Is Floyd top 5 of all time????

[Alaskanredman]

I completely agree. I think he needs to beat Pacman and beat him soundly. I think differently than before.. I actually think that Floyd should beat Pacman easily. If he didnt beat him by KO or UD, I would be shocked. I think Pacman is a great fighter..an actuall all-time great, but I really think Floyd is in another class he need to outclass Pacman.

I also think he would need to outclass one more great fighter to really put the nail in the coffin. I could never consider him the BEST of all time simply because this era doesnt stand up to great eras of the past. However, by doing beating two more great, the case could then be made that he would be one of the best in ANY era.

I am of the opinion that even fighting Berto and a couple other welters is not going to do much for his overall legacy because there arent many great welters.. good welters but not great welters.

I can agree but who is the other great fighter? Someone will have to step up quickly.

 

[Spectrum]

I can agree but who is the other great fighter? Someone will have to step up quickly.

That is the problem and also credit to how good Floyd really is. He is trapped by his era. I just dont see anyone that gives him any problems in the welterweight division.

 

[Zeferino]

That is the problem and also credit to how good Floyd really is. He is trapped by his era. I just dont see anyone that gives him any problems in the welterweight division.

Yeah but this is still boxing where anything can happen. You never know what's going to happen until the fight actually happens. No one expected Buster Douglas to give Tyson problems, no one expected Frankie Randall to give Chavez problems, no one expected Randy Turpin to give Ray Robinson and the list of upsets goes on and on. If the great fighters would have just sat back and said "no one is worthy of fighting me" then fewer fights would have been made and fewer upsets would have occurred. The upset is one of the most intriguing parts of the sport of boxing.

 

[Spectrum]

Yeah but this is still boxing where anything can happen. You never know what's going to happen until the fight actually happens. No one expected Buster Douglas to give Tyson problems,

I get what you are saying...But actually man, if you look at Tyson, he always struggled with tall fighters who could throw a good jab...even before this fight and before the Lewis fight, he struggled in earlier fights against that type of fighter. So it was not a real fluke. So there was a real reason why he lost that fight and why he struggled....it only made sense to a lot of people years after by looking back at his career. But it wasnt like Buster won with a fluke KO...he jabbed Tyson all night.

I just cant dont see anything that Berto has that could really surprise anyone.

I get what you are saying and that you just want to see him fight... but i would much rather see him go up in weight than fight Berto... Floyd actually said going up in weight was not out of the question... because I think a guy like Sergio is just a much better boxer than Berto... throwing out the size advantage that he has, I just think he would give a more interesting fight just on his defensive style alone.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Misrepresent you? You basically confirmed everything I said. You contradicted yourself a couple of times too. You say fighters have to earn big fights but then you caught yourself with the Clottey example. I guess it depends on your definition of "big fights" which I suspect is limited to fights only in which Pacquiao and Mayweather are involved.

Also, you state that the Clottey fight was horrible as if it had something to do with him not "earning" it yet the Marquez fight with Mayweather was equally horrible and you think he earned it somehow.

No contradiction at all. Clottey was given that fight with Pacquiao because they felt they could beat him. As soon as he was announced, I knew where it was going because, for whatever people say about Mayweather and his choice of opponents, Roach is just as shrewd and more calculating. The guy had never fought on ppv and had lost his last major fight. JMM, with Manny, set the ppv record for most buys featuring the lighter divisions, so he had a successful ppv history to back up his ranking in the Top 5 p4p list (number 2 in most people's). While the outcomes were similar, the caliber of fighters were not. Manny and Floyd were both supposed to win and they did handily but one's opponent actually brought something to the table.

This stuff about Berto, Martinez, and Williams having to prove something more for people to want to see them fight is bullshit and a convenient excuse for ducking them. If everybody thought like you, there would be almost no fights to watch. If a boxer is active, he should be fighting. I'm a fan of boxing so I like to see guys fight. I think fans should want to see Mayweather take out all these top welters. I really don't see what the controversy is. Isn't it natural to want to see boxers box? Especially if it's the so called pound for pound best in the world?

