*** HBO Boxing: Jean Pascal vs. Bernard Hopkins II - Official Thread ***
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Fuzzy_McNut
Banned
People compare two fighters that fought the same fighters. Who beat shane worse flyod orpacman........but when it comes to tyson nobody brings that up. Everybody fought bums.......only difference is some bums took great fighters the distance while tyson anialated his bums. And spinks and razor ruduck ain't bums. Two very hard hitting heavy weights. Esp. Razor.
Spinks was fighting out of his class..a light stepping up in weight.
Tyson never beat a great fighter in his prime..not ONE. And even him losing to Buster Douglass was not a shock as he always struggled with tall heavyweights would could JAB...and that was no flash knockout... tyson was getting his ass beat that entire fight.
Tyson is really a what-if story...what if he never lost Cus, etc because he started as skilled boxer and derailed until an undisciplined brawler...
No.
The only fighter worth a mention in his resume is Kessler. And anyone that saw that fight, knew Kessler went off tangent and tried to play pitty pat with the master pitty patter.
You could tell that Hopkins didn't train hard enough for Calzaghe. And on top of that, B-hop, a 43 year old B-hop, put that sucker on his ass. Calzaghe looked like shit in his "win" against B-hop.
And people shouldn't even mention Roy Jones, who was clearly washed up.
Fuzzy_McNut
Banned
So was holyfield. Blown up cruiserweight........he beat donovan and frank bruno probably worse then anyone beat them.....in or out their prime. Not that he beat donovans ass like that but still he beat them in a more convinsing fashion. I think that is worth a mention in his case for being top 50
Holyfield has-had a WORLD CLASS chin though..i mean seriously..you can count on your hand how many boxers in the history of the sport had a better chin than Holyfield...and we all know Spinks wasnt won of them. Some boxers can handle going up in weight much better than others.
I just dont think Tyson mauling on Spinks is worthy as a career defining fight.
Tyson has a light resume and unfortunately (later in his career when his skills had deteriorated) he can into a few elite fighters and lost all of his fights.
He beat Holmes twice and stopped Gerry Cooney.
Both of whom were legitimate heavyweights.
Beating two guys like that and not to mention, breaking Holmes' undefeated streak....
That's not someone fighting out of his class.
He just got bigger and moved up like all fighters do as the get older.
Agreed....maybe capsiding him with moving up doesnt fully encapsulate the issue...but when that fight against Tyson occurred, I knew there was no way Spinks was going to be able take a punch from Tyson...he was tailored made for Tyson and visibly smaller than Tyson even coming in at his heaviest weight... I guess I wasnt really impressed by the win..
Fuzzy_McNut
Banned
Beating elite boxers isn't the only thing to take into consideraton; or the only thing that makes a great resume. On his resume he still is the youngest heavyweight everr.....a feat that has yet to be broken. he probaby has one of the best early round knockout percentages and or knockdown percentage. I truly think no matter who he beat they would have said "washed up" or nobody. He could have beaten george foreman in 4, bowe, and beat tommy morrinson........they'd still say the same thing. I don't think any of his loses would have done a whole lot for his career. Had he beaten lennox.....past his prime at the time (or at least he was overweight)
But wouldnt you agree that for a fighter to be very high up the all-time great list he must have wins against other elite fighters in this prime.
Floyd is the most technically sound fighter in boxing right now and a defensive all-time great...however, his lack of resume (wins against elite fighters during their primes) makes it really hard to me to put him very high any lists...
More info on Spinks as a heavyweight from 1988.
What the public was saying about Spinks at the time...
Skip to 7:37 - 9:15
man..you really gonna make me sit through Larry Merchant...man..dude makes me mute my computer when he is commentating
just watched it though...
thanksFam, the fact that you mentioned these two as a point of reference to validate your point, basically invalidates your point... Cut that shit out man...
No way in hell, if you take a serious look at Tyson's body of work does it warrant Top 25 consideration, shit I would be hard pressed to make him Top 50! The only reason he gets mentioned and a Hall of Fame nod is because of his public media created profile!!!! If his ass fought in the 50s or 60s without the media presence he came up in, we wouldn't even know his name. He came at a time when the heavyweight division was in Flux, the last great HW at that time, Holmes, was at the end of his rope... and the Boxing world needed a new sensation...
