the game, so when he reflexes started to slip, those split second misses or fraction of an inch misses started connecting on his ass!!!! Floyd is different in that I truly believe he could fight at a high level for a very long time because he is so damned fundamentally sound...regardless of how I feel about his fight selection, etc. I do believe it is going to take a fighter fighting a damn near perfect fight to beat him.
Yep. It was clearly a conditioning issue for Martinez.. but Williams will do that shit to most boxers throwing 120 punches every damn round
Also....it shows that Williams should be VERY careful about going up too quickly in weight because a larger boxer with real power would put him to sleep..
I think Williams will have his way with most cats in the Welter-Middle range. His chin is great in My opinion. Fuck Margarito... Martinez made sure that there weren't much doubt. I think I got to second guess the PBF thing, cause not only was Martinez countering the fuck out of Williams, Martinez SLOWED Williams down by hurting him. It wasn't by much, but I can't see any welter hurting Williams.