Finally, you keep going into this stuff about middleweights and light heavyweights when my point in this topic is not about the intricacies of fighting at different weights. My point is about seeing fights.

When did I ever say that there was no difference between fighting light heavies, middles, welters, and all of this stuff? I don't know where you're getting that.

You addressed my main point when you said that the only guy "worthy" of fighting Mayweather is Pac and if that fight doesn't come of he may as well retire. We differ on that. As a boxing fan, I think there are plenty of great fights to be made, great money to be made, and it's not all limited to just one opponent. You said that Mayweather came back for legacy fights. One way to gain a legacy is to dominate your division like Hopkins and Monzon did so there is some value in that. Did I say that Mayweather should unify the belts and make a zillion defenses? No. Would it look impressive for him to face the other champs in his division and become undisputed at welterweight? Yes.

There was a mention of his unifying the belts, if it wasn't you before, it is now. He was already the undisputed welterweight king, after the Baldomir fight. At this point, he's beyond the belts. He didn't even want Shane Mosley's title.
I fail to see how the few critics left that discredited his win over Oscar and his knockout of Hatton and now the dismantling of Mosley are going to come around if he beat Andre Berto, who hasn't had one major win and does nothing in the ring to suggest he would even be competitive.
Hopkins was a middleweight for 16 years while Floyd Mayweather has fought in 5 different weight classes, not a good comparison at all. The only win left out there worth the effort to attempt is Pacquiao. Beating Andre Berto now would be about as meaningful as Bernard beating Howard Eastman.
My approach would have more top fighters fighting more often to get their name value up. If Berto wants in on that Mayweather-Pacquiao money, he needs to fight and win impressively probably two more times this year before either or both of them retires.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

That is the problem and also credit to how good Floyd really is. He is trapped by his era. I just dont see anyone that gives him any problems in the welterweight division.

Exactly. If welterweight was as deep as Jim Lampley still believes, this would be much easier but it's not. It's down to Mayweather and Pacquiao. Every other welter, especially Berto, needs to be working hard to be in consideration if this fight falls through again.

I get what you are saying...But actually man, if you look at Tyson, he always struggled with tall fighters who could throw a good jab...even before this fight and before the Lewis fight, he struggled in earlier fights against that type of fighter. So it was not a real fluke. So there was a real reason why he lost that fight and why he struggled....it only made sense to a lot of people years after by looking back at his career. But it wasnt like Buster won with a fluke KO...he jabbed Tyson all night.

I just cant dont see anything that Berto has that could really surprise anyone.

I get what you are saying and that you just want to see him fight... but i would much rather see him go up in weight than fight Berto... Floyd actually said going up in weight was not out of the question... because I think a guy like Sergio is just a much better boxer than Berto... throwing out the size advantage that he has, I just think he would give a more interesting fight just on his defensive style alone.

Sergio, skill wise, would be a good match up but the size is daunting. Even with Mayweather going up, the dude seems to top out at about 150 and that would force Martinez, if he was thirsty enough, to have to drain himself to an unnatural level, looking like Oscar or Erik Morale against Pacquiao.
I don't want to see guys fight just to see them fight. I want to see boxers fighters guys their size, or close to, at their natural weights. The one thing I hate about boxing is the way fighters kill themselves to fight at a much lighter class than they should. Floyd would have to pull a Freddie Roach on Sergio and then the win doesn't mean as much.

 

[merce77]

Exactly. If welterweight was as deep as Jim Lampley still believes, this would be much easier but it's not. It's down to Mayweather and Pacquiao. Every other welter, especially Berto, needs to be working hard to be in consideration if this fight falls through again.



Sergio, skill wise, would be a good match up but the size is daunting. Even with Mayweather going up, the dude seems to top out at about 150 and that would force Martinez, if he was thirsty enough, to have to drain himself to an unnatural level, looking like Oscar or Erik Morale against Pacquiao.
I don't want to see guys fight just to see them fight. I want to see boxers fighters guys their size, or close to, at their natural weights. The one thing I hate about boxing is the way fighters kill themselves to fight at a much lighter class than they should. Floyd would have to pull a Freddie Roach on Sergio and then the win doesn't mean as much.

