This is my last reply and I'm done. We've both expressed our thoughts on the topic and we aren't really adding anything of value.
The theard was about Cam's comments and while I didn't totally agree with his reasons/thoughts which some are saying were hyped here. I agree with identifying as Black culturally as opposed to your view point. Being respectful of someone's decision/thoughts doesn't mean I agree with it. In this instance I understand the point of view. I've stated multiple times I have a preference, but it's not that deep. I'm indifferent in that I don't care what you choose to call yourself. I'm not going to force my beliefs on to others or even high-level claim it as correct. All I'm interested in doing is explaining my point of view. I never have and likely will never refer to myself as African American. It's not out of disrespect to Africa and i acknowledge being a descendant. However, I value or take pride with the culture we've built here just like other African descendents globally.
again my argument and contention isnt to you since youre ok with both.. my points are people who refuse to acknowledge their african roots entirely.
In my opinion it's different for other African descendents, because they are the majority so their experience is slightly different than ours. They didn't need to build their esteem by directly identifying with Africa in the same manner we have in the US. For instance, regardless of the issues in Haiti, they still take great pride in being Haitian. We dont generally hold the US in the same regard, but to be fair most people here general aren't exactly patriots. People usually take pride in their respective state/city that the US as a whole.
the carribean examples are NQR because haitians dont promote their color in their identity either..you dont say black haitians you generally dont even think of them like that. No other country's people hypenates the way americans do. Its important that the immigrants that come to this country remember where they come from and they wear it openly.
And know this...this issue did NOT start with us...
There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all ... The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English-Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian-Americans or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality, than with the other citizens of the American Republic ... There is no such thing as a hyphenated American who is a good American. The only man who is a good American is the man who is an American and nothing else.
- 1915, President Theodore Roosevelt in speaking to the largely Irish Catholic Knights of Columbus at Carnegie Hall on Columbus Day
note in 1915 there were no black americans...you how we and they identified ourselves back then? negroes/niggas Guess what we mostly identify ourselves as today....give you a hint..its not negro...
Yes, there are people who generally don't practice in all aspects of their homelands culture. However, you are more so proving my point with that statement. If you are saying they identify as a US citizen, then exactly what are you debating? End of the day that is what I've been saying except with a focus on our achievements/experience. I don't even agree with that stance sense there are plenty of people who take part in their culture. For example, the Africans I know brought their dishes to work daily, on average they really into soccer, still listened to music from their artists, spoke the language, seriously practiced the religion etc.. in some cases, their kids were still in their homeland or the kids went back and forth between the US and their homeland, so they know the culture. It was more or less the same with people who I know from other places like India, Greece, Argentina, Brazil, China, Haiti, Barbados, the Philippines and Mexico off the top of my head. While my experience may not be universally true and I agree it doesn't always happen, we are not going to act as though this is a minority. Some of these groups have their own towns, generally live in certain areas and still form communities. Allegedly, part of the reason for Jeezy getting a divorce was related to cultural differences with his ex. So, even in situations where someone may not follow every tradition, they'll still uphold some core values which is clearly related to culture.
my point is that culturally they identify as American but they still carry their place of origin in their identity. What you seem to be saying is because of the lack of specifics and knowledge of the countries in west africa. You'd rather use your skin color designation as a cultural identifier but color doesn't have a culture...thats the point of it.
And since none of us know the specifics of west africa then our history
STARTS here (tho we clearly did not pop into existence in the new world.). Isn't that what a number of people have said and even YOU indicate?
The creation of race as a concept combined with the Atlantic slave trade
really kinda created a whole new group of people.
You can say that other than the colonists, Blacks are the oldest group to live in the country BUT Blacks are the only group that can't specifically trace back our lineage to the old countries so
Blacks are truly the only REAL Americans. Because by the 3rd gen of enslaved people there was already the loss of any connection to those African countries and peoples we derived from. You couple that with a strong influence from other cultures and peoples you have a new type of group...its not surprising hip hop came from us because we ARE what hip hop is...this amalgam of all kinds of influences that coalesced into a new type of thing.
Is it really surprising that many of the staple American musics are all Black created... whether its Jazz, Blues or Rock and Roll or Hip Hop etc And those genres are TRUE American inventions...created by TRUE Americans within a little over 100 years or so.
If africa is not right because we've never been there or no nothing about those countries...then black isnt right because its not a place nor has language or culture....riiiight??
So the only logical conclusion is just plain old unhyphenated American. Now try to sell that to black people and see what the reaction will be??
Is Jewish a place? So why would you make that the base of your argument the location or nationality of origin? Its an exception to what you are calling the rule. By the way another group that passes on the culture regularly that i personally know and we all see. No one uses the term yellow to identify Asians except maybe derogatory, so it's not the same. Aren't European descendents called White in the US similar to African descendents being called Black?
Yes jewish is a place its called israel and its a jewish state created in the 1940s specifically created to root them to a place on the map. its in their charter..theyre fighting over it right now.
My yellow example was to illustrate what a color identifier used as culture looks like when its outside of the black/white dynamic.. and it looks sad. You feel sorry for that "yellow" person. And black in Spanish and Portuguese is negro and guess how that was used? It wasnt a compliment.
As far as european/white is concerned..when you CREATE a social construct and give yourself the higher socio-political value in it..its not the same issue. The enslaved Africans didnt CHOOSE to be black. European descendants KNOW where they come from and who they are and STILL choose to be white...ever ask one why??? Try it and see what answer you get.
