"I ain't readin' that shit"
NOTE: Colin Powell is not amused with your attempt to replace him.
Humans not so special-- other animals with consciences?
- Thread starter Costanza
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NOTE: Colin Powell is not amused with your attempt to replace him.
Good points. Reminds me of a great thread from a year ago...
[FLASH]http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/xQERRbU23bU&eurl[/FLASH]
Man, you don't know shit about what else exists in the universe, so don't even go there...
Just like Dr. Neil DeGrasse Tyson said in the video maybe we haven't been visited by extraterrestrials because they wouldn't want to waste their time talking to such idiots. I think that could definitely be true...I sure don't waste my time trying to talk to ants or roaches.
read my rebuttal to bigirl
Additionally, I find dolphins incredibly interesting. Dolphins are incredibly intelligent creatures, what mystifies researchers is that they don't fully understand what exactly dolphins do with their intelligence.
And this further adds credence to the idea that humans have a bias against measuring an animals level of intelligence because we're the ones administering the test.
this has to be one of my favorite stories
Dolphin saves the lives of two Whales
Martyn Mclaughlin said:
http://news.scotsman.com/world/Dolphin-answers-whales39-SOS-call.3872748.jp
I disagreed and agreed with some of the points he makes, Michio Kaku brought up the same scenario Dr. Neil Degrasse Tyson brought up concerning whether or not would you take the time to talk to and explain what a highway is to an Ant on the side of the road.
thoth said:
Perhaps we are not on the same wavelength haha
Are You sure about that?
You know anything about The Unified Field Theory,Quantum Mechanics,String Theory....
Do you know anything about The Mystery Systems out of Kemite Or "The Principle of Correspondence"...and I don't mean have you heard about those things But do you KNOW about them!!
Another Fucked up Human tendency....To think cause you don't know shit....then Nobody else could possibly know it either....
Newsflash...The Earth.... And Humans did not just get here in the 20th or 21st Century......and more and more it starts to look as though folks in Ancient Times knew a lot more about shit than people give them credit for....
How did The Dogon know about a dwarf Star that revolved around The Star Sirius...That could not be seen by the most powerful telescopes in the Western world until the mid 70's...cause the shit is a mystery to you don't mean somebody don't know...
So I will Mos Def GO THERE as Much and as far as I can.....You should be trying to do the same....
So you don't know what I know.....So your intelligence should make your Free will refrain from those kind of remarks..
I said it once and will say it again....Man is The Highest Creation In The Universe......Now You prove Me Wrong!!
But hoow can he prove you wrong when we "the highest creation in the universe" do not even fully understand the universe?
Bingo....He can Not!!
But it is not necessary to understand every little thing....
What is important...is to "Realize"...some Key Truths...Not in theory ...But to realize....
K
kwazdog
Guest
I aint reading all that shit, but I will say this. My dog has shown me various moods ant temperaments. He's just as complex as your average fucked up human being. he is a rescued dog (im not his original owner, he just showed up at my door oneday) , so he has issues.
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probably our advanced language facilities and opposable thumbs. we're basically built to create knowledge, engineering, etc.
but theres no huge difference between us and our closest primate cousins, and we share a common heritage with other animals.
its only our hubris and disregard for the obvious that makes us think animals don't have feelings when they clearly do such as mothers caring for their young, mourning behavior when they experience death, etc.
Okay, the other thread is up.
I quoted you in that thread and I'll paste that specific part right here since this is where it originated:
We, as "normal humans," have such a sense of superiority. Most look down on other animals and express this sort of belief:
We see a cat running in circles chasing its tail and see it as a stupid cat, subject to the dictates of natural hardwiring and so unlike us. But next time you're huddled next to your laptop pulling one of these moves
you might stop and ask yourself how advanced you really are.
There's more to it than that excerpt, you can check the other thread for that... but that's pretty much my rebuttal to your "natural hardwiring dictates" argument.
Most animals and insects have very highly developed communication Skills....look at Whales and dolphins...look at a heard of antelope or geese flying thousands of miles....to say nothing of ants and how they communicate to get shit built...I don't say it's a concious thing but the communication is there and on many levels way more sophisticated than humans.....
Yea we got thumbs....but various creatures got physical attributes that we can only marvel at...
I just think if people are looking at physical attributes that trump humans over animals ...they are looking in the wrong direction...btw primates got thumbs too.
The fact that you made this arrogant statement is enough to discredit your entire argument because you are no longer able to view the universe objectively.
OK thats correct. What I should have said is our VOCAL CHORDS allow us to engage in extremely advanced forms of communication other animals cannot. And our tool usage is obviously just exponentially greater than any other animal.
We're basically built to do things other animals just can't do. Whether thye are as "intelligent" or not is a moot point - dolphins could have a 500 IQ but they still wouldn't be able to build an automobile or compose a symphony.
By who's standards....The standards of Western Academia...Bullshit!!
Even a scientist as revered as Einstein acknowleged that the Very act of observing a thing especially outside of it's natural enviroment....changes the way a thing behaves.....Objectivity in the mode of observation...scientific or rationalistic is a very heavily flawed concept in The Western Model which is what you are so obviously using.Because you have to factor in the bias of the observer as well.
The Only true way to come to understand the nature of a thing is to be both the observer and the observed.....which is exactly the ability that other creatures do not have the capacity to do....
And at their present state a lot of Humans are unable to also.....
