Exactly, win or lose, he deserves the right. But Manny and his teams hesitation to fight him lets me know that they don't expect an easy fight. Because aside from PBF, MArquez is the most cake Manny can make right now.
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Exactly, win or lose, he deserves the right. But Manny and his teams hesitation to fight him lets me know that they don't expect an easy fight. Because aside from PBF, MArquez is the most cake Manny can make right now.
Thats cause you got a hard on for me whenever I talk. i think at 37 JMM should snack on weaker comp to close his career out than risk a once in a lifetime beating from Manny. Make the easy money because it is there for him to make.
JMM is so good and his offense is so explosive that his slippage is not obvious to everyone. I think that a testament to this is how he can't make easy money against even a B level fighter like Katsidis. Even though he got the stoppage, Marquez seemed to be going life and death in there in spots and seemed to be getting overwhelmed on the ropes at times. Of course, we saw him get blasted to the canvas yet again. Marquez took a lot of shots and is lucky Katsidis didn't move his hands more from the beginning. There's a lot of ranting and raving about how Marquez is supposed to be such a boxing genius in there but going life and death with a Katisidis is not a good sign just like it wasn't for Casamayor. A youthful guy like Tim Bradley, Maidana, or Khanwould really show where JMM is at. That's probably one reason why JMM is staying at lightweight.There's nothing really going on at that weight class so it's interesting that he wouldn't just fight at 140. I think he is looking for either the easiest fights or fights that he might lose but be able to cash out on-the Pacquiao fight.
None of those fights were supposed to be easy for Pacquiao. The fact that they turned out easy doesn't have anything to do with who Marquez has been fighting.
the comedy.....
Cotto is good, but I doubt Arum would risk it when Cotto's image is still shaky. I like Saul Alvarez as an opponent it might still be early but I think both guys are hyped up let them take each other to that next level...
Caballero is kind of like P Will in the since that they are sloppy fighters who were able to get away with it based off their abnormal frame.
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see i missed all but froch-abe fight because of my HS reunion last night but from what i pieced and read from here and other forums it seems that katsidis-marquez was the fight of the night as expected and i was only 1 round off my prediction lol...and smh at caballero droppin a split to glass joe litzau..fuck outta here...and it seems that ward-bika was a damned good and dirty brawl..ill be catching all of this when i get back to my place later..oh and props to berto for knocking that cat out in 1 now lets see him do that to a top guy
He already said about a month ago that he's moving up to 140. I've been hearing this slipping shit literally for years and all he keeps doing is winning and ko'ing dudes. I was watching a fight of his where he was 32 and they were talking slippage before the fight - after the fight it was "he's as good as he ever was". Ya'll niccas are just full of excuses. You're also forgetting that Katsidis was the bigger stronger guy, a natural lightweight, he pushed Marquez back physically, but whenever he got close Marquez was eating him for lunch. He landed over half his power connects and had landed over 200 punches halfway through the fight.
Berto would lose, he can't fight those rough inside fights, he proved it against Collazo and Luis doesn't have half Cotto's power. Personally I feel Berto is a bit overrated.
Excuses for what? I haven't tried to excuse anything. If anything I'm giving Marquez the benefit of the doubt by saying that he's having to go to war with inferior fighters because he's slipped. Well, I guess that can be construed as making an excuse in favor of Marquez but I don't think you'd be so offended if that was what you had interpreted. Let see what happens to Marquez when he moves to 140. I predict any of those young champions hand his ass to him except Devon Alexander who is the least ready of the bunch IMO.
Caballero was overweight, out of shape, and stylistically has never looked good against anyone his own height back from the Mathebula and Cordoba days. Caballero should not even pursue a rematch because stylistically and physically, Litzau is not for him. He should just stay at 122 or 126 and feast on contenders like Chris John does since none of the other champs at those weights want to fight him. Actually, since he looked like a total ball of shit last night, he may have better luck getting some of those fights.
They got to take into account Marquez fighting style. When you stand head to head with motherfuckers you are gonna to get hit especially against young fighters with heart. I thought those were the only type of fights these niggas respect. Either way the stats tell the story of the fight even if they are so blind to really believe Marquez was going through life and death. Which is odd way to slant the fight because Marquez got the best of at least 80% of the exchanges.
I think he would lose to but Arum wants cake walks and Berto is still good enough to give a shaky fighter a scare. Cotto barely got out of that Clottey fight and Clottey stopped fighting after the 8th round. So if he can avoid being reckless and stay off the ground Berto has a chance to win.
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I know you don't believe in the southpaw factor but Berto like Devon Alexander like Oscar de La Hoya seems lost in there against lefties. Even Carlos Quintana gave Berto problems. Berto has serious problems defending against southpaw lead lefts, serious problems landing consistently on a southpaw moving to his left and he has extreme difficulty cutting off the ring on a southpaw. This is not because Quintana and Collazo are such finessed stylists. Even the lefty Urango gave Berto problems just off of his stance.
