Humans not so special-- other animals with consciences?

"I ain't readin' that shit"

michael_vick_dog.jpg

:lol::lol::lol:​

NOTE: Colin Powell is not amused with your attempt to replace him.

:hmm::hmm:

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I dont know about all that. Have you seen some of the comple building, tunnelling, structure and architecture that goes on in underground ant colonies? Ever see dolphin communicate? How about the inner workings of a huge bee hive?
Good points. Reminds me of a great thread from a year ago...

[FLASH]http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/xQERRbU23bU&eurl[/FLASH]
 
Man, you don't know shit about what else exists in the universe, so don't even go there...

Just like Dr. Neil DeGrasse Tyson said in the video maybe we haven't been visited by extraterrestrials because they wouldn't want to waste their time talking to such idiots. I think that could definitely be true...I sure don't waste my time trying to talk to ants or roaches.
 
I dont know about all that. Have you seen some of the comple building, tunnelling, structure and architecture that goes on in underground ant colonies? Ever see dolphin communicate? How about the inner workings of a huge bee hive?

read my rebuttal to bigirl


Additionally, I find dolphins incredibly interesting. Dolphins are incredibly intelligent creatures, what mystifies researchers is that they don't fully understand what exactly dolphins do with their intelligence.

And this further adds credence to the idea that humans have a bias against measuring an animals level of intelligence because we're the ones administering the test.

this has to be one of my favorite stories




Dolphin saves the lives of two Whales

Martyn Mclaughlin said:
THEY famously attempted to warn mankind of the Earth's impending destruction in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, only for their behaviour to be dismissed as playful acrobatics.


But now, solid evidence has emerged of the dolphin's altruistic nature. In a act of selflessness which has astounded experts and confirmed the friendly nature of the species, a bottlenose came to the rescue of two whales stranded on a beach in New Zealand.

The dolphin – nicknamed Moko by local residents, who said it spent much of its time swimming playfully with beachgoers – helped two pygmy sperm whales, facing imminent death after becoming stranded on a sandbar, swim to safety.

Until Moko's arrival, rescuers feared the mother and calf would have to be put down to prevent them suffering a prolonged death on Mahia beach, about 300 miles north-east of Wellington.

Malcolm Smith and his team from the New Zealand Conservation Department had tried in vain to rescue the animals for an hour-and-a-half. With their effort faltering, it seemed only a matter of time before the operation was called off.

"They kept getting disoriented and stranding again," Mr Smith said yesterday. "They couldn't find their way back past (the sandbar] to the sea."

Just as it seemed all hope was lost, Moko appeared. The dolphin approached the whales, leading them 200m along the beach before navigating them out to the open sea.



http://news.scotsman.com/world/Dolphin-answers-whales39-SOS-call.3872748.jp
 
Just like Dr. Neil DeGrasse Tyson said in the video maybe we haven't been visited by extraterrestrials because they wouldn't want to waste their time talking to such idiots. I think that could definitely be true...I sure don't waste my time trying to talk to ants or roaches.

I disagreed and agreed with some of the points he makes, Michio Kaku brought up the same scenario Dr. Neil Degrasse Tyson brought up concerning whether or not would you take the time to talk to and explain what a highway is to an Ant on the side of the road.


thoth said:
I meant what I said....and will go further to say MAN is The Highest Creation in The Universe....whether you like it or not!!

Perhaps we are not on the same wavelength haha
 
Man, you don't know shit about what else exists in the universe, so don't even go there...

Are You sure about that?
You know anything about The Unified Field Theory,Quantum Mechanics,String Theory....
Do you know anything about The Mystery Systems out of Kemite Or "The Principle of Correspondence"...and I don't mean have you heard about those things But do you KNOW about them!!

Another Fucked up Human tendency....To think cause you don't know shit....then Nobody else could possibly know it either....

Newsflash...The Earth.... And Humans did not just get here in the 20th or 21st Century......and more and more it starts to look as though folks in Ancient Times knew a lot more about shit than people give them credit for....

How did The Dogon know about a dwarf Star that revolved around The Star Sirius...That could not be seen by the most powerful telescopes in the Western world until the mid 70's...cause the shit is a mystery to you don't mean somebody don't know...

So I will Mos Def GO THERE as Much and as far as I can.....You should be trying to do the same....

So you don't know what I know.....So your intelligence should make your Free will refrain from those kind of remarks..

I said it once and will say it again....Man is The Highest Creation In The Universe......Now You prove Me Wrong!!
 
But hoow can he prove you wrong when we "the highest creation in the universe" do not even fully understand the universe?

Bingo....He can Not!!
But it is not necessary to understand every little thing....
What is important...is to "Realize"...some Key Truths...Not in theory ...But to realize....
 
