What is the Black Position on Illegal Immigration ???

[nittie]

I don't see how this subject can be debated on and endemic level. It only makes sense if you look at it from a Global or New World Order point of view. You have to envision a world with 2 classes rich and poor, no national boundaries but economic ones instead, in that world there is no such thing as illegal immigration. On the other hand this only works if the world shares this goal and are willing to let bygones be bygones and give up their national identity, America is finding out the hard way that the rest of the world don't see things as we do.

 

[Blkvoz]

You make a great point, we have so much border and reasonably securing the borders sounds daunting. Does that mean, however, that because of the enormity of the task, it should not be done? In other words, should there be no attempt to control the borders? If no, I understand your point, On the other hand, if you believe there should be control of the borders, to what extent? - and, more importantly, should there be any criteria for entering this country?

I see you want me to take a position, cool. The borders have to be controlled and we must make every effort to make our borders as secure as possible, regardless of the enormity of the task. To what extent? We must do everything that is legally, reasonably, and technically possible, in an effort to accomplish what your questions suggests.

Does that mean that we should provide employment for the world? Maybe I read the unemployment figures wrong, but it doesn't appear to me that there exist a job for every willing American. Who has the priority of any available job, citizens of this country -- or anyone who can gain entry, whether legal or not?

No, I do not suggest that we provide employment for the world. But tell me, are migratory workers illegal or otherwise working in this country any different than Outsourcing?

I agree with you that business has no interest in stopping <u>anything</u> that adds to its bottom line. Likewise, the government, better still, our representatives that make-up the government, appear to be embroiled in political gamesmanship over the outcome of elections.

Your concerns are expected, and of course justified. To put it bluntly, I am concerned about my next door neighbor, but I work to feed and provide for MY Family first. If after that I can help my next door neighbor I will, but my priorities start with me and mine.

None of those reasons, however, have anything to do with whats in the best interest of this country and whats in the best interest for my family. Simply because both are acting in their parochial self interest doesn't change whats in the nation's best interest. I'm concerned about the latter.

As far as the nation goes, the political and economic leaders which are one and the same, will do without being asked whatever is best for the nation, at least as their stated agenda.

If your surtax/surcharage and penalty idea was put into place and enforced, I probably wouldn't have much of a problem with it. It doesn't appear to grant wholesale citizenship, it might have some impact on border-flood, and, if I understand it correctly, it doesn't ignore the notion that there should be control over the border. On the other hand, if it doesn't mean control over the border and it means granting citizenship to anyone who is able to find a whole in a fence, I disagree. In my humble opinion, extending rights, liberties, privileges and immunities must have some greater underpinning than mere presence. Moreover, thats what the current law is and if we are going to change that, we need to amend the Constitution -- which requires a conscious decision to do so -- not the quasi-common law approach some seem to advocate.

I don’t think you would have a problem with the surtax/surcharge approach. No it does not grant citizenship as a right, but it could very well be considered when granting citizenship to any immigrant. My suggestion would serve to be a more effective method of control than now exists. Forget about minimum wages for immigrants we don’t impose that stipulation for outsourcing. Count all of the workers in a given area business etc. Require that all workers be documented. Ensure that all appropriate taxes are collected, and each payee is given the proper credit for same.

However I would insist that American workers have the first shot at those jobs with the same production requirements expected of the Mexican workers. With any American citizen paid at least minimum wages. The Government farm subsidies could make up the difference, instead of paying billions to farmers like DelMonte inc.

The penalty is imposed, when the employer does not adhere to the above stipulations. We talk about illegal workers, but they are employed every day. You and I are taxed to distraction. There is a penalty imposed on us for insufficient withholding, on top of the additional penalties if you don’t pay by April 15. We are focusing on a non issue, that is only my opinion. We cry Havoc about undocumented workers, while the top 1% of the wage earners in this country pay a smaller percentage of their money than those at or near the bottom of the economic ladder.

We have companys doing business in this country that pay no taxes at all.
That is an issue.
Some dude working in a field, picking whatever or landscaping the grounds of some fat cat. That is NOT an issue.
Pension plans being raided by greedy men already rich, and having someone that has worked for as long as 40 years to now be forced to live off Social Security instead of the retirement he paid for.
That is an issue.
I am not trying to get on my soap box, but does anyone really believe some starving dude making 3 or 4 dollars an hour is a real threat to this country?

Excuse me, but a lot of people appear to be overlooking a lot of things. Illegal aliens have rights and <u>responsibilities</u> in their native countries. They don't have those rights and responsibilities here and those rights and responsibilities are <u>never</u> to be compared with the Civil Rights struggle. Not that this applies to you, but I keep getting the feeling that many who argue as you do seem to take the position that any poke in whitey's eyes is alright with them. And, before someone cries whitey lover, let me say that I haven't forgotten a damn thang. But I'm not willing to align my rights, etc., with someone just to poke whitey in the eye while at the same time (knowingly or unknowingly) dilute my own position in the process. Dilution, however, in my opinion is exactly whats in the offing. I have to join with those posters who, like me, don't see the "identity of interest" of Black and Mexican voters. I love my fellow man alright, but this is politics


All the more reason to consider the options, isn't it?

