Houston Astros caught cheating in 2017: Manager and GM......FIRED! Dusty Baker HIRED!

shaddyvillethug

Youngest in charge
BGOL Investor
Man at the plate still has to be able to do something with that info. Again I'm not saying that didn't give them an advantage but I'm not go say they whole world series is based off of that. That was 1 of the most hitting lineups top to bottom I've seen recently
These are professionals breh

I’m not understanding what u are exactly saying

The man at the plate has every advantage thrown to him


U thought he was gonna strike out? :lol:

And the reason u seen them as a great lineup is because they had every advantage. Top to bottom they cheated. OF COURSE they gonna look good.
 

knightmelodic

The Big Cat
BGOL Investor
I always say if muthafuckas didn't think doing certain things would give them an advantage they wouldn't do them. As to what you say about it not being a big deal depends on the hitter and pitcher. Of course pitch placement matters either way but if you can sit on a fastball and not worry about a changeup, curveball or slider that is a HUGE advantage. Plus, if you know the specific pitch it can be easier to lay off location outside the zone. No question it was an advantage and the numbers support that.

This man gets it. Not sure what the other guy is talking about. Maybe video game baseball but in the real world if you can lay off breaking balls (that most of the time aren't in the strike zone) then you have a TREMENDOUS advantage. Inside, outside, high low, batters can tell where it's going by the release point and spin if they know it's cheese. That's the whole point of pitching - deception, making a breaking pitch look like a #1. If you know that ball that looks like it's headed towards the outside and down is actually going there and not going to break and drop away, man you are so far ahead of the pitcher it ain't funny.

BTW players who say they don't want to know what's coming are full of shit. Hitting a pitched baseball is hard. The only reason they wouldn't want to know is they don't trust the information.
 

jack walsh13

Jack Walsh 13
BGOL Investor
This man gets it. Not sure what the other guy is talking about. Maybe video game baseball but in the real world if you can lay off breaking balls (that most of the time aren't in the strike zone) then you have a TREMENDOUS advantage. Inside, outside, high low, batters can tell where it's going by the release point and spin if they know it's cheese. That's the whole point of pitching - deception, making a breaking pitch look like a #1. If you know that ball that looks like it's headed towards the outside and down is actually going there and not going to break and drop away, man you are so far ahead of the pitcher it ain't funny.

BTW players who say they don't want to know what's coming are full of shit. Hitting a pitched baseball is hard. The only reason they wouldn't want to know is they don't trust the information.
Exactly. Hitting a baseball is the hardest thing to do in sports. And I don't mean get a hit. I mean just to make contact with the fuckin thing. The mafia style cheating they did gave them a tremendous advantage

 

playahaitian

Rising Star
Certified Pussy Poster
The only penalty for cheating to win games is to fire the coach/s??

We live in a matrix
Boom.

I keep hearing they afraid of the playets union amd its logistically impossible

Funny thats what they said about integration and steroids.

Its just to DIFFICULT to impliment.
 

playahaitian

Rising Star
Certified Pussy Poster
Exactly. Hitting a baseball is the hardest thing to do in sports. And I don't mean get a hit. I mean just to make contact with the fuckin thing. The mafia style cheating they did gave them a tremendous advantage

Facts.

 

playahaitian

Rising Star
Certified Pussy Poster
Phillies’ Larry Bowa says Houston Astros hitters should be drilled for cheating

CLEARWATER, Fla. — These are dark days for Major League Baseball. Attendance and TV ratings already had been dipping in recent years, and now the game is dealing with cheating scandals involving the Houston Astros and the yet-to-be punished Boston Red Sox, the teams that won the 2017 and 2018 World Series.
Shame and dishonor unfortunately are almost as familiar to baseball as balls and strikes. Two of the most notable stains in the game’s history were the 1919 Chicago White Sox World Series fix and the PED-fueled numbers that have kept Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, Roger Clemens, and others out of the Hall of Fame.