I aint reading all that shit, but I will say this. My dog has shown me various moods ant temperaments. He's just as complex as your average fucked up human being. he is a rescued dog (im not his original owner, he just showed up at my door oneday) , so he has issues.
 
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So... What separates us? Are humans all that special???

probably our advanced language facilities and opposable thumbs. we're basically built to create knowledge, engineering, etc.

but theres no huge difference between us and our closest primate cousins, and we share a common heritage with other animals.

its only our hubris and disregard for the obvious that makes us think animals don't have feelings when they clearly do such as mothers caring for their young, mourning behavior when they experience death, etc.
 
Truth.....
When animals ...insects...etc. can create CONCIOUS works of art..and concious works of destruction...not like Beehives and such....Their unconcious adherence to nature allows them to accomplish those amazing and beautiful things...Then it may give these folks who want all these creatures to be on the same level some creedence....That's bullshit!!

Man is both the most high and the most base of creation...because he can consiously decide to do or not to do a thing on a consistent basis...Freewill!!

These other animals move because their natural hardwiring dictates....that's why when you put them in a enviroment opposed to their natural one...no telling what you will see fro them

I gotta get this other thread up today, part of it will address what is said here.

Okay, the other thread is up.

I quoted you in that thread and I'll paste that specific part right here since this is where it originated:


We, as "normal humans," have such a sense of superiority. Most look down on other animals and express this sort of belief:
Man is both the most high and the most base of creation...because he can consiously decide to do or not to do a thing on a consistent basis...Freewill!!

These other animals move because their natural hardwiring dictates....that's why when you put them in a enviroment opposed to their natural one...no telling what you will see fro them

We see a cat running in circles chasing its tail and see it as a stupid cat, subject to the dictates of natural hardwiring and so unlike us. But next time you're huddled next to your laptop pulling one of these moves :jackoff: you might stop and ask yourself how advanced you really are.

:D There's more to it than that excerpt, you can check the other thread for that... but that's pretty much my rebuttal to your "natural hardwiring dictates" argument.
 
probably our advanced language facilities and opposable thumbs. we're basically built to create knowledge, engineering, etc.

but theres no huge difference between us and our closest primate cousins, and we share a common heritage with other animals.

its only our hubris and disregard for the obvious that makes us think animals don't have feelings when they clearly do such as mothers caring for their young, mourning behavior when they experience death, etc.

Most animals and insects have very highly developed communication Skills....look at Whales and dolphins...look at a heard of antelope or geese flying thousands of miles....to say nothing of ants and how they communicate to get shit built...I don't say it's a concious thing but the communication is there and on many levels way more sophisticated than humans.....
Yea we got thumbs....but various creatures got physical attributes that we can only marvel at...

I just think if people are looking at physical attributes that trump humans over animals ...they are looking in the wrong direction...btw primates got thumbs too.
 
Most animals and insects have very highly developed communication Skills....look at Whales and dolphins...look at a heard of antelope or geese flying thousands of miles....to say nothing of ants and how they communicate to get shit built...I don't say it's a concious thing but the communication is there and on many levels way more sophisticated than humans.....
Yea we got thumbs....but various creatures got physical attributes that we can only marvel at...

I just think if people are looking at physical attributes that trump humans over animals ...they are looking in the wrong direction...btw primates got thumbs too.

OK thats correct. What I should have said is our VOCAL CHORDS allow us to engage in extremely advanced forms of communication other animals cannot. And our tool usage is obviously just exponentially greater than any other animal.

We're basically built to do things other animals just can't do. Whether thye are as "intelligent" or not is a moot point - dolphins could have a 500 IQ but they still wouldn't be able to build an automobile or compose a symphony.
 
The fact that you made this arrogant statement is enough to discredit your entire argument because you are no longer able to view the universe objectively.

By who's standards....The standards of Western Academia...Bullshit!!

Even a scientist as revered as Einstein acknowleged that the Very act of observing a thing especially outside of it's natural enviroment....changes the way a thing behaves.....Objectivity in the mode of observation...scientific or rationalistic is a very heavily flawed concept in The Western Model which is what you are so obviously using.Because you have to factor in the bias of the observer as well.

The Only true way to come to understand the nature of a thing is to be both the observer and the observed.....which is exactly the ability that other creatures do not have the capacity to do....
And at their present state a lot of Humans are unable to also.....

Thus the need to type in BOLD print shit as though that will change the inherent weakness in it....when in reality it's wack however you choose to frame it
 
read my rebuttal to bigirl


Additionally, I find dolphins incredibly interesting. Dolphins are incredibly intelligent creatures, what mystifies researchers is that they don't fully understand what exactly dolphins do with their intelligence.