That is a real dumb ass statement when defining all time great status...
Who the hell did he beat to win his first title?!?!? And again, with all of the media build up they 'needed' a storyline to keep the HW division relevant... His rise was more WCW/WWF/WWE than true 'earned' recognition...
His ass couldn't even beat Buster Douglas... How the hell are you even going to try to prove a point naming these fighters... Your reaching Dude...
Fuzzy_McNut
Banned
Fam, the fact that you mentioned these two as a point of reference to validate your point, basically invalidates your point... Cut that shit out man...
No way in hell, if you take a serious look at Tyson's body of work does it warrant Top 25 consideration, shit I would be hard pressed to make him Top 50! The only reason he gets mentioned and a Hall of Fame nod is because of his public media created profile!!!! If his ass fought in the 50s or 60s without the media presence he came up in, we wouldn't even know his name. He came at a time when the heavyweight division was in Flux, the last great HW at that time, Holmes, was at the end of his rope... and the Boxing world needed a new sensation...
Frak bruno one of te best ko percentages in boxing history isn't a honorable mention.....okay. donovan one of the hardest hitting heavy weights ever.....not honorable....ok
Fuzzy_McNut
Banned
ok tyson is the oldest heavy weight to win the tittle...........That is a real dumb ass statement when defining all time great status...
Who the hell did he beat to win his first title?!?!? And again, with all of the media build up they 'needed' a storyline to keep the HW division relevant... His rise was more WCW/WWF/WWE than true 'earned' recognition...
His ass couldn't even beat Buster Douglas... How the hell are you even going to try to prove a point naming these fighters... Your reaching Dude...
does that sound like a real smartass statement?A person's resume is only based off of who they beat......that's a real smart ass comment to you isn't it?
If he would have lost to george in 4 and bowe.......that's a smartass staement too huh?
Basically no... there's a whole lot of hackers out there who it hard?!?!?! So, because you beat a Dude who hits hard, makes you an all time great? Man please, how you sound!!! Who the hell did Bruno or Donovan beat as well? Take a moment and think... before you answer...
Fuzzy_McNut
Banned
Basically no... there's a whole lot of hackers out there who it hard?!?!?! So, because you beat a Dude who hits hard, makes you an all time great? Man please, how you sound!!! Who the hell did Bruno or Donovan beat as well? Take a moment and think... before you answer...
Now you isolating my statements and picking my arguements....you know what I said in the entire context. Him beating one of the hardest hitters was never my only claim fr him being in top 50..........bruno and donovan....well they beat 90's version of rocky marcianos opponents
I was not comparing Hatton or Corrales' talent against Hearns or Benitez'. What I was saying was that Mayweather fought the best fighters in his division when he was a lightweight. Leonard ran from Aaron Pryor and wouldn't fight Hagler until Hagler was old enough to steal a fight from him. I hear what all of you are saying about Mayweather and I agree with most of it. But lets not think that Leonard was this hearty warrior because he wasn't.
how do you yanks rate
Eubanks
His is one of my faveourite boxers
Eubank......
Definitely one of the best British fighters ever, but that's about it.
His best win was over Nigel Benn.
When he was champion, he never faced any of the top American guys at 168 during that time.
Michael Nunn, James Toney, Gerald McClellan, and Roy Jones Jr. were all of the guys that were in the division at that time who he refused to fight.
After he had that brutal fight that ended up with Watson being paralyzed, he lost his killer instinct that made him who who was.
Oh yeah and Joe Calzaghe whipped his ass too.
How you quest SRL is crazy. I mean him fighting Duran when he did was epic. And him coming back to fight him again showed what he was about. I mean you can find holes in a lot of most fighters resume. But I like to compare fighters by the amount of hall of fame fighters they went up against and fight of the year type fights they have. If you do that Mayweather is nowhere near SRL's level.
http://www.filesonic.com/file/1004855144
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