Question for the atheist?

[sean69]

You can say that about a million other things. No the onus is on the people making the claim to show evidence, it doesn't go both ways.

Yes it does. Science can't prove anything. One more time. Science can't prove anything.

Faith is a personal experience. Just like love, happiness and grief.

Scientific inquiry and methodology starts with induction which is also a personal experience.

Do you love your mom? If so, prove it. Sure you can give me a bunch of reasons that are typically correlated with love and affection why you do but so can a psychopathic serial killer with a dissociative personality disorder ... right after stabbing his mother to death.

 

[mikemagic63]

Most atheists recognize they are really agnostic. But if you are 99% confident there is no god, they why call yourself agnostic? It is just a semantic difference.

 

[Punch]

Yes it does. Science can't prove anything. One more time. Science can't prove anything.

Faith is a personal experience. Just like love, happiness and grief.

Do you love your mom? If so, prove it. Sure you can give me a bunch of reasons that are typically correlated with love and affection why you do but so can a psychopathic serial killer with a dissociative personality disorder ... right after stabbing his mother to death.

1) When science deads, proves or refutes something that was once believed by Religion... it stays deaded.

for example -- The earth is flat and is the center of the universe.

OR

Apollo the Sun God pulls the Sun across the sky using his chariot.

You see those are Bronzed age beliefs and if you didnt believe those at the time you wouldve been considered an Atheist at best but most likely put to death....Give that a sec to marinate

 

[ned pepper]

OK if there is a God then he needs to give his believers better arguments and more logical things to believe in.
Most of all my friends are religious. And i dont knock their faith as long as they acknowledge that it is "Faith". people believe in several things, hell i believed the celtics would win game 6. and look how that turned out?
as a nonbeliever i hate hearing people profess their faith as much as i hate seeing two gays make out. my only thing is keep that shit to yourself. i was raised in the church and i have a very good life. but i just didnt see any answers in religion. i think people use religion as a drug to temporarily make them feel better about being who they are.

 

[sean69]

1) When science deads, proves or refutes something that was once believed by Religion... it stays deaded.

for example -- The earth is flat and is the center of the universe.

OR

Apollo the Sun God pulls the Sun across the sky using his chariot.

You see those are Bronzed age beliefs and if you didnt believe those at the time you wouldve been considered an Atheist at best but most likely put to death....Give that a sec to marinate

See, it's typical for extremists like atheists and religious fundamentalists to resort to superlative arguments like yours.

1) I'm not comparing scientific "beliefs" with religious beliefs. So you can burn that straw man premise for starters.

2) No it doesn't always stay "deaded". It's pretty obvious that science is dynamic and our knowledge of our world continues to evolve.

Are you familiar with the the scientific theory of Phlogiston? If not, look it up.

How about, arguably the greatest scientific protagonist of all time, Isaac Newton's Corpuscular Theory of Light? Why do you think it took precedence over Christiaan Huygens' Wave Front Theory of Light which provided a more accurate description and prediction of the interaction of light with matter? And then later in the 20th century, Feynman's Quantum Electrodynamics.

And these are just a few examples.

Of course there's loads physical evidence supporting a non-flat earth, satellite pictures being the most compelling, but still it's just a bunch of physical evidence which does not constitute a complete and absolute description of reality. But let's keep the convo shallow for now.

There are many rational beliefs that can not be scientifically verified or "proven". Aesthetic judgments for example.

Science is permeated with "unprovable" assumptions. For example, Einstein's Special Theory of Relativity hinges on the assumption that the speed of light is constant in a one-way direction between any two points A and B. This BELIEF can't be scientifically "proven" yet this theory is one of the gems of contemporary physics.

Think about these things and give it a sec to marinate ...

 

[ShortyCumStain]

Ah hell, here we go.

 

[Punch]

Give that a sec to marinate

 

[sean69]

As expected, you dodge the argument.

Think for yourself dude...

 

[Blunt]

As expected. Dodging the facts.

Think for yourself dude.

There are no "facts" when it comes to religion or God. That's the point. Which is fine, as long as believers keep that insane shit to themselves.

 

[sean69]

There are no "facts" when it comes to religion or God. That's the point. Which is fine, as long as believers keep that insane shit to themselves.

