{~~~Guns, Guns and Mo' Guns - The Right To Keep And Bear Arms~~~}

[0utsyder]

Funny I got this white cat who I used to work with back in Michigan. Homie lives on a farm and we used to make fun of him cause he would make his own bullets, not reshell them, he'd make them from scratch. Now I am like; "Damn, I wonder if Rick would be able to hook me up?"

 

[cli-terminator]

TAURUS G2C is a 200 dollar CCW 9mm. You got these fcukers trying to sell it for 399

That's insane

 

[DiGeneral]

Do you like them? Is the Fn worth the extra money? Are they reliable? Any other information would be greatly appreciated.

I like the FN better than the Ruger. IMHO The ergonomics of the Ruger leave a lot to be desired. It's much thinner and flatter than the FN (similar to M&P Shield which I hate). The FN feels and shoots more refined, it eats both proprietary and American Eagle ammo. My Ruger choked on AE ammo. Both have very little discernible recoil, with the Ruger being a tad snappier. Almost everyone I know with the Ruger 5.7 likes it. I will say that currently I have seen a fair amount of 5.7 ammo on the otherwise empty shelves locally.

I'd recommend getting one or the other, to scratch that itch. It's like wanting a Desert Eagle, you won't be satisfied until you own one. If the Ruger was available prior to me purchasing the FN. I would have probably bought the Ruger, considering the lower price point. Both of them sit in the safe until someone asks me about one or the other, then I bring them out.

 

[BKF]

I have no issue with policies being implemented to make it tougher for people to get guns like making them take classes and show a level of proficiency similar to CCW but when I see or hear talks about banning specific guns like ARs then I feel those are cop outs passing the buck. ARs are popular cuz of their modular capabilities but are no more dangerous than a Hi-Point pistol in the hands of someone who wants to hurt others. Too many uneducated people making rules on things they don't fully understand.

I look at NY as a perfect example of these extreme gun control mandates not being effective. All the shootings that happen in the boroughs but not one gun store to be found anywhere within city limits. And to get a handgun in NY is a huge task in itself in the areas outside city limits. So obviously the guns are coming from somewhere else but now the citizens have no way to deter attacks or defend themselves.

There is no law on the books that are 100% effective to determine crime.

Having gun control, and people getting shot doesn't mean the law isn't effective. For years NYC was one the safest large cities in the country.
Now if you want to determine how effective, or not so effective something is. Then compare cities/states with and without gun control. If cities/states without gun control have less crimes, shooting, murders, etc.....then you have a better understanding whether gun control is effective, or not.

 

[ThaAnsa3]

 

[cli-terminator]

There is no law on the books that are 100% effective to determine crime.

Having gun control, and people getting shot doesn't mean the law isn't effective. For years NYC was one the safest cities in the country.
Now if you want to determine how effective, or not so effective something is. Then compare cities/states with and without gun control. If cities/states without gun control have less crimes, shooting, murders, etc.....then you have a better understanding whether gun control is effective, or not.

My point is that NY has the strictest gun laws in the country yet there's plenty of gun violence. Making it difficult to acquire self defense weapons isn't an effective deterrent and even worse penalizes law abiding citizens who could properly utilize them.

 

[BKF]

My point is that NY has the strictest gun laws in the country yet there's plenty of gun violence. Making it difficult to acquire self defense weapons isn't an effective deterrent and even worse penalizes law abiding citizens who could properly utilize them.

Once again how is NY compared to states without gun control. That is better determining factor in how effective gun control is.
One could say that if NY had lax gun laws that there would be much more gun violence.

Rank	State	Violent Crime Rate Per 100,000 Inhabitants
1	Alaska	804
2	New Mexico	703
3	Nevada	678
4	Tennessee	633
5	Louisiana	566
6	Arkansas	551
7	Alabama	532
8	Missouri	519
9	Delaware	509
10	South Carolina	502
11	Maryland	472
12	Arizona	470
13	Michigan	459
14	Oklahoma	450
15	California	445
16	Illinois	436
17	Texas	434
18	Florida	430
19	South Dakota	418
20	Indiana	405
21	Georgia	398
22	Kansas	380
23	Massachusetts	377
24	New York	376

 

[cli-terminator]

Once again how is NY compared to states without gun control. That is better determining factor in how effective gun control is.
One could say that if NY had lax gun laws that there would be much more gun violence.

Ever since I moved from NY to Raleigh nearly 6 years ago, I made sure to always stay on top of news going on back home. NC has much more lenient gun laws and restrictions than NY and I see more cases of shootings in the Bronx alone than I hear about for Raleigh, Durham and the other surrounding areas combined.

