Is Floyd top 5 of all time????

[Spectrum]

Mosley was getting hurt but at no time did I think he was going to drop...

I dont know man..there was a moment in that 9th or 10th round that Mosley caught another straigh right and he was looking really hurt where if Floyd would have really attacked he might have had the chance to hurt him enough to drop him. Im not saying that he was hurt already where he was ready to drop...but there was a time where Shane was stumbling and his legs were really giving on him after catching a few straight rights...

 

[Zeferino]

But this is completely and utter nonsense. Mosley put up an offer to fight both Margarito and Cotto and TOP RANK killed the deal. That is a fact. Margarito has always been overrated and he is exactly the type of fighter that Floyd would feast on all fight long in an easy UD. Come on man... lets not forget about the politics in boxing. That wasnt Leonard running from Pryor...this was Arun killing the fight.

But Mosley fought both Margarito and Cotto. I'm not sure what your point is there. Whether Margarito was overrated or not, and I definitely believe he was, he was definitely held in higher regard than Baldomir and will be historically even with the plaster wrap scandal.

No one can accuse Leonard of running from Pryor because he fought so many other guys. That's like accusing Roy Jones of running from DM or accusing Holyfield of not fighting the Klits. However, with Mayweather there's a whole list of dudes that he didn't fight.

 

[Zeferino]

I dont know man..there was a moment in that 9th or 10th round that Mosley caught another straigh right and he was looking really hurt where if Floyd would have really attacked he might have had the chance to hurt him enough to drop him. Im not saying that he was hurt already where he was ready to drop...but there was a time where Shane was stumbling and his legs were really giving on him after catching a few straight rights...

Shane is just lucky that Mayweather did not tear into him and just take him out. Mosley seemed almost powerless and very vulnerable at that stage of the fight. He should thank Mayweather for not embarassing him.

 

[Alaskanredman]

Dude, again I am not a Floyd fan but the point is pointless!!! That's like lessening Michael Jordan's career and championships because he didn't win them against the Celtic who won like 10 straight, or saying Karl Malone is not a HOFer because he didn't Play against Bill Russell, or Shaq isn't a HOFer because he didn't play against Wilt or Kareem, you can't blame a fighter because he didn't have those types of fighters to fight. Also, for the record, it is difficult to say who he has fought and who will be in the HOF because most of his contemporaries aren't eligible yet. IMO Oscar and Shane will be HOF, as well as Gatti. Laugh, but Gatti has had a similar career and impact as Jake LaMotta, and Rock Graziano, and both of them are in the HOF.

Damn TJervey making a lot of sense lately... but these nigga's don't get it.

 

[TJervey]

Why not fight Andre Berto? If the guy is so easy, just take his belt and move on to the next guy. So what, now Mayweather shouldn't fight Berto because he's supposedly green? Berto has a belt. If he's green, that's his problem. If Mayweather continues to make excuses like this guy's too green, this guy's not popular, this guy has too many losses, this guy's undefeated but green, etc, then he'll continue as he has the past few years without dominating his own division.

I don't know about you, but I like to see undisputed champions. I think more title unifications are necessary.

This fight doesn't make any sense for Floyd. 1) He doesn't care about or need a belt to validate himself, as he proved by not paying the sanctioning fee to fight for Shane's belt and 2) If he beats Berto, he should have, if he loses, and Berto would be a live underdog for a minute, there is not enough reward for the risk. Fellas got to realize Floyd will be 34, he's not getting any younger, so at this stage it doesn't make sense to take fights against younger guys for less Cheese, when there are bigger money fights out there with more intrigue. Who would you rather see him fight, Berto or...Pac, Martinez, Williams (even though I believe Williams and Martinez are too big for him). Money Dude, Money. 5 years ago, yeah, clean out the division, now, get paid and retire...

 

[Zeferino]

Did LowerNupe get banned?