The worst smudge on baseball history, however, came in 1994, when the billionaire owners and millionaire players could not settle a labor dispute and fans were left without a World Series for the first time since 1904.
Salt was rubbed into that wound 25 years ago, when the owners attempted the weakest of strong-arms by staging a faux spring training with replacement players in an attempt to get the real ones to end what was then the longest strike in sports history.

Phillies great Larry Bowa, who is 74 and in a spring-training camp for the 50th time in his career, agrees that the cancellation of the World Series and the subsequent replacement-player spring were the worst time in his long career, but he is also plenty steamed by baseball’s modern-day scandal.

“I don’t think it can be any worse than [canceling the World Series], but this is close,” Bowa said. “What the Astros did is bad. It’s really … bad.”

So bad that he thinks something should still be done about it.

“It’s just hard for me to believe that they used a trash can and they did it for that long and nobody did anything about it,” Bowa said. “I’m talking about the teams they were playing. I know for a fact that if that happened when I was playing and Steve Carlton had been pitching, he’d have drilled somebody if they kept hitting that can.

“Why wouldn’t you do anything about it? I’m not saying hit them in the head. I don’t want anybody to get killed, but hit somebody in the ribs and say, ‘If you want to keep doing it, we’re going to keep drilling you.’ That will stop it. Believe me, guys don’t want to get hit. But nobody did anything."


Bowa said somebody should this season.

“I’ll be shocked if some pitchers do not drill some of these guys this year,” he said. “If that doesn’t happen, this game has really changed. I know it has changed, but somebody has got to take some hits. Hit them in the ribs, hit them in the leg, whatever you have to do, but let them know you’re ticked off about what happened.

"What are they going to do? They can’t do a f---- thing. They should be embarrassed by it all. They need to come out and say, ‘You know what, we made a big-time mistake.' The way they are handling it is brutal.”

Bowa is also appalled that the Astros denied using buzzer alerts inside their uniforms, a part of the scandal that appeared to be revealed by video of second baseman Jose Altuve’s game-winning home run against the Yankees’ Aroldis Chapman in Game 6 of the 2019 ALCS at Houston’s Minute Maid Park.

“If that was me, I’d let them rip every piece of my clothing off,” Bowa said. “They could strip me naked. He went down underneath into the clubhouse, he changed his shirt, and it was so f---- obvious what was going on. They’ve turned their back on that part of it, and they keep saying there was no buzzer. There was a buzzer.”


Some have defended the Astros by saying that sign-stealing has been part of baseball forever. That argument also chaps Bowa’s old-school mentality.

“If you’re at second and you break down the catcher’s code, that’s fair game,” he said. “You’re coaching third and the catcher is exposing signs, that’s on him. But this stuff that they did is wrong. They need to get all the video equipment turned off during the game.”

Bowa, the Phillies’ third-base coach in the 1990s, said he doesn’t think much about the dark days of the mid-'90s strike any more unless he is asked about it. His most vivid memory of that spring training is how angry the late Jim Fregosi was about having to manage replacement players.
“He told [the coaches], ‘I’m not managing. You guys go out and hit fungos,’ ” Bowa said. “I remember me and Vuk [John Vukovich] telling him, ‘We’re not hitting any f---- fungos.’ We ended up doing it, but Jimmy didn’t manage them at all.”
Though not amused at the time, Bowa said that some comical things did unfold during the six weeks with the replacements. Fregosi did not manage the Phil-Ins, but he did order 6-foot-5 lefty Mike Linskey to get his pet ferrets, Raz and Berry, out of the Jack Russell Stadium clubhouse.

“The fact that we went through that BS and had to follow the script and everything, it was embarrassing more than anything,” Bowa said. “I can forgive the guys who in their minds knew they’d never play in the big leagues for doing it, but those guys who already had a taste of the big leagues, I’m still not happy about that.”

At the moment, though, Bowa’s anger is more focused on the Houston Astros, and he believes their World Series title will be tarnished forever.

I agree with Bowa. Astros bout ta get fucked up at the plate this year. They gonna be involved in a lot of fights.