Unless he does what every other Hall of Famer has done and just move up. Forget this catchweight bullshit and just move up to 154. He's already won that title. Sergio is really blown up super welter anyway. And his size is not as daunting as say P.W. who I think Floyd could beat. Sergio would bring some real style and challenges to the fight, it'd be a good match.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Unless he does what every other Hall of Famer has done and just move up. Forget this catchweight bullshit and just move up to 154. He's already won that title. Sergio is really blown up super welter anyway. And his size is not as daunting as say P.W. who I think Floyd could beat. Sergio would bring some real style and challenges to the fight, it'd be a good match.

But he's already moved up, he started at super featherweight and now fights at welterweight.
He didn't actually win a jr. middleweight title but a super welterweight title (another problem I have with boxing is the made up titles they create out of thin air. What the hell is the difference between a super welter and a jr. middle?)
Sergio may have been a blown up super welter before but he weighed in at 167 (I had it wrong earlier) the night of the fight, making him a full blown super middleweight. At 35, the only way he would fight Mayweather is to cut a lot of weight, weakening him tremendously. That's not the way I would want to see him fight anyone.

 

[Zeferino]

But he's already moved up, he started at super featherweight and now fights at welterweight.
He didn't actually win a jr. middleweight title but a super welterweight title (another problem I have with boxing is the made up titles they create out of thin air. What the hell is the difference between a super welter and a jr. middle?)
Sergio may have been a blown up super welter before but he weighed in at 167 (I had it wrong earlier) the night of the fight, making him a full blown super middleweight. At 35, the only way he would fight Mayweather is to cut a lot of weight, weakening him tremendously. That's not the way I would want to see him fight anyone.

Super welter and Junior middleweight are the same exact thing.

 

[Zeferino]

Unless he does what every other Hall of Famer has done and just move up. Forget this catchweight bullshit and just move up to 154. He's already won that title. Sergio is really blown up super welter anyway. And his size is not as daunting as say P.W. who I think Floyd could beat. Sergio would bring some real style and challenges to the fight, it'd be a good match.

I don't know, do you really think any of the fighters at 154 are worthy enough for Mayweather? Maybe they should have a tournament kind of like the super 6 with the grand prize being the opportunity to fight Mayweather.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Super welter and Junior middleweight are the same exact thing.

Which makes my point on the specious nature of boxing titles in today's environment. Who did Oscar beat for that title anyway? Vargas? Mayorga?
Or was that the same WBC light middleweight title he won from Mayorga was, I thought, the jr. middleweight champion? Titles are for up and comers now, not elite fighters. The promoters and commissions have done more to devalue titles than anything any fighter has done (and that's saying something).

I don't know, do you really think any of the fighters at 154 are worthy enough for Mayweather? Maybe they should have a tournament kind of like the super 6 with the grand prize being the opportunity to fight Mayweather.

That wouldn't be a bad idea. You see the attention the Super Six has generated for super middleweight, it could do the same for the welterweight division. The guy who walks out of that, if promoted strongly and correctly, could be a marketable enough name to fight a Floyd Mayweather or Manny Pacquiao .

Oh, you were trying to be funny.

 

[Spectrum]

That wouldn't be a bad idea. You see the attention the Super Six has generated for super middleweight, it could do the same for the welterweight division. The guy who walks out of that, if promoted strongly and correctly, could be a marketable enough name to fight a Floyd Mayweather or Manny Pacquiao .

Oh, you were trying to be funny.

actually, that would be nice.

 

[Alaskanredman]

Unless he does what every other Hall of Famer has done and just move up. Forget this catchweight bullshit and just move up to 154. He's already won that title. Sergio is really blown up super welter anyway. And his size is not as daunting as say P.W. who I think Floyd could beat. Sergio would bring some real style and challenges to the fight, it'd be a good match.

I agree...

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Just so I'm clear on what all the disagreement about (kind of nice for things to be back to normal), there isn't anyone saying he shouldn't fight Pacquiao but that they would like to see him fight Berto as well. I see a couple names of jr. middle and middleweights mentioned but they are nowhere near realistic so I'll stick with an actual welterweight.