 

[Alaskanredman]

I dont know man..there was a moment in that 9th or 10th round that Mosley caught another straigh right and he was looking really hurt where if Floyd would have really attacked he might have had the chance to hurt him enough to drop him. Im not saying that he was hurt already where he was ready to drop...but there was a time where Shane was stumbling and his legs were really giving on him after catching a few straight rights...

At the most I would see Shane stumbling like Floyd did, but holding on for life until he got his mind right.

 

[Spectrum]

I feel you but overtraining can also cause a fighter to be less than 100% in his reflexes, etc. Bouncing around doesn't mean he didn't over train, he's a professional athlete so overtraining doesn't mean collapsing, but it means that your thinking, reflexes, muscle memory, etc. could be affected. Add to the equation fighting a Dude like Floyd, reputation for disaster.

That with the long layout between fights could have done it.... that is true.

 

[Spectrum]

Real shit, I don't even know where to place Floyd but Leonard, Hearns and etc. are romanticized like Floyd couldn't fight in the same league based on the fact that this generation hasn't produce as many thorough niggas as there used to be back in their day.

I grew up on Hearns, Hagler, and Sugar Ray Leonard. Floyd is in the same league as those fighters and could beat them. Im not saying he definitely would. Im saying he could beat those fighters.

 

[Zeferino]

That with the long layout between fights could have done it.... that is true.

Hey, hey, hey, stop making excuses. Floyd fought a prime Mosley!

 

[Spectrum]

Fighting Berto is cool in my book but these niggas need to cut the shit like that'll make them give Floyd props. Manny is the only threat and only fight worth chasing at welterweight or jr. middleweight.

Exactly. I like Berto...but to make the claim that Mayweather would be adding to his legacy by beating Berto is ridiculous. All the critics would say he chose the green inexperienced fighter who has never won a big fight on the grand stage...

 

[Zeferino]

This fight doesn't make any sense for Floyd. 1) He doesn't care about or need a belt to validate himself, as he proved by not paying the sanctioning fee to fight for Shane's belt and 2) If he beats Berto, he should have, if he loses, and Berto would be a live underdog for a minute, there is not enough reward for the risk. Fellas got to realize Floyd will be 34, he's not getting any younger, so at this stage it doesn't make sense to take fights against younger guys for less Cheese, when there are bigger money fights out there with more intrigue. Who would you rather see him fight, Berto or...Pac, Martinez, Williams (even though I believe Williams and Martinez are too big for him). Money Dude, Money. 5 years ago, yeah, clean out the division, now, get paid and retire...

Well, I guess Mayweather skipped the 5 years ago part and just jumped to get paid and retire. If that's all his fans expect of him than no wonder he won't bother to dominate a division.

 

[Zeferino]

Exactly. I like Berto...but to make the claim that Mayweather would be adding to his legacy by beating Berto is ridiculous. All the critics would say he chose the green inexperienced fighter who has never won a big fight on the grand stage...

That's bullshit. How green was Davey Moore when Duran beat the hell out of him? That is one of Duran's major wins and the excuse the Moore was too green is rarely if ever brought up to discredit Duran's victory. How about when David Reid got the hell beaten out of him by Tito Trinidad? No one says Reid was too green for Trinidad, they just say he got his ass kicked because Tito was fucking destructive at junior middle. Same goes for Vargas. Once a guy gets a title, green or not, he has a license to get his ass kicked just like anyone else.

 

[Spectrum]

It is because of this point that I can't give Floyd equal status, not to say he isn't as skilled, it's just that even if he'd fought all of the top guys available to him, he would still not have the pedigree they had in the 70's and 80's.

This is what I agree with you on. This is an extreme....well the most extreme of all because this era in the heavyweight division is at an all-time embarrassing low but being the heavyweight champ and cleaning out the division would be completely meaningless now.

It is hard to hold an era AGAINST any athlete as you can only beat the fighters who are fighting...but being at the top when the class has several great fighters holds more weight in my opinion.

