Houston Astros caught cheating in 2017: Manager and GM......FIRED! Dusty Baker HIRED!

spider705

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Now it can be told: Yu Darvish was tipping his pitches in losing his two World Series starts against Houston.

According to a Houston player, the Astros often knew what Darvish was about to throw by the way he brought the ball into his glove in the set position. (Darvish pitches exclusively out of the stretch.) The player said it worked like this: Darvish holds the ball at his side when he gets the sign from the catcher. Whether he re-grips or not as he brings the ball into his glove was the tip-off whether he was going to throw a slider/cutter or a fastball.

“We knew the first time we faced him [in Game 3],” the player said. “The next time [in Game 7] it was mostly the same, but then it was more about just having a great game plan going in. We knew he was going to try to go back to his slider to find it. We had a great approach.”

Darvish did not make it out of the second inning in either start. He threw 48 sliders and cutters to Houston hitters in the World Series. They swung and missed only twice at them while hitting .556 against the pitch.
 

playahaitian

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:puzzled:


But hey, it's fun to believe everything you see and hear...
Hmmm...

I was just talking with 2 brothers who never made it out of minors but high level d1 college

And while they still think the Astros were wrong

They made a very very compelling argument of support which i have not heard anywhere else OUTSIDE current former players circles
 
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playahaitian

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The entire astros ORGANIZATION from ownership management players gonna finally feel what its like to be judged primarily because your unliked

Forget facts etc

Like bonds, clemons vs. Ortiz

Any player not voted in cause some beat writer didnt like them

Or some absurd Jeter sh*t

The media and league just aint that into the Astros

So regardless they gonna suffer throughout history

I still think a good apology some contrition?

This was about to be forgotten
 

spider705

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@playahaitian, I've read two authors thoughts on this that sum up my feelings on this topic perfectly... here's one, written by a Kansas City Royals sports columnist:

"This story is filled with contradictions. Stealing signs is ok manually, except when you get a fastball in the ear for it. But it’s definitely not ok with technology, except everyone was doing it. And it’s happened, with available technology, throughout history. It wasn’t illegal until 2019, except we already had two teams busted for it in 2017. Except those were the Yankees and Red Sox, which created a high profile incident that went away quietly with just fines for both teams (because, of course, both were doing it). The Astros reportedly cheated that same season and are looking increasingly like they’re going to get the book thrown at them.

If someone wants to throw the book at the Astros, only the Astros, for stealing signs - it seems intellectually dishonest."


Baseball is so fucked and these dudes KILLING ME with their "holier than thou" mentality when this shit is so unbelievably contrary. "You can cheat, but don't cheat in a way we don't want you to cheat because that'll ruin the integrity of the game..."

Are you fuckin kidding me?
 

playahaitian

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@playahaitian, I've read two authors thoughts on this that sum up my feelings on this topic perfectly... here's one, written by a Kansas City Royals sports columnist:

"This story is filled with contradictions. Stealing signs is ok manually, except when you get a fastball in the ear for it. But it’s definitely not ok with technology, except everyone was doing it. And it’s happened, with available technology, throughout history. It wasn’t illegal until 2019, except we already had two teams busted for it in 2017. Except those were the Yankees and Red Sox, which created a high profile incident that went away quietly with just fines for both teams (because, of course, both were doing it). The Astros reportedly cheated that same season and are looking increasingly like they’re going to get the book thrown at them.

If someone wants to throw the book at the Astros, only the Astros, for stealing signs - it seems intellectually dishonest."


Baseball is so fucked and these dudes KILLING ME with their "holier than thou" mentality when this shit is so unbelievably contrary. "You can cheat, but don't cheat in a way we don't want you to cheat because that'll ruin the integrity of the game..."

Are you fuckin kidding me?
Look I am NOT enough of a baseball fan purist or historian to comment above fanboy level

I completely understand a Astros fan calling bullsh*t and feeling persecuted

but like I've said from JUMP

People just don't LIKE ya'll

it has reached a point where no MATTER what the TRUTH is?