Bottom line, no person residing in this country legal or not has the same rights as a citizen of this county.

I agree with you, we shouldn't be hateful towards Mexicans and Mexicans shouldn't be hateful towards us. I think you might call that the commutative property of race or ethinic relations. But, as I said above, this ain't about love, its politics. Herbert Lasswell defines politics as: who gets what, when and how. In that regard, I'm not willing to cede our political strength to accomodate illegal immigrants, who haven't demonstrated that they have "Our" political interest at heart.

QueEx

No one should be hateful to another person. The debate about Mexicans and Blacks is a non-issue designed to not so much keep us apart, but it’s design is intended for the power elite to maintain their control over the masses.


Sorry it took so long to reply, I look forward to your response.

 

[QueEx]

Your response was timely Bruh, and thanks for your comments.

I don't think we are that far apart. As I see it, outsourcing is probably both a product of corporate greed and this thing that we still don't know for sure where it will lead: Globalism. Illegal immigration is probably a bit of outsourcing-in-reverse, that is, instead of shipping out work to cheaper labor markets, companies allow and encourage illegal immigration to do what really can't be sent out (can't send out the lawn work and fruit picking). Moreover, our government, being financially supported by those same greedy interest, stands in the way of reasonable solutions to outsourcing: perhaps, a tax on private sector company's profits earned through outsourcing. As far as public-sector outsourcing (state, local and federal governments), it just shouldn't happen unless the affected citizens vote to allow a thing to be outsourced (vote on each outsourced thing -- that would make a lot of elected officials think twice before even thinking about outsourcing "public money").

But, just as the workers in India don't become citizens, merely because they are working for U.S. companies, neither should those who "In-source" to manicure lawns and do other tasks that Americans supposedly don't want to do. They should be held to the same standards as any other person does who wants to "Legally" migrate.

I guess my only real point of difference with you lies with your closing statements: The debate about Mexicans and Blacks is a non-issue designed to not so much keep us apart, but it’s design is intended for the power elite to maintain their control over the masses.

You could be right, but I don't see it as a "Grand Design" by the power elites to maintain control over the masses. I think its a simple matter of greed and neglect. Greed on the part of the greedy to make more by paying less and neglect on the part of Latin American governments, mainly and especially Mexico, to spur economic development for their own masses. WE (Blacks) are caught in the proverbial middle: protection of our interest on the one hand, and appearing to be anti-compassionate for others on the other hand.

My point all along, though it may not have been well articulated, is that WE have interests that must be protected. Our so-called leaders are being myopic and derelect in doing so. There is no question in my mind that if massive citizenship is granted to illegal immigrants OUR political power (whatever it is) will be adversely affected -- and for what? - to show our compassion? Gimme a damn break. LOL

We've worked too damn hard with miles to still go. I can't see leniency in this case, especially where it hasn't been shown where those that want a massive grant of citizenship share my pain. I have heard, loud and clear, Vicente Fox; and I heard loud and damn clear those demonstratiing in the streets draped in Mexican and other flags. I have also heard Senor Brown Pride -- who says all of this belongs to his people any damn way. NONE OF THOSE, my brother, seem to have me and mine in mind.

QueEx

 

[QueEx]

... The debate about Mexicans and Blacks is a non-issue designed to not so much keep us apart, but it’s design is intended for the power elite to maintain their control over the masses.

One last comment about your last statement above -- and I chose to make this separate from my last comment -- as its not really aimed at you, but to US in general.

<font size="4">WE have interest that WE must protect. No one will look out for OURS, if we don't. We must have the political sophistication to understand and articulate that just because protecting ours appears to support "whiteys" interest or is similar to arguments that whitey might make -- doesn't mean that we shouldn't protect those interests and use those arguments. More of us must understand that this mofo belongs to US as much as it belongs to any other mofo. Moreover, just because someone has "Similar skin color" means no more than that: similar skin color. Unless their interests jive with our interest or are politically useful to our cause: political sympathy - maybe, but political adoption - NO.

QueEx</font size>

 

[Blkvoz]

I don't think we are that far apart. As I see it, outsourcing is probably both a product of corporate greed and this thing that we still don't know for sure where it will lead: Globalism. Illegal immigration is probably a bit of outsourcing-in-reverse, that is, instead of shipping out work to cheaper labor markets, companies allow and encourage illegal immigration to do what really can't be sent out (can't send out the lawn work and fruit picking). Moreover, our government, being financially supported by those same greedy interest, stands in the way of reasonable solutions to outsourcing: perhaps, a tax on private sector company's profits earned through outsourcing. As far as public-sector outsourcing (state, local and federal governments), it just shouldn't happen unless the affected citizens vote to allow a thing to be outsourced (vote on each outsourced thing -- that would make a lot of elected officials think twice before even thinking about outsourcing "public money").

I don’t think that we are apart at all, we are almost in lock step. I totally agree that nothing should be outsourced without the consent of the people. But that won’t happen because most people know more about soap operas, and what celebrity is doing what with whom, than how their elected officials vote. Labor in this country has sold out the American worker. There was a documentary on organized crime. Giuliani or however you spell his name, bragged about how he ran the mafia off of the docks and out of the Fulton fish market. The mafia no doubt made lots of money on the docks. I in no way support crime, organized or otherwise, but there is one thing for sure, no one could mess with the dock workers. If they paid their dues and kickbacks, they worked and made a good wage. The same thing with the teamsters. The working man had a champion.