 

[Spectrum]

yeah! a post with some common sense. Props on you mentioning my first favorite fighter, Wilfredo Benitez. I cried when Leonard beat him. I can honestly say there are two fighters I hated Leonard and RJJ. Leonard because he beat everyone I liked and RJJ because he was overrated when he moved up to light heavy weight and got a universal pass for fighting bums.

ah man...You hated Leonard... Leonard was my mans... but I didnt like how they robbed Hagler man

 

[TJervey]

That's bullshit. How green was Davey Moore when Duran beat the hell out of him? That is one of Duran's major wins and the excuse the Moore was too green is rarely if ever brought up to discredit Duran's victory. How about when David Reid got the hell beaten out of him by Tito Trinidad? No one says Reid was too green for Trinidad, they just say he got his ass kicked because Tito was fucking destructive at junior middle. Same goes for Vargas. Once a guy gets a title, green or not, he has a license to get his ass kicked just like anyone else.

You are actually wrong, Dude, Reid had 14 FIGHTS WHEN HE FOUGHT TRINIDAD!!!! There was an outcry when he signed to fight him, and look at what happened to him and Vargas after they fought Trinidad. They were both never the same after the ass whippings they too!?!?! Not to say Floyd will have the same impact, but at this point, a guy like Berto looks like the FUTURE of the division. To put him in against a master like Floyd right now would be detrimental to his future and his present. Shit, even Shane is questioning his next career move after taking a psychological ass whipping, which are worse then physical sometimes. With what Berto is dealing with, the earthquake and all, his people need to keep him away from PBF or any of the top tier in the division. Let him still fuck up the middle rung, and when it's his turn, he can control the division. Why the hell risk shit fucking with a Floyd right now?!?!? Doesn't make sense for him or Floyd!!!

 

[Spectrum]

But Mosley fought both Margarito and Cotto. I'm not sure what your point is there. Whether Margarito was overrated or not, and I definitely believe he was, he was definitely held in higher regard than Baldomir and will be historically even with the plaster wrap scandal.

No one can accuse Leonard of running from Pryor because he fought so many other guys. That's like accusing Roy Jones of running from DM or accusing Holyfield of not fighting the Klits. However, with Mayweather there's a whole list of dudes that he didn't fight.

My point was that Floyd didnt fight Margarito and Cotto because Arun killed the deal. Dont tell me you dont know about all the issues that Floyd has historically had with Top Rank. Then Arun floated the story that Floyd was scared of Margarito to help build up Margarito in the mass media.

That fight didnt happen because Arun didnt want Floyd fighting both his number 1 and number 2 fighters back to back.

Everyone has accused Leonard of running from Pryor. He still gets asked about that shit to this day. I listened to an interview a few months back where he was asked if he was really running from Pryor and Sugar Ray said that tommy hearns still calls him randomly just to ask him what his weight is

 

[Alaskanredman]

This is what I agree with you on. This is an extreme....well the most extreme of all because this era in the heavyweight division is at an all-time embarrassing low but being the heavyweight champ and cleaning out the division would be completely meaningless now.

It is hard to hold an era AGAINST any athlete as you can only beat the fighters who are fighting...but being at the top when the class has several great fighters holds more weight in my opinion.

Word... Vladdy Klitscko can beat up all the guys at Heavy right now. If he did it, he still isn't fucking with Louis, Ali, Foreman and etc.

His only move is to let one of these cats like Haye bubble up into a name to set up a big fight.

 

[Spectrum]

Shane is just lucky that Mayweather did not tear into him and just take him out. Mosley seemed almost powerless and very vulnerable at that stage of the fight. He should thank Mayweather for not embarassing him.

Yeah. And Im glad it didnt happen actually man. I didnt want to see the KO or see his corner throw the towel in...and his corner was very close to just throwing it in

 

[Alaskanredman]

Yeah. And Im glad it didnt happen actually man. I didnt want to see the KO or see his corner throw the towel in...and his corner was very close to just throwing it in

In reality I don't know how Shane or any fighter on that Hall-of-Famer level could continuing fighting after a performance when your trainer was about to throw in the towel. That shit hurt my heart...