Ya'll done.

I am NOT sure of the specific THING people hate.

but man oh man they HATE your squad.

Players aint go after current players like this during the STEROID stuff.

Baseball Union the most powerful and united period

this is unprecedented.

Ya'll got mike trout to say more in one interview then he has his ENTIRE career.

As a Yankee fan who is close friends with Red Sox, Cardinal and Cubs fans.

You gotta just let this one go.

Astros ALREADY confessed they cheated to a degree, owner said they broke the rules.

Its done, cause all the tough talk? Then DO NOT SAY SORRY, but you can't be a little bit pregnant.

and the Astros apparently BEEN low key hated.

Owner on down

Now its just your time, sorry.

TRUST i KNOW how it feels.

But ya'll were holier then thou too, ya'll been talking sh*t, the slanty eyes stuff, the sign stealing ...

I got people who ACTUALLY PLAYED and do NOT LIKE ya'll

telling me

get off the astros dicks, and I mean giving an explanations your owner would pay MILLIONS for TODAY if I told you....

but will NOT go on the record!

Cause at the end of they day?

They said they STILL wrong and they got CAUGHT and then acted like assholes. (not in that order)

It is REALLY THAT simple.

All ya'll had to do was APOLOGIZE and KEEP IT MOVING.

THAT'S IT.

Cause yeah OK lets say EVERYONE cheating (they ain't) but lets say..

Why you gotta rub it people's faces?

Personally I don't care.

But Astros and Piratres etc FAMOUS for ENFORCING the UNWRITTEN RULES.

whelp THIS is what you get.

don't BLAME the fans and the media, cause WE been telling you all that sh*t was gonna be the death of the sport.
 

spider705

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BGOL Investor
Look I am NOT enough of a baseball fan purist or historian to comment above fanboy level

I completely understand a Astros fan calling bullsh*t and feeling persecuted

but like I've said from JUMP

People just don't LIKE ya'll

it has reached a point where no MATTER what the TRUTH is?

Ya'll done.

I am NOT sure of the specific THING people hate.

but man oh man they HATE your squad.

Players aint go after current players like this during the STEROID stuff.

Baseball Union the most powerful and united period

this is unprecedented.

Ya'll got mike trout to say more in one interview then he has his ENTIRE career.

As a Yankee fan who is close friends with Red Sox, Cardinal and Cubs fans.

You gotta just let this one go.

Astros ALREADY confessed they cheated to a degree, owner said they broke the rules.

Its done, cause all the tough talk? Then DO NOT SAY SORRY, but you can't be a little bit pregnant.

and the Astros apparently BEEN low key hated.

Owner on down

Now its just your time, sorry.

TRUST i KNOW how it feels.

But ya'll were holier then thou too, ya'll been talking sh*t, the slanty eyes stuff, the sign stealing ...

I got people who ACTUALLY PLAYED and do NOT LIKE ya'll

telling me

get off the astros dicks, and I mean giving an explanations your owner would pay MILLIONS for TODAY if I told you....

but will NOT go on the record!

Cause at the end of they day?

They said they STILL wrong and they got CAUGHT and then acted like assholes. (not in that order)

It is REALLY THAT simple.

All ya'll had to do was APOLOGIZE and KEEP IT MOVING.

THAT'S IT.

Cause yeah OK lets say EVERYONE cheating (they ain't) but lets say..

Why you gotta rub it people's faces?

Personally I don't care.

But Astros and Piratres etc FAMOUS for ENFORCING the UNWRITTEN RULES.

whelp THIS is what you get.

don't BLAME the fans and the media, cause WE been telling you all that sh*t was gonna be the death of the sport.
To me the punishment based on the trash can shit alone, is overkill. I'm not saying we don't deserve punishment, but based on sign stealing alone is contrarian bullshit when you consider that sign stealing is apart of the game, the good sign stealers are applauded, and the general consensus is that you gotta protect yourself from signs being stole rather than have the mlb step in and do it for you.