A. Phillip Randolph, John L Lewis or Jimmy Hoffa would not have stood by and let Regan dismiss a union. That was the beginning of the demise of the American Labor movement.

What would happen to the products of outsourcing, if the pilots refused to guide the ships into port, if the dock workers refused to unload the ships, if the truck drivers refused to deliver those goods?

The yellow ribbons intended to demonstrate support our armed forces in Iraq, are now made in China, talk about insult.

I guess my only real point of difference with you lies with your closing statements: The debate about Mexicans and Blacks is a non-issue designed to not so much keep us apart, but it’s design is intended for the power elite to maintain their control over the masses.

You could be right, but I don't see it as a "Grand Design" by the power elites to maintain control over the masses. I think its a simple matter of greed and neglect. Greed on the part of the greedy to make more by paying less and neglect on the part of Latin American governments, mainly and especially Mexico, to spur economic development for their own masses. WE (Blacks) are caught in the proverbial middle: protection of our interest on the one hand, and appearing to be anti-compassionate for others on the other hand.

Greed is less a symptom of avarice and more of an obsession with power. Obviously the two go hand in hand. But the rich can only remain in power with the consent of the poor. The poor can change anything at the polls. That won’t happen in our life time. Por ejemplo, Bush and the Religious right, have you ever heard or seen more division? Talk about polarization, not just the Blacks against the whites, but even white against white. Now they add the Brown man into the mix.

As long as we Black men fight battles that mean nothing, win or lose, we remain in the niche that has been designed for us.

My point all along, though it may not have been well articulated, is that WE have interests that must be protected. Our so-called leaders are being myopic and derelect in doing so. There is no question in my mind that if massive citizenship is granted to illegal immigrants OUR political power (whatever it is) will be adversely affected -- and for what? - to show our compassion? Gimme a damn break. LOL

Your point is well taken and could not have been articulated with greater clarity. Our interests must be protected. I happen to believe we gain strength by networking with those whose position mirrors our own. I am not saying grant everyone citizenship, to achieve this end, but fighting the system alone, is indeed a daunting task, a task in my opinion is doomed to failure, or at best limited success.

In my opinion, the Black man will never really elevate himself socially, politically and economically speaking, until he becomes an economic power.

We've worked too damn hard with miles to still go. I can't see leniency in this case, especially where it hasn't been shown where those that want a massive grant of citizenship share my pain. I have heard, loud and clear, Vicente Fox; and I heard loud and damn clear those demonstratiing in the streets draped in Mexican and other flags. I have also heard Senor Brown Pride -- who says all of this belongs to his people any damn way. NONE OF THOSE, my brother, seem to have me and mine in mind.

TRUE DAT

 

[Blkvoz]

Fox is not the problem. For whatever reason, all he is doing is highlighting the social and economic system in this country, to further his own agenda.

The problem is our lawmakers, on all levels, that do little that is not in their own best interest, or the best interest of the many lobbyists that buy their votes.

The problem is we continue to send those same leaders back again and again, which produce the same results, and we seem to act as if we expect a different outcome.

A case in point, the recent acquisition of our ports by a foreign power. Congress stopped that shit in it’s tracks, in opposition to Bush’s support.

Just imagine if we had a Congress that was as concerned about Health care, Education, Affirmative Action, the Environment, Energy prices, minimum wages, Social Security, ( fell free to add anything you feel I have overlooked.) Issues that would help everyone Black’s included that’s an important issue, not something some fool said that cannot possibly have any impact on our status.

Fox and anything he says can neither help or hurt the Black experience in this country your local, state, and federal lawmakers can.

For the record I don't like what he said, however as I as I stated previously, I am more offended by a social condition, that fosters such thought.

If he made the same statement, and said white men no one would have reacted to such a foolish statement. If it is foolish for one, it is equally as inane for another.

One can expend energy denouncing the foolish statement, or one can make better use of his time and energy on issues infinitely more relevant to the Black experience in this country.

 

[GhostofMarcus]

No one should be hateful to another person. The debate about Mexicans and Blacks is a non-issue designed to not so much keep us apart, but it’s design is intended for the power elite to maintain their control over the masses.


Sorry it took so long to reply, I look forward to your response.

True, you should hear some blacks these days. I guess since Lou Dobbs couldn't do shit shit to the corporations for senting jobs overseas, he starting talking shit and fucking with the illegal Mexicans. I really don't care if they legal or illegal has nothing to do with me. As for mexicans not siding with blacks or not liking blacks so what. You standup for your own rights, don't need anyone else to do it if you want it done.

 

[GhostofMarcus]

One last comment about your last statement above -- and I chose to make this separate from my last comment -- as its not really aimed at you, but to US in general.