Cotto will be squared up in front of Berto and Berto will knock him into next week. Berto will almost always look spectacular against a righty.
I know, right. While exciting, a "life and death" battle it was not. Very similar to how the Mayweather fight with Hatton look tight but when you see the stats, it's a blowout.
I just read this.
Which one of those fights was supposed to be "easy"? Even in the Clottey fight people were like "Clottey's big and strong, what's Pac gonna do when he can't hurt him" etc. When he fought Hatton, all the talk was about how nice Hatton was hitting the pads and how Mayweather Sr had transmitted black slickness to him. No one anticipated Pac obliterating him like that. The general consensus wasn't that any of those fights were just going to be easy Pac blowouts.
Stats rarely tell the entire story of a fight. Hey, if we look at the final stats for the Caballero-Litzau fight we can ascertain that Caballero dominated Litzau but was robbed. Did that really happen? No, but that's what the stats would appear to say.
Marquez seeking Round 3 with champ Pacquiao
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=5860025
Juan Manuel Marquez didn't waste any time after defending his lightweight title before setting his sights on Round 3 with Manny Pacquiao.
Marquez stopped Michael Katsidis in the ninth round Saturday night at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas, winning an all-action battle and certain candidate for Fight of the Year. Moments later, he turned his attention to settling the score with the man considered the best in the world.
"Obviously, Pacquiao is my priority. I'll go up to 140 [pounds], it's no problem," Marquez said through a translator. "Stop making excuses, Manny. Fight me."
[+] EnlargeMichael Katsidis, Juan Manuel Marquez
Mark Ralston/AFP/Getty ImagesJuan Manuel Marquez rocks Michael Katsidis on Saturday night before beating him by ninth-round TKO in Las Vegas. Marquez said afterward a third fight with Manny Pacquiao is "my priority."
The two have met twice before, and both of the bouts were thrilling. They fought to a 12-round draw in 2004, and Pacquiao won a close split decision in March 2008.
Pacquiao, who has discussed retiring in three years, said at a news conference Monday in Manila that he's willing to fight Marquez again but that the match would probably not excite fans. He sounded doubtful himself, saying "I would not watch Pacquiao vs. Marquez."
Pacquiao promoter Bob Arum said in a phone interview with The Associated Press on Sunday that a third fight with Marquez is a distinct possibility, although just like everyone else, he's waiting to see whether Floyd Mayweather Jr. steps into the ring against Pacquiao in what could be the richest fight in boxing history.
Other candidates include Shane Mosley, who has already put financial numbers on the table for a fight, and welterweight titleholder Andre Berto, who looked sensational in a first-round knockout of Freddy Hernandez on the Marquez undercard Saturday night.
"Mayweather is the priority, but if he doesn't want the fight for whatever reason, then there are three possibilities: Mosley, Berto and Marquez," Arum said. "All I need is two numbers at this stage to go to Pacquiao on: what guarantee they're looking for and how much per home above a certain number [on the pay-per-view]."
Arum wouldn't say what he's been offered by Mosley, but Antonio Margarito received $3 million plus $3 per home over 700,000 buys for his loss to Pacquiao earlier this month. Marquez received $4 million plus $1 per home over a million when he lost to Mayweather last year.
The Top Rank boss plans to discuss a fight with Berto promoter Lou DiBella on Monday, and hopes to touch base with Marquez's people later in the week. Arum's flying to the Philippines on Dec. 12 to celebrate Pacquiao's birthday, and will present the offers then.
"My phone is on," said Richard Schaefer of Golden Boy Promotions, which represents Marquez. "If the Pacquiao vs. Marquez III fight isn't happening, it's not because of Golden Boy."
Whomever is chosen to fight Pacquiao, easily the sport's biggest box office attraction, Arum said the fight will be at 147 pounds and there will be no co-promotion -- unless the opponent is Mayweather. Otherwise, Top Rank will handle the entire process.
"If we do a deal with Marquez, and it'd be a money deal, they can come and represent Marquez at press conferences and that kind of stuff, but they wouldn't have anything to do with the promotion, nor would Lou," Arum said. "They would in effect be signing the fighter to us, because at this point, Manny doesn't have to do co-promotions with anybody."
The weight stipulation might only be an issue for Marquez, who dropped back to the 135-pound lightweight limit and looked stellar his past two fights. He won an easy decision over Juan Diaz in July before out-slugging Katsidis on Saturday night.
The only time Marquez has fought above lightweight, he was soundly beaten by Mayweather.