Thus the need to type in BOLD print shit as though that will change the inherent weakness in it....when in reality it's wack however you choose to frame it
Ok, ill check out the reply to bigirl. But the bolded portion is exactly the response i was getting at. The fact of the matter is that we are limited in our understanding and interpretation of how most animal life communicate, think, operate and their level of self awareness.
And for those who will attribute nature or instinct to the majority of the actions of animals & insects, then how can you eliminate that same nature/instinct as the reasoning behind our insatiable need to explore, discover and create?
The primary thing I am saying is to understand why I proclaim what I do ....is outside of the realms of Biology or even psychology.. And I expected all the little college educated psuedo intellects to come at me with their Logic 101 arguments....well this shit ain't 1 plus 1.......
So I guess will go around and around wit this shit till mofo's get tired.....But I said what I did because I KNOW it....Period!!
Big Earl shut up seriously
Anyway ants have a high conscience than any other species on this planet. Check this vid I posted a while back
[Flash]http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/C-5ifOUkxto[/flash]
Awesome find both for its sheer beauty and irony in regards to the topic at hand.
Which species built this incredible structure and which species destroyed it for the sake of "learning" form it?
/thread.
Okay, the other thread is up.
I quoted you in that thread and I'll paste that specific part right here since this is where it originated:
We, as "normal humans," have such a sense of superiority. Most look down on other animals and express this sort of belief:
We see a cat running in circles chasing its tail and see it as a stupid cat, subject to the dictates of natural hardwiring and so unlike us. But next time you're huddled next to your laptop pulling one of these moves
Well the most obvious flaw is you saying the next time you are at your laptop during the same thing...stop and think....
The cat ain't gon stop and think....he'll get tired or get distracted by something else.....No meditating why he was running in circles...thought you'd come better than that..
But notice the species in question and their skin pigment, and the infatuation with destroying great works not of their own volition will become clear
But notice the species in question and their skin pigment, and the infatuation with destroying great works not of their own volition will become clear
/close thread. 100% c/s
Big Earl shut up seriously
Anyway ants have a high conscience than any other species on this planet. Check this vid I posted a while back
[Flash]http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/C-5ifOUkxto[/flash]
That shit is no doubt awesome...and beautiful...But it does not rule out the pov that these creatures are doing what nature intended for them to do without thought without ego.....
That is why I said Humans are both The Highest and the lowest....
Look at the Pyramids in Egypt or South america....look at the cultures that evolved from Humans....Then look at a fucked up hood where peeps is destroying each other....not to eat or prosper....but for dumbshit
They need their energies redirected...ants and shit don't fall into that kind of self destructive bullshit!!
Then they are more advanced than us correct?
I thought this thread was about what makes humans special compared to other animals? Not who is more advanced.
If Ants were truly more advanced than us why would they go to war with other colonies? That sounds like something we do, and do it very well I might add. By our meager understanding of the word warfare doesn't seem like a typical trait a species would harbor that is truly advanced.
technological advancement....spiritual advancement......etc
Now you have to consider what does advanced truly mean.
I tried to answer him but it was really some of the assertive cases of ignorance ever. Reminds me of the neocons. No offense to dude.
That would be assuming that higher intelligence means need for more technology or civilization though.
These are western values, mind numbingly intelligent geniuses were around the world running naked in the jungle, arctic and the desert, eating playing and living free, does no symphony that make them less intelligent?
You typed a lot but didn't say anything - advanced indeed are you
Advanced. Special. I think they're both synonyms for purposes of this discussion. We can debate the definition of both terms or we can continue to discuss the merits of our opinions based on the commonly accepted defitions of the terms. I would prefer to debate the opinion/topic rather than waste time being distracted by a argument of semantics.
As for war, i dont think being advanced will completely eliminate the need of war. It can be argued that war is a means of advancing societies when interest of opposing sides clash. In the case of ants, wars almost always result in the survival of the colonies. Self preservation and advancement of the pecies 101. And make no mistake, there are some ant species who simply do not fight at all.
Inherently NO !!
Because they are not fettered by the same mental and spiritual problems....They do not have to deal with such complexities as free will.Their relationship with the whole of nature is the rhythm to which they move.
And secondly man when in his creative (as opposed to destructive) mode can and has created things even more astounding !!
But if meditated on these creatures as well as the celestial bodies along with all of nature can remind man what he is capable of if he is able to control the negative aspects of his nature....and develope his higher potentials...
I tried to answer him but it was really some of the assertive cases of ignorance ever. Reminds me of the neocons. No offense to dude.
That would be assuming that higher intelligence means need for more technology or civilization though.
These are western values, mind numbingly intelligent geniuses were around the world running naked in the jungle, arctic and the desert, eating playing and living free, does no symphony that make them less intelligent?
You typed a lot but didn't say anything - advanced indeed are you
Well I cannot be held responsible for your deafness and blindness....Dude!!
Guess that little time you spent in community college did not do you much good after all....
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But how do you know that they arent "fettered by mental and spiritual problems"? Again, our understanding is limited and it is subject o our interpretations of their actions and modes of operation. Also, it can be argued that the species which allows themselves to be "fettered" by what we call spiritual problems is further proof of our not so special ways.
Which species is more special/advanced, the one who operates with the focus and purpose of creation and sustaining and advancing life or the one easily distracted and prone to waste copious amounts of time praying to and worshipping invisible beings and trinkets??
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