<font size="4">WE have interest that WE must protect. No one will look out for OURS, if we don't. We must have the political sophistication to understand and articulate that just because protecting ours appears to support "whiteys" interest or is similar to arguments that whitey might make -- doesn't mean that we shouldn't protect those interests and use those arguments. More of us must understand that this mofo belongs to US as much as it belongs to any other mofo. Moreover, just because someone has "Similar skin color" means no more than that: similar skin color. Unless their interests jive with our interest or are politically useful to our cause: political sympathy - maybe, but political adoption - NO.

QueEx</font size>

What interest are you protecting may I ask? Also are you saying that illegal mexians are threating that interest?

 

[VegasGuy]

What interest are you protecting may I ask? Also are you saying that illegal mexians are threating that interest?

QueEx can answer for himself but from where I sit, there isn't this abundance of employment opportunities for that income bracket many unskilled and low wage jobs as you seem to think it is. When jobs outside those jobs of extracting fruit and vegetables from farms begin to be impacted by bringing in people who will do that same job for less, those AMERICANS will be affected.

How could they not be?

We are talking about 20 to 30 MILLION plus people and I think to wait until the democrat party or Jesse to tell you that your shit is about to be "outsourced" unless you protest with them is too damn late.

It's common sense and as plain as the sun in the sky that we are about to be run over hard if politicians whose sole purpose is to make money for themselves, allow illegals to replace our current immigration laws with some new shit for a few more fucked up votes.

You don't think that an influx of people doing jobs typically done by American blacks will be affected?

Even Hillary is saying she wants a fence up but she wants it after this new policy is in place. We know from expierence what the fuck she and her party is doing. She is talking about TWO seperate and distinct bills. One that would be enacted an the other at some date in the future. A date that will never come. I'm not stupid to republican tricks or democrat ones. But that's another post.

You must also think that when tech jobs leave the country for Pakistan, and textile jobs leave for China, Indonesia and other countries, there isn't any impact to the people living here. You got all this shit twisted bruh.
What are the people in Ohio been saying every election year about other people doing their jobs? Sure as hell ain't what you're saying. No difference at all if the jobs are being replaced here by illigal immigrants or by people in another country, standards of living for those directly afftected will change.

-VG

 

[Dolemite]

What interest are you protecting may I ask? Also are you saying that illegal mexians are threating that interest?

ask black skilled labor evacuees from New Orleans who sit jobless in FEMA camps or in other states whether illegal aliens who now are working thousands of well paid jobs in New Orleans if they are effected


I can't believe how many of yall think this is about some rednecks being pissed off or something. I'm as multicultural and generous as the next person, moreso even, but it is totally unreasonable to have our nation be virtually without borders but only when it comes to hispanic fence jumpers.
There are about 30 million black people in America. Think about that. Think about the influence we have, that we want etc. Think about adding 11 million to a population that is in COMPETITION with our population. Besides the fact that our people recieve no free pass for violating the law this is a serious threat to the limited strength our people have in this nation. I'm very surprised at the pro-black claiming individuals who have no care or knowledge regarding this.

 

[GhostofMarcus]

ask black skilled labor evacuees from New Orleans who sit jobless in FEMA camps or in other states whether illegal aliens who now are working thousands of well paid jobs in New Orleans if they are effected


I can't believe how many of yall think this is about some rednecks being pissed off or something. I'm as multicultural and generous as the next person, moreso even, but it is totally unreasonable to have our nation be virtually without borders but only when it comes to hispanic fence jumpers.
There are about 30 million black people in America. Think about that. Think about the influence we have, that we want etc. Think about adding 11 million to a population that is in COMPETITION with our population. Besides the fact that our people recieve no free pass for violating the law this is a serious threat to the limited strength our people have in this nation. I'm very surprised at the pro-black claiming individuals who have no care or knowledge regarding this.

haven't illegal mexians always been here, why the outcry all a sudden. Mexians legal or illegal is not going to get no more then anyone else. Life has all ways been about competition, better step your game up(mexian competition should be your last worry). What free pass do they get. If they get caught they get send back, just like if your ass is speeding and get caught you get a ticket. People got family to feed just like you. I have no care because I see the bullshit for what it is. First it started as terrorist coming across now it's they taking our jobs.
well I guess I am pro black for the most part but my people are a trip too.

 

[Dolemite]

haven't illegal mexians always been here, why the outcry all a sudden. Mexians legal or illegal is not going to get no more then anyone else. Life has all ways been about competition, better step your game up(mexian competition should be your last worry). What free pass do they get. If they get caught they get send back, just like if your ass is speeding and get caught you get a ticket. People got family to feed just like you. I have no care because I see the bullshit for what it is. First it started as terrorist coming across now it's they taking our jobs.
well I guess I am pro black for the most part but my people are a trip too.

Bullshit. 11 million mexican and central american economic refugees havent always been here
I don't worry about competing with anyone but Im not stupid enough to believe black people in America are as educated or skilled as I am because they aren't. What free pass? Read the whole thread bruh or one of the other threads if you can't see a difference in illegal immigration enforcement in regard to hispanics versus blacks and others.
Fuck all that. You have the nerve to have Marcus in your sig?
I have no problem with immigration, hispanics or enforcing or not enforcing our borders but when it is enforced differently for certain people based on skin color and when millions of non-citizens push for their rights when legally they have none other than to get a hearing before being deported is pure bullshit.
The world is about competition and any man who would freely let those not entitled to shit compete with their own when it isn't necessary or to the benefit of some of his own people is a fuckin tard or has no love for his own people.
Straight up. Education and cultural issues aren't going to be fixed soon enough to impact those poor and middle class african-americans who would be impacted by 11 million new legal competing workers. But maybe you aren't african american so why should you give a fuck.
panafricanist my muthafuckin ass

I noticed you didnt answer my remark about NO either.

