Mayweather vs. Mosley-Who Wins?

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

Margarito hasn't fought at 154 since losing to Santo's

typos are that funny? lol, you are much funnier. I think my point was clear. but if you followed the train of thought instead of being a groupie and pouncing on it then it would have been clear to you. dude, put me on ignore.

 

[Zeferino]

Actually that was a typo. I meant 147. If you read I was making the point you couldn't determine what shane was about at 147. Which is why I said varagas and myorga. The reason shane beat antonio was cause he fought him at 147. To me the shane at 154 sucked ass. He would just load up on punches instead of use his vast skills. lol, the 154 was a typo dude to beer and typing on my iphone. still i stand by my point. shane at 154 isn't the shane I bother watching. At 147 that is a different matter all together.

I agree with the Shane looking crappy at 154 assessment but more particularly with the Shane looking crappy at 154 during his use of the Balco products. Shane looked physically shot against DLH and Winky and even in the interview after the Winky fight said he felt like he had a monkey on his back. He seemed unable to explain the physical fail. IMO, it was much more than just Winky's style and I thought that even before the Balco scandal broke. I thought Shane just did not look himself physically. He looked sluggish. He was throwing one shot at a time and seemed incapable of throwing the fluid combinations that he used to throw at lightweight and welter. I think the PED's and the weight training stiffened him up which is not good for boxing.

After the Balco problem and when he was supposedly off of it, he seemed less bulky and was fluidly throwing combinations again as seen in the first and second fights with Vargas.

 

[Alaskanredman]

another thread high jacked by the bullshit. Why would Shane or Margarito want to fight each other at a weight class that neither of them have a great record at? So we are just ignoring Margarito being exposed as a cheat and credit Shane's dominate win to the weight? Are we also going to ignore the fact that Margarito only seemed to hit hard in the later rounds in both the Williams fight and Cotto fight?

 

[Zeferino]

another thread high jacked by the bullshit. Why would Shane or Margarito want to fight each other at a weight class that neither of them have a great record at? So we are just ignoring Margarito being exposed as a cheat and credit Shane's dominate win to the weight? Are we also going to ignore the fact that Margarito only seemed to hit hard in the later rounds in both the Williams fight and Cotto fight?

You don't think that Margarito seemingly hitting harder in the later rounds in both fights had anything to do with his opponents slowing down in those rounds? Had Cotto not slowed down and been able to maintain that beautiful hit and move pace that he employed for most of the initial rounds, plaster or not, Margarito would not have been able to touch him. As soon as Cotto slowed down, Margarito started tagging him with those slow motion punches. With Williams, it seemed that it just took Margarito a while to figure Williams out and Williams also slowed down in the later rounds as most humans do.

 

[Alaskanredman]

Again another point-less argument.... Slowing down may equal landing more punches but it doesn't mean every punch you land will visibly hurt your opponent.

 

[Zeferino]

Again another point-less argument.... Slowing down may equal landing more punches but it doesn't mean every punch you land will visibly hurt your opponent.

Well of course if the guy slows down enough for you to hit him more often it's going to hurt more when you hit him. Are you ignoring the fact that Margarito could barely lay a glove on Cotto before Cotto slowed down just to push your own pointless argument?

Regardless, I too agree that Margarito probably had the rock wraps on when he fought Cotto. I also agree that if Cotto had not slowed down, he would not have been in the way to take those shots that he eventually got stopped with.