Pacquiao, meanwhile, has carried his power with him as he's moved up in weight, and his victory over Margarito earned him a title at junior middleweight -- extending his own record for championships to eight divisions. Even then, Pacquiao only weighed 144½ pounds, while Margarito tipped the scales at the contractual limit of 150 pounds.
"The weights are ridiculous because it's the day before that you're weighing, and look at Manny before fighting Margarito, he was a much bigger man," Arum said. "So whatever Marquez weighs, he's going to come in close to Manny."
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=5860025
Juan Manuel Marquez didn't waste any time after defending his lightweight title before setting his sights on Round 3 with Manny Pacquiao.
Marquez stopped Michael Katsidis in the ninth round Saturday night at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas, winning an all-action battle and certain candidate for Fight of the Year. Moments later, he turned his attention to settling the score with the man considered the best in the world.
"Obviously, Pacquiao is my priority. I'll go up to 140 [pounds], it's no problem," Marquez said through a translator. "Stop making excuses, Manny. Fight me."
[+] EnlargeMichael Katsidis, Juan Manuel Marquez
Mark Ralston/AFP/Getty ImagesJuan Manuel Marquez rocks Michael Katsidis on Saturday night before beating him by ninth-round TKO in Las Vegas. Marquez said afterward a third fight with Manny Pacquiao is "my priority."
The two have met twice before, and both of the bouts were thrilling. They fought to a 12-round draw in 2004, and Pacquiao won a close split decision in March 2008.
Pacquiao, who has discussed retiring in three years, said at a news conference Monday in Manila that he's willing to fight Marquez again but that the match would probably not excite fans. He sounded doubtful himself, saying "I would not watch Pacquiao vs. Marquez."
Pacquiao promoter Bob Arum said in a phone interview with The Associated Press on Sunday that a third fight with Marquez is a distinct possibility, although just like everyone else, he's waiting to see whether Floyd Mayweather Jr. steps into the ring against Pacquiao in what could be the richest fight in boxing history.
Other candidates include Shane Mosley, who has already put financial numbers on the table for a fight, and welterweight titleholder Andre Berto, who looked sensational in a first-round knockout of Freddy Hernandez on the Marquez undercard Saturday night.
"Mayweather is the priority, but if he doesn't want the fight for whatever reason, then there are three possibilities: Mosley, Berto and Marquez," Arum said. "All I need is two numbers at this stage to go to Pacquiao on: what guarantee they're looking for and how much per home above a certain number [on the pay-per-view]."
Arum wouldn't say what he's been offered by Mosley, but Antonio Margarito received $3 million plus $3 per home over 700,000 buys for his loss to Pacquiao earlier this month. Marquez received $4 million plus $1 per home over a million when he lost to Mayweather last year.
The Top Rank boss plans to discuss a fight with Berto promoter Lou DiBella on Monday, and hopes to touch base with Marquez's people later in the week. Arum's flying to the Philippines on Dec. 12 to celebrate Pacquiao's birthday, and will present the offers then.
"My phone is on," said Richard Schaefer of Golden Boy Promotions, which represents Marquez. "If the Pacquiao vs. Marquez III fight isn't happening, it's not because of Golden Boy."
Whomever is chosen to fight Pacquiao, easily the sport's biggest box office attraction, Arum said the fight will be at 147 pounds and there will be no co-promotion -- unless the opponent is Mayweather. Otherwise, Top Rank will handle the entire process.
"If we do a deal with Marquez, and it'd be a money deal, they can come and represent Marquez at press conferences and that kind of stuff, but they wouldn't have anything to do with the promotion, nor would Lou," Arum said. "They would in effect be signing the fighter to us, because at this point, Manny doesn't have to do co-promotions with anybody."
The weight stipulation might only be an issue for Marquez, who dropped back to the 135-pound lightweight limit and looked stellar his past two fights. He won an easy decision over Juan Diaz in July before out-slugging Katsidis on Saturday night.
The only time Marquez has fought above lightweight, he was soundly beaten by Mayweather.
Pacquiao, meanwhile, has carried his power with him as he's moved up in weight, and his victory over Margarito earned him a title at junior middleweight -- extending his own record for championships to eight divisions. Even then, Pacquiao only weighed 144½ pounds, while Margarito tipped the scales at the contractual limit of 150 pounds.
"The weights are ridiculous because it's the day before that you're weighing, and look at Manny before fighting Margarito, he was a much bigger man," Arum said. "So whatever Marquez weighs, he's going to come in close to Manny."
For the people not paying attention here is where the bullshit comes into play.