What part of Marcus' PanAfricanist game involved favoring the weakening of diasporatic african political and economic power to benefit hispanics?
bullshit

 

[QueEx]

haven't illegal mexians always been here, why the outcry all a sudden.

What (Black) interest are you protecting may I ask?

(1) Fukk you been ???

(2) Why even pretend to have a clue ???

QueEx

 

[Dolemite]

(1) Fukk you been ???

(2) Why even pretend to have a clue ???

QueEx

as a brother from NO maybe you can break down the impact of removing the black skilled labor from NO during refugee removal and the wage law rules the government implemented and the sudden surge of illegal mexican labor in the area. I saw a union rep brother who was a mason(stone layer not lodge) ripping Ray Nagin in a town hall meeting and I also saw news reports about how illegal aliens who have been shipped in to NO plan on staying in New Orleans permanently.

 

[GhostofMarcus]

Bullshit. 11 million mexican and central american economic refugees havent always been here
I don't worry about competing with anyone but Im not stupid enough to believe black people in America are as educated or skilled as I am because they aren't. What free pass? Read the whole thread bruh or one of the other threads if you can't see a difference in illegal immigration enforcement in regard to hispanics versus blacks and others.
Fuck all that. You have the nerve to have Marcus in your sig?
I have no problem with immigration, hispanics or enforcing or not enforcing our borders but when it is enforced differently for certain people based on skin color and when millions of non-citizens push for their rights when legally they have none other than to get a hearing before being deported is pure bullshit.
The world is about competition and any man who would freely let those not entitled to shit compete with their own when it isn't necessary or to the benefit of some of his own people is a fuckin tard or has no love for his own people.
Straight up. Education and cultural issues aren't going to be fixed soon enough to impact those poor and middle class african-americans who would be impacted by 11 million new legal competing workers. But maybe you aren't african american so why should you give a fuck.
panafricanist my muthafuckin ass

I noticed you didnt answer my remark about NO either.

What part of Marcus' PanAfricanist game involved favoring the weakening of diasporatic african political and economic power to benefit hispanics?
bullshit

I am not saying 11 million showed up one time but hell alot of them have been here a long as time. What you going to do with 11 million people, can't help mexico next door. Why should I hate on them, I live in a state were there are mad mexicans. I don't see mexicans taking anyone jobs that want to work. Also you are saying that mexicans are only completing with black people only.
How is not giving a fuck about shit white people bring up to get you dumb asses in a uproar weakening of black people political power. Matter
of fact what political power are you talking about.
I like said you standup for your own rights, but don't hate on someone else.
Mexicans don't hurt or help blacks and I never looked to them or anyone else to standup for my rights. Yeah, I do have the nerve to have Marcus Garvey as my sig.

If I did not post a remark you left for a no thread more then likely I didn't give a fuck or didn't go back to the thread. I usually don't post remarks because I am not going keep going back and forth.

 

[QueEx]

I don't know why I should break it down though, Bruh. This guy asks me what interest do we have to protect? Is he serious? I gotta figure a guy comes in here with a Garvey avator should have some idea of what interest we have to protect. Hell, anybody who has watched 2 seconds of coverage of Katrina should know about the scavengers moving in before the floodwater had even subsided.

... what damn interest we have to protect ... my damn head

QueEx

 

[GhostofMarcus]

(1) Fukk you been ???

(2) Why even pretend to have a clue ???

QueEx

you always posting like you know it all. More mexicans in North Carolina then
NO I bet.

 

[GhostofMarcus]

I don't know why I should break it down though, Bruh. This guy asks me what interest do we have to protect? Is he serious? I gotta figure a guy comes in here with a Garvey avator should have some idea of what interest we have to protect. Hell, anybody who has watched 2 seconds of coverage of Katrina should know about the scavengers moving in before the floodwater had even subsided.

... what damn interest we have to protect ... my damn head

QueEx

Oh ok the mexicans had black people moved out of NO so they could take thier jobs. Wasn't it the system that fucked NO over. Bush and his boys, Blacks should have demanded that they get jobs first but they didn't stand together.


You always trying sound so smart and don't know the half yourself.
Why haven't you been protecting that interest that you talk about up to now.

Like I said I live in North Carolina that has more mexicans or whatever then hell. I don't see mexicans completing with blacks maybe the blacks are more educated in my state(we do have alot of colleges and tech schools). If you want to work, you will work.
Step your game up.
Stop bullshitting in school or whatever because you are not entitled to shit.
Thats what I tell these young bloods around may way.

