yeah man..that was a thing of pure beauty
*** HBO Boxing: Jean Pascal vs. Bernard Hopkins II - Official Thread ***
- Thread starter the13thround
- Start date
yeah man..that was a thing of pure beauty
Bhop is a natural Light Heavy and Sugar Ray was a blown up Welter. Bhop would be too big for him. Is Bhop top 25? Let's see. Here are some of the greats as they pop into my head. I know I'll miss some.
Ali
Robinson
Armstrong
Joe Lewis
Johnson
Chavez
Duran
Whitaker
Hagler
Hearns
Leonard
Mayweather
Roldan
Jones
Arguello
Pryor
Calzhage
Holyfield
Tyson
Lennox Lewis
Marciano
Frazier
You were wrong
He was too tired to follow up
Correct. The only thing has hasn't done is lose badly.
Definitely, he really needs to relocate to the states, hook up with a Floyd, Sr., Roach, or even Buddy, someone who will round out his game. He reminds me of a low end Berto, who is very physically gifted, but no true fundamentals. It's amazing, in an age where PEDs are so common, that at the end of the day, fundamentals are still winning out more often than not over raw athleticism. We can glaze over what BHop just achieved, but the level he continues to fight at, at 46 is astonishing!!!
I agree with all of these except Tyson... I know he's in the hall and all, but honestly who has he REALLY beaten!?!?! He is more in it for notoriety and intimidation than an ACTUAL body of work... every time he stepped up to the elite class of fighter he loss.... Lewis, Holyfield, etc. He had a nice 4-5 year run where he was the talk, but no matter how many Trevor Berbick's or aging Larry Holmes' he beat, not a Top 25 worthy career by any stretch...
Agreed. I have a hard time putting tyson in my top 50. he lost pretty much all of his bouts against elite fighters... was never the same fighters after he lost Gus...by his mid to late 20s had already deteriorated into a brawler.... a what if story to me because he certainly started as a BOXER but his life outside of the ring derailed him in the ring.
i also cant put Lennox in a top 25 of all-time...he was underrated by most and underappreciated but putting him in the top 25 of all-time is really overrating him. I cant put Bhop in the top 25 and Bhop certainly has to rank above Lennox.
I
Buddy? You shouldn't wish this that curse on anyone.
No exaggeration, the last 15 times I've seen McGirt in a fighters corner, his fighter lost. No bullshittin!
Buddy? You shouldn't wish this that curse on anyone.
No exaggeration, the last 15 times I've seen McGirt in a fighters corner, his fighter lost. No bullshittin!
So where is Holyfield if Lennox doesn't cut it?
...and where is Larry Holmes in the Holyfield, Lennox and Tyson discussion.
Personally I think every heavy in the past 30 years suffered from the aura of the heavies in the 60's and 70's. Like with Holmes...it's like, he was good, but he's not Ali or Fraizer.
I didn't have him ahead in any order. He fought Toney when he was 35, Toney was around 23-24 and alot of people felt he was robbed twice. Don't even bring up a 40 year old McCallum that Roy Jones couldn't destroy.
I would have Holmes and Holyfied in the high 30s...not top 25 though..just my opinion...
yeah..i agree with what you said about the last 30 years
I have a hard time agreeing about Holmes. Maybe his body of work keeps him out of the top 25. But to say Larry Holmes was merely good? The only other heavyweight more physically talented at boxing was Ali. I know people love to bring up his loss to Tyson but he was like 40 years old. Check his fight with Earnie Shavers, Shavers hit him with one of the hardest punches I've ever seen. Holmes was actually out a couple seconds, got back up and whupped his ass.
Holmes certainly has to be ahead of Lennox in my opinion.
Naw, I think Holmes was a lot better than good.
But he's the forgotten great heavyweight though.
I wonder if things would have been different if he didn't get robbed against Spinks, twice. They weren't going to let him catch Marciano's record.
i rank people differently...my top 25 would have more modern names than most other people rankings because i look at things different
i would have someone like bhop or mayweather a bit higher because they are basically students of the older fighters so its crazy to think that they shouldn't eventually surpass them in skill
I cant include Mayweather in a top 25 purely on this body of work.. (or lack of)... he doesnt have enough elite wins under his belt..he did some great work at lightweight but when was the last time he actually took a challenging fight. I love his boxing skills man...and his defensive abilities are top rate...Mayweather is a boxer`s boxer...but what is going to kill his legacy long term is his lack of a legitimate resume..
for instance..look at a resume of Sugar Ray Leonard and then look at Floyd...really no comparison.... being undefeated means nothing if your resume is weak... i actually think Floyd needs at least the Pacman fight and to dominate him to fully showcase his ability...
Hold on. Besides Hearns and Benitez who did Leonard fight in their prime? I'm not a big Mayweather fan but he is undefeated and beat an undefeated Chico Corrales in his prime and an undefeated Ricky Hatton in his prime. He beat a once beaten Zab Judah in his prime. His speed, defense and accuracy is up there with Roy Jones and Ali. He's a dick and is not likable but he has fought everyone accept Pacman.
