From what i gained from last nights fight is that #1 Mayweather is rare in that he is only as fast as he has to be meaning its difficult to gage his speed! He made Shane who is pretty fast himself look rather average in regards to hand and foot speed! #2 He fought toe to toe with one of the most explosive fighters in boxing history! #3 Shane is still very good and probably could beat any other welter weight besides floyd, he destroyed Plasterito who at the time was a fighter that everyone in that weight class feared! #4 Mayweather has superior ring generalship and uncanny boxing I.Q. #5 Mayweather would destroy Pac-man probably with a late round K.O., Pac-man is taylored made for Floyd due to being one dimensional. The Only way Pac-man is able to be effective is when his opponents engage in exchanges with him, Mayweather will not allow Pac-man to force exchanges, every inch of that fight will be on Mayweather's terms, and i do not think that Manny handles adversity well! Case in point even though he won easily over Clottey Pac-man showed frustration at times when he could not effectively punch Clottey. He won that fight because he was the aggressor not because he caused substantial damage! And by the way when Clottey did decide to throw punches he often landed easily! (After Floyd defeats Manny I think it is time to put him in the top 5 G.O.A.T. And probably a close second to sugar ray robinson as the greatest welter weight ever! Definately he is the greatest fighter of his generation)
Is Floyd top 5 of all time????
- Thread starter deon8582
- Start date
I am not sure if you are exaggerating purposely or being sarcastic but there is no way Mayweather can be considered the greatest welterweight ever. This is not even about being a hater. Find the answers to the following questions and reflect: When did Mayweather move to the welterweight division? How many ranked or real members of the welterweight division did Mayweather fight? How many top welters did Mayweather fight? How many defenses of a title did Mayweather make at welterweight?
IMO, Mayweather's best run was at lightweight almost 10 years ago. Maybe at lightweight, he can make a case for being one of the best lightweights ever. However, he can't do the same right now for any of the weight classes he fought in after lightweight.
he isn't even a top ten welterweight of all time. hell he isn't top ten any weight class. But dude is nice. He is top 10 this and last decade.
It's kind of weird ranking Floyd because he is obviously talented but other than at lightweight almost ten years ago, he has yet to dominate a weight class. One would think that you should at least be the undisputed best in your own weight class to be considered pound for pound the best in all weight classes. In other words, you should at least have your own weight class on lock.
The All Time Great debate is really subjective. You can't really just evaluate it on the performances we see because we haven't seen much of the former greats, Robinson, Louis, Johnson, etc. Also, you have to look at the entire cycle of a fighter, skill, body of work, quality wins, types of wins, record against the best of their era, etc. In those categories, it is really difficult to place Floyd in an All Time top 5 because 1) He didn't really fight the best in and around his division on a regular basis, when THEY WERE AT THEIR BEST 2) He didn't SEEK OUT, challenges, the way a Leonard, Robinson, etc. did. He is definitely one of the most gifted total package boxer of all time, in ANY era. He has the ability to change and adapt to the fight at hand, he is impossible to hit when he is in his flow, and he showed against Shane, he is able to be aggressive and still stay in his pocket..That is what makes him very very special. I do believe taking on Shane was a calculated risk, and a lot of us who wanted to see Floyd lose for the sake of losing, were so blinded by our need to see Floyd lose that we couldn't see that it was next to impossible for Shane to win this fight.
That being said, I don't believe Floyd is overall one of the 5 best ever, I see him behind, (Ali, Robinson, Louis, Leonard, Hagler, Armstrong, and a few others) but, I do say that he probably is one of the top 3 ever in terms of overall skill set. We may never see as complete a fighter again in this generation....I for damn sure will stop trying to pick apart his deficiencies and give him the respect he is due, as a talent he is very very special..
That being said, I don't believe Floyd is overall one of the 5 best ever, I see him behind, (Ali, Robinson, Louis, Leonard, Hagler, Armstrong, and a few others) but, I do say that he probably is one of the top 3 ever in terms of overall skill set. We may never see as complete a fighter again in this generation....I for damn sure will stop trying to pick apart his deficiencies and give him the respect he is due, as a talent he is very very special..
agreed, but we won't be able to truly evaluate Floyd until he is done.
For the others commenting on Floyd based him being the best welter weight is simplistic. If I looked at Sugar Ray Leonard and tried to compare him to the best Middleweights you would think I was crazy.
Again people also got to keep in mind that Floyd didn't have the Haglers, Hearns and Durans. Leonard/Ali/etc. had several superfights from early to late in their careers.
I've been saying that Floyd was pound for pound the best ever since the days they were giving that to Roy Jones, Jr.
sugar ray is top ten welterweight.
after seeing him run around the ring for 8+ rounds last night...no.
Floyd didn't have Hagler, Hearns, and Duran, but he can at least fight what is there.