 

[ThaAnsa3]

Once again how is NY compared to states without gun control. That is better determining factor in how effective gun control is.
One could say that if NY had lax gun laws that there would be much more gun violence.

Rank	State	Violent Crime Rate Per 100,000 Inhabitants
1	Alaska	804
2	New Mexico	703
3	Nevada	678
4	Tennessee	633
5	Louisiana	566
6	Arkansas	551
7	Alabama	532
8	Missouri	519
9	Delaware	509
10	South Carolina	502
11	Maryland	472
12	Arizona	470
13	Michigan	459
14	Oklahoma	450
15	California	445
16	Illinois	436
17	Texas	434
18	Florida	430
19	South Dakota	418
20	Indiana	405
21	Georgia	398
22	Kansas	380
23	Massachusetts	377
24	New York	376

I would've thought IL would have been much higher simply because of Chicago. I also would have guessed FL because a) people are very stupid generally speaking and b) Jacksonville (the city, not team).

 

[BKF]

Ever since I moved from NY to Raleigh nearly 6 years ago, I made sure to always stay on top of news going on back home. NC has much more lenient gun laws and restrictions than NY and I see more cases of shootings in the Bronx alone than I hear about for Raleigh, Durham and the other surrounding areas combined.

Crime In America: States With The Most Murders

Rank	State	Homicide Rate (per 100,000)
1	Louisiana	11.4
2	Missouri	9.9
3	Maryland	8.1
4	New Mexico	8.0
5	Alabama	7.8
6	South Carolina	7.7
7	Tennessee	7.4
8	Arkansas	7.2
9	Illinois	6.9
10	Nevada	6.7
11	Indiana	6.5
12	Alaska	6.4
13	Georgia	6.1
14	Pennsylvania	6.1
15	North Carolina	6.0
16	Mississippi	5.7
17	Kentucky	5.5
18	Michigan	5.5
19	Florida	5.2
20	Oklahoma	5.2
21	Arizona	5.1
22	Delaware	5.0
23	Ohio	4.8
24	Texas	4.6
25	Virginia	4.6
26	California	4.4
27	Kansas	3.9
28	Colorado	3.7
29	West Virginia	3.7
30	Montana	3.2
31	New Jersey	3.2
32	Washington	3.1
33	Wisconsin	3.0
34	New York	2.9

 

[cli-terminator]

Crime In America: States With The Most Murders

Rank	State	Homicide Rate (per 100,000)
1	Louisiana	11.4
2	Missouri	9.9
3	Maryland	8.1
4	New Mexico	8.0
5	Alabama	7.8
6	South Carolina	7.7
7	Tennessee	7.4
8	Arkansas	7.2
9	Illinois	6.9
10	Nevada	6.7
11	Indiana	6.5
12	Alaska	6.4
13	Georgia	6.1
14	Pennsylvania	6.1
15	North Carolina	6.0
16	Mississippi	5.7
17	Kentucky	5.5
18	Michigan	5.5
19	Florida	5.2
20	Oklahoma	5.2
21	Arizona	5.1
22	Delaware	5.0
23	Ohio	4.8
24	Texas	4.6
25	Virginia	4.6
26	California	4.4
27	Kansas	3.9
28	Colorado	3.7
29	West Virginia	3.7
30	Montana	3.2
31	New Jersey	3.2
32	Washington	3.1
33	Wisconsin	3.0
34	New York	2.9

While impressive, I do believe the NY numbers are skewed by including the whole of NY state as opposed to just focusing on NYC. Once you are outside the limits of NYC, the gun control loosens up. Not by much but enough to where individuals can purchase a pistol. It's damn near impossible to purchase a pistol while living within the 5 boroughs and owning a rifle is very difficult as well.

 

[ThaAnsa3]

While impressive, I do believe the NY numbers are skewed by including the whole of NY state as opposed to just focusing on NYC. Once you are outside the limits of NYC, the gun control loosens up. Not by much but enough to where individuals can purchase a pistol. It's damn near impossible to purchase a pistol while living within the 5 boroughs and owning a rifle is very difficult as well.

This, I happen to know, is true. I considered moving back to Brooklyn after college, and I researched the gun laws. Unless you're a business owner in any of the five boroughs, you almost have no chance.

 

[BKF]

While impressive, I do believe the NY numbers are skewed by including the whole of NY state as opposed to just focusing on NYC. Once you are outside the limits of NYC, the gun control loosens up. Not by much but enough to where individuals can purchase a pistol. It's damn near impossible to purchase a pistol while living within the 5 boroughs and owning a rifle is very difficult as well.

