How exactly should the Democrats message and what strategy should they employ to regain position in upcoming elections and governing?

[Big Tex]

The things you guys are describing sounds more like moderate republican/conservatives than anything thats modern day liberal or progressive.

And if it werent for the issues of racism I think most blacks today would be republicans than anything else.

Be honest with yourself....how much of what trusk is doing do you actually disagree with in principle vs execution???

The fact that you think listening to voters is a conservative position is why Dems are losing.

I disagree with every single thing Trump and Musk are doing.

I alo understand that it doesn't matter what I think. It's what the voters think. The purpose of an elected representative is to represent the will of the voters - not to tell them what to think.

There is a difference between an activist and a representative.

My question for you is why do you think politicians don't have to listen to the desires of the people they want to vote for them?

 

[geechiedan]

The fact that you think listening to voters is a conservative position is why Dems are losing.

I disagree with every single thing Trump and Musk are doing.

I alo understand that it doesn't matter what I think. It's what the voters think. The purpose of an elected representative is to represent the will of the voters - not to tell them what to think.

There is a difference between an activist and a representative.

My question for you is why do you think politicians don't have to listen to the desires of the people they want to vote for them?

the dems problem isn't that they're not listening to voters its a values issue. The will of the people is the reason why slavery and jim crow lasted as long as they did. Many of the people who fought in the civil war had low opinions about blacks. Hell Lincoln demonstrated it:

I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races—that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermingling with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which will ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together, there must be the position of superior. I am as much as any other man in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.

Abe Lincoln - October 15, 1858

Historians today have said that this speech was Lincolns way of trying to thread a needle between abolishment of slavery versus the general will and perception of the voters at that time.

Robert Kennedy in 1968 said:

Things are moving so fast in race relations. A Negro could be President in 40 years. There is no question about it. In the next 40 years, a Negro can achieve the same position that my brother [John F. Kennedy] has,” said RFK. “Prejudice exists and probably will continue to…but we have tried to make progress and we are making progress. We are not going to accept the status quo.”

he wasnt that far off in that prediction BUT consider James Baldwin's opinion of that...

“I remember, for example, when the ex-Attorney General, Mr. Robert Kennedy, said that it was conceivable that in forty years in America we might have a Negro president. And that sounded like a very emancipated statement, I suppose, to white people. They were not in Harlem when this statement was first heard. They did not hear (and possibly will never hear) the laughter and the bitterness and the scorn with which this statement was greeted.
From the point of view of the man in the Harlem barbershop, Bobby Kennedy only got here yesterday and now he's already on his way to the presidency. We've been here for four hundred years and now he tells us that maybe in forty years, if you're good, we may let you become president.”

― James Baldwin, I Am Not Your Negro

So when you talk about the "will of the people" I don't know if you want to use that as the best barometer for progress in American society.

when I said Be honest with yourself....how much of what trusk is doing do you actually disagree with in principle vs execution???

I wasnt throwing a job at you...I thought about it myself and honestly...there are SOME things I agree with trump IN PRINCIPLE. The idea that departments or systems not functioning as they should and therefore destroy them and start anew isn't a bad idea IN PRINCIPLE....its their EXECUTION that's all fucked up. HOW they're doing what they're doing is a HUGE problem...

this was my assessment of the things he's done in the first 2 months of his term

now there many things I disagree with but some things I do or are meh about (which considering his low bar may as well be agreement)

And I suspect many of us feel the same way to some degree.

so again I ask...how much of what trusk is doing do you actually disagree with in principle vs execution???

 

[geechiedan]

Subs

like to you chime in on this too..

 

[chitownsfinest]

Gavin Newson/Wes Moore

 

[geechiedan]

Gavin Newson/Wes Moore

Why?

 

[slewdem100]

I say become a real worker's party.

Have your message focus solely on people's pockets and their kid's future careers.

Bettter education across the board, better training, better careers, better ownership opportunities, better family building opportunities...

Get behind a message and stick to it.

The online progressive media would have to get on board and learn to build instead of destroy.