I disagree with this one

Cause a suspension or walk could potentially alter the outcome of a game.
 

xxironxx

PhD in Trollin
BGOL Investor
These are professionals breh

I’m not understanding what u are exactly saying

The man at the plate has every advantage thrown to him


U thought he was gonna strike out? :lol:

And the reason u seen them as a great lineup is because they had every advantage. Top to bottom they cheated. OF COURSE they gonna look good.
You any good at baseball?
 

spider705

We are Wakanda
BGOL Investor
MLB ain't giving fans the reaction/punishment they want because they know that if that happens it'll expose waaaaay more than what they're willing to admit.

They know exactly how deep that rabbit hole goes...
 

knightmelodic

The Big Cat
BGOL Investor
Exactly. Hitting a baseball is the hardest thing to do in sports. And I don't mean get a hit. I mean just to make contact with the fuckin thing. The mafia style cheating they did gave them a tremendous advantage
Yup. Hitting a round ball with a round bat squarely. A ball that's spinning and moving.
Anyway, those who know about pitching (or hitting) know that a consistent release point is critical for 90% of pitchers. You do have some who throw from different arm angles but the majority are taught to groove that release point so hitters can't tell what's coming. For instance, if a pitcher drops his arm to throw a slider, the batter will obviously know what's coming and adjust accordingly. The same goes for grip. If the batter can see an extra finger on the ball he knows an offspeed, probably breaking pitch is coming and he'll adjust.

I don't write this for you, jack because you obviously know already. But this is for people who don't seem to understand just how major knowing what type of pitch is coming IN REAL TIME is. Throughout its history, one of the tenants of baseball has been the stealing of signs. It's okay. Guy's on second the battery changes signs to throw off or even fool him into relaying incorrect info to the hitter. That's lightyears from systematically deciphering and relaying (via buzzers?!) information of the upcoming pitch.
Decyphering the third base coach signals (from the dugout) is also part of baseball. There are many managers and coaches who were renowned for being able to do it. Still, it's an imprecise process and the other team could just as well send false signals to fool you. That's why many batters don't want to be told because the process is so imprecise.
What the Astros did was flat-out cheating and not part of the gamesmanship of baseball. They're a disgrace and Manfred is even more of a disgrace for letting the players skate. And even more, is the players union for protecting these cheats.

I see someone has put a picture of Judge looking at photos of arm angles of a pitcher. So what? It's no different than a coach going into the tunnel and demonstrating the difference to him. That has been going on forever they just have pictures now, similar to football where you see QBs and other players reviewing pictures after every series. That's IN THE PAST. We're talking about realtime cheating.
 

spider705

We are Wakanda
BGOL Investor
Yup. Hitting a round ball with a round bat squarely. A ball that's spinning and moving.
Anyway, those who know about pitching (or hitting) know that a consistent release point is critical for 90% of pitchers. You do have some who throw from different arm angles but the majority are taught to groove that release point so hitters can't tell what's coming. For instance, if a pitcher drops his arm to throw a slider, the batter will obviously know what's coming and adjust accordingly. The same goes for grip. If the batter can see an extra finger on the ball he knows an offspeed, probably breaking pitch is coming and he'll adjust.

I don't write this for you, jack because you obviously know already. But this is for people who don't seem to understand just how major knowing what type of pitch is coming IN REAL TIME is. Throughout its history, one of the tenants of baseball has been the stealing of signs. It's okay. Guy's on second the battery changes signs to throw off or even fool him into relaying incorrect info to the hitter. That's lightyears from systematically deciphering and relaying (via buzzers?!) information of the upcoming pitch.
Decyphering the third base coach signals (from the dugout) is also part of baseball. There are many managers and coaches who were renowned for being able to do it. Still, it's an imprecise process and the other team could just as well send false signals to fool you. That's why many batters don't want to be told because the process is so imprecise.
What the Astros did was flat-out cheating and not part of the gamesmanship of baseball. They're a disgrace and Manfred is even more of a disgrace for letting the players skate. And even more, is the players union for protecting these cheats.