 

[Spectrum]

Hey, hey, hey, stop making excuses. Floyd fought a prime Mosley!

I need to watch the fight over. SOMETHING was effecting him from rounds 3-5... Mosley is too well conditioned for it to be just getting gassed..... but it makes sense that it could have possibly been overtraining (but he did get his wind back) or he took a body shot that we didnt see. He definitely didnt lose his speed or power...i mean handspeed, footspeed, etc... was all there..but something had him for a couple of rounds..

But he definitely wasnt a shot fighter. DLH was shot fighter in that Pacman fight... it wasnt that Shane looked bad...it was just that Floyd looked really sharp.

im out though...you cats got me on here all day talking about boxing....shit..i gotta finish up some work

 

[Spectrum]

That's bullshit. How green was Davey Moore when Duran beat the hell out of him? That is one of Duran's major wins and the excuse the Moore was too green is rarely if ever brought up to discredit Duran's victory. How about when David Reid got the hell beaten out of him by Tito Trinidad? No one says Reid was too green for Trinidad, they just say he got his ass kicked because Tito was fucking destructive at junior middle. Same goes for Vargas. Once a guy gets a title, green or not, he has a license to get his ass kicked just like anyone else.

I dont think you are understanding what I am saying.

You could have a very good reason for validating the fight.

However, 99 percent of casual boxing fans, and the media would be saying that Floyd took the easy route by fighting Berto.

Come on man...you KNOW that excuse would be made as soon as that possible fight was even discussed in the media. They would say he is scared of Pacman, PW, etc and taking the easy fight with Berto..

 

[TJervey]

My point was that Floyd didnt fight Margarito and Cotto because Arun killed the deal. Dont tell me you dont know about all the issues that Floyd has historically had with Top Rank. Then Arun floated the story that Floyd was scared of Margarito to help build up Margarito in the mass media.

That fight didnt happen because Arun didnt want Floyd fighting both his number 1 and number 2 fighters back to back.

Everyone has accused Leonard of running from Pryor. He still gets asked about that shit to this day. I listened to an interview a few months back where he was asked if he was really running from Pryor and Sugar Ray said that tommy hearns still calls him randomly just to ask him what his weight is

This shit fucks me up with Leonard too, frankly, I don't think he ran from Pryor, I see him against Pryor like a PBF vs Berto Fight, not enough there for him so he said fuck it!?!?!? As for Berto, I see the kid Saul Alvarez giving him trouble, what Berto needs to do is begin to fuck with his peers, like an Alvarez, and leave the old heads alone. Floyd is approaching the same flow as BHop, why fuck with a young lion for no cheese when you can make millions on your name recognition alone. That's why BHop ain't fucking with Dawson, do you think he really gives a damn about cleaning out the division??!??! All about the cheese. Do you think PBF gives a fuck about cleaning up the division, fuck that!!!!! Get that Money Cuz!!

 

[Alaskanredman]

This shit fucks me up with Leonard too, frankly, I don't think he ran from Pryor, I see him against Pryor like a PBF vs Berto Fight, not enough there for him so he said fuck it!?!?!? As for Berto, I see the kid Saul Alvarez giving him trouble, what Berto needs to do is begin to fuck with his peers, like an Alvarez, and leave the old heads alone. Floyd is approaching the same flow as BHop, why fuck with a young lion for no cheese when you can make millions on your name recognition alone. That's why BHop ain't fucking with Dawson, do you think he really gives a damn about cleaning out the division??!??! All about the cheese. Do you think PBF gives a fuck about cleaning up the division, fuck that!!!!! Get that Money Cuz!!

I was waiting for someone to bring up Alvarez.... watch next these niggas will be talking about Floyd having to fight that nigga too.

 

[TJervey]

I was waiting for someone to bring up Alvarez.... watch next these niggas will be talking about Floyd having to fight that nigga too.

Young fella did look good though, even though he was matched well.. but he is solid to be 19.

