MANAFORT Trial #2 thread : ongoing, start date 9/17.. [UPDATE 9/13: PLEA DEAL MADE]

Amajorfucup

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LMAO ...."But the Russians own Manafort. No way he takes a plea deal. He will be a dead man if he does."...


Welp
You can actually take a plea without cooperating.
Yeah. I bet the cooperating agree would be sealed if it exists. It’s hard to imagine a scenario where he gets a deal without some form of cooperation.
Maybe. Maybe not. Hes giving up a shit ton of cash and assets so he may not be talking much.
 

Spectrum

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Paulie like

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Trump like

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Spectrum

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That article doesnt know the details of the plea agreement nor the nature of "Cooperating" being done.

He's extensively cooperating. The more I'm reading the clearer that has become. What we don't know if there is anything that's excluded.. like "excluding his time on the Trump campaign". I don't think we'll know because Meuller would likely not want to have that released. We probably will only be able to assume based on how Trump responds on Twitter. If he's cooperating directly against Trump, he'll need to step out of the JDA with Trump. Trump would then start to attack Manafort.
 

Spectrum

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That article doesnt know the details of the plea agreement nor the nature of "Cooperating" being done.

I have a difficult time believe this is true as Mueller would have no incentive to allow it unless Manafort was giving up some other major figure in another way.

 

Spectrum

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https://www.vox.com/2018/9/14/17860648/paul-manafort-plea-deal-cooperating-mueller-trump

Manafort is cooperating with Mueller. 8 legal experts explain what that means for Trump.
Spoiler alert: it’s not good.
By Sean Illing@seanillingsean.illing@vox.com Sep 14, 2018, 1:03pm EDTSHARE
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Former Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort leaves the E. Barrett Prettyman United States Courthouse following a hearing on April 4, 2018, in Washington, DC.
Photo by Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images
Paul Manafort has finally flipped.

The president’s former campaign manager pleaded guilty in court on Friday to two felonies: conspiracy against the United States and conspiracy to obstruct justice. Part of Manafort’s plea deal includes an agreement to cooperate with special counsel Robert Mueller’s Russia probe — including offering interviews and briefings to the special counsel’s office, handing over documents, and testifying in other court proceedings.

It’s not clear why Manafort agreed to flip after a year of refusing to do so. Nor do we know the extent of Manafort’s cooperation, or what he actually knows about Trump and any possible collusion with Russia. But Manafort’s cooperation is still a big deal, since he was one of the first people Mueller targeted.

So how worried should Trump be? And how does Manafort’s cooperation impact the Mueller probe? To find out, I reached out to eight legal experts.

Their full responses, edited for clarity and style, are below.

Lisa Kern Griffin, law professor, Duke University
A plea agreement at this stage makes a great deal of sense for the Mueller team and for Manafort. Both benefit from avoiding the imminent trial, and the development was anticipated. What comes as more of a surprise is the cooperation component of the agreement. There is but a small cast of characters, with the president at the center, against whom Manafort could “successfully cooperate” with information prosecutors would value.

Perhaps Manafort has again hedged his bets, hoping to mitigate his situation or precipitate a pardon. Perhaps the cooperation he has promised will prove dishonest or incomplete. But he has at least indicated that he can offer damaging evidence, or there would be no cooperation deal at all. That does not augur well for the president.

Diane Marie Amann, law professor, University of Georgia
The Manafort shoe has dropped. Today’s plea agreement, aimed at resolving the two federal criminal cases against Manafort, hinges on his full cooperation with Mueller’s investigation. At the plea hearing, that cooperation was said to encompass briefing prosecutors, producing documents, and testifying in other proceedings.

Those proceedings well might go to the heart of Mueller’s inquiry into, to quote the terms of Mueller’s mandate, “any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump.”

Given Manafort’s long association with Trump — which includes serving as presidential campaign manager and attending a 2016 Trump Tower meeting with certain Russians — Manafort’s cooperation promises to be a major boost to Mueller’s investigation.

I’ve written before that such advance knowledge would be the key step in establishing felony conspiracy against the United States.

The second is whether Manafort played a role in changing the Republican platform on Russia and Ukraine during the campaign, and what, if anything, Trump may have known about it. That might be part of a quid pro quo case. And of course, there may be a lot more Manafort can tell prosecutors about Trump’s involvement. I doubt that prosecutors would make any cooperation agreement without full cooperation and without cooperation on the core Russia investigation.

Ric Simmons, law professor, Ohio State University
It is not yet clear the extent and nature of the cooperation that Manafort will provide to the special counsel’s office, but the plea agreement is still a major step forward for the investigation of the president. Unlike the earlier convictions for tax evasions, these guilty pleas to charges such as conspiracy against the United States and conspiracy to obstruct justice relate to the core of Mueller’s investigation.

It also seems likely that pardoning Manafort at this point would be a significant political problem for the president. The fact that Manafort was convicted of the earlier charges at trial show that the case against him is not a “witch hunt,” and the fact that Manafort is now cooperating with Mueller will make any pardon seem like a cover-up.

Andy Wright, senior fellow and founding editor of the legal blog Just Security
Manafort’s decision to cooperate with Mueller’s investigation could represent a watershed moment for the Trump presidency. On one side, Manafort is inextricably tied to Trump. The two men go back decades. Manafort was a Trump Tower tenant. He served as chairman of the Trump campaign during the critical period related to potential campaign collusion with Russian criminal election interference.