This is what they need to do....this is what Bernie was focusing on when they pulled the rug out from under him....its the one issue the majority will get behind...workers rights, jobs and increasing the real wage...shit, its kinda what Trump did (kinda sorta) even though he doesn't believe in the shit but he used it effectively to rally support (along with racist dog whistles)

I think at this point, everybody knows the rich are fucking them over...well, I hope so but I have been surprised by certain segments of this electorate before

Unfortunately championing this will lead to conflict with the real rulers of this country, the elite, and the dems aint going there as many of them are elite themselves...Biden mentioning the aims of the oligarchy as he was leaving is the literal definition of too little, too late and is indicative of Dems and their half way shit

Hate to say it but they may just have to wait until the Repubs really fuck shit up again (which seems right on schedule)

Obviously they need to leave that trans shit and other weird shit the hell alone...those other groups will have to do what Blacks have been doing for decades, go for the lessor of 2 evils and not expect too much in the way of direct support for things deemed politically divisive

 

[Big Tex]

the dems problem isn't that they're not listening to voters its a values issue. The will of the people is the reason why slavery and jim crow lasted as long as they did. Many of the people who fought in the civil war had low opinions about blacks. Hell Lincoln demonstrated it:

I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races—that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermingling with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which will ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together, there must be the position of superior. I am as much as any other man in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.

Abe Lincoln - October 15, 1858

Historians today have said that this speech was Lincolns way of trying to thread a needle between abolishment of slavery versus the general will and perception of the voters at that time.

Robert Kennedy in 1968 said:

Things are moving so fast in race relations. A Negro could be President in 40 years. There is no question about it. In the next 40 years, a Negro can achieve the same position that my brother [John F. Kennedy] has,” said RFK. “Prejudice exists and probably will continue to…but we have tried to make progress and we are making progress. We are not going to accept the status quo.”

he wasnt that far off in that prediction BUT consider James Baldwin's opinion of that...

“I remember, for example, when the ex-Attorney General, Mr. Robert Kennedy, said that it was conceivable that in forty years in America we might have a Negro president. And that sounded like a very emancipated statement, I suppose, to white people. They were not in Harlem when this statement was first heard. They did not hear (and possibly will never hear) the laughter and the bitterness and the scorn with which this statement was greeted.
From the point of view of the man in the Harlem barbershop, Bobby Kennedy only got here yesterday and now he's already on his way to the presidency. We've been here for four hundred years and now he tells us that maybe in forty years, if you're good, we may let you become president.”

― James Baldwin, I Am Not Your Negro

So when you talk about the "will of the people" I don't know if you want to use that as the best barometer for progress in American society.

when I said Be honest with yourself....how much of what trusk is doing do you actually disagree with in principle vs execution???

I wasnt throwing a job at you...I thought about it myself and honestly...there are SOME things I agree with trump IN PRINCIPLE. The idea that departments or systems not functioning as they should and therefore destroy them and start anew isn't a bad idea IN PRINCIPLE....its their EXECUTION that's all fucked up. HOW they're doing what they're doing is a HUGE problem...

this was my assessment of the things he's done in the first 2 months of his term

now there many things I disagree with but some things I do or are meh about (which considering his low bar may as well be agreement)

And I suspect many of us feel the same way to some degree.

so again I ask...how much of what trusk is doing do you actually disagree with in principle vs execution???

I say again, i don’t agree with any of it.

I just know unelected politicians can’t help anyone. I know that if Kamala had connected a little better on inflation and crime and won the election, we would be in much better shape.

If you have decided you would rather lose than to try a platform that would be received by more people, why are you even asking the question in this thread?

Just push the messages you want and lose if people don’t like them.

I mean you are basically saying you would rather have Trump than change up Dem messaging. The difference between our positions is that I so want to avoid more Republican rule that I want to do whatever we can within reason to win this next election. You want to win but only if you can win it your way.

 

[geechiedan]

I say again, i don’t agree with any of it.

I just know unelected politicians can’t help anyone. I know that if Kamala had connected a little better on inflation and crime and won the election, we would be in much better shape.

If you have decided you would rather lose than to try a platform that would be received by more people, why are you even asking the question in this thread?

Just push the messages you want and lose if people don’t like them.

I mean you are basically saying you would rather have Trump than change up Dem messaging. The difference between our positions is that I so want to avoid more Republican rule that I want to do whatever we can within reason to win this next election. You want to win but only if you can win it your way.