BUT, this team has been on some fuckery for years now and it's finally caught them. They banned reporters from dugouts, had a sexual harassment case I believe going on, have an alleged racist for an owner, tanked for 3 years straight, picked up that woman beater Osuna on the low when nobody else would touch him with a 10ft pole, had yuri making slanted eyes at an Asian pitcher... yeah, these niggas was wildin'... factor in all of that as a collective and punish all those sins, I'll gladly take it and the bad guy image that comes with it. But don't come at me with this purity of the game crap... you can kick rocks with that shit.
 

playahaitian

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To me the punishment based on the trash can shit alone, is overkill. I'm not saying we don't deserve punishment, but based on sign stealing alone is contrarian bullshit when you consider that sign stealing is apart of the game, the good sign stealers are applauded, and the general consensus is that you gotta protect yourself from signs being stole rather than have the mlb step in and do it for you.

BUT, this team has been on some fuckery for years now and it's finally caught them. They banned reporters from dugouts, had a sexual harassment case I believe going on, have an alleged racist for an owner, tanked for 3 years straight, picked up that woman beater Osuna on the low when nobody else would touch him with a 10ft pole, had yuri making slanted eyes at an Asian pitcher... yeah, these niggas was wildin'... factor in all of that as a collective and punish all those sins, I'll gladly take it and the bad guy image that comes with it. But don't come at me with this purity of the game crap... you can kick rocks with that shit.
/thread

cannot argue THAT specific point at all.
 

spider705

Light skin, non ADOS Lebron hater!
BGOL Investor
Aaron Judge just went in too...
They got fined in 2017 for cheating and stealing signs. He need to shut the fuck up and go help Chapman find that BOMB that Altuve hit off him to go to the world series... I hear it's somewhere near Egypt now
 

playahaitian

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They got fined in 2017 for cheating and stealing signs. He need to shut the fuck up and go help Chapman find that BOMB that Altuve hit off him to go to the world series... I hear it's somewhere near Egypt now
But it don't matter now.

The PLAYERS their "brothers" are going in now

BIG NAME PLAYERS

And NOT JUST in baseball

Don't blame them

Its the commissioner and your owner and your players.

Just shut up apologize stay humble sit down

it goes away.

Calling the championship a hunk of metal?

Crane saying it had NO effect?

Wtf???!!!

Say what you want

NO OTHER TEAM who was fined?

acted like THIS.

this isn't even about the actual "crime" anymore

Its how you ACT afterward that is making this worse.
 

spider705

Light skin, non ADOS Lebron hater!
BGOL Investor
That's because the red sox and Yankees had theirs brushed under the rug because of who they are... even got lebron talking but these white folks he running to defend was the same ones at his neck over his China comments... he need to chill too... he was barely breaking in the league but let's not act like Tim Donaghy didn't exist
 

playahaitian

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They just got the fcking commissioner of major league baseball to issue one of the most direst no nonsense apologies in the history of sports for that hink of metal comment

Baseball aint apologize to jackie Robinson with that much contrition and sincerity

Wow...

These white players about ride on this dude for the rest of his tenure.

And if i was the astros?

I would immediately and i mean now

never ever speak of this chrating stuff again

Cause he like an inch from taking titles.
 

Llano

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Man I'm getting tired of this shit...at this point the Astros need to just accept their role as villains and not give a fuck. A lot of fake outrage going on in a sport that's historically had a bunch of cheating scandals.
 

spider705

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BGOL Investor
Okay

I see this is gonna be the astro way

Good luck with that.
If the Astros way is not being a pushover and allowing yourself to be scapegoated by a league that has allowed cheating to continue on under the guise of gamesmanship and punishing some more severely than others then so be it.

The mlb knows what's up that's why they didn't punish any players. The union would have got involved, it would have gone before an arbitrator, and players would have aired that league out.

For fans and "purists," they better take this punishment, accept it and move on. If a player that only had 8 major league at bats has already said on record that they know every sign and pitch coming by the time the 4th batter reaches the plate, imagine what a veteran player has to say.