 

[Spectrum]

Young fella did look good though, even though he was matched well.. but he is solid to be 19.

Yeah..he has a lot of fights under his belt for only being 19 though...but the rules are different than..can go pro at 15

 

[Zeferino]

I dont think you are understanding what I am saying.

You could have a very good reason for validating the fight.

However, 99 percent of casual boxing fans, and the media would be saying that Floyd took the easy route by fighting Berto.

Come on man...you KNOW that excuse would be made as soon as that possible fight was even discussed in the media. They would say he is scared of Pacman, PW, etc and taking the easy fight with Berto..

I'm just saying he should fight them all or most of them. If he were to fight Pac, PW, and Berto no one could say anything. Those are just three fights. As a fan of boxing, I would just like to see Floyd against those three styles. It's not that I just want to see him get beat. Regardless of Mosley's age, that fight, to me, was the only acceptable opponent Mayweather had in years. I thought the fights with Marquez and Hatton and Gatti, and Baldomir and Judah were all just ridiculous and meaningless.

 

[TJervey]

I'm just saying he should fight them all or most of them. If he were to fight Pac, PW, and Berto no one could say anything. Those are just three fights. As a fan of boxing, I would just like to see Floyd against those three styles. It's not that I just want to see him get beat. Regardless of Mosley's age, that fight, to me, was the only acceptable opponent Mayweather had in years. I thought the fights with Marquez and Hatton and Gatti, and Baldomir and Judah were all just ridiculous and meaningless.

Got a question for you, what is/was your view on Pac fighting, Diaz, Oscar, Hatton, Cotto, Clottey, Jorge Solis? Just Curious...

 

[Zeferino]

You are actually wrong, Dude, Reid had 14 FIGHTS WHEN HE FOUGHT TRINIDAD!!!! There was an outcry when he signed to fight him, and look at what happened to him and Vargas after they fought Trinidad. They were both never the same after the ass whippings they too!?!?! Not to say Floyd will have the same impact, but at this point, a guy like Berto looks like the FUTURE of the division. To put him in against a master like Floyd right now would be detrimental to his future and his present. Shit, even Shane is questioning his next career move after taking a psychological ass whipping, which are worse then physical sometimes. With what Berto is dealing with, the earthquake and all, his people need to keep him away from PBF or any of the top tier in the division. Let him still fuck up the middle rung, and when it's his turn, he can control the division. Why the hell risk shit fucking with a Floyd right now?!?!? Doesn't make sense for him or Floyd!!!

Trinidad ruined a lot of careers regardless of ring tenure. Whether there was an outcry or not when the fight was signed, I have never seen any widespread criticism of Trinidad's work at 154 for having fought Vargas and Reid. Vargas and Reid were the champs at 154 and those were the guys that Trinidad had to go through to take over that division. As a matter of fact, Trinidad rose on the pound for pound rankings after destroying Vargas and was at an all time career high at 154lbs. Therefore, I can't see how you can say that fighting Reid and Vargas hurt Trinidad's credibility and caused him to be criticized more. That's just false. Davey Moore HAD JUST TWELVE FIGHTS when he fought Duran and Duran's knockout of him is highly lauded! How do you explain that?

Why is Floyd the only guy that can be an all time great without at least dominating his own division? So much to that point that you say he is top 10 one of the greatest of all time? Floyd is not even undisputed at 147, his own division.

 

[TJervey]

Trinidad ruined a lot of careers regardless of ring tenure. Whether there was an outcry or not when the fight was signed, I have never seen any widespread criticism of Trinidad's work at 154 for having fought Vargas and Reid. Vargas and Reid were the champs at 154 and those were the guys that Trinidad had to go through to take over that division. As a matter of fact, Trinidad rose on the pound for pound rankings after destroying Vargas and was at an all time career high at 154lbs. Therefore, I can't see how you can say that fighting Reid and Vargas hurt Trinidad's credibility and caused him to be criticized more. That's just false. Davey Moore HAD JUST TWELVE FIGHTS when he fought Duran and Duran's knockout of him is highly lauded! How do you explain that?

