Floyd Mayweather comes off vacation to face Vicious Victor Ortiz for $40 mill

[Alaskanredman]

Your right. And on that note it is quite laughable how a lot of you are lauding floyd for his selection of opponent siting Ortiz' strengths as a reason when in reality he is tailor made for floyd to look amazing against because his biggest strengths play right into floyds!?! Sure he is a young strong heavy handed fighter but he comes straight forward offers absolutely no lateral movement or angles and punches slow as hell! Again tailor made for floyd and another example of smoke and mirors matchmaking. Plus he has no real experience on this big of a stage and will most likely freeze up! Its funny how years ago the biggest reason floyd wouldn't fight cotto was because he was too young and inexperienced but now his thirsty as has no problem snatching fruit directly off of the tree...

Until proven otherwise... every fighter is tailor made for Floyd. Even with Pac the reality is we see it as dangerous solely based on Pac being able to hurt Floyd. Martinez is brought up for the same reason.... he can eat PBF punches and hurt Floyd. I can't think of a fighter out there that is equal to or has more skills than Floyd. He will have a lot of advantages over every fighter except size and power until his age starts showing. Ortiz isn't a bad choice based on the circumstances. We all will being eating shit if Ortiz lands a good shot.

 

[Bones]

Im still shocked Golden Boy gave Ortiz to Floyd, I thought they would protect him some more. I like the kid and think he has a big future but Vic aint ready for this

I am looking forward to Manny fighting Chop Chop.......any thing to up stage Floyd right.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

I'm basically talking about the boxing media not just bgol. But here we are with a 5 page thread about this topic so... hav we realy learned anything?

The boxing media, for the most part, love Manny. Even when they don't like his choice of opponents, by the time the fight comes, they jump on the bandwagon.

Actually the topic shifted, it was originally about Floyd facing Ortiz.

Yep. A Floyd Mayweather thread will do that.

Your right. And on that note it is quite laughable how a lot of you are lauding floyd for his selection of opponent siting Ortiz' strengths as a reason when in reality he is tailor made for floyd to look amazing against because his biggest strengths play right into floyds!?! Sure he is a young strong heavy handed fighter but he comes straight forward offers absolutely no lateral movement or angles and punches slow as hell! Again tailor made for floyd and another example of smoke and mirors matchmaking. Plus he has no real experience on this big of a stage and will most likely freeze up! Its funny how years ago the biggest reason floyd wouldn't fight cotto was because he was too young and inexperienced but now his thirsty as has no problem snatching fruit directly off of the tree...

You're making arguments where they don't exist AGAIN. We know Ortiz' weaknesses, we've all mentioned them in at least one post. But that does not change that he is the type of fighter people were saying Mayweather wouldn't fight: bigger, stronger, a southpaw and very aggresive. This dude, physically, is a bigger threat than Pacquiao, who would be at a physical disadvantage with Mayweather (making the type of fighter people criticize Floyd for fighting).
He did not not take the Cotto fight because of Cotto's inexperience, he didn't take the Cotto fight because he fell out with Bob Arum over money. Cotto and Margarito were next on his list when he was an Arum fighter. But after he beat DLH, he was officially "Money" Mayweather and he wasn't fighting anymore $5 million fights.

Victor Ortiz Not That Impressed with Floyd Mayweather’s Fighting Style

http://larrybrownsports.com/boxing/...d-with-floyd-mayweathers-fighting-style/72140

On Tuesday it was officially announced that Floyd Mayweather Jr. would return to the ring for the first time since beating Shane Mosley 13 months ago. Mayweather’s fight on September 17th will be against Victor Ortiz, which is what LBS reported exactly one month ago. Mayweather was in attendance ringside for Ortiz’s impressive win over Andre Berto, so by taking the fight it’s assumed Mayweather feels comfortable he can beat Victor. As for Victor, count him as unimpressed by Mayweather.

“Ever since I was a kid, I’ve said I’ll be the first to defeat Mayweather,” Ortiz said in his first public comments since the fight was announced. “Mayweather’s quick, he’s a great fighter, but I’ve never been that impressed with his style.”