Thats not what I'm saying at all. i'm saying that messaging is driven by values. You want the dems to say anything to get back in the driver's seat then "do good" but what does that mean??

Say things that people wanna hear to get elected then do the opposite? Isnt that what people complained about the dems before...particularly with Obama??

Hey I get your frustration and all but what we're really talking about is the dems probably need more to the center right to get any foothold back with the electorate.

 

[Big Tex]

Thats not what I'm saying at all. i'm saying that messaging is driven by values. You want the dems to say anything to get back in the driver's seat then "do good" but what does that mean??

Say things that people wanna hear to get elected then do the opposite? Isnt that what people complained about the dems before...particularly with Obama??

Hey I get your frustration and all but what we're really talking about is the dems probably need more to the center right to get any foothold back with the electorate.

What I'm saying is that if voters tell you that crime and inflation are their top concerns and a party's response is "we don't think those are major concerns. We're going to message on what WE care about" then you can't be surprised if those voters don't vote for you.

Dems have been trying for 10 years to convince voters to care about what political Dems care about. They made plays of the Mueller report. They read the reports aloud on podcasts. They put the impeachment and investigations on national TV. Kamala talked about project 2025 every day.

At some point does the party take the hint the voters will never be forced to care about what Dems care about?

Is it such a violation of Democratic values to concentrate on the cost of living? If you're someone that is working two jobs and driving Uber on weekends and you still might get evicted next weekend, you're not going to give a single solitary fuck about an immigrant that has been deported - you're more worried that you and your children will be homeless in two weeks.

And no amount of talk about "due process" or "the Constitution" or "the rule of law" is going to change that. Then to have a party say, we don't care about what you care about. We're going to talk about what we care about... It's no wonder the favorability of the party is so low.

I get it, the Dems have their values and they're going to run on them come hell or high water even if they lose the next 20 elections.

Just for reference, we have been here before. The Dems were losing presidential election after election. Reagan, Reagan, Bush. In one of those elections, they only won two(!) states. Then Bill Clinton came along and his team invented "it's the economy, stupid" and then we got Clinton, Clinton, Obama, Obama. Id say the country and the party were better off for Clinton and Obama having been more open to the concerns of the voters instead of losing for all those years.

 

[kidmegaii]

I’ve said this before; just don’t run a woman for president; problem solved…

Wholeheartedly agree!

 

[kidmegaii]

Hey I get your frustration and all but what we're really talking about is the dems probably need more to the center right to get any foothold back with the electorate.

What are these center right policies the electorate is looking for? Please don't include LGBTQ or immigration in your answer?

 

[^SpiderMan^]

Gavin Newson/Wes Moore

Gavin Newsom is a horrible candidate. If he runs, he will definitely lose. Trump didn't win because he was a good candidate, but because he ran against worse candidates(Hillary and Kamala). Democrats will be making the same mistake a 3rd time by running Gavin Newsom. Unfortunately, I suspect this will happen in that there is a feeling that it is "his turn" rather than they taking a pragmatic approach and running a likeable candidate with no dirt or asterisks.

 

[^SpiderMan^]

What are these center right policies the electorate is looking for? Please don't include LGBTQ or immigration in your answer?

LGBTQ and immigration are key issues. Why not include them?

 

[kidmegaii]

LGBTQ and immigration are key issues. Why not include them?

Bullshit amplified nonsense republicans use as a wedge issue to cover for the fact they have no desire to improve the lives for everyday Americans.

 

[darth frosty]

Worthy viewing

 

[roblo]

Bullshit amplified nonsense republicans use as a wedge issue to cover for the fact they have no desire to improve the lives for everyday Americans.

You can call it bullshit if you want too, but both of my Trump hating sisters in California voted for a republican for the first time ever and these were two major issues.

 

[chitownsfinest]

Gavin Newsom is a horrible candidate. If he runs, he will definitely lose. Trump didn't win because he was a good candidate, but because he ran against worse candidates(Hillary and Kamala). Democrats will be making the same mistake a 3rd time by running Gavin Newsom. Unfortunately, I suspect this will happen in that there is a feeling that it is "his turn" rather than they taking a pragmatic approach and running a likeable candidate with no dirt or asterisks.