Is a Pac a top ten welter weight? If it seems like a dumb question it is probably because he's had a long career in several weight classes with a fraction of it at welter similar to Floyd... or if you were able to follow my comparison its like talking about Sugar Ray Leonard as a top ten Middle weight when that time period was only a fraction of his career. If you try to make a justification of Leonard being the greatest solely on his work at Middle weight... you would have a hard time convincing anyone.
Also if Floyd beats everyone at welter... Berto, Cotto and Clottey, he still won't be the greatest in most people's eye because these guys aren't Hagler, Hearns or Duran. None of Floyd's comp are even close to the same level as Floyd so everyone he fights will be given an excuse as to why they got beat and why Floyd isn't that great.
Definitely. The Top 5 is rarefied air but Floyd make a big move up.
He's definitely a top 10 welterweight. Every time he's decided to campaign as a he beat the to welters at the time, whether it was Judah and Baldomir in 06 and now WBA champion Shane Mosley, a HoF guy if there ever was one.
Run
Once people get emotionally invested in disliking someone they don't know, they can never be convinced otherwise.
Dude...
I been one of the biggest Anti-Floyd activists on BGOL but there is no way he RAN anywhere last night. He probably gave a career best performance considering the caliber of fighter he dominated...
Ummm, I was stating SRL is a top ten WW of all time. So it is easier to look at him and his body of work as top 5 all time. PBF has a resume that does not touch SRL. And add he never dominated a weight class with talent that SRL did then it is extremely funny to put PBF in the same class.
until he stops ducking behind this drug test bullshit and fights Manny the answer is and will always be no.
PBF could be if he fought more challenges and other great fighters in their prime at their weight class. That s what most great fighters do. You can not look at pbf's resume and say that. I mean if him fighting an old shane and not being able to knock him out is his signature fight then that is wild.
Casual boxing fans should not be allowed to post on the sports board. Please stay on the main forum and dont pollute threads here.
Yo. Im really amazed man. Ive been accused of being anti-floyd in the past because before his first retirement. I thought he clearly was lacking the resume to support his claims of how great he thought he was at that point in his career...in terms of overall legacy.. However, now, he is adding world-class boxers to his resume.
But cats are now crying about him not KOing fucking Sugar Shane Mosley. You have got to be kidding me.
Buk, your level of hate is ridiculous...because you arent a casual boxing fan that is just clueless.
How you gonna cry about Floyd of all people not knocking out a fighter who has never been in real danger of being KOd. If Mosley doesnt hold on too long, he will never be KOd. Dude has a chin of a steal and is a true warrior.
The simple fact that he made Mosley look like an amateur is a huge statement. Molsey wasnt shot...he just got outboxed.
Clearly outboxed. It can't be blamed on his conditioning. He's a veteran fighter with a great veteran trainer. It can't be blamed on the blood testing since they both did it. Two men, at the top of their profession, fought and one was clearly the better fighter. That's it. Anything else is bullshit.
we saw a different fight. I saw a fighter that was not out boxed but not prepared to make it past four rounds. I had a friend tell me shane's camp was going really bad. I once again brish him off as I did in the past but it looks like his inside knowledge was correct. if you think shane looked like he was at the top of his profession then I just got to laugh. He is lucky he didn't fight berto. Berto would have knocked Shane out. I think it was a fact he was not ready for the fight period. I thought the entire fight was another embarrasment for boxing. Now the undercard. Those were entertaining as hell.
I got no love or hate for pbf. I just call things as I see it.
I don't hate dude. But the crying about him not knocking him out is fair. I hate when boxers carrying fighters in the ring. That shit disgust me. Bhop used to do that stuff all the time. Man, if you are better then don't pull off the gas. Knock that fool out. As old an shot Shane looked it was a crime he did not turn off the lights on him.
You call things as you see them based on some weird dislike for Mayweather.
In your world, a seasoned veteran like Mosley with a seasoned trainer like Richardson only trained for 4 rounds? Against a cagey fighter in his own right that had never been defeated, much less stopped?
C'mon man, you're not even coherent in any of these threads.
You call things as you see them based on some weird dislike for Mayweather.
In your world, a seasoned veteran like Mosley with a seasoned trainer like Richardson only trained for 4 rounds? Against a cagey fighter in his own right that had never been defeated, much less stopped?
C'mon man, you're not even coherent in any of these threads.
no what is weird is you guys constantly crying about me hating dude. I have said over and over he is a great talent. His defensive prowess is out this world. Yet his choice of fights and resume is extremely lacking. His lack of killer instinct against top fighters drops him in my eyes. I never said anything about dude not being skillful. So stop bitching about what I am not saying and look at what I'm saying.
Dude has the talent to be the best but not the drive to be the best. It is that simple. His last two fights were terrible. He didn't make weight and beat up on an overweight lightweight fighter and his last fight he fought a guy who was gassed after round 4. Lol, if I'm wrong and that sound like hate then so be it. You guys are just funny.
Excuses.