If he’s not that impressed with his style, he should be impressed by Floyd’s perfect 41-0 record. Even though I believe Mayweather is the best fighter in the world when he’s dedicating himself to his craft, I think this is a dangerous fight for him. First off, it’s pretty evident Ortiz won’t be laying down in this fight — he wants to win it badly. Secondly, Ortiz is a southpaw which always makes things somewhat confusing for fighters with an orthodox stance. Floyd hasn’t faced a southpaw since beating Zab Judah and Sharmba Mitchell in back-to-back fights in 2006 and 2005, so that can get tricky.

Most importantly, if Ortiz fights as possessed as he looked against Berto, it will give Mayweather problems. Ortiz was knocked down twice by Berto and he’s lost two fights in his short career, so it’s not like he’s invincible, but he has that quirky personality of being crazy enough in the ring to look scary. I think Mayweather will win the fight, but it’s a dangerous one, and certainly more dangerous than the past three opponents Manny Pacquiao has fought.

Maybe this nicca is really dumb enough to walk in to the ring and actually not be impressed by Floyd and give him a good fight.

I'm hoping this is just talk. No way he believes that shit. I already saw him as a heavy underdog but if he goes in underestimating Floyd, Floyd's going to have him mentally beaten by the 4th and physically dissected by the 6th.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Until proven otherwise... every fighter is tailor made for Floyd. Even with Pac the reality is we see it as dangerous solely based on Pac being able to hurt Floyd. Martinez is brought up for the same reason.... he can eat PBF punches and hurt Floyd. I think of a fighter out there that is equal to or has more skills than Floyd. He will have a lot of advantages over every fighter except size and power until his age starts showing. Ortiz isn't a bad choice based on the circumstances. We all will being eating shit if Ortiz lands a good shot.

It will be the biggest upset since Tyson ate the canvas in Tokyo.
Shit, I might put some money on Vicious Victor.

Im still shocked Golden Boy gave Ortiz to Floyd, I thought they would protect him some more. I like the kid and think he has a big future but Vic aint ready for this

I am looking forward to Manny fighting Chop Chop.......any thing to up stage Floyd right.

 

[merce77]

Im still shocked Golden Boy gave Ortiz to Floyd, I thought they would protect him some more. I like the kid and think he has a big future but Vic aint ready for this

I am looking forward to Manny fighting Chop Chop.......any thing to up stage Floyd right.

I don't understand this argument. Mayweather is not the type of fighter who destroys dudes careers. Corrales, Castillo, Judah and a few others all went on to have big fights after facing and losing to Floyd. He's not a Tito Trinidad who practically destroyed fighters futures like Vargas, Campas, David Reid, or Oba Carr.

Ortiz actually can't lose here. He's getting a chance to make some big money and IF he wins (huge, gigantic if), he'd be the first to give Money a loss and there'll probably be a rematch for bigger money and he becomes a huge star. If he loses (most likely), he's lost what will probably be a decision to the best boxer on the planet and still gets himself some big fight experience and if he has his moments in the fight his stock will probably rise. They'll say he was green and wasn't quite ready for a fight with Mayweather.

Either way there will still be plenty of fights out there for him either at 154 or from the 140lb guys moving up to 147. So Golden Boy is not throwing dude to the wolves. Not the way Arum threw Cotto to the wolves and wants to do so yet again by feeding him to Chavez Jr.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

merce
I don't think people, and I'm one, think Mayweather will physically destroy Ortiz but make him look bad and the guy is just getting some headway and earning people's respect. A loss won't kill him but a bad loss would be another blow to a fragile career.
There are plenty of fights for him after this but if he's embarassed by Mayweather, not just beaten but made to look amateurish, his stock drops dramatically just as it was coming back up.

 

[merce77]

merce
I don't think people, and I'm one, think Mayweather will physically destroy Ortiz but make him look bad and the guy is just getting some headway and earning people's respect. A loss won't kill him but a bad loss would be another blow to a fragile career.
There are plenty of fights for him after this but if he's embarassed by Mayweather, not just beaten but made to look amateurish, his stock drops dramatically just as it was coming back up.

I hear what you're saying but I still don't buy it.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

I hear what you're saying but I still don't buy it.