Hillary and Kamila were "bad candidates" because they were women...period. Gavin can out shit-talk trump with ease. And Wes Moore has a military background. Imagine what he would do to JD Vance in a debate!?!

Plus Gavin had the balls to come out against trannies in sports. He knows he needs to move the party to the center.

 

[mcguyver]

The fact that you think listening to voters is a conservative position is why Dems are losing.

I disagree with every single thing Trump and Musk are doing.

I alo understand that it doesn't matter what I think. It's what the voters think. The purpose of an elected representative is to represent the will of the voters - not to tell them what to think.

There is a difference between an activist and a representative.

My question for you is why do you think politicians don't have to listen to the desires of the people they want to vote for them?

Tex, I hear you bruh. I look at this like an abusive relationship where a person tries to intervene to save the abused. But the abused says fuck you, you ain't shit, leave the abuser alone. The abuser. The abuser kicks the shit out of the abused even infront of the person who tried to intervene. The abused says, why aren't you doing anything to stop my abuser, how could you standby and watch this happen... blah blah blah.

My point is everyone who is looking for the dens to save them needs to call one of them hotlines.

 

[^SpiderMan^]

Bullshit amplified nonsense republicans use as a wedge issue to cover for the fact they have no desire to improve the lives for everyday Americans.

This may be your personal feeling, but their stances on LBGTQ and immigration is very polarizing.

You can call it bullshit if you want too, but both of my Trump hating sisters in California voted for a republican for the first time ever and these were two major issues.

Yeah my observations as well.

Hillary and Kamila were "bad candidates" because they were women...period. Gavin can out shit-talk trump with ease. And Wes Moore has a military background. Imagine what he would do to JD Vance in a debate!?!

Plus Gavin had the balls to come out against trannies in sports. He knows he needs to move the party to the center.

I agree as far as Hillary and Kamala. Gavin is a very unlikeable candidate with a lot of dirt on him. His ex wife is Trump Jr’s wife. He fucked his best friend’s wife, he went to rehab while in office, and at the height of Covid, while talking shit about Trump not having enough restrictions, he was caught out at dinner with a group with no masks on. California isn’t looked at as favorably as he thinks either. Pretty much anybody would beat Gavin in a national election.

 

[geechiedan]

What I'm saying is that if voters tell you that crime and inflation are their top concerns and a party's response is "we don't think those are major concerns. We're going to message on what WE care about" then you can't be surprised if those voters don't vote for you.

Dems have been trying for 10 years to convince voters to care about what political Dems care about. They made plays of the Mueller report. They read the reports aloud on podcasts. They put the impeachment and investigations on national TV. Kamala talked about project 2025 every day.

but the mueller report did do damage...trump lost to biden

At some point does the party take the hint the voters will never be forced to care about what Dems care about?

Is it such a violation of Democratic values to concentrate on the cost of living? If you're someone that is working two jobs and driving Uber on weekends and you still might get evicted next weekend, you're not going to give a single solitary fuck about an immigrant that has been deported - you're more worried that you and your children will be homeless in two weeks.

And no amount of talk about "due process" or "the Constitution" or "the rule of law" is going to change that. Then to have a party say, we don't care about what you care about. We're going to talk about what we care about... It's no wonder the favorability of the party is so low.

I get it, the Dems have their values and they're going to run on them come hell or high water even if they lose the next 20 elections.

Just for reference, we have been here before. The Dems were losing presidential election after election. Reagan, Reagan, Bush. In one of those elections, they only won two(!) states. Then Bill Clinton came along and his team invented "it's the economy, stupid" and then we got Clinton, Clinton, Obama, Obama. Id say the country and the party were better off for Clinton and Obama having been more open to the concerns of the voters instead of losing for all those years.

all of this is questionable considering trump has only run in the general against female candidates...so we have to consider that sexism/gender bias is a major factor here

 

[geechiedan]

What are these center right policies the electorate is looking for? Please don't include LGBTQ or immigration in your answer?

immigration, economics, crime and punishment etc

 

[kidmegaii]

immigration, economics, crime and punishment etc

Removing immigration, crime and economics are not exclusive to the center right crowd. So what are center right policies should democrats abandon their base for to reach whote college education crackers?

 

[kidmegaii]

Worthy viewing

MSNBC & CNN use the word pivot. Pivot away from talking about policies that benefit everyday Americans, and start ensuring cooperate America knows they don't fuck with the poors.