And this further adds credence to the idea that humans have a bias against measuring an animals level of intelligence because we're the ones administering the test.this has to be one of my favorite stories
Ok, ill check out the reply to bigirl. But the bolded portion is exactly the response i was getting at. The fact of the matter is that we are limited in our understanding and interpretation of how most animal life communicate, think, operate and their level of self awareness.

And for those who will attribute nature or instinct to the majority of the actions of animals & insects, then how can you eliminate that same nature/instinct as the reasoning behind our insatiable need to explore, discover and create?
 
OK thats correct. What I should have said is our VOCAL CHORDS allow us to engage in extremely advanced forms of communication other animals cannot. And our tool usage is obviously just exponentially greater than any other animal.

We're basically built to do things other animals just can't do. Whether thye are as "intelligent" or not is a moot point - dolphins could have a 500 IQ but they still wouldn't be able to build an automobile or compose a symphony.

The primary thing I am saying is to understand why I proclaim what I do ....is outside of the realms of Biology or even psychology.. And I expected all the little college educated psuedo intellects to come at me with their Logic 101 arguments....well this shit ain't 1 plus 1.......
So I guess will go around and around wit this shit till mofo's get tired.....But I said what I did because I KNOW it....Period!!
 
dogs can create too my old dog used to collect rocks and build things and I watched 2 of my dogs run around and collect things to make beds for the younger dogs

Big Earl shut up seriously :hmm: :lol:




Anyway ants have a high conscience than any other species on this planet. Check this vid I posted a while back







[Flash]http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/C-5ifOUkxto[/flash]
 
Anyway ants have a high conscience than any other species on this planet. Check this vid I posted a while back
[Flash]http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/C-5ifOUkxto[/flash]
Awesome find both for its sheer beauty and irony in regards to the topic at hand.


Which species built this incredible structure and which species destroyed it for the sake of "learning" form it?

/thread.
 
Okay, the other thread is up.

I quoted you in that thread and I'll paste that specific part right here since this is where it originated:


We, as "normal humans," have such a sense of superiority. Most look down on other animals and express this sort of belief:


We see a cat running in circles chasing its tail and see it as a stupid cat, subject to the dictates of natural hardwiring and so unlike us. But next time you're huddled next to your laptop pulling one of these moves :jackoff: you might stop and ask yourself how advanced you really are.

:D There's more to it than that excerpt, you can check the other thread for that... but that's pretty much my rebuttal to your "natural hardwiring dictates" argument.

Well the most obvious flaw is you saying the next time you are at your laptop during the same thing...stop and think....

The cat ain't gon stop and think....he'll get tired or get distracted by something else.....No meditating why he was running in circles...thought you'd come better than that..
 
Awesome find both for its sheer beauty and irony in regards to the topic at hand.


Which species built this incredible structure and which species destroyed it for the sake of "learning" form it?

/thread.


But notice the species in question and their skin pigment, and the infatuation with destroying great works not of their own volition will become clear ;)
 
Awesome find both for its sheer beauty and irony in regards to the topic at hand.


Which species built this incredible structure and which species destroyed it for the sake of "learning" form it?

/thread.

But notice the species in question and their skin pigment, and the infatuation with destroying great works not of their own volition will become clear ;)


/close thread. 100% c/s
 
Big Earl shut up seriously :hmm: :lol:




Anyway ants have a high conscience than any other species on this planet. Check this vid I posted a while back







[Flash]http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/C-5ifOUkxto[/flash]

That shit is no doubt awesome...and beautiful...But it does not rule out the pov that these creatures are doing what nature intended for them to do without thought without ego.....
That is why I said Humans are both The Highest and the lowest....
Look at the Pyramids in Egypt or South america....look at the cultures that evolved from Humans....Then look at a fucked up hood where peeps is destroying each other....not to eat or prosper....but for dumbshit

They need their energies redirected...ants and shit don't fall into that kind of self destructive bullshit!!
 
That shit is no doubt awesome...and beautiful...But it does not rule out the pov that these creatures are doing what nature intended for them to do without thought without ego.....
That is why I said Humans are both The Highest and the lowest....
Look at the Pyramids in Egypt or South america....look at the cultures that evolved from Humans....Then look at a fucked up hood where peeps is destroying each other....not to eat or prosper....but for dumbshit

They need their energies redirected...ants and shit don't fall into that kind of self destructive bullshit!!
Then they are more advanced than us correct?
 
Then they are more advanced than us correct?

I thought this thread was about what makes humans special compared to other animals? Not who is more advanced.