I edited. I meant to say argument. And i'm not arguing FOR religious INSTITUTION.
Did you even read anyth of what I posted?

Why people can't make that distinction between religious institution and religious experience puzzles me. Well, sort of.

Like I said, it's easy to argue superlatives. Even a caveman can do it.

 

[Punch]

As expected, you dodge the argument.

Think for yourself dude...

I am a rational person...which is why I ALWAYS think for myself, and Im not going to type a Colin worthy response for something that is imaginary.

 

[sean69]

I am a rational person...which is why I ALWAYS think for myself, and Im not going to type a Colin worthy response for something that is imaginary.

Collin worthy? Good one.

No one is asking you to type a dessertation. You're the one that quoted and responded to my post in the first place. All I did was your rationale.

I gave examples that refute your claim that once science "proves" something that's it, it's a wrap.

I gave an example of how assumptions and belief play a role in the formulation of an otherwise infallible scientific theory.

You post a Youtube clip of a CAC going off on the typical "religion is irrational and evil" schpeel. How Original.

But hey, carry on my friend. I'm not here to "prove" anything to you.

 

[ShortyCumStain]

I find it absolutely hilarious how Christians can tell you how it is in the afterlife and how great Jesus is but they're terrified of life and death. They live their entire lives fighting their human nature in order to gain admission to an afterlife paradise that they are afraid to go to because they are afraid to die. Christians speak about the truth but their actions show that they are the most lost on the planet. They don't know about the Earth, they don't know about the Cosmos, they don't know about the Waters, they don't know about the Body, or the Mind...they simply rely on faith to get them through this realm of existence because thinking requires effort.

Ether.

 

[Olosi]

If you dont believe in a God, any God. That means you must be all knowing or Omniscience. To be an atheist you must have absolute knowledge that there is no God in the entire universe. And if you know for a fact there is no God b/c you have that knowledge than you probably are a God and never identified yourself as one. I never ubderstood how people could be atheist. How can anyone in there right mind say that there is no such thing as a God? I dont get it.

It's called rejection and denial. You and an atheist exist on opposite sides of the same coin. Same logic to arrive at opposing inference.

 

[sean69]

I find it absolutely hilarious how Christians can tell you how it is in the afterlife and how great Jesus is but they're terrified of life and death. They live their entire lives fighting their human nature in order to gain admission to an afterlife paradise that they are afraid to go to because they are afraid to die. Christians speak about the truth but their actions show that they are the most lost on the planet. They don't know about the Earth, they don't know about the Cosmos, they don't know about the Waters, they don't know about the Body, or the Mind...they simply rely on faith to get them through this realm of existence because thinking requires effort.

C/S.

But this is hardly an argument against religion because pretty much all humans live in fear of death. That's the whole point of human nature.

As for knowledge of the earth, cosmos, mind, body, etc ... neither do atheists. Even though they swear they do. Which is equally hilarious.

 

[Olosi]

sq rt of 9 = 3 (because we agree on the conventions)

our first president on paper was george washington (John Hanson)

dinosaurs once inhabited the earth...( No actual proof. They may have been stranded due to inter dimensional instabilities or experiments gone awry)

man has been to space. ( A lot of people disagree)

there is no god.

(That remains to be seen. You'll find out when you die.)

There are regions of space and alternate realities in which these assumptions are false. Nothing is what you assume it to be.

Also here on Earth and on this plane, bad used to mean just that. Gay used to mean happy. Perspective and perception dictate subjective reality.

 

[sean69]

(That remains to be seen. You'll find out when you die.)

There are regions of space and alternate realities in which these assumptions are false. Nothing is what you assume it to be.

Also here on Earth and on this plane, bad used to mean just that. Gay used to mean happy. Perspective and perception dictate subjective reality.

Yep.

This should be common knowledge.

Get it?

 

[John_Gault]

If you dont believe in a God, any God. That means you must be all knowing or Omniscience. To be an atheist you must have absolute knowledge that there is no God in the entire universe. And if you know for a fact there is no God b/c you have that knowledge than you probably are a God and never identified yourself as one. I never ubderstood how people could be atheist. How can anyone in there right mind say that there is no such thing as a God? I dont get it.