 

[Dolemite]

I am not saying 11 million showed up one time but hell alot of them have been here a long as time. What you going to do with 11 million people, can't help mexico next door. Why should I hate on them, I live in a state were there are mad mexicans. I don't see mexicans taking anyone jobs that want to work. Also you are saying that mexicans are only completing with black people only.
How is not giving a fuck about shit white people bring up to get you dumb asses in a uproar weakening of black people political power. Matter
of fact what political power are you talking about.
I like said you standup for your own rights, but don't hate on someone else.
Mexicans don't hurt or help blacks and I never looked to them or anyone else to standup for my rights. Yeah, I do have the nerve to have Marcus Garvey as my sig.

If I did not post a remark you left for a no thread more then likely I didn't give a fuck or didn't go back to the thread. I usually don't post remarks because I am not going keep going back and forth.

You are very ignorant. North Carolina is not the USA. Damn bruh if you don't know, dont care and refuse to even look at the evidence that shows shit is contrary to how you are saying shit is why even fuckin post?

I don't know why I should break it down though, Bruh. This guy asks me what interest do we have to protect? Is he serious? I gotta figure a guy comes in here with a Garvey avator should have some idea of what interest we have to protect. Hell, anybody who has watched 2 seconds of coverage of Katrina should know about the scavengers moving in before the floodwater had even subsided.

... what damn interest we have to protect ... my damn head

QueEx

This shit is pathetic. I can't see how a supposedly problack person wouldn't be upset that black economic refugees aren't being offered the same penalty free opportunity to illegally immigrate. I'm really like wtf? in these threads. I'm really shocked that some of these people are so ignorant or on alternate agendas. Do muthafuckas actually think that the black kid who was getting a shitty education with 30 kids in a class is getting a better deal with 38 and the teacher tryin to handle 24 barely literate spanish speakers? and that's just one aspect.
I guess you forgot the Black Star Line had 60% of its cabins dedicated to latinos

 

[Dolemite]

Stop bullshitting in school or whatever because you are not entitled to shit.
Thats what I tell these young bloods around may way.

Bullshit. Millions of citizens pay taxes and are entitled to alot of shit including a decent education.

 

[VegasGuy]

Even deeper into the abyss.

Look Ghost, wasn't it only recently the congress began to discuss an alternative to our emigration laws? And has ANYONE in your state government bellyached about how much illegal emigrants is costing state services and shit? What are you going to tell those who expect to be able to find a job that did not have the benefit of tech school funding? Especially in light of the fact that what money might otherwise be available is being siphoned out of the system to pay for jail space and overtime for cops and shit. Not to mention what the hospitals are having to pay they will not be reimbursed for to treat them.

Also factor in how the law will treat those same doctors if when they treat those who are supposed to be working and getting the fuck out, if something goes wrong with the treatment. They can still be sued. That translates into higher costs for those who live here and have a tough time paying as it is. And you still don't think it has a direct correlation to quality of life? You seriously need to drop that moniker. It's embarrassing.

-VG

 

[Greed]

well, it should be obvious by now why the naacp and congressional black caucus has the balls to support illegal immigration.

for every person that wants the rule of law to be applied fairly and equally to every person(legal and illegal), there is a marcus and temujin who essentially says "who cares".

the cbc has no fear of not being reelected, and i might have to admit that once again i have the minority opinion within the black community.

i use to make the argument that black people are the most sensitive to laws being selectively enforce. no one wanted people to be treated equally more than black people, but i guess i'm outnumbered.

fucking over the white man isnt worth our soul. or so i thought.

 

[Duece]

as a brother from NO maybe you can break down the impact of removing the black skilled labor from NO during refugee removal and the wage law rules the government implemented and the sudden surge of illegal mexican labor in the area. I saw a union rep brother who was a mason(stone layer not lodge) ripping Ray Nagin in a town hall meeting and I also saw news reports about how illegal aliens who have been shipped in to NO plan on staying in New Orleans permanently.

lord help us!

 

[GhostofMarcus]

Even deeper into the abyss.

Look Ghost, wasn't it only recently the congress began to discuss an alternative to our emigration laws? And has ANYONE in your state government bellyached about how much illegal emigrants is costing state services and shit? What are you going to tell those who expect to be able to find a job that did not have the benefit of tech school funding? Especially in light of the fact that what money might otherwise be available is being siphoned out of the system to pay for jail space and overtime for cops and shit. Not to mention what the hospitals are having to pay they will not be reimbursed for to treat them.

Also factor in how the law will treat those same doctors if when they treat those who are supposed to be working and getting the fuck out, if something goes wrong with the treatment. They can still be sued. That translates into higher costs for those who live here and have a tough time paying as it is. And you still don't think it has a direct correlation to quality of life? You seriously need to drop that moniker. It's embarrassing.

-VG

Just because I take a different view then you having marcus is embarrassing.
How do you know were marcus would have stood on this issue and second I am my own man.
you are funny. You guys come up with the same bullshit all the time.
If you clowns think putting mexicans out going to lower your taxes just wait for it. My state is ran by repubs like you, they going to cry about anybody non-white as fucking up the system. Doctors can be sued by anybody and you been listening to bush too, next you going say doctors should have a limit on sueing them. The system been fuck up.

 

[GhostofMarcus]

Bullshit. Millions of citizens pay taxes and are entitled to alot of shit including a decent education.