Well shit, I don't know what else to tell you.

 

[TJervey]

The thing with a young fighter like Ortiz is emotional highs and lows can destroy his career because it could destroy his confidence. I think putting him in with floyd after a big win is worse than putting him in a tough fight after a big loss. Te thing which make fighting floyd so dangerous is the way he beats you. Its the getting pot shotted al night and not being able to touch the Dude back whixh causes fighters to have nightmares way after the fight. Floyd may not physically dominate him but I see him mentaly destroying him. His skillset is too far off the charts for Ortiz to deal with or catch Floyd flush..

 

[merce77]

The thing with a young fighter like Ortiz is emotional highs and lows can destroy his career because it could destroy his confidence. I think putting him in with floyd after a big win is worse than putting him in a tough fight after a big loss. Te thing which make fighting floyd so dangerous is the way he beats you. Its the getting pot shotted al night and not being able to touch the Dude back whixh causes fighters to have nightmares way after the fight. Floyd may not physically dominate him but I see him mentaly destroying him. His skillset is too far off the charts for Ortiz to deal with or catch Floyd flush..

You might be right about this.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

The thing with a young fighter like Ortiz is emotional highs and lows can destroy his career because it could destroy his confidence. I think putting him in with floyd after a big win is worse than putting him in a tough fight after a big loss. Te thing which make fighting floyd so dangerous is the way he beats you. Its the getting pot shotted al night and not being able to touch the Dude back whixh causes fighters to have nightmares way after the fight. Floyd may not physically dominate him but I see him mentaly destroying him. His skillset is too far off the charts for Ortiz to deal with or catch Floyd flush..

You might be right about this.

Maybe I should have said that.

 

[merce77]

Maybe I should have said that.

Maybe you should have.

 

[Alaskanredman]

I was just thinking about this. I prefer Khan over Ortiz at this point and we all have pointed out the negatives of Ortiz, but the same time I think if Berto had beaten Ortiz and he was the choice... I wouldn't have a single problem with that.

 

[TJervey]

Maybe I should have said that.

Dave Your a cold Blooded Dude Man... I didn't read all the post, didn't even see what you wrote... Though I was being all profound and added substance to the thread.. Dude... Maybe genius minds thing alike.... You've got a subliminal way of messing with a Man's self esteem... I don't have shit else to say on the topic...

 

[Upgrade Dave]

I was just thinking about this. I prefer Khan over Ortiz at this point and we all have pointed out the negatives of Ortiz, but the same time I think if Berto had beaten Ortiz and he was the choice... I wouldn't have a single problem with that.

Yep. If Berto had won and he got the Mayweather fight, that would have been even better. Unlike Ortiz, Berto didn't just have two fights where people were questioning his heart.

Dave Your a cold Blooded Dude Man... I didn't read all the post, didn't even see what you wrote... Though I was being all profound and added substance to the thread.. Dude... Maybe genius minds thing alike.... You've got a subliminal way of messing with a Man's self esteem... I don't have shit else to say on the topic...

 

[will_right]

And drug me into it. I've been on my best behavior in this thread.



No and no one is making that argument. It wouldn't be a catchweight for Manny Pacquiao to fight Juan Manuel Marquez at 140, it would be them fighting at the jr welterweight limit. Now maybe it's just my personal definition but I've always seen the way Pacquiao/Roach use catchweights as some weight limit created by them like 145 for Cotto or 150 for Margarito for Pac's advantage.
Oh yeah, I agree completely with Zef on how Pacquiao will be looked back on. Some diehard, hardcore types will look back with skepticism but for the most part, the general idea will be he was beating up top fighters.



Not really, P. If someone doesn't know how good Floyd Mayweather is by now, they don't want to know.



Sergio for the same reasons Alaskan offered. While Floyd seems to have deceptive power, after fighting legit middleweights, Sergio won't be disturbed by Mayweather's power at 154.

And YES Dave you have been rather mild in this thread as of yet Your good behavior is not going unnoticed it's well noted

 

[merce77]

Dave Your a cold Blooded Dude Man... I didn't read all the post, didn't even see what you wrote... Though I was being all profound and added substance to the thread.. Dude... Maybe genius minds thing alike.... You've got a subliminal way of messing with a Man's self esteem... I don't have shit else to say on the topic...