I can't speak for anyone else, but you've made some incredible LEAPS with the your presumptions as to what an atheist 'knows' or understands(as opposed to believes) to begin with.

But peep it. If you REMOVE your assumptions about what MUST be the source of existence, and consider that 'GOD' is a concept created by man. And that existence itself, the concept of being alive, is so mind boggling complex, to think or believe that YOU or ANY being can grasp ANY insight, significant enough to describe and know ANYTHING that is so BEYOND anyones capacity to understand completely enough to point toward a single anthropomorphized entity as the source 'of it all' provokes incredulity.

The truth is we DON'T KNOW FUCK ALL ABOUT THE NATURE OR SUBSTANCE OF EXISTENCE . . . let alone a supposed single source of existence's existence, or non-existence for that matter.

So contrary to your supposition, for myself, I don't even understand the concept of GOD. Really, what IS THAT? It has EVERYTHING to do with what I DON'T KNOW more than what I THINK I KNOW. And THUS far, there's no evidence that existence requires a 'god'.


Folks get awestruck at reality, and forget that we are born into societies ALREADY culturally couched in systems of faith. THEN obliviously point at concepts born of that inculcation, not realizing that you're perception has already been shaped by the time you have the skills and level of inquiry to ponder the 'purpose and origin of existence/life' question.


Think about it.

JG

 

[sean69]

I can't speak for anyone else, but you've made some incredible LEAPS with the your presumptions as to what an atheist 'knows' or understands(as opposed to believes) to begin with.

But peep it. If you REMOVE your assumptions about what MUST be the source of existence, and consider that 'GOD' is a concept created by man. And that existence itself, the concept of being alive, is so mind boggling complex, to think or believe that YOU or ANY being can grasp ANY insight, significant enough to describe and know ANYTHING that is so BEYOND anyones capacity to understand completely enough to point toward a single anthropomorphized entity as the source 'of it all' provokes incredulity.

The truth is we DON'T KNOW FUCK ALL ABOUT THE NATURE OR SUBSTANCE OF EXISTENCE . . . let alone a supposed single source of existence's existence, or non-existence for that matter.

So contrary to your supposition, for myself, I don't even understand the concept of GOD. Really, what IS THAT? It has EVERYTHING to do with what I DON'T KNOW more than what I THINK I KNOW. And THUS far, there's no evidence that existence requires a 'god'.


Folks get awestruck at reality, and forget that we are born into societies ALREADY culturally couched in systems of faith. THEN obliviously point at concepts born of that inculcation, not realizing that you're perception has already been shaped by the time you have the skills and level of inquiry to ponder the 'purpose and origin of existence/life' question.


Think about it.

JG

Well said JG. Well said.

BTW, check out this thread I started. I'd like to know your thoughts.

http://www.bgol.us/board/showthread.php?t=500622

 

[cozmic33]

Inner Power Meditation

http://thewarriorscave.blogspot.com/2010/02/silat-tip-34-tenaga-dalam-yogic.html

Find your own proof

 

[mike123]

sean had to come in here makin sense

guess u lookin to piss both sides off

 

[Olosi]

Inner Power Meditation

http://thewarriorscave.blogspot.com/2010/02/silat-tip-34-tenaga-dalam-yogic.html

Find your own proof

Bookmarked

 

[John_Gault]

Well said JG. Well said.

BTW, check out this thread I started. I'd like to know your thoughts.

http://www.bgol.us/board/showthread.php?t=500622

Sure, but help me out with a little specificity, i.e. the thread as a whole, Neil Degrasse as a scientist, his deconstruction of I.D/human intelligence in your posted vids? I don't do well answering broad questions. Will do so later today. 'Bout to crash and get some zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

JG

 

[sean69]

Sure, but help me out with a little specificity, i.e. the thread as a whole, Neil Degrasse as a scientist, his deconstruction of I.D/human intelligence in your posted vids? I don't do well answering broad questions. Will do so later today. 'Bout to crash and get some zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

JG

Not Tyson as a scientists but his deconstruction (as you put it) of I.D. and human intelligence.

 

[Blunt]

As for knowledge of the earth, cosmos, mind, body, etc ... neither do atheists. Even though they swear they do. Which is equally hilarious.