I see people getting an education everyday. Mexicans don't anything with you getting a decent education. Who going to get the blame next, if we put all the mexicans out like you want. What happpens when the systems is still fuck up. who to blame then?

 

[GhostofMarcus]

You are very ignorant. North Carolina is not the USA. Damn bruh if you don't know, dont care and refuse to even look at the evidence that shows shit is contrary to how you are saying shit is why even fuckin post?






This shit is pathetic. I can't see how a supposedly problack person wouldn't be upset that black economic refugees aren't being offered the same penalty free opportunity to illegally immigrate. I'm really like wtf? in these threads. I'm really shocked that some of these people are so ignorant or on alternate agendas. Do muthafuckas actually think that the black kid who was getting a shitty education with 30 kids in a class is getting a better deal with 38 and the teacher tryin to handle 24 barely literate spanish speakers? and that's just one aspect.
I guess you forgot the Black Star Line had 60% of its cabins dedicated to latinos

Dam, I am ignorant because I talked about my state but you talked about NO a couple posts back. Well I guess NO is the whole USA. I read others that has gotten in your shit as a bullshitter anyway.
What you going to do if the mexicans are gone. Shit going to be real lovely and we going have free education, two kids per three teachers. Doctors don't have to worry about being sued,better hospitals. I guess mexicans the reason gas so high. Got to blame someone as long as it's not the ones in office.

 

[Temujin]

To Temujin,

But anyway, answer this question (don't just reply, but answer) by using your newfound libertarianism. How could expanding the supply not drive down prices ? In this case, the the supply is labor, and having a supply that is deficient, like illegal aliens with thier work status being a handicap for them, being even more of an impediment. And if blacks are part of that labor pool, how will they not be affected ?

First off when you have a price barrier on a commodity ie. minimum wage and labor increasing the supply can only lower the price to that barrier. Unless you disqualify some of your labor pool from the restriction adding labor cannot lower prices. So when the government decides to allow illegal immigration but not allow citizenship this is what is loophole that allows these big companies to avoid paying minimum wage. Do you understand that it is the system that allows immigration but does not grant citizenship is what hurts. If you can understand this then you can understand how increasing supply in a fixed minimum price situation does not decrease price. I hope you can get that.

Now on to the second part of the question. And maybe you never understood this but yes the current immigration laws hurt black workers. The immigrants do not hurt black workers their undocumented status hurts black workers. Ya'll got to understand that our government is fucking us and ya'll are blaming in on the immigrants.

Do you understand that this is a shell game. The corporations are reaping the benefits from illegal labor. They are avoiding paying minimum wage for profit. They are avoiding paying employment taxes into the public coffers. These are the people hurting black workers not the immigrants. Corporate greed is the reason the immigration laws have stayed the way they are not poor people.

I tried to expand your view of the economics of labor but you still don't get it. People do not migrate and sap resources without spending money. People spend money to live. So yes you have more competition for menial labor by increasing the labor pool. But you also have increased revenues in housing, food etc. The movement of money is how economies boom. The more money that is moved the greater the power. Can ya'll imagine the tax revenue increase if we have 11 million more tax payers. We are definetly missing the big picture. 11 million more poor citizens gives the interests of poor citizens more power.

 

[Temujin]

you are avoiding my questions


so let these 11 million stay- and what about the ones who are crossing now? and the millions more tomorrow? why not make them legal too? your very same arguments still apply right?




?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

we already read where you are benefiting from it personally bruh
11 million spent a day and 100million burned up by them exploiting resources they have never contributed toward
Brilliant

you still never said where it ends. Let me guess, with you having 100 more offices and a couple hundred million immigrant dollars in your bank account

u sound like a carpet bagger

so far you argue for totally open immigration in a world of finite space and resources

It ends when we have an immigration system in place that makes sense. Do you honestly think these people want to be here illegally. Did you not see them march on washington to pay taxes. They want to be citizens and pay taxes and contribute to American society. It is the corporations who do not want to pay minimum wage, the polititians who don't want more poor voters, and the poor people blinded by the media into thinking immigrants are taking their jobs.

The barriers to citizenship are purposeful. They are economic. It costs thousands of dollars to gain U.S. citizenship. When you have a system like that obviously poor people cannot afford to become citizens.

And yes I am in favor of open immigration because like I said before people migrate for economic reasons. If there was not a demand for immigrants their would be no supply. Obviously the demand is high.

 

[QueEx]

It is the corporations who do not want to pay minimum wage, the polititians who don't want more poor voters, and the poor people <u>blinded</u> by the media into thinking immigrants are taking their jobs.

And your arguments represent "Enlightment" ??? Gimme a damn break!

QueEx

 

[Makkonnen]

I see people getting an education everyday. Mexicans don't anything with you getting a decent education. Who going to get the blame next, if we put all the mexicans out like you want. What happpens when the systems is still fuck up. who to blame then?