 

[wedrinkandscrew]

Idk if it’s already been said in here or not cuz like Colin I ain’t reading all that shit but they better have they own 2025 playbook for 2028 and hit the fuckn ground running. Trump giving them the blueprint…flood the zone. Make Puerto Rico and DC states, add 2 Supreme Court justices to the court to make a total of 11, etc…just fuckn do it, don’t ask, don’t confer, just do it.

 

[chitownsfinest]

This may be your personal feeling, but their stances on LBGTQ and immigration is very polarizing.

Yeah my observations as well.

I agree as far as Hillary and Kamala. Gavin is a very unlikeable candidate with a lot of dirt on him. His ex wife is Trump Jr’s wife. He fucked his best friend’s wife, he went to rehab while in office, and at the height of Covid, while talking shit about Trump not having enough restrictions, he was caught out at dinner with a group with no masks on. California isn’t looked at as favorably as he thinks either. Pretty much anybody would beat Gavin in a national election.

The "Mr. Perfect" Obama clone candidate doesn't exist. Plus no mater his dirt, he didn't get with a porn slore.

 

[geechiedan]

Bullshit amplified nonsense republicans use as a wedge issue to cover for the fact they have no desire to improve the lives for everyday Americans.

there is some validity tho....when trump declared the US only recognizes two genders....didnt see a big uproar..or any uproar about it did you??

Removing immigration, crime and economics are not exclusive to the center right crowd. So what are center right policies should democrats abandon their base for to reach whote college education crackers?

we're talking degrees here.. you guy are saying dems are focused on the wrong things and when they do something thats more hardcore they get blasted by liberal media for it...it wasnt conservatives who called Obama the deporter -in-chief and said it as a pejorative.

 

[chitownsfinest]

but the mueller report did do damage...trump lost to biden

all of this is questionable considering trump has only run in the general against female candidates...so we have to consider that sexism/gender bias is a major factor here

THIS MAN GETS IT (tho he did lose to Biden). trump has never beat another man.

 

[christop]

Just blame the tariffs on almost every issue. They don't have to do anything complicated.

 

[geechiedan]

Idk if it’s already been said in here or not cuz like Colin I ain’t reading all that shit but they better have they own 2025 playbook for 2028 and hit the fuckn ground running. Trump giving them the blueprint…flood the zone. Make Puerto Rico and DC states, add 2 Supreme Court justices to the court to make a total of 11, etc…just fuckn do it, don’t ask, don’t confer, just do it.

if theres one thing that orange fuck showed is that the executive office has more latitude than we thought.

 

[geechiedan]

Just blame the tariffs on almost every issue. They don't have to do anything complicated.

I would go farther and say that trump is roiling the markets just by opening his mouth...which he does...then make a conspiracy theory out of it between him and musk.

 

[Supersav]

Markets are great

 

[christop]

I would go farther and say that trump is roiling the markets just by opening his mouth...which he does...then make a conspiracy theory out of it between him and musk.

I think that's overly complicated. Everyone knows Trump is implementing the policy and Musk is already disliked and not holding an actual office.

 

[DC_Dude]

I will say keep things simple. Pick 3 key talking points and stick to that. In public speaking, it's always recommended to pick no more than 3 themes and talk around that...Anything more, people get bored....

Plus so many people in this country don't read or use critical thinking skills so you got to take a basic approach to get across to most people....

Plus no woman....This country isn't there yet...

 

[darth frosty]

 

[kidmegaii]

there is some validity tho....when trump declared the US only recognizes two genders....didnt see a big uproar..or any uproar about it did you??

we're talking degrees here.. you guy are saying dems are focused on the wrong things and when they do something thats more hardcore they get blasted by liberal media for it...it wasnt conservatives who called Obama the deporter -in-chief and said it as a pejorative.

Ain't no validity to it. 97 different republicans can talk about tranny shit get caught with trannies, but when one democrat says they have the right to exist, you got fools screaming "all they do is talk about LGBTQ". This shit is nothing more than wedge/filler that keeps people from talking about actual issues and democratic leadership loves it.


What are the center right policy that you feel will get them elected? What was the center right policy that had Harris sitting next to Cheney?