Why is Floyd the only guy that can be an all time great without at least dominating his own division? So much to that point that you say he is top 10 one of the greatest of all time? Floyd is not even undisputed at 147, his own division.

I guess you don't remember how weak the 154 lbs division was back then. How else could a fighter with 14 fights be a belt holder? Also, Tito is in my opinion an all time great at Welterweight, he has just taken a few too many ass whippings at other weights to be considered an all time great otherwise. Duran's knockout of Davey Moore was reflected due to the viciousness of it, but theres no way you can say that it's counted in his top 5 wins?!?!? Again, I am definitely not arguing with you about Floyd's lack of taking on the best challenges during his career, I'm just saying at this point it is probably too late to expect him to start now, as his career is winding down. If at 34, I can command 10's of millions of dollars to pick and choose my fights, but I want to 'Prove' something to people, fighting for 2-3 mill, that's just not intelligent. Also, you still, even though he hasn't fought everybody, cannot take away the gifts of this Dude. come to thing of it, shane was coming off of a sort of layoff when he fought Margarito I think, and he was a monster. Floyd took him out of his game, and I believe he was over trained, but you cannot take away the fact that Floyd dominated him, showed versatility in becoming the aggressor, which I know Shane didn't prepare for, and took the fight to him.

 

[TJervey]

Trinidad ruined a lot of careers regardless of ring tenure. Whether there was an outcry or not when the fight was signed, I have never seen any widespread criticism of Trinidad's work at 154 for having fought Vargas and Reid. Vargas and Reid were the champs at 154 and those were the guys that Trinidad had to go through to take over that division. As a matter of fact, Trinidad rose on the pound for pound rankings after destroying Vargas and was at an all time career high at 154lbs. Therefore, I can't see how you can say that fighting Reid and Vargas hurt Trinidad's credibility and caused him to be criticized more. That's just false. Davey Moore HAD JUST TWELVE FIGHTS when he fought Duran and Duran's knockout of him is highly lauded! How do you explain that?

Why is Floyd the only guy that can be an all time great without at least dominating his own division? So much to that point that you say he is top 10 one of the greatest of all time? Floyd is not even undisputed at 147, his own division.

Also, who else's career did Trinidad ruin? Joppy? Already on the down swing...

 

[Zeferino]

Got a question for you, what is/was your view on Pac fighting, Diaz, Oscar, Hatton, Cotto, Clottey, Jorge Solis? Just Curious...

Diaz: Virtually meaningless, just a showcase to see how he looked at the weight.

Oscar: Meaningful only because people expected Oscar to destroy Pac. I always thought Oscar was ready for the taking since back when Mayweather fought him so I wasn't surprised that Pac beat him. I was surprised by Pac's defense in that fight.

Hatton: Meaningful because Pac beat the top guy at 140lbs and in his own weight class. Can't argue with that? Just like Mayweather beat Mosley, the top guy at his weight class. Was Hatton past his best when he fought Pac? Probably. Was Mosley past his best when he fought Mayweather? Probably.

Cotto: Meaningful only in the sense of cleaning up the division. However, Pac did not face a prime Cotto IMO because I believe as I said before the fight that Cotto was damaged goods after the Margarito fight. That's why I don't think Pac's victory was so amazing that we have to say he was on PED's to win.

Clottey: Meaningless fight. Clottey sucks ass and is another Malignaggi IMO. Guys that can never win the big one. At least he was a real welterweight.

Jorge Solis: I never saw that fight or that fighter.