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

I am a different type of dude. I can't call Antonio a cheat on every fight based on one time him being exposed for it. Nor will I say shane didn't perform well cause of peds just because he said he used them once during his time at 154. I will look at that for what I know it to be. I just can't play that hypothetical stuff. I think it was more about shane not being able to be shane at that heavier weight. I can see that as being more logical than him being on drugs each 154 fight. As for Antonio, I don't think he used padded gloves in all his fights. Until it is proven otherwise I just keep it moving. Antonio has a agressive style that bother people cause he wouldn't back down. He showed his ass at 147 and looked like ass at 154. Weight was a major factor in both guys career.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

I agree with the Shane looking crappy at 154 assessment but more particularly with the Shane looking crappy at 154 during his use of the Balco products. Shane looked physically shot against DLH and Winky and even in the interview after the Winky fight said he felt like he had a monkey on his back. He seemed unable to explain the physical fail. IMO, it was much more than just Winky's style and I thought that even before the Balco scandal broke. I thought Shane just did not look himself physically. He looked sluggish. He was throwing one shot at a time and seemed incapable of throwing the fluid combinations that he used to throw at lightweight and welter. I think the PED's and the weight training stiffened him up which is not good for boxing.

After the Balco problem and when he was supposedly off of it, he seemed less bulky and was fluidly throwing combinations again as seen in the first and second fights with Vargas.

I don't think the PEDs hurt him as much as his moving up to a higher weight class hurt him. Even if he moved up naturally, it's unlikely there would have been any different. He would either have to gain the weight in muscle or fat and would lose something: speed and/or power. He's only been shown to have used PEDs during the De La Hoya fight not the Wright or Mayorga fights.

I think I said it earlier but I'll chime in one more time on Margarito and his gloves.
I don't see anything to say he had padded gloves against Paul Williams. Williams took some good shots late in that fight and still won the 12th rd like the previous 4, which Margs won, never happened. He wasn't marked or bruised up like Cotto was after his fight with Margarito. I suspect, but have no knowledge, that he did cheat Cotto and that may have been the first time though I'm leery of the second Cintron fight. I think he was Cintron's head and would have won anyway but he smashed that dude, who was looking sharp going in.

 

[Zeferino]

I don't think the PEDs hurt him as much as his moving up to a higher weight class hurt him. Even if he moved up naturally, it's unlikely there would have been any different. He would either have to gain the weight in muscle or fat and would lose something: speed and/or power. He's only been shown to have used PEDs during the De La Hoya fight not the Wright or Mayorga fights.

I think I said it earlier but I'll chime in one more time on Margarito and his gloves.
I don't see anything to say he had padded gloves against Paul Williams. Williams took some good shots late in that fight and still won the 12th rd like the previous 4, which Margs won, never happened. He wasn't marked or bruised up like Cotto was after his fight with Margarito. I suspect, but have no knowledge, that he did cheat Cotto and that may have been the first time though I'm leery of the second Cintron fight. I think he was Cintron's head and would have won anyway but he smashed that dude, who was looking sharp going in.

The whole PED debate we've been having is just one big ball of speculation for the most part because in reality we're discussing things that we don't know about. In order to be personally consistent with myself as I do strongly believe in innocent until proven guilty, I will state the following. I would not be surprised if it was determined that Margarito used rock wraps against Cintron and Cotto and even Paul Williams. However, I would be surprised if he was doing it back when he was going life and death with Antonio Diaz and the Santos guy.

I also would not be surprised if Mosley was found to have been using Balco products even during the Winky fights because the Winky fight was just a few months after the Oscar fight and Mosley just seem slow and sluggish and effectively incapable of throwing more than two punch combinations. However, I could be seeing Shane's overuse of the weight training as weight training has always been looked down upon for a reason by most trainers. Even Shane's father was opposed to Mosley hitting the weights so hard since from way back in the day when Mosley had just arrived to 147. Shane's downfall may have been enhancing his weight training with PED's making him even more stiff. As a matter of fact, Vargas also had that stiff robotic look when he fought Oscar.

When Mosley fought Mayorga, he looked loose with his hands but just a little uncomfortable with Mayorga's mix of wildness and then sudden use of boxing technique. Boxer's tend to just see the wild slugging and seem to sleep on Mayorga.

 

[Alaskanredman]

I don't think the PEDs hurt him as much as his moving up to a higher weight class hurt him. Even if he moved up naturally, it's unlikely there would have been any different. He would either have to gain the weight in muscle or fat and would lose something: speed and/or power. He's only been shown to have used PEDs during the De La Hoya fight not the Wright or Mayorga fights.