I agree with all of these except Tyson... I know he's in the hall and all, but honestly who has he REALLY beaten!?!?! He is more in it for notoriety and intimidation than an ACTUAL body of work... every time he stepped up to the elite class of fighter he loss.... Lewis, Holyfield, etc. He had a nice 4-5 year run where he was the talk, but no matter how many Trevor Berbick's or aging Larry Holmes' he beat, not a Top 25 worthy career by any stretch...
Tyson isnt the only wtf on his list. It misses the mark of some of the greatest fighters to me.
You're comparing fighting a prime Hearns and a prime Benitez to Chico Corrales and Ricky Hatton? Or Zab Judah? I love Corrales but he was a brawler. Ricky had no skills and his biggest win was against a washed up Kostya Tszu, he'd gotten a gift against collazo right before his fight with Floyd. Zab is/was a headcase, a talented headcase - but still a headcase coming off an embarrassing loss. You put too much stock in being undefeated - it means shit. Talent-wise, Floyd is in my top ten all time, but his body of work keeps him out of the top 25. Too many what ifs and should haves.
i know this is just your opinion but why do you consider these greats
Calzhage - shouldn't even be mentioned
Holyfield - didn't beat any "elites"(most people say tyson is overrated and lennox and bowe beat him twice)
Frazier - i know some people might get upset but this but frazier only makes most peoples list because he fought Ali i would definitely consider foreman before him
Big time too. Bernard looked dam good man. I wrongly assumed Pascal would address his endurance issue and be able to outlast and outpower BHop. He gassed out.
Yall gotta stop with this Roy Jones great defense shit..
And to be honest I aint fucking with Marciano on the list either, I may be wrong because this was before my day, but from the fights I've seen and reading stories about dude it seemed like he was sheltered away from top black fighters. He didn't fight Louis till he was 147 years old. And from the stories of how some of his fights were fixed..I just cant put dude on my list
I beg to differ. He wasn't sheltered from Jersey Joe or Ezzard Charles. It wasn't his fault that they were old by the time he fought them, but they still fought some of their best fights past their prime. Those were 2 great fighters and he beat them both. You gotta realize dude weighed between 180-190 (cruiserweight) pounds and was knockin dudes out much heavier than him with one punch. I don't think his fights were fixed because in a lot of those fights he was getting his ass kicked but managed to come back and get the ko win.
Like I said it was before my time I can only go on things I've read and seen. I'm not saying he was a bum but I also just don't see All-Time Greatness in those fights.
Rocky Marciano was a human wrecking machine with the hardest punch known to man.
No other fighter in history trained like him, he would literally torture himself in training camp.
The one thing that separates Marciano from any other fighter in history was that NONE of his wins were disputed. He beat the shit out of every man he ever faced.
FPJ, I don't know what stories you read about Marciano, but although boxing was mostly run by the mob when he fought, none of his fights were fixed. The mobsters didn't bother Marciano because he was Italian and they had respect for him.
The only reason he fought Joe Louis was because Louis was in financial turmoil and Marciano wanted to help his idol out. He also needed that name to catapult his career.
Yup
Come on man...you can argue about whether he was given fights that were questionable..like against Hagler but you cant question the resume of Leonard.
Ricky Hatton was an unbeaten bum. We all know hatton was nothing but a brawler. So Im not impressed by Floyd or Pacman beating up on a glorified b-fighter. Zab Judah has always been an underachiever who burns out after the mid rounds and has ZERO discipline...however, he did give floyd problems early as often quick southpaws do...Zab was all talent but doesnt even rank in terms of boxing skills because of his lack of discipline and just straight immaturity... a shame because he had all the physical gifts to be a great boxer
Floyd has done no real work in the welterweight division..he wont even go down was a great welterweight..all his real work was done as lightweight when he was abusing the division.
Im not saying he ran either. Arum avoided putting Floyd in the ring with a prime Cotto and a prime (but in my opinion always overrated) Margarito... but the fact of the matter is that Floyd just doesnt have an impressive resume..even his last two fights... Shane was way over the hill... Marquez was WAY too far beyond his prime weight to be a threat to floyd.
i will never downplay his skill..but the problem is that he doesnt have enough fights against elite fighters that could reasonably pose any real threats..especially over the last several years
Last edited:
All true. I remember as a kid watching a tape of that fight with him and Joe Louis - I mean Louis was 39 I believe and gave Rocky lots of problems. I'd say a younger Louis beats him, but the thing is you could never count Rocky out. He wasn't the most physically talented fighter but dude had an iron clad will and chin and nitroglycerin in his gloves.
yep..that is all im saying... Floyd fights beautifully...text-book combined with natural gifts... outstanding ringsmanship and great intelligence and discipline... but he simply does not fight often enough against elite competition...he plays it well too safely...most fighters pick wisely but Floyd just has a resume that leaves much to be desired... I was glad just to see Shane actually hurt him so that i could finally see Floyd fight back from being visually really hurt in a round...not just hit flush be really hurt..I gained more respect for his discipline and chin and that he never deviated from his game plan despite getting rocked....but I think Shane would have finished him had that fight been 5 years earlier...just my opinion..but now I at least know he has heart and discipline even when hurt.
Similar threads