Actually he didn't same the same thing. Dave said it would be a blow to an "already fragile career", also making mention of how his stock would drop "dramatically". At no time did he mention the blow it could deal to Ortiz's mind and confidence like you did so.........my self esteem is intact, mufucca.

 

[Alaskanredman]

Actually he didn't same the same thing. Dave said it would be a blow to an "already fragile career", also making mention of how his stock would drop "dramatically". At no time did he mention the blow it could deal to Ortiz's mind and confidence like you did so.........my self esteem is intact, mufucca.

Merce whatever allows you to sleep at night.... I get what you saying to a point, but that nigga got you.

 

[P03t]

 

[merce77]

Merce whatever allows you to sleep at night.... I get what you saying to a point, but that nigga got you.

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

When I said it is hard to rate pbf. It was because I have not seen him in a match where he was at a disadvantage or he had to dig down deep and show us something else. If that isn't good enough then I don't know what else to say.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

And YES Dave you have been rather mild in this thread as of yet Your good behavior is not going unnoticed it's well noted

Thank you. Finally some credit. This is like talking to my wife sometimes.

Actually he didn't same the same thing. Dave said it would be a blow to an "already fragile career", also making mention of how his stock would drop "dramatically". At no time did he mention the blow it could deal to Ortiz's mind and confidence like you did so.........my self esteem is intact, mufucca.

Nitpickin' sumbitch right here.

When I said it is hard to rate pbf. It was because I have not seen him in a match where he was at a disadvantage or he had to dig down deep and show us something else. If that isn't good enough then I don't know what else to say.

Again, then you don't want to see it.
After another long layoff, he got in the ring with Shane Mosley and all anyone, including myself, could think was "What happens when Mosley really touches him?" Most of us thought he would beat Mosley but we figured the last thing he should do was stand in the middle and punch with him. Mosley got that shot off, twice in the second round and still almost lost that round. That was Mayweather digging in and surviving sudden hardship.
What about his needing a little help to survive Castillo, making an instant rematch and beating the hell out of him. That's a sign of mental toughness.
It's not his fault that for most of his 41 wins, he's been able to overwhelm his opponents.

 

[Zeferino]

When I said it is hard to rate pbf. It was because I have not seen him in a match where he was at a disadvantage or he had to dig down deep and show us something else. If that isn't good enough then I don't know what else to say.

Well, he has shown it in the Castillo fight, the first one, and the 2nd round in the Mosley fight. However, I too feel he hasn't been active enough to really make an assessment of his skills and growth as a fighter since he moved to welterweight. Ivan Robinson used to look like Sugar Ray Robinson when they matched him with Gatti so anything Floyd did against Bruseles, Baldomir, Gatti, meant nothing for me. I was disappointed when he appeared to struggle with DLH. I felt he could have stepped up the tempo and stopped both DLH and Mosley. I think he definitely had the "pop" to do it but not the temperament. He's just been too inactive. The fight with Ortiz is a step in the right direction but by the time he faces Pacquiao he might be 35 or 36 years old. Statistically that's when 90% of non heavyweights start to slide. Floyd is doing himself a disservice with all this inactivity.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Well, he has shown it in the Castillo fight, the first one, and the 2nd round in the Mosley fight. However, I too feel he hasn't been active enough to really make an assessment of his skills and growth as a fighter since he moved to welterweight. Ivan Robinson used to look like Sugar Ray Robinson when they matched him with Gatti so anything Floyd did against Bruseles, Baldomir, Gatti, meant nothing for me. I was disappointed when he appeared to struggle with DLH. I felt he could have stepped up the tempo and stopped both DLH and Mosley. I think he definitely had the "pop" to do it but not the temperament. He's just been too inactive. The fight with Ortiz is a step in the right direction but by the time he faces Pacquiao he might be 35 or 36 years old. Statistically that's when 90% of non heavyweights start to slide. Floyd is doing himself a disservice with all this inactivity.