On the other side, Manafort has deep and longstanding ties to Russian oligarchs close to Vladimir Putin and represented the interests of Russian-backed Ukrainian political entities. He was there for many of the central events under scrutiny by the special counsel, including the June 2016 meeting at Trump tower with Russian emissaries offering dirt on Hillary Clinton and the platform change at the Republican National Convention that benefitted Russia. He will likely know what Trump personally knew about those events.

It is clear that President Trump is concerned about what Manafort might say. The president has reportedly told associatesManafort could incriminate him. And he has publicly celebrated Manafort’s previous omertà throughout Manafort’s criminal proceedings. Manafort’s plea will cap his imprisonment for these charges at 10 years, and he will get the benefit of a significant reduction if he provides robust and truthful cooperation.

Also, today’s announcement signals the end of Manafort’s semi-open campaign to obtain a pardon. It is inconceivable the president would pardon him in such a nakedly self-interested way. Now the president, like the rest of us, will have to wait to see how damaging Manafort’s cooperation will be. But he will do so knowing what of his skeletons, if any, are there to be uncovered.

“THE FACT THAT MANAFORT IS NOW COOPERATING WITH MUELLER WILL MAKE ANY PARDON SEEM LIKE A COVER-UP”
Joshua Dressler, law professor, Ohio State University
The man who said he would never flip has flipped. Based on the court’s explanation of the cooperation agreement, it would appear that he has agreed to cooperate fully with the special counsel, including responding to Mueller’s questions without Manafort’s lawyer present.

This is another reason why the president and his inner circle (including his relatives) need to worry. Mueller would not have agreed to this arrangement unless he felt that Manafort has a lot of relevant information to provide.

Christopher Slobogin, law professor, Vanderbilt University
Everything depends on the content of the “cooperation agreement.” If, as reported, Manafort has agreed to testify in “other proceedings” and provide documents to the special counsel, there is high likelihood that, given Mueller’s mandate, Manafort will provide information relevant to the investigation of Trump’s presidential campaign. But, of course, we still have no information about the precise content of that testimony or evidence.
 

fonzerrillii

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I have a difficult time believe this is true as Mueller would have no incentive to allow it unless Manafort was giving up some other major figure in another way.



Agree...

What's the point of a deal that limits to issues with the Trump campaign.... since Russian interference with the Election is the main thing Mueller's team is supposed to look at.

That would also Exclude the meeting at Trump Tower and Manafort was there...

This tweet makes no sense... I'm calling Duck tales
 

Amajorfucup

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I have a difficult time believe this is true as Mueller would have no incentive to allow it unless Manafort was giving up some other major figure in another way.
Ummm not really man. There is so much going on behind the scenes we will never know about. And I honestly dont think Mueller will discover any more information than he already has. At this point its all about legal strategy moving forward. I truly believe most if not all the investigative aspects are pretty much done. Manafort handed over nearly $100 million in cash and assets.. Thats a HUGE win.

Im just waiting to see the hammer drop on Don Jr.
 

Spectrum

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Agree...

What's the point of a deal that limits to issues with the Trump campaign.... since Russian interference with the Election is the main thing Mueller's team is supposed to look at.

That would also Exclude the meeting at Trump Tower and Manafort was there...

This tweet makes no sense... I'm calling Duck tales

Yep. I'm calling Duck Tales on that one too. Manafort doesn't have the leverage to get that excluded unless he's landing Mueller multiple other lateral targets that he couldn't otherwise get (Trump Jr, Bannon, etc)
 

Spectrum

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Ummm not really man. There is so much going on behind the scenes we will never know about. And I honestly dont think Mueller will discover any more information than he already has. At this point its all about legal strategy moving forward. I truly believe most if not all the investigative aspects are pretty much done. Manafort handed over nearly $100 million in cash and assets.. Thats a HUGE win.

Im just waiting to see the hammer drop on Don Jr.

I think they'll be discovering new, important information for years as this investigation is way bigger than Trump.

And Manafort is a witness to events central to Mueller's investigation (Trump Tower meeting, for instance). Either that meeting was nothing or him not agreeing to cooperate about the Trump campaign is a lie because having a direct witness who was running the campaign is way more powerful than other circumstantial evidence.... unless Mueller has way more info than we suspect.

I think I'm going to wait before I trust the NPR thing. It's ironic that Guiliani changes his statement though...which already indicates that he's worried Manafort has flipped on Trump.
 

fonzerrillii

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Man..... I Minus Whale... Change my name to NegroDamous..... I called this shit almost exactly 1 year ago.

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Personally I don’t think so... The feds have been slapping white folk left and right over Tax fraud. I actually think that’s why Mueller is focusing on the finances. Chick from the real housewives did 15 months and still got hit hit with a federal tax lien. The feds are going to use this shit.. to try and seize Paul’s assests.. including the shit that he bought his family. That’s why they included that language in the indictment. The fear of them taking his families homes and property is what the feds are going to use to get one of them to snitch. They really want Paul to snitch about the meeting with with Donald Trump Jr and the Russian chick.

Notice how he only had to give up Some of his assets...

Leaving him enough to make sure his family is secure... If he would have been found guilty... They could have potentially gotten all of his shit under the forfeiture act.
 
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