So let me get this straight. You think The Bible is just as valid as science, biology, astronomy, nuclear physics and mathematics???

 

[sean69]

So let me get this straight. You think The Bible is just as valid as science, biology, astronomy, nuclear physics and mathematics???

And this is your conclusion from the stuff I posted?

Mr. Blunt, you are truly and unfailingly the idiot I've always thought you to be. Imbecile.

Next.

 

[J Storm]

Assuming there is one is a safer bet than assuming there isnt one. Even if I am wrong, what was the harm. Now lets say there is one and your atheist, then your fucked.

Safer Bet for what? I believe in GOD but I don't subscribe to the Christian view so by Safer Bet, what does that mean?

 

[Leeeeeee]

See, it's typical for extremists like atheists and religious fundamentalists to resort to superlative arguments like yours.

1) I'm not comparing scientific "beliefs" with religious beliefs. So you can burn that straw man premise for starters.

2) No it doesn't always stay "deaded". It's pretty obvious that science is dynamic and our knowledge of our world continues to evolve.

Are you familiar with the the scientific theory of Phlogiston? If not, look it up.

How about, arguably the greatest scientific protagonist of all time, Isaac Newton's Corpuscular Theory of Light? Why do you think it took precedence over Christiaan Huygens' Wave Front Theory of Light which provided a more accurate description and prediction of the interaction of light with matter? And then later in the 20th century, Feynman's Quantum Electrodynamics.

And these are just a few examples.

Of course there's loads physical evidence supporting a non-flat earth, satellite pictures being the most compelling, but still it's just a bunch of physical evidence which does not constitute a complete and absolute description of reality. But let's keep the convo shallow for now.

There are many rational beliefs that can not be scientifically verified or "proven". Aesthetic judgments for example.

Science is permeated with "unprovable" assumptions. For example, Einstein's Special Theory of Relativity hinges on the assumption that the speed of light is constant in a one-way direction between any two points A and B. This BELIEF can't be scientifically "proven" yet this theory is one of the gems of contemporary physics.

Think about these things and give it a sec to marinate ...

Are you Christian?

 

[Blunt]

And this is your conclusion from the stuff I posted?

Mr. Blunt, you are truly and unfailingly the idiot I've always thought you to be. Imbecile.

What's so hard to grasp?? If you believe in "God" (and/or creationism, Jesus, and any other supposed supernatural savior) then you are diametrically AT ODDS with all of those things I listed. How can you believe in logic and reason on the one hand, and then place your faith in the ABSURD?

 

[J Storm]

Find one.

It did exist - It's extinct now
Archaeopteryx

How about these "Weird Hybrids"

Flying Fish (Sea and Air but no Land Travel? WTF)

Whales (Do you believe these are Fish or does Science make you believe otherwise?)

Platypus (Is it an Otter or a Duck?)

Okapi (When could Zebras have sex with Giraffes?)

 

[sean69]

Are you Christian?

No i'm not. But what really matters is what you do, not what you are.

 

[DoingDamage]

 

[sean69]

What's so hard to grasp?? If you believe in "God" (and/or creationism, Jesus, and any other supposed supernatural savior) then you are diametrically AT ODDS with all of those things I listed. How can you believe in logic and reason on the one hand, and then place your faith in the ABSURD?

When did I say I was a creationist?

When did I say I believed in a supernatural savior??

Do you believe in Quantum Mechanics???

Are you really this stupid or you just insist on being a gimmick poster????

 

[chillwillwonka]

Atheist merely assume there is no God like you assume there is one.

This thread got shut down at the beginning of the 1st page. Surprisingly it's still going. Great post and co-sign.

 

[CPT Callamity]

I consider myself an agnostic and take all the hits when it comes to that.

Belief that there is a God has not bearing on my life.
Belief that there is not a God, also doesn't have much bearing on my life.

If "GOD" in the personified since of the word exists, then it is up to him to reveal, speak to and allow me to acknowledge whom he is without transmitting live through a minister or dead book.

If no GOD exists, yet everything around us is a culmination of forces, energies, chemical reactions and the like, then GOD is in turn nature. I won't give nature man-like characteristics just to satisfy the human brain's need to organize things logically and be understood. It just is.

Either way...no specific bearing on my life.