I agree with this and I agree that if he stepped on the gas, he would have stopped Shane but not Oscar. While I think Floyd's power is underrated, I don't think he had enough to stop Oscar that point of his career and at that size.

 

[merce77]

I agree with this and I agree that if he stepped on the gas, he would have stopped Shane but not Oscar. While I think Floyd's power is underrated, I don't think he had enough to stop Oscar that point of his career and at that size.

No way he stops Oscar. Oscar had an underrated chin, he was only stopped once by bodyshot. I don't even count the Pacman fight.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

No way he stops Oscar. Oscar had an underrated chin, he was only stopped once by bodyshot. I don't even count the Pacman fight.

Even if you count the Pacquiao fight, he probably would have finished on his feet but he was taking a horrible beating.

 

[merce77]

Even if you count the Pacquiao fight, he probably would have finished on his feet but he was taking a horrible beating.

Yeah, he could have finished the fight but I think he (and Nacho) realized right there on the stool that his career was done. The only time I could say Oscar would possibly have been ko'd was against Trinidad had that been a 15 rounder. Oscar had nothing left and Tito was stepping on the gas and starting to tag him. Other than that, he's gone down on flash-type knockdowns but dudes chin is sturdy. Now his ribs are another story.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Yeah, he could have finished the fight but I think he (and Nacho) realized right there on the stool that his career was done. The only time I could say Oscar would possibly have been ko'd was against Trinidad had that been a 15 rounder. Oscar had nothing left and Tito was stepping on the gas and starting to tag him. Other than that, he's gone down on flash-type knockdowns but dudes chin is sturdy. Now his ribs are another story.

Liver shots are the best.

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

Well, he has shown it in the Castillo fight, the first one, and the 2nd round in the Mosley fight. However, I too feel he hasn't been active enough to really make an assessment of his skills and growth as a fighter since he moved to welterweight. Ivan Robinson used to look like Sugar Ray Robinson when they matched him with Gatti so anything Floyd did against Bruseles, Baldomir, Gatti, meant nothing for me. I was disappointed when he appeared to struggle with DLH. I felt he could have stepped up the tempo and stopped both DLH and Mosley. I think he definitely had the "pop" to do it but not the temperament. He's just been too inactive. The fight with Ortiz is a step in the right direction but by the time he faces Pacquiao he might be 35 or 36 years old. Statistically that's when 90% of non heavyweights start to slide. Floyd is doing himself a disservice with all this inactivity.

One fight and one round isn't enough. I will say that dude is talented. But until I see the things we use a barometers for greatness in pbf I dont have a clue where I would rate him. Every other great fighter had a boogie man that tormented them. Fights that they were able to show they we more than matchmaking champs. Rounds of intense drama that showed you what they were about. I dont have those moments for pbf.

The only thing interesting about the ortiz fight is this. Will the layoff hurt him as he faces a south paw that has confidence and no fear of him. Reminds me of rjj and tarver. Ortiz thinks he can win. Should be a good fight. But that depends on if pbf want to fight or tap his way to another boring decision.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

One fight and one round isn't enough. I will say that dude is talented. But until I see the things we use a barometers for greatness in pbf I dont have a clue where I would rate him. Every other great fighter had a boogie man that tormented them. Fights that they were able to show they we more than matchmaking champs. Rounds of intense drama that showed you what they were about. I dont have those moments for pbf.

The only thing interesting about the ortiz fight is this. Will the layoff hurt him as he faces a south paw that has confidence and no fear of him. Reminds me of rjj and tarver. Ortiz thinks he can win. Should be a good fight. But that depends on if pbf want to fight or tap his way to another boring decision.

The fact that no one ever seems eager to rush in on him means those are more than taps. Paulie Malignaggi taps. If you expect Floyd to not fight smart and fight like a Mexican for your entertainment, don't watch the fight.

He had a "boogie man", it was Castillo and he manhandled him in the rematch so there was no third fight.
That's like judging the Bulls team that won 72 games low because no one gave them much of a fight on their way to the championship.

But on that thought, I can't think of Pacquiao having an opponent like that either. He was beaten badly by Erik Morales (good fight but the decision was never in doubt), and if it wasn't for the knockdowns, he was clearly outclassed by Marquez. Where is his great struggle where he overcame adversity? In the JMM fights, he got out to leads and held on. Is that the same thing?