 

[Zeferino]

Just so I'm clear on what all the disagreement about (kind of nice for things to be back to normal), there isn't anyone saying he shouldn't fight Pacquiao but that they would like to see him fight Berto as well. I see a couple names of jr. middle and middleweights mentioned but they are nowhere near realistic so I'll stick with an actual welterweight.

For me, I don't really care about Mayweather fighting jr middles and middleweights. I just would like to see him fight the guys in his own division. I think he should fight all the champs at welter and dominate his own division. I don't think that's too much to ask for unless he's just trying to cash out and retire. If that's the case, then what he does has very little to do with legacy. As a fan, I prefer the legacy fights over the money fights.

 

[tp2001]

Casual boxing fans should not be allowed to post on the sports board. Please stay on the main forum and dont pollute threads here.

thank you...

Yo. Im really amazed man. Ive been accused of being anti-floyd in the past because before his first retirement. I thought he clearly was lacking the resume to support his claims of how great he thought he was at that point in his career...in terms of overall legacy.. However, now, he is adding world-class boxers to his resume.

But cats are now crying about him not KOing fucking Sugar Shane Mosley. You have got to be kidding me.

Buk, your level of hate is ridiculous...because you arent a casual boxing fan that is just clueless.

How you gonna cry about Floyd of all people not knocking out a fighter who has never been in real danger of being KOd. If Mosley doesnt hold on too long, he will never be KOd. Dude has a chin of a steal and is a true warrior.

The simple fact that he made Mosley look like an amateur is a huge statement. Molsey wasnt shot...he just got outboxed.

See, this is what I'm talking about...real boxing talk...

Shane has never been KOd by anyone and he would not let Forrest do that in his first fight...If Shane, who has been in many high-profile fights since 2000, was KOd by Floyd, then it would put Mayweather in a class of his own by far...Why? Because Mosley at that point was a very dangerous fighter. Now to see him get dominated like that was a shock to many people including myself considering that Shane had him in big trouble in round 2...All Mayweather did was step up his game and become the aggressor...which flustered Mosley...not only that, he looked like the bigger fighter in some points, which I did not expect at all....

Now about the top 5 ever argument...it is subjective in this day in age because you cannot compare the sport of boxing now to what it was in the 60s, 70s, and 80s...All of these matchups that people are talking about that Floyd could have made have roadblocks because of promoters that have "grudges" against fighters...If Arum and Floyd didn't have the beef that they had, then forget a Pac-Floyd fight....we would have already seen Floyd fight Cotto in 2008 IMO...Even though I wasn't around in the 70s and was a jit in the 80s, my guess is that if we had the same situation then as we do now, the Hagler/Leonard - Hagler/Hearns - Foreman/Lyle (had to throw that in ) may not have happened...

I am not sure if I can name Floyd among the top 5 all-time, though. Top 10 definitely...but if can't name 5 boxers over the course of history that are better than him, then I will put him on the list...

Hopkins was a middleweight for 16 years while Floyd Mayweather has fought in 5 different weight classes, not a good comparison at all. The only win left out there worth the effort to attempt is Pacquiao. Beating Andre Berto now would be about as meaningful as Bernard beating Howard Eastman.

P.S. Floyd would have been undisputed WW champ in March of 2006 had Judah defeated Baldomir in January...Judah lost those titles and Baldomir and his camp couldn't afford to keep but the WBC belt. Therefore, Floyd had to fight Baldomir for the WBC and "Ring" WW title since at that point they were the top 2 fighters in the division...

 

[Upgrade Dave]

For me, I don't really care about Mayweather fighting jr middles and middleweights. I just would like to see him fight the guys in his own division. I think he should fight all the champs at welter and dominate his own division. I don't think that's too much to ask for unless he's just trying to cash out and retire. If that's the case, then what he does has very little to do with legacy. As a fan, I prefer the legacy fights over the money fights.

Okay but there isn't much legacy in fighting Andre Berto right now. Pacquiao is the only guy that brings money and prestige and an audience. Is there anyone other than those two worth mentioning in the welterweight division now? And the difference in stature between Mayweather and Pacquiao and the rest of the division is staggering. Berto's got a belt but he can't even fill arenas in his hometown and he still hasn't beaten anyone.