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and why does this article says EASILY the biggest box office attraction when he doesnt even sell more than Floyd
I would actually like to see the Marquez fight..but i dont think it will happen...too difficult of a fight...Arum will put him in front of someone slow-footed because he is still hoping for a mayweather fight
Caballero has always looked like shit to me, you know I've said this in the past. He ALWAYS threw wide swinging punches, he ALWAYS had a very sloppy style and weight had nothing to do with it. Nor did fighting - a guy as tall as him?!?!? C'mon man
That dude proved that he is in no way shape or form a world class fighter - let alone featherweight. I agree totally with your last statement though. Given the bitchmade state of boxing today, everybody will want to fight him now.
and why does this article says EASILY the biggest box office attraction when he doesnt even sell more than Floyd
I would actually like to see the Marquez fight..but i dont think it will happen...too difficult of a fight...Arum will put him in front of someone slow-footed because he is still hoping for a mayweather fight
Them niccas are doing everything to sabotage the 2 biggest threats to Manny. They want no part of Marquez or Floyd. Both classical boxers. They'll fight Mosley is my prediction. I sincerely hope Mosley pulls one last great performance out of his ass and lays this fucker out.
Those are the only 2 words thrown around about Manny's recent opponents. Big and strong. Bigger and stronger only come into play when the bigger, stronger guy is, as good as, or a better boxer than the smaller one, has better footwork, faster hands, more skills. When the little guy comes in with every other advantage other than bigger and stronger, and the big strong guy either can't box or generally keep up with the smaller guys footwork, speed and skills, it's usually easy for them to win since they are FASTER. And when that guy is Pacquiao who has heart and a great chin to boot - yeah they are easy fights, and all ARUM fighters. Like someone said before, they follow the script.
and why does this article says EASILY the biggest box office attraction when he doesnt even sell more than Floyd
I would actually like to see the Marquez fight..but i dont think it will happen...too difficult of a fight...Arum will put him in front of someone slow-footed because he is still hoping for a mayweather fight
I think it is an easy fight for Manny. Probably the easiest he has had for a while. The only fight that is easier that they are talking about making is the one against shane. Pbf fight is a tbd fight for me. It could go either way.
Why would it be an easy fight now?... they certainly werent easy the first time and although Manny has improved...he certainly is facing the types of fighters who perfectly fit his style..I think a marquez fight at 140 would really prove that he has improved if he can beat him convincingly.
To me it is so clear Manny is not the same fighter today that he was when they last fought. Do you think JMM would have duplicated Manny results against Cotto, Hatton, Oscar, Antonio, and whoever I forgot?
If you think JMM would have then I see your point. Also Manny is not dropping to fight a guy he already beat. i dont see it. But if he does I dont expect it to change the results. i am sure JMM is going to get ktfo. If he let that young green dude knock him down as a lightweight I dont see him besting Manny. If these big dudes could not put a dent in Manny what chance does JMM stand?
That is a very irrelevant question. The original premise is how they would match up against EACH OTHER..not about how they would match up against a list of other fighters. That completely changes the dynamics. Everyone on that list were slow-footer fighters that sat in front of Pacman and were not defensive oriented counterpunchers...which Manny struggles with more than any other style.
So I still have a question as to how much Manny has really improved because he is being matched up with opponents that put a shine on his strengths.
I have stated for a while that Manny APPEARS to have improved a lot...but until he fights a defensive oriented counterpuncher who is also quick...I am not 100 percent sold.
Maybe he would beat Marquez convincingly....but his last 4 fights are not any proof of that since those fighters are completely different fighters than Marquez.
Why respond to that bs? Everybody here had Pacquiao winning all of those fights. The common consensus was that DLH was shot (plus he was doing that dumb weight shit) and Hatton was overrated. Margarito is only loved by some goofy niggas on here and some Mexican fans, but I told niggas when they were first talking about that dumb fight that it was an easy win for Pac. Clottey was thought to be a guy who gives away fights even by Clottey fans like myself, but he was the only real opponent who had the skills to compete but he didn't have the fight in him. We have said these things on this board prior to each fight and the general belief was that these were easy fights. The only people going crazy about these dumb fights are the same two who think a little guy beating up big guys who can't or won't fight back is worth anything.
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Whatever. None of this changes the fact that those were not considered easy fights for Pac until AFTER he beat the hell out of those guys.
Manny's last four fight are testament to how much better he has gotten. JMM last for show how he is slipping in my opinion. Honestly you can find flaws to stress with any fighter if you want. I mean if you think JMM is a test then that is what you think. I feel for any lightway that gets in the ring with Manny.
So what? Yeah, everybody had him winning. Did everybody have him blowing these guys to smithereens in easy fashion? No. That's what we're talking about. No one is saying he was not the favorite to win in those fights.
Wow....
Manny and Marquez fight different fights in general. Manny takes less damage because of his footwork and wack opponents (except Cotto before he decided he would bully Pac). Put Manny in front of a good counter puncher who stays on plan... like the first round in the Cotto fight, the Marquez fights and when Clottey let his hands go.... Manny will have problems.