 

[merce77]

The only reason Pacman has struggled and looked "life and death" with certain dudes is because he isn't as good a boxer as people make him out to be. Some dudes make it look easy because they are that good. A lot of people used to say the same thing about Roy Jones, that he never proved that he could overcome adversity and all that horseshit. It's because nobody he fought in his prime ever put him in an adverse situation, plain and simple.

 

[P03t]

The only reason Pacman has struggled and looked "life and death" with certain dudes is because he isn't as good a boxer as people make him out to be. Some dudes make it look easy because they are that good. A lot of people used to say the same thing about Roy Jones, that he never proved that he could overcome adversity and all that horseshit. It's because nobody he fought in his prime ever put him in an adverse situation, plain and simple.

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

The fact that no one ever seems eager to rush in on him means those are more than taps. Paulie Malignaggi taps. If you expect Floyd to not fight smart and fight like a Mexican for your entertainment, don't watch the fight.

He had a "boogie man", it was Castillo and he manhandled him in the rematch so there was no third fight.
That's like judging the Bulls team that won 72 games low because no one gave them much of a fight on their way to the championship.

But on that thought, I can't think of Pacquiao having an opponent like that either. He was beaten badly by Erik Morales (good fight but the decision was never in doubt), and if it wasn't for the knockdowns, he was clearly outclassed by Marquez. Where is his great struggle where he overcame adversity? In the JMM fights, he got out to leads and held on. Is that the same thing?

First pbf is a talented dude. But just like bron is shrinking away in the fourth is how pbf stayed away from his biggest challenges. Also just like this board inflates chop chop dont do the same with castillio. He was a solid pro. However he was not a fighter that could be considered in pbf's league. Compare sugar and the duran situation then look at the pbf and castillio situation and they are not remotely on the same level. But you speak as though it was.

This is about how I feel about pbf. Lol, what does manny have to do with my statement. I explained my reasoning behind it. All great fighters have epic moments where they did something incredible. They have fights that define them. Pbf doesnt in my opinion for the reasons i mention. We discuss the castillio fight cause we all realize he got a gift. But at the end of the day it was not a battle where we use what happened as a testament of who pbf is.

I hope we see pbf and ortiz have an incredible fight and it becomes a huge part of pbf's in ring legacy.

 

[Alaskanredman]

The only reason Pacman has struggled and looked "life and death" with certain dudes is because he isn't as good a boxer as people make him out to be. Some dudes make it look easy because they are that good. A lot of people used to say the same thing about Roy Jones, that he never proved that he could overcome adversity and all that horseshit. It's because nobody he fought in his prime ever put him in an adverse situation, plain and simple.

I can guarantee that if Floyd has a life or death fight with anyone... the first thing that will be said is "see he isn't that good" and it won't matter if he's 40. If you can't admit how good he is based on some of his damn near flawless victories over champions... you will never admit it.

If he isn't what you like cause you want brawl... fine.

If you question if he has heart... fine, he hasn't had to dig deep.

If want to see him against tough comp... fine, we all do.

But to act like you can't judge whether or not he is a great boxer...

 

[Alaskanredman]

....Also just like this board inflates chop chop dont do the same with castillio. He was a solid pro. However he was not a fighter that could be considered in pbf's league. Compare sugar and the duran situation then look at the pbf and castillio situation and they are not remotely on the same level. But you speak as though it was.

This is about how I feel about pbf. Lol, what does manny have to do with my statement. I explained my reasoning behind it. All great fighters have epic moments where they did something incredible. They have fights that define them. Pbf doesnt in my opinion for the reasons i mention. We discuss the castillio fight cause we all realize he got a gift. But at the end of the day it was not a battle where we use what happened as a testament of who pbf is.

I hope we see pbf and ortiz have an incredible fight and it becomes a huge part of pbf's in ring legacy.

1) Name a fighter in any of his weight classes that was in his league.

2) It sounds like you want some kind of soap opera moment instead of a true display of skills... which is fine if that's how you look at sports.