 

[Zeferino]

I guess you don't remember how weak the 154 lbs division was back then. How else could a fighter with 14 fights be a belt holder? Also, Tito is in my opinion an all time great at Welterweight, he has just taken a few too many ass whippings at other weights to be considered an all time great otherwise. Duran's knockout of Davey Moore was reflected due to the viciousness of it, but theres no way you can say that it's counted in his top 5 wins?!?!? Again, I am definitely not arguing with you about Floyd's lack of taking on the best challenges during his career, I'm just saying at this point it is probably too late to expect him to start now, as his career is winding down. If at 34, I can command 10's of millions of dollars to pick and choose my fights, but I want to 'Prove' something to people, fighting for 2-3 mill, that's just not intelligent. Also, you still, even though he hasn't fought everybody, cannot take away the gifts of this Dude. come to thing of it, shane was coming off of a sort of layoff when he fought Margarito I think, and he was a monster. Floyd took him out of his game, and I believe he was over trained, but you cannot take away the fact that Floyd dominated him, showed versatility in becoming the aggressor, which I know Shane didn't prepare for, and took the fight to him.

Of course Duran's knockout of Davey Moore is counted in his top 5 wins, that's my whole point. You really need to understand the circumstances surrounding that fight to understand why that win was so big, not just in the United States, but in Panama. Shit, in Latin America that is definitely considered a top 5 win for Duran for many reasons you probably have no idea about unless you lived there.

I'm not thinking about how weak 154 was when Tito was there because that's not the point. the point is Tito's wins were not discredited because the other champs he unified with had fewer fights or were supposedly "green". A "green" Vargas had no trouble disposing of Ike Quartey, by the way. Tito actually rose on the pound for pound lists after these victories.

 

[TJervey]

Diaz: Virtually meaningless, just a showcase to see how he looked at the weight.

Oscar: Meaningful only because people expected Oscar to destroy Pac. I always thought Oscar was ready for the taking since back when Mayweather fought him so I wasn't surprised that Pac beat him. I was surprised by Pac's defense in that fight.

Hatton: Meaningful because Pac beat the top guy at 140lbs and in his own weight class. Can't argue with that? Just like Mayweather beat Mosley, the top guy at his weight class. Was Hatton past his best when he fought Pac? Probably. Was Mosley past his best when he fought Mayweather? Probably.

Cotto: Meaningful only in the sense of cleaning up the division. However, Pac did not face a prime Cotto IMO because I believe as I said before the fight that Cotto was damaged goods after the Margarito fight. That's why I don't think Pac's victory was so amazing that we have to say he was on PED's to win.

Clottey: Meaningless fight. Clottey sucks ass and is another Malignaggi IMO. Guys that can never win the big one. At least he was a real welterweight.

Jorge Solis: I never saw that fight or that fighter.

My point exactly. All due respect dude but you are being a hypocrite... How is it cool and meaningful for Pac to fight the SAME GUYS, AFTER PBF BEAT THEM, and they were meaningless fights for Floyd but relevant for Pac. Shit, why isn't there an outcry for Pac to clean up the division? It doesn't make sense what you are saying. Even though Pac is my favorite fighter at this point, he has fought his share of bums, he moves up and takes the easiest challenge in David Diaz, but he is revered for his win, he fights Oscar and Hatton AFTER Floyd beat them, but he is cool. And, he made Cotto meet him at a catch weight, instead of fighting him at the limit!?!??! But that's cool. If Floyd did those things, we would have 50 threads calling him names and shit! How can a fight be relevant for one fighter and not the other, and BOTH fighters are in the debate for PFP best right now? Help me understand that Dude?

 

[TJervey]

Of course Duran's knockout of Davey Moore is counted in his top 5 wins, that's my whole point. You really need to understand the circumstances surrounding that fight to understand why that win was so big, not just in the United States, but in Panama. Shit, in Latin America that is definitely considered a top 5 win for Duran for many reasons you probably have no idea about unless you lived there.

I'm not thinking about how weak 154 was when Tito was there because that's not the point. the point is Tito's wins were not discredited because the other champs he unified with had fewer fights or were supposedly "green". A "green" Vargas had no trouble disposing of Ike Quartey, by the way. Tito actually rose on the pound for pound lists after these victories.

Dude, Tito is not garnering any HOF buzz due to those wins. He is more respected for his DeLaHoya loss than his Reid, Vargas wins... Those wins proved nothing.