.S. Floyd would have been undisputed WW champ in March of 2006 had Judah defeated Baldomir in January...Judah lost those titles and Baldomir and his camp couldn't afford to keep but the WBC belt. Therefore, Floyd had to fight Baldomir for the WBC and "Ring" WW title since at that point they were the top 2 fighters in the division...

That little piece of information always gets lost in the "Mayweather fights scrubs like Baldomir" rant. If Judah had handled his business, Mayweather and Baldomir would have never fought. At that time, he was still building his name and rep to a larger audience and the best way to do that was by winning the major welterweight titles. Now the titles are so irrelevent, he let Shane keep his.

 

[Zeferino]

Okay but there isn't much legacy in fighting Andre Berto right now. Pacquiao is the only guy that brings money and prestige and an audience. Is there anyone other than those two worth mentioning in the welterweight division now? And the difference in stature between Mayweather and Pacquiao and the rest of the division is staggering. Berto's got a belt but he can't even fill arenas in his hometown and he still hasn't beaten anyone.





That little piece of information always gets lost in the "Mayweather fights scrubs like Baldomir" rant. If Judah had handled his business, Mayweather and Baldomir would have never fought. At that time, he was still building his name and rep to a larger audience and the best way to do that was by winning the major welterweight titles. Now the titles are so irrelevent, he let Shane keep his.

Shane only kept his title if he beat Mayweather. Since they weren't fighting for the title and he lost, the title is vacant.

Beating the other champs in your division always does good for your legacy. That was one of the main reasons Mayweather's win over Mosley was so important. Mosley had already been dominated just as badly especially by Vernon Forrest so simply to beat a Mosley that brought nothing to the table was nothing special. Although they didn't fight for the title, Mosley's status as the champion of the division, as represented by the title, was attractive.

Holyfield didn't have any big names in the cruiserweight division to make great fights with but the fact that he beat all the champs at cruiserweight and is arguably considered the best cruiserweight of all time definitely contributes to his legacy.

It's all about fighting in the end and if Mayweather is going to stick around, he should just fight. All the other champs fight. If Pac wasn't too big to fight a contender like Clottey, why can't Mayweather fight Berto? Just get Berto out of the way already if he's so unworthy. That's an easy belt to take for the collection and it would be a step towards dominating a division for the first time in almost ten years for Mayweather.

 

[TJervey]

Okay but there isn't much legacy in fighting Andre Berto right now. Pacquiao is the only guy that brings money and prestige and an audience. Is there anyone other than those two worth mentioning in the welterweight division now? And the difference in stature between Mayweather and Pacquiao and the rest of the division is staggering. Berto's got a belt but he can't even fill arenas in his hometown and he still hasn't beaten anyone.

That little piece of information always gets lost in the "Mayweather fights scrubs like Baldomir" rant. If Judah had handled his business, Mayweather and Baldomir would have never fought. At that time, he was still building his name and rep to a larger audience and the best way to do that was by winning the major welterweight titles. Now the titles are so irrelevent, he let Shane keep his.

Shane only kept his title if he beat Mayweather. Since they weren't fighting for the title and he lost, the title is vacant.

Beating the other champs in your division always does good for your legacy. That was one of the main reasons Mayweather's win over Mosley was so important. Mosley had already been dominated just as badly especially by Vernon Forrest so simply to beat a Mosley that brought nothing to the table was nothing special. Although they didn't fight for the title, Mosley's status as the champion of the division, as represented by the title, was attractive.

Holyfield didn't have any big names in the cruiserweight division to make great fights with but the fact that he beat all the champs at cruiserweight and is arguably considered the best cruiserweight of all time definitely contributes to his legacy.

It's all about fighting in the end and if Mayweather is going to stick around, he should just fight. All the other champs fight. If Pac wasn't too big to fight a contender like Clottey, why can't Mayweather fight Berto? Just get Berto out of the way already if he's so unworthy. That's an easy belt to take for the collection and it would be a step towards dominating a division for the first time in almost ten years for Mayweather.