Shut up, walk away, and move on.... that goes DOUBLE for the Astros
 

playahaitian

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I really dislike this cac. I see he's taken time from his hate of the Rockets to join the anti Astros bandwagon.
It aint no bandwagon

Its a damn convoy

Every fcking body piling on at this point

Again...

I was actually defending the Astros at one point

But if they gonma be assholes about it

Well then good luck cause all they doing is making more and more detractors

Explain how that going to help.

Actually don't.

We just need to see when the season start, then the world series ans

If 5 years from now

they STILL calling astros cheaters?

Its a wrap

And like i said i aint even saying its FAIR.

But at this point?

It is what it is and the astros made they bed

and now they fans have to lie in it.
 

jack walsh13

Jack Walsh 13
BGOL Investor
They just got the fcking commissioner of major league baseball to issue one of the most direst no nonsense apologies in the history of sports for that hink of metal comment

Baseball aint apologize to jackie Robinson with that much contrition and sincerity

Wow...

These white players about ride on this dude for the rest of his tenure.

And if i was the astros?

I would immediately and i mean now

never ever speak of this chrating stuff again

Cause he like an inch from taking titles.
One thing is clear. When it's time to vote on Manfred his ass is outta there. Theres no coming back from this. Now he's trying to hide behind the players union. Tony Clarke just blasted his ass. This is an entire clusterfuck of epic proportions. :smh:

 

spider705

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BGOL Investor
These guys anger is pointed in the wrong direction... from Evan Drellich:

In September 2017 — and then again in 2018 and 2019 — MLB told its teams it would hold club management accountable for electronic sign stealing. MLB’s working logic was a belief that team officials, not the players, control video access for players.

The 2019 rules, in fact, explicitly stated that players would not be punished. According to the memo, “Clubs and Club Personnel (other than players) will be subject to progressive discipline by the Commissioner’s Office for violation of these Regulations.”

Those words would have been used against the league in any hearing.

In Manfred’s investigation, he noted that Luhnow “did not forward the memoranda and did not confirm that the players and field staff were in compliance with MLB rules and the memoranda.”

Put it all together, and here is what likely would have happened had MLB pursued a punishment, according to people with experience in these matters:

MLB would have suspended an Astros player. The player and the MLBPA would have promptly filed a grievance.

The player could have contended that players have always stolen signs and that MLB’s rules included gray areas. (The 2017 rules had no specific wording about the video replay rooms, for example.)

MLB then would have argued that Manfred put all parties on notice in September 2017, when he punished the Red Sox and Yankees, signifying that electronic sign stealing was being treated differently.

The player could have said: “Well, my team never told me they were going to be tough on this. And, ‘Oh, by the way, we were banging a garbage can — and my field manager never did anything about that.’”

Not only did Luhnow fail to pass on the rules, but manager A.J. Hinch did not stop the system — and bench coach Alex Cora helped set it up.

What a labor arbitrator could have seen would have been an action condoned: The player did not have notice of misconduct, and on top of it, his manager gave tacit approval to the behavior. The player would then win the grievance.

This is on the union that would protect the players at all costs and the league itself for not putting anything in place to punish players.
 

playahaitian

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One thing is clear. When it's time to vote on Manfred his ass is outta there. Theres no coming back from this. Now he's trying to hide behind the players union. Tony Clarke just blasted his ass. This is an entire clusterfuck of epic proportions. :smh:

Its all leadership

Say what yall want but Goddell follows his bosses and protects them even from themselves

I think he horrible too but now after seeing mlb?

He is NOT the worst.

Future thread on who the best commish is in major pro sports
 

dugington

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Registered
When was number 27 won? Y'all moving into Dallas cowboy territory...

Remember when the Yankees were relevant?
We could NEVER be the Cowgirls. We are the STANDARD in this shit.
In fact YALL are more like the Eagles: Finally won ONE (and cheated to get it) and THINK that yall are relevant. :lol:
Congrats on your 1st and ONLY title being tainted FOREVER. :lol:
 
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