The All Time Great debate is really subjective. You can't really just evaluate it on the performances we see because we haven't seen much of the former greats, Robinson, Louis, Johnson, etc. Also, you have to look at the entire cycle of a fighter, skill, body of work, quality wins, types of wins, record against the best of their era, etc. In those categories, it is really difficult to place Floyd in an All Time top 5 because 1) He didn't really fight the best in and around his division on a regular basis, when THEY WERE AT THEIR BEST 2) He didn't SEEK OUT, challenges, the way a Leonard, Robinson, etc. did. He is definitely one of the most gifted total package boxer of all time, in ANY era. He has the ability to change and adapt to the fight at hand, he is impossible to hit when he is in his flow, and he showed against Shane, he is able to be aggressive and still stay in his pocket..That is what makes him very very special. I do believe taking on Shane was a calculated risk, and a lot of us who wanted to see Floyd lose for the sake of losing, were so blinded by our need to see Floyd lose that we couldn't see that it was next to impossible for Shane to win this fight.
That being said, I don't believe Floyd is overall one of the 5 best ever, I see him behind, (Ali, Robinson, Louis, Leonard, Hagler, Armstrong, and a few others) but, I do say that he probably is one of the top 3 ever in terms of overall skill set. We may never see as complete a fighter again in this generation....I for damn sure will stop trying to pick apart his deficiencies and give him the respect he is due, as a talent he is very very special..
PBF only in the ring deficiencies are he lack the killer instinct most great fighter have and he lacks power. But since he is so skilled in ever other place is doesn't effect the outcome, but does the perception of how people view him.
Dude is top 10 last decade. When you look at what he did victory wise, but how can he even be consider top 5 without a list of career and boxing defining type fights. He wants history but won't chase it.
Mosley was definitely outboxed but although he was not shot, he was definitely far past his prime. People got big on Mosley again after the Margarito fight but before that fight his slippage was being commented on regularly.
Also, even though I think younger fighters are supposed to take out older fighters like Mosley and De La Hoya, we must recognize that Mosley has a great chin and Mayweather did everything except knock him down and out.
Mayweather deserves credit for showing tremendous balls to step right to Mosley in the third round right after that bad second round. He also deserves credit for taking out the so called best welterweight in Mosley even though Mosley was old.
However, an objective analysis of Mayweather shows that he rarely fights young, fresh, fighters his own size. Also, when faced with fighters with similar speed in Judah, Mosley, and even Corley, he has gotten rocked. He also seems very vulnerable to a jab of all punches. I think this shows that his defense, though tight, is overrated and not the "greatest defense of all time".
Mayweather still has some proving to do before being declared the greatest anything of all time. He could start by cleaning out his own division for a change.
I think Mayweather's power is very underrated. He doesn't get knock outs because he's not stepping to guys trying to knock him out. It's not his style. I've always believed Mayweather could have stopped Oscar also had he simply stepped it up.
If he didn't have power, Mosley would have been a lot more eager to trade with him. The fact that Mosley, as good as his chin is, did not want to sit down and trade with Mayweather confirms that Mayweather can punch.
Very true. A lot of people get caught up in the whole "Money" Mayweather persona and the boasting. Mayweather was very slick by proclaiming himself the greatest of all time because if you say something enough times people will start to believe it.
When you take a close look at his resume like you said, it really pales in many aspects when compared to other greats. I really cringe when I hear people say Mayweather has the greatest defense of all time because he hasn't been testing it against the kind of fighters that would confirm whether it is great or not. Let him fight a fresh, young guy like a Paul Williams.
If people are tired of excuses being made for Mayweather's opponents after they lose, then he should fight people like: Paul Williams, Sergio Martinez, Manny Pacquiao, Andre Berto.
If Paul Williams or Martinez were to lose to Mayweather, what would be the excuse? I can't think of one. Same for Pacquiao and Berto. Just like if he would have fought Cotto and Margarito when they were fresh. Instead, by fighting guys like Baldomir, Judah, Hatton, and Marquez, Mayweather just set himself up to get criticized. He fought a bum, a guy that had just lost to a bum, a small guy, and an old small guy.
I agree with that. But with his hands being fragile and the fight in hand, he sees no point in doing anymore than he needs to. If the knockout comes, it comes. If it doesn't, he doesn't try to force it. But his wins aren't any less decisive.
When a guy plays basketball, a dunk and a layup are both worth two points.
When he fought Judah and Hatton, they were "fresh".
I see there is a new list of guys he has to beat, two of which are jr middle/middleweights and one a guy who hasn't beaten anyone of note to date.
I love Paul Williams like he's a relative but Williams would not test his defense. If Carlos Quintana figured him out, how could Mayweather not?
If Floyd had fought and beaten Andre Berto or Manny Pacquiao by now, these same flawed criticisms would be lofted at him. Berto would be too young and green (he still is) and Manny did prove to be a legit welter until he beat Cotto, so he would have been too small.
It seems that some people will constantly move the measuring stick no matter what he does.