I think I said it earlier but I'll chime in one more time on Margarito and his gloves.
I don't see anything to say he had padded gloves against Paul Williams. Williams took some good shots late in that fight and still won the 12th rd like the previous 4, which Margs won, never happened. He wasn't marked or bruised up like Cotto was after his fight with Margarito. I suspect, but have no knowledge, that he did cheat Cotto and that may have been the first time though I'm leery of the second Cintron fight. I think he was Cintron's head and would have won anyway but he smashed that dude, who was looking sharp going in.

I will say Shane has had a couple of things working against him.

1) Weight: the more you move up the greater strain you put on your natural speed and agility.

2) His opponents: Oscar is a smart fighter with a great technique. If you made the mistake of thinking Shane wasn't going a tougher the second go round with Oscar your tripping. I don't care if Forrest's reach, height and the way he fights tall, would have given Shane problems at 147. Winky is just hard for anyone to beat.

3) Shane's fight style: The power punching looks cool and can fuck a lot of guys up, but the problem for Shane became that he was moving up and he wasn't hurting cats like he used too. Shane should have adapted to a more technical style but he had too much faith in that shit.

4) Age: Cats forget that Shane is old and the majority of these fights were in his thirties. With age you lose speed, strength, conditioning and agility. There is no amount of training that will stop this shit and after you hit 30 you are on the decline especially if you are fighting tough fights.

About the Margarito v. Williams thing I'm mainly focusing on the 11th round. Margarito landed some shots and Williams was making the same faces that I saw him make when he was fighting Martinez. He had surprise/confused look on his face like where the hell did this shit come from. Early in the fight William was eating the punches like lunchables. In the 12th round, Williams just threw an ass load of punches to keep the nigga off him.

 

[Zeferino]

I will say Shane has had a couple of things working against him.

1) Weight: the more you move up the greater strain you put on your natural speed and agility.

2) His opponents: Oscar is a smart fighter with a great technique. If you made the mistake of thinking Shane wasn't going a tougher the second go round with Oscar your tripping. I don't care if Forrest's reach, height and the way he fights tall, would have given Shane problems at 147. Winky is just hard for anyone to beat.

3) Shane's fight style: The power punching looks cool and can fuck a lot of guys up, but the problem for Shane became that he was moving up and he wasn't hurting cats like he used too. Shane should have adapted to a more technical style but he had too much faith in that shit.

4) Age: Cats forget that Shane is old and the majority of these fights were in his thirties. With age you lose speed, strength, conditioning and agility. There is no amount of training that will stop this shit and after you hit 30 you are on the decline especially if you are fighting tough fights.

About the Margarito v. Williams thing I'm mainly focusing on the 11th round. Margarito landed some shots and Williams was making the same faces that I saw him make when he was fighting Martinez. He had surprise/confused look on his face like where the hell did this shit come from. Early in the fight William was eating the punches like lunchables. In the 12 rounds, Williams just threw an ass load of punches to keep the nigga off him.

I don't recall the 11th round and it's hard to say what was going through Williams' mind when he made those faces. He could have been trying to hold back a sudden diarrhea attack for all we know. Even Carlos Quintana seemed to rock or at least stun Williams in their first fight. Only Margarito knows whether he cheated in that fight but I wouldn't be surprised given the physical challenge Williams represented.

 

[Rick Ronson]

stfu most of you niggas arguin never stepped in a ring

 

[TJervey]

http://www.mlive.com/mayweather/index.ssf/2010/02/floyd_mayweather_shane_mosleys.html

Floyd is really going in on Shane...might just get inside his head with this shit here!

 

[Alaskanredman]

http://www.mlive.com/mayweather/index.ssf/2010/02/floyd_mayweather_shane_mosleys.html

Floyd is really going in on Shane...might just get inside his head with this shit here!

Damn that shit was rough....