I see someone has put a picture of Judge looking at photos of arm angles of a pitcher. So what? It's no different than a coach going into the tunnel and demonstrating the difference to him. That has been going on forever they just have pictures now, similar to football where you see QBs and other players reviewing pictures after every series. That's IN THE PAST. We're talking about realtime cheating.
I put the picture of judge up, so addres me... it's a discussion that we have a disagreement about.

First off I'm gonna say as a Houstonian I'm ashamed of my squad and how this has tainted oor world series win. I'm in no way absolving them of their wrongdoings.

But man.... the mental gymnastics you're performing in this response is gold medal worthy. The way you justify other forms of cheating and stealing as being "a part of the game" is just silly.

I'm driving now and I owe my girl a video date since we're in different states at the moment... but I do want to address my concerns with your post when I have time later today.
 

knightmelodic

The Big Cat
BGOL Investor
I put the picture of judge up, so addres me... it's a discussion that we have a disagreement about.

First off I'm gonna say as a Houstonian I'm ashamed of my squad and how this has tainted oor world series win. I'm in no way absolving them of their wrongdoings.

But man.... the mental gymnastics you're performing in this response is gold medal worthy. The way you justify other forms of cheating and stealing as being "a part of the game" is just silly.

I'm driving now and I owe my girl a video date since we're in different states at the moment... but I do want to address my concerns with your post when I have time later today.

I didn't address you about the picture because you're not the one in the picture. The issue is what's going on in the picture, not who posted it. Not really sure why you think just because you posted it you should be accorded some association but, okay.

It's curious how you infer that I am justifying any type of cheating. If you don't understand the difference between what the Astros did and what has been done for over a hundred years I'm not sure we can even have a discussion. The two are so dissimilar its ludicrous to even try to draw parallels.
When you understand the difference between receiving SPECIFIC and 100% CORRECT information about upcoming pitches and stealing signs wherein the info is difficult for the batter to process because it's received so close to the actual pitch, the way it's received, and also the fact that it's not at all reliable, then you'll understand why one is cheating and the other is part of baseball.
 

spider705

We are Wakanda
BGOL Investor
I didn't address you about the picture because you're not the one in the picture. The issue is what's going on in the picture, not who posted it. Not really sure why you think just because you posted it you should be accorded some association but, okay.

It's curious how you infer that I am justifying any type of cheating. If you don't understand the difference between what the Astros did and what has been done for over a hundred years I'm not sure we can even have a discussion. The two are so dissimilar its ludicrous to even try to draw parallels.
When you understand the difference between receiving SPECIFIC and 100% CORRECT information about upcoming pitches and stealing signs wherein the info is difficult for the batter to process because it's received so close to the actual pitch, the way it's received, and also the fact that it's not at all reliable, then you'll understand why one is cheating and the other is part of baseball.
Again, you're pointing out arm angles and all this other stuff... I'm addressing how you want to sit here and say that because something has been going on for years It's ok.

Robbery has been going on for years... but it's evolved from holding a gun to somebody taking money to hacking their account and taking their money... either way you've had money taken...

And then the terms you use is very "white" sounding... you say they're "deciphering" the third base coach's signals from the dugout... that's a fancy word for stealing.

You clearly say stealing signs is ok, and I say stealing is stealing bro... and other teams have done this, from the red sox cheating using apple watches to as stated earlier in my post larussa having a camera pointed at the catcher as early as the late 80s.

If you encourage cheating as a part of a game then don't get upset if someone figures out a more effective way of cheating. Give a man an inch...
 

spider705

We are Wakanda
BGOL Investor
And don't even get me started on the buzzer... the logistics of making that happen are too difficult to pull off... I can post a video of plenty of players with that same type of indentation under their Jersey as the one they claim Altuve wore...

Again, get off this high horse pursuit bullshit, admit the game is flawed and address it EQUALLY AND EVENLY. Don't make one team the scapegoat for your years of turning the blind eye allowing shenanigans to continue in the sport.
 

knightmelodic

The Big Cat
BGOL Investor
Again, you're pointing out arm angles and all this other stuff... I'm addressing how you want to sit here and say that because something has been going on for years It's ok.

Robbery has been going on for years... but it's evolved from holding a gun to somebody taking money to hacking their account and taking their money... either way you've had money taken...