That's why you're fuckin ignorant. Go read something about places besides NC that have to deal with massive rates of non-english speaking illegal immigrant children and children of illegal immigrants. Try a state like Texas or California brainiac. Those states have a few more people than NC. You're pathetic. Why the fuck do you continue to argue regarding your personal feelings and experiences when you obviously don't know shit about the entirety of AMERICA. Either you're ignorant or a pathetic liar. In any case your pushing a position that's clearly bullshit.
You're a fuckin dumbass. The difference between getting a good education and a shitty one is resources. If an already limited supply of resources is further depleted then what happens? Public education is about federal dollars and local property taxes. Legal immigrants and citizens contribute while illegals don't.
Did I say all our problems are based on mexicans? No so stop trying to pretend that I did. Adding more problems to a fucked up situation is not gonna make fixing it any easier.

 

[QueEx]

Don't call him a dumbass or fuckin ignorant Bruh. Its against the rules, despite its truth.

QueEx

 

[Makkonnen]

Dam, I am ignorant because I talked about my state but you talked about NO a couple posts back. Well I guess NO is the whole USA. I read others that has gotten in your shit as a bullshitter anyway.
What you going to do if the mexicans are gone. Shit going to be real lovely and we going have free education, two kids per three teachers. Doctors don't have to worry about being sued,better hospitals. I guess mexicans the reason gas so high. Got to blame someone as long as it's not the ones in office.

No you are ignorant because you act like your state with its small amount of illegal immigrants is par for the course. I also talked about California and Texas, states that have MILLIONS of illegal aliens. Does NC have millions of illegal aliens? hell no
If you think I'm bullshitting prove it dumbass. Try reading. Or better yet ask someone in an effected state like Cali or Texas. You're stupid as fuck.
I noticed you ain't say shit about panafricanism or laws being applied differently for blacks than it is for hispanics. You're a fuckin sellout. Marcus would slap the shit outta you for being stupid.

I'm all for people improving their lives but not when Haitians get shit on and Mexicans get a pass and not when legalizing millions of illegal hispanics will further marginalize my people's position in this nation. If you are the problack person you pretend to be I dont see how you can argue against that right there. wtf?

Make it legal for ALL economic refugees or make it illegal for all. Why the fuck are Mexicans better than Africans who want a better life ? Or Haitians?

 

[Makkonnen]

It ends when we have an immigration system in place that makes sense. Do you honestly think these people want to be here illegally. Did you not see them march on washington to pay taxes. They want to be citizens and pay taxes and contribute to American society. It is the corporations who do not want to pay minimum wage, the polititians who don't want more poor voters, and the poor people blinded by the media into thinking immigrants are taking their jobs.

The barriers to citizenship are purposeful. They are economic. It costs thousands of dollars to gain U.S. citizenship. When you have a system like that obviously poor people cannot afford to become citizens.

And yes I am in favor of open immigration because like I said before people migrate for economic reasons. If there was not a demand for immigrants their would be no supply. Obviously the demand is high.

Man my point aint immigration- its illegal immigration and why those who can jump a fence are being given preference over others and why millions of criminals are being offered a pass.

You are telling me that millions of illegal aliens are better than the hundreds of thousands of africans waiting on a work visa??????????? Better than all the haitians who are pursued with far more vigor than mexicans are?

And like I said before where does it end? and when will any laws be enforced? we have laws now and there are 3 million people a year flooding accross the border illegally. How is that supposed to stop? All the laws proposed will force supposedly 2 million of the 11 million to go to their home countries and apply for visas- do you think those 2 million people will leave??????????? Now apply that same "How do you deport millions of people?" remark and you'll see that the only thing that will have changed is there will be 9 million new legal residents who were rewarded for being criminals and everyone on the waiting lists will still be there

Name a law that I can break as an american citizen and be openly rewarded. Am I not better than a man who is not even a member of my own nation? Or is your argument that we should have no nations?

 

[Makkonnen]

Don't call him a dumbass or fuckin ignorant Bruh. Its against the rules, despite its truth.

QueEx

my bad- yo ghost youre not a dumbass or fuckin ignorant

 

[Temujin]

And your arguments represent "Enlightment" ??? Gimme a damn break!

QueEx

Well it seems even people allegedly well educated can't see the forest from the trees. If you can't realize that the status of the migrant labor is what puts other similarly situated workers in a competitive disadvantage and that it is the american corporations who are the main beneficiaries of these imigration policies then you are amongst the blind. If you do realize this then your fight clearly should not be with the immigrants but with the immigration system that allows this situation to take place. Your focus would not be on decreasing the supply of immigrants in general but decreasing the supply of illegals. Because clearly it is their status and not their participation in the economy that is the problem.

But instead of attacking the problem straight on you succomb to the rhetoric and believe harsher immigration laws and heavier enforcement will solve the problem. Even a blind man can see we do not actively enforce the laws we have now. If that is the situation you would have to be blind to think increasing the punishement would improve enforcement or deter illegal immigration.

The only deterents to illegal immigration would be 1. Lack of jobs in America 2.Decrease impediments to legal citizenship.

My suggestion to change the immigration laws would include both. I would increase the penalties on U.S. companies that higher illegals and I would decrease the impediments to legal citizenship. Period. The only disagrement you have is that you would like to see less latino's in your neighboorhood because you view competition as a threat. Real economists and capitalist view competiton as a way to increase efficiency. Real business people look at population booms as new customers. The black corporate community and political community would be wise to do so also.