It USED to do good for your legacy when you would beat the other champions in your division, but now in a day and age where the sanctioning bodies have really fucked things up with greed and politics, it really doesn't matter at this point if the boxer has a belt or not but the public opinion of the fighters. Sure, it sounds good to say 'multiple weight class champion' but honestly, in using your logic, it doesn't make sense for Pac to fight Floyd, because he doesn't have a belt. He should fight Berto since he has a belt and it would do more for his legacy!?!?!?!

The only thing that truly matters at this point is public opinion (especially the educated fight fan) and payday. Due to the sanctioning bodies, there are Dude's running around with belts that are no more than connected club fighters. While Berto is a definite fighter on the rise, it would be meaningless for Floyd to fight him, with at least 2 or 3 other more marketable challenges awaiting him. It might have been a good idea 10 years ago before he became 'Money' Mayweather, but at this point, a fighter of his stature, Pac's stature, will only fight in "EVENTS". That's why a fighter as good as Paul Williams, who I would live to see Floyd fight, will more than likely not get a chance to fight him. Is he good enough to beat him, possibly, but with a loss to Quintana, and a disputable win over Sergio Martinez, who is just building a name for himself at 35, PW doesn't garner the 'EVENT' criteria for such a fight and risk. Don't blame Floyd or Pac, this is the environment the sanctioning bodies instigated with there greed driven foolishness, it's just now the fighters themselves recognize they were being pimped, they were basically like 'Fuck these Niggas!', (i.e. Floyd not wanting Shanes belt).

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Shane only kept his title if he beat Mayweather. Since they weren't fighting for the title and he lost, the title is vacant.

I guess you're purposely helping me make my points. No way a person does that by accident twice.
Floyd didn't want Shane's welterweight title because, at this point in his career, it's meaningless. A chance to win a title in a different weight class is about the only temptation anyone not named Pacquiao could offer Mayweather except Martinez only has the super welterweight title (a title Mayweather had) and the middleweight title (for which he's too small).

Beating the other champs in your division always does good for your legacy. That was one of the main reasons Mayweather's win over Mosley was so important. Mosley had already been dominated just as badly especially by Vernon Forrest so simply to beat a Mosley that brought nothing to the table was nothing special. Although they didn't fight for the title, Mosley's status as the champion of the division, as represented by the title, was attractive.

Holyfield didn't have any big names in the cruiserweight division to make great fights with but the fact that he beat all the champs at cruiserweight and is arguably considered the best cruiserweight of all time definitely contributes to his legacy.

It's all about fighting in the end and if Mayweather is going to stick around, he should just fight. All the other champs fight. If Pac wasn't too big to fight a contender like Clottey, why can't Mayweather fight Berto? Just get Berto out of the way already if he's so unworthy. That's an easy belt to take for the collection and it would be a step towards dominating a division for the first time in almost ten years for Mayweather.

It USED to do good for your legacy when you would beat the other champions in your division, but now in a day and age where the sanctioning bodies have really fucked things up with greed and politics, it really doesn't matter at this point if the boxer has a belt or not but the public opinion of the fighters. Sure, it sounds good to say 'multiple weight class champion' but honestly, in using your logic, it doesn't make sense for Pac to fight Floyd, because he doesn't have a belt. He should fight Berto since he has a belt and it would do more for his legacy!?!?!?!

The only thing that truly matters at this point is public opinion (especially the educated fight fan) and payday. Due to the sanctioning bodies, there are Dude's running around with belts that are no more than connected club fighters. While Berto is a definite fighter on the rise, it would be meaningless for Floyd to fight him, with at least 2 or 3 other more marketable challenges awaiting him. It might have been a good idea 10 years ago before he became 'Money' Mayweather, but at this point, a fighter of his stature, Pac's stature, will only fight in "EVENTS". That's why a fighter as good as Paul Williams, who I would live to see Floyd fight, will more than likely not get a chance to fight him. Is he good enough to beat him, possibly, but with a loss to Quintana, and a disputable win over Sergio Martinez, who is just building a name for himself at 35, PW doesn't garner the 'EVENT' criteria for such a fight and risk. Don't blame Floyd or Pac, this is the environment the sanctioning bodies instigated with there greed driven foolishness, it's just now the fighters themselves recognize they were being pimped, they were basically like 'Fuck these Niggas!', (i.e. Floyd not wanting Shanes belt).