And then the terms you use is very "white" sounding... you say they're "deciphering" the third base coach's signals from the dugout... that's a fancy word for stealing.

You clearly say stealing signs is ok, and I say stealing is stealing bro... and other teams have done this, from the red sox cheating using apple watches to as stated earlier in my post larussa having a camera pointed at the catcher as early as the late 80s.

If you encourage cheating as a part of a game then don't get upset if someone figures out a more effective way of cheating. Give a man an inch...
"And then the terms you use is very "white" sounding... "
So, using english properly is "white sounding" now? If this is a part of your argument then it fails miserably. In fact your whole argument fails utterly because you attempt to correlate a PRACTICE with a CRIMINAL ACTIVITY. The two are not even in the same ballpark (pun intended).

Let's break it down. The PRACTICE of "stealing signs (bases?) is done out in the open. The signs aren't locked in a safe nor are they of any intrinsic value whatsoever. They are not subject to criminal statutes. "Stealing" them isn't a crime. It is a practice that has been going on in baseball since the very beginning. As, such, it is an ACCEPTED practice because all teams both use signs and attempt to decipher the other teams' signs. Why? To gain an advantage certainly but how much of an advantage? Well, none actually because just like in the game of Poker, are you reading an actual "tell" or are you reading a tell that the person wants you to read? So it is with baseball. You don't know what you're looking at because you don't know if the other team is giving true or false signs. And so it basically cancels itself out. As well as what I have already mentioned about the difficulties in relaying signs as they happen.
Now what the Astros did by using algorithms and buzzers or garbage cans to transmit PREVIOUSLY DECIPHERED signals to hitter PRIOR TO the pitch is cheating plain and simple because the other team has no means of countering it, which is the total opposite of the sign "stealing" that has been going on since the dawn of baseball.
If you can't see the difference I don't know what to tell you.


Other than pick up a dictionary every once in a while.
 

playahaitian

Rising Star
Certified Pussy Poster
Kris Bryant Calls Astros' Sign-Stealing Scandal 'Worse Than Steriods'
JENNA WEST4 HOURS AGO
Kris Bryant is the latest player to rip the Houston Astros following their sign-stealing scandal and weak public apologies.

Bryant addressed the media on Saturday morning at the Chicago Cubs' spring training complex in Mesa, Ariz.

"I personally think it's worse than steroids," Bryant said when asked about Houston's scheme.

The Cubs third baseman did not hold back while criticizing the apologies the Astros made on Thursday morning.

"What a disgrace that was. Watching their apology, there's no sincerity."

Bryant also added he believes the theory that Astros players wore signal-transmitting buzzers in 2019.

"I totally believe that, too. If you find a way to cheat the system in one way, you're only going to continue to try to push the boundary," he said.

Bryant joins a growing group of players around the league to call out the Astros in the wake of their cheating operation. On Friday, Los Angeles Dodgers outfielder Cody Bellinger and pitcher Ross Stripling expressed their anger over the Astros' actions.

"Those guys were cheating for three years. I think what people don't realize is [José] Altuve stole an MVP from [Aaron] Judge in '17. Everyone knows they stole the ring from us," Bellinger said.

Earlier this week, Cincinnati Reds pitcher Trevor Bauer compared the Astros' sign stealing to the Black Sox scandal.

News regarding Houston's illicit sign-stealing scheme has dominated baseball conversations since the end of the 2019 season. On Jan. 13, commissioner Rob Manfred released a nine-page report detailing how Houston cheated during the 2017-18 regular seasons and postseasons. Manfred suspended Astros manager AJ Hinch and general manager Jeff Luhnow through the 2020 World Series, but team owner Jim Crane subsequently fired them.


The Red Sox and Mets later parted ways with managers Alex Cora and Carlos Beltrán after both men were named in MLB's report. Cora served as the Astros' bench coach in 2017, while Beltrán was a member of the World Series-winning roster.

 

playahaitian

Rising Star
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Cubs' Kris Bryant Calls Astros 'A Disgrace'
"Watching their apology, there’s no sincerity," Kris Bryant says.