If Ants were truly more advanced than us why would they go to war with other colonies? That sounds like something we do, and do it very well I might add. By our meager understanding of the word warfare doesn't seem like a typical trait a species would harbor that is truly advanced.


technological advancement....spiritual advancement......etc


Now you have to consider what does advanced truly mean.
 
The fact that you made this arrogant statement is enough to discredit your entire argument because you are no longer able to view the universe objectively.

I tried to answer him but it was really some of the assertive cases of ignorance ever. Reminds me of the neocons. No offense to
dude.

dolphins could have a 500 IQ but they still wouldn't be able to build an automobile or compose a symphony.

That would be assuming that higher intelligence means need for more technology or civilization though.

These are western values, mind numbingly intelligent geniuses were around the world running naked in the jungle, arctic and the desert, eating playing and living free, does no symphony that make them less intelligent?


I did watch the video firstly...I guess I was suppose to react in the same manner as yourself....well I did not...so Sue me!!

Secondly you evidently are not an artist or understand what True Art entails...otherwise in no way could you have stated that it did not involve intelligence...and I ain't talkin about Primates paintin some shit on the fuckin wall.

And you have no concept to how freewill relates to intelligence?
Dam dude your brain must be dripping out your ears...

My intelligence and freewill tell me you do not have a clue....and that it is probably pointless to even try to break this shit down to you....so I leave you in your deluded stupor...

I sense one more thing....that you are probably a atheist...that becomes angry at the very notion of a higher intelligence....
And I am aware that Humans are biologically animals....No disagreement there......

Having said all that If you don't agree with me....That his Your CHOICE....Your FREEWILL....believe what you will or not...I don't give a Fuck...

The exchange of knowledge and information is what interest me....So why don't you do us both of us a favor and direct your PETA tinged rage in another direction...
I meant what I said....and will go further to say MAN is The Highest Creation in The Universe....whether you like it or not!!

You typed a lot but didn't say anything - advanced indeed are you :rolleyes:
 
I thought this thread was about what makes humans special compared to other animals? Not who is more advanced.


If Ants were truly more advanced than us why would they go to war with other colonies? That sounds like something we do, and do it very well I might add. By our meager understanding of the word warfare doesn't seem like a typical trait a species would harbor that is truly advanced.


technological advancement....spiritual advancement......etc


Now you have to consider what does advanced truly mean.
Advanced. Special. I think they're both synonyms for purposes of this discussion. We can debate the definition of both terms or we can continue to discuss the merits of our opinions based on the commonly accepted defitions of the terms. I would prefer to debate the opinion/topic rather than waste time being distracted by a argument of semantics.

As for war, i dont think being advanced will completely eliminate the need of war. It can be argued that war is a means of advancing societies when interest of opposing sides clash. In the case of ants, wars almost always result in the survival of the colonies. Self preservation and advancement of the pecies 101. And make no mistake, there are some ant species who simply do not fight at all.
 
Then they are more advanced than us correct?

Inherently NO !!
Because they are not fettered by the same mental and spiritual problems....They do not have to deal with such complexities as free will.Their relationship with the whole of nature is the rhythm to which they move.

And secondly man when in his creative (as opposed to destructive) mode can and has created things even more astounding !!

But if meditated on these creatures as well as the celestial bodies along with all of nature can remind man what he is capable of if he is able to control the negative aspects of his nature....and develope his higher potentials...
 

I tried to answer him but it was really some of the assertive cases of ignorance ever. Reminds me of the neocons. No offense to
dude.



That would be assuming that higher intelligence means need for more technology or civilization though.

These are western values, mind numbingly intelligent geniuses were around the world running naked in the jungle, arctic and the desert, eating playing and living free, does no symphony that make them less intelligent?




You typed a lot but didn't say anything - advanced indeed are you :rolleyes:

Well I cannot be held responsible for your deafness and blindness....Dude!!
Guess that little time you spent in community college did not do you much good after all....
 
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Inherently NO !!
Because they are not fettered by the same mental and spiritual problems....They do not have to deal with such complexities as free will.Their relationship with the whole of nature is the rhythm to which they move.

And secondly man when in his creative (as opposed to destructive) mode can and has created things even more astounding !!

But if meditated on these creatures as well as the celestial bodies along with all of nature can remind man what he is capable of if he is able to control the negative aspects of his nature....and develope his higher potentials...

But how do you know that they arent "fettered by mental and spiritual problems"? Again, our understanding is limited and it is subject o our interpretations of their actions and modes of operation. Also, it can be argued that the species which allows themselves to be "fettered" by what we call spiritual problems is further proof of our not so special ways.

Which species is more special/advanced, the one who operates with the focus and purpose of creation and sustaining and advancing life or the one easily distracted and prone to waste copious amounts of time praying to and worshipping invisible beings and trinkets??
 
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