This.

I wanted to add more but it just would have been redundant.

 

[Zeferino]

It USED to do good for your legacy when you would beat the other champions in your division, but now in a day and age where the sanctioning bodies have really fucked things up with greed and politics, it really doesn't matter at this point if the boxer has a belt or not but the public opinion of the fighters. Sure, it sounds good to say 'multiple weight class champion' but honestly, in using your logic, it doesn't make sense for Pac to fight Floyd, because he doesn't have a belt. He should fight Berto since he has a belt and it would do more for his legacy!?!?!?!

The only thing that truly matters at this point is public opinion (especially the educated fight fan) and payday. Due to the sanctioning bodies, there are Dude's running around with belts that are no more than connected club fighters. While Berto is a definite fighter on the rise, it would be meaningless for Floyd to fight him, with at least 2 or 3 other more marketable challenges awaiting him. It might have been a good idea 10 years ago before he became 'Money' Mayweather, but at this point, a fighter of his stature, Pac's stature, will only fight in "EVENTS". That's why a fighter as good as Paul Williams, who I would live to see Floyd fight, will more than likely not get a chance to fight him. Is he good enough to beat him, possibly, but with a loss to Quintana, and a disputable win over Sergio Martinez, who is just building a name for himself at 35, PW doesn't garner the 'EVENT' criteria for such a fight and risk. Don't blame Floyd or Pac, this is the environment the sanctioning bodies instigated with there greed driven foolishness, it's just now the fighters themselves recognize they were being pimped, they were basically like 'Fuck these Niggas!', (i.e. Floyd not wanting Shanes belt).

Mayweather just beat the champ, Mosley, so he is the champ if even in the lineal sense which has always mattered. Therefore it does makes sense for Pac to beat Mayweather. Furthermore, there's more than one way to skin a cat. Even if Mayweather hadn't fought Mosley, he would have still been a viable opponent for Pac since he's held in such high regard. I don't agree with this "the belts mean nothing" theory because they still mean something to the majority of boxers. Also, I'm not sure what any of this has to do with being a "multiple weight class champion" as you put it. I'm talking about Mayweather taking care of his own weight class.

You said that it would be foolish for Floyd to concentrate on Berto with 2 or 3 other marketable fights waiting for him. I definitely agree but the only fight that I hear is supposedly worthy enough for Mayweather is a fight with Pac. Which are the other 2 marketable fights waiting for him? Regardless, I agree that the sanctioning bodies share part of the blame because of the high sanctioning fees and such. I think the sanctioning bodies do maintain a sort of order in the sport and I think it would be anarchy without them. If everyone just said "fuck it" and just fought who they wanted to fight, didn't defend titles, didn't bother to fight other champs, then the definition of what a champion is would be very blurry.

 

[Zeferino]

I guess you're purposely helping me make my points. No way a person does that by accident twice.
Floyd didn't want Shane's welterweight title because, at this point in his career, it's meaningless. A chance to win a title in a different weight class is about the only temptation anyone not named Pacquiao could offer Mayweather except Martinez only has the super welterweight title (a title Mayweather had) and the middleweight title (for which he's too small).

I don't know about all that. I'm not battling with you. I'm simply stating my opinion and logic. Possibly we essentially agree on certain points but word them in different ways.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Mayweather just beat the champ, Mosley, so he is the champ if even in the lineal sense which has always mattered. Therefore it does makes sense for Pac to beat Mayweather. Furthermore, there's more than one way to skin a cat. Even if Mayweather hadn't fought Mosley, he would have still been a viable opponent for Pac since he's held in such high regard. I don't agree with this "the belts mean nothing" theory because they still mean something to the majority of boxers. Also, I'm not sure what any of this has to do with being a "multiple weight class champion" as you put it. I'm talking about Mayweather taking care of his own weight class.