670 THE SCORE STAFF
FEBRUARY 15, 2020 - 12:20 PM


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(670 The Score) -- While the Cubs weren't directly affected by the Astros' sign-stealing scandal in the way so many other teams and players have been across MLB, they nonetheless harbor anger and ill will toward a cheating scheme that has rocked the sport.

Usually mild-mannered and affable Cubs third baseman Kris Bryant didn't hold back in his opinion of the Astros as he met with the media upon reporting to spring training in Mesa, Ariz. on Saturday.

"What a disgrace that was," Bryant said. "Watching their apology too, there’s no sincerity. There's no genuineness when it comes to it. I certainly know that if I messed up big in that way, I'd be the first one to let you know just how big of a mess-up it was. It's just hard to believe. It really is. It's sad.

"There's players that don't want it. I still think they were going through the (trash can) banging and stuff, because I really think it turned into a routine there. A lot of the apology was about 2017. It's like, I'm pretty sure it's going on in 2018 and 2019 too. That's just so sad. If they didn't get caught, they'd still be doing it. They're only doing this apology because they got caught. There's a lot of feelings on it, and I know everybody around the league is really upset and rightfully so, because it's really a disgrace to the game."

Related: Bernstein: Astros keep revealing who they are

The Astros utilized cameras and technology in their sign-stealing scheme to relay the pitch types coming to their batters while winning the World Series in 2017, cheating that has continued over the past few seasons. In the fallout from the scandal, the Astros fired manager A.J. Hinch and general manager Jeff Luhnow and the organization was fined $5 million and docked its first- and second-round draft picks in 2020 and 2021.
There have been accusations that the Astros used electronic buzzers on their bodies as well, which they've denied. Bryant wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the Astros did use buzzers.

"I totally believe that too," Bryant said. "I really do. I mean, I think if you find a way to cheat the system in one way, you're only going to continue to try to push the boundaries. A lot of the situations and circumstances surrounding this is very suspect. It's definitely not far-fetched to believe that there were other means of cheating involved."

Asked if Astros players should've been punished, Bryant responded "absolutely."

"If I did it, I would accept the punishment," Bryant said. "You would have to. I thought the whole punishment was weak. I mean, was is it? They got fined, what, 5 million bucks? You make that selling the price of beers at the games now. You make that -- I don't know how many games -- but you make that real quick."

Bryant went on.

"That just feels so wrong," he said. "I'm playing golf with my dad, and I feel bad for taking a one-foot gimme putt. Doing this? This is people's livelihoods too that they're messing with.

"I personally think it's worse than steroids. I really do. With steroids, you have to compete and hit the ball."

 

playahaitian

Rising Star
Certified Pussy Poster
I just thought about this. The Astros gettin fucked up in spring training we don't have to wait for the regular season to start. :lol:
All this unapologetic sh*t they trying to roll with?

Is a HORRIBLE decision

cause watch NOW?

the UNION gonna have to get involved

they aint realizing that the union is the ONLY reasons the commissioner and all the owners aint lay down the heavy hammer.

NOW they pissing off the brotherhood

everyone was willing to let this go

cause no one has COMPLETELY clean hands

but the Astros went extra (I compare it to Snoop going after Gayle, he was OK until he went EXTRA, the Astros were OK but then they had to go EXTRA and they were also collectively considered assholes throughout baseball from the Owner on down)
 

jack walsh13

Jack Walsh 13
BGOL Investor
All this unapologetic sh*t they trying to roll with?

Is a HORRIBLE decision

cause watch NOW?

the UNION gonna have to get involved

they aint realizing that the union is the ONLY reasons the commissioner and all the owners aint lay down the heavy hammer.

NOW they pissing off the brotherhood

everyone was willing to let this go

cause no one has COMPLETELY clean hands

but the Astros went extra (I compare it to Snoop going after Gayle, he was OK until he went EXTRA, the Astros were OK but then they had to go EXTRA and they were also collectively considered assholes throughout baseball from the Owner on down)
Yup. Crane should have just shut the fuck up.

 
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