You said that it would be foolish for Floyd to concentrate on Berto with 2 or 3 other marketable fights waiting for him. I definitely agree but the only fight that I hear is supposedly worthy enough for Mayweather is a fight with Pac. Which are the other 2 marketable fights waiting for him? Regardless, I agree that the sanctioning bodies share part of the blame because of the high sanctioning fees and such. I think the sanctioning bodies do maintain a sort of order in the sport and I think it would be anarchy without them. If everyone just said "fuck it" and just fought who they wanted to fight, didn't defend titles, didn't bother to fight other champs, then the definition of what a champion is would be very blurry.

I won't say the belts are meaningless to everyone or even to most fighters. The WBC, WBA, and IBF are valuable titles with decades of history but the rest are trinkets. When you get to the level of Oscar or Floyd or Pacquiao, the importance of the titles is minimal and they become afterthoughts.
To a young fighter like Berto or a guy's who is really coming on strong like Martinez, being a champion of the major promotions is very important. When Williams couldn't get anyone to fight in before the Margarito fight, he purposely fought WBO fights to be the number one contender to force a fight, so the titles can be used to make fights as well. I don't want you thinking I think all the titles are garbage.

I don't think there are any other marketable fights for Floyd Mayweather or Manny Pacquiao at this point. We just saw that when Manny, who is supposed to be this fan friendly, exciting boxer, fought a lesser known Josh Clottey, we (hardcore fans) were interested and intrigued but the fight, while it drew a large live crowd, was a relative dud (700k). Floyd and Manny have cleaned out the division of marketable fighters by beating Mosley and Cotto. Antonio Margarito may get a fight with with Pac but not because of anything he's done but because they're both Arum fighters.

I don't know about all that. I'm not battling with you. I'm simply stating my opinion and logic. Possibly we essentially agree on certain points but word them in different ways.

Possibly, even probably.

 

[TJervey]

Mayweather just beat the champ, Mosley, so he is the champ if even in the lineal sense which has always mattered. Therefore it does makes sense for Pac to beat Mayweather. Furthermore, there's more than one way to skin a cat. Even if Mayweather hadn't fought Mosley, he would have still been a viable opponent for Pac since he's held in such high regard. I don't agree with this "the belts mean nothing" theory because they still mean something to the majority of boxers. Also, I'm not sure what any of this has to do with being a "multiple weight class champion" as you put it. I'm talking about Mayweather taking care of his own weight class.

You said that it would be foolish for Floyd to concentrate on Berto with 2 or 3 other marketable fights waiting for him. I definitely agree but the only fight that I hear is supposedly worthy enough for Mayweather is a fight with Pac. Which are the other 2 marketable fights waiting for him? Regardless, I agree that the sanctioning bodies share part of the blame because of the high sanctioning fees and such. I think the sanctioning bodies do maintain a sort of order in the sport and I think it would be anarchy without them. If everyone just said "fuck it" and just fought who they wanted to fight, didn't defend titles, didn't bother to fight other champs, then the definition of what a champion is would be very blurry.

I feel it should be one belt per weight class. How the hell can you have 3+ champions per weight class, designated 'World' champions.... doesn't make sense. Have one World champion, maybe a few regional champions, for lack of a better term, and that way, we would have one rating system, the politics of governing bodies would be limited, and we would have 'True' champions. Also, the other challenges for Floyd, which make less sense for him, would be a martinez or williams. While neither of them would warrant Pac type money, I believe both would extend more interest than a Berto fight.

 

[Zeferino]

I feel it should be one belt per weight class. How the hell can you have 3+ champions per weight class, designated 'World' champions.... doesn't make sense. Have one World champion, maybe a few regional champions, for lack of a better term, and that way, we would have one rating system, the politics of governing bodies would be limited, and we would have 'True' champions. Also, the other challenges for Floyd, which make less sense for him, would be a martinez or williams. While neither of them would warrant Pac type money, I believe both would extend more interest than a Berto fight.

Agreed. The so called non profit sanctioning bodies have contributed to the chaos with all the different interim champs, diamond belts, etc. Now we have boxers ignoring the belts altogether. Things are just getting out of hand.