C'mon now you're just making excuses. What I presented was hard facts and not anecdotals. Most time we believe something to be true but it isn't true.
So how do you account for California with the toughest gun control and NJ more than likely following behind it not being at the top but instead towards the bottom?

 

[dHustla]

I like the FN better than the Ruger. IMHO The ergonomics of the Ruger leave a lot to be desired. It's much thinner and flatter than the FN (similar to M&P Shield which I hate). The FN feels and shoots more refined, it eats both proprietary and American Eagle ammo. My Ruger choked on AE ammo. Both have very little discernible recoil, with the Ruger being a tad snappier. Almost everyone I know with the Ruger 5.7 likes it. I will say that currently I have seen a fair amount of 5.7 ammo on the otherwise empty shelves locally.

I'd recommend getting one or the other, to scratch that itch. It's like wanting a Desert Eagle, you won't be satisfied until you own one. If the Ruger was available prior to me purchasing the FN. I would have probably bought the Ruger, considering the lower price point. Both of them sit in the safe until someone asks me about one or the other, then I bring them out.

So no carrying or shooting the FN FiveseveN?

 

[DiGeneral]

So no carrying or shooting the FN FiveseveN?

No carrying, but I will shoot it from time to time. I have a specific few EDC's that I rotate.
Currently running my Archon Type B.

 

[cli-terminator]

This, I happen to know, is true. I considered moving back to Brooklyn after college, and I researched the gun laws. Unless you're a business owner in any of the five boroughs, you almost have no chance.

Exactly the point I'm trying to make. Unless you're current or former law enforcement, it's damn near impossible to own a firearm in the city.

C'mon now you're just making excuses. What I presented was hard facts and not anecdotals. Most time we believe something to be true but it isn't true.
So how do you account for California with the toughest gun control and NJ more than likely following behind it not being at the top but instead towards the bottom?

I'm not making any excuses. I don't know about the California gun laws other than their magazine limit but they can still own ARs there whereas ARs are banned in NY. I'm not disputing that gun control can work. What I am saying is that you can't put NYC into the same umbrella as the rest of NY state as NYC is pretty much a no gun ownership area. None of the allowances for firearms in NYS apply to NYC and that's what my issue is in regards to gun control.

 

[Mrboogieallnight]

I like the FN better than the Ruger. IMHO The ergonomics of the Ruger leave a lot to be desired. It's much thinner and flatter than the FN (similar to M&P Shield which I hate). The FN feels and shoots more refined, it eats both proprietary and American Eagle ammo. My Ruger choked on AE ammo. Both have very little discernible recoil, with the Ruger being a tad snappier. Almost everyone I know with the Ruger 5.7 likes it. I will say that currently I have seen a fair amount of 5.7 ammo on the otherwise empty shelves locally.

I'd recommend getting one or the other, to scratch that itch. It's like wanting a Desert Eagle, you won't be satisfied until you own one. If the Ruger was available prior to me purchasing the FN. I would have probably bought the Ruger, considering the lower price point. Both of them sit in the safe until someone asks me about one or the other, then I bring them out.

Cool, thanks

 

[cli-terminator]

Finally got my butt stock in from Fab Defense. Got my baby looking extra purty

 

[BKF]

Exactly the point I'm trying to make. Unless you're current or former law enforcement, it's damn near impossible to own a firearm in the city.


I'm not making any excuses. I don't know about the California gun laws other than their magazine limit but they can still own ARs there whereas ARs are banned in NY. I'm not disputing that gun control can work. What I am saying is that you can't put NYC into the same umbrella as the rest of NY state as NYC is pretty much a no gun ownership area. None of the allowances for firearms in NYS apply to NYC and that's what my issue is in regards to gun control.

Your point was (and you gave NYC as an example) gun control is ineffective because there are still gun crimes. My point was that, that doesn't determine if gun control is ineffective.
If it were, then all the strict gun control states (which would include the entire state of NY and not just NYC) would be at the top of the list for violent crimes/murder. The states with the least gun control would be at the bottom. Yet that's not the case.

You can argue that some of the gun laws are too restrictive but not that they are ineffective. Because the data says otherwise.

 

[cli-terminator]

Your point was (and you gave NYC as an example) gun control is ineffective because there are still gun crimes. My point was that, that doesn't determine if gun control is ineffective.
If it were, then all the strict gun control states (which would include the entire state of NY and not just NYC) would be at the top of the list for violent crimes/murder. The states with the least gun control would be at the bottom. Yet that's not the case.

You can argue that some of the gun laws are too restrictive but not that they are ineffective. Because the data says otherwise.

Essentially we were saying the same thing. I guess I didn't properly clarify what I meant by ineffective

 

[dHustla]

No carrying, but I will shoot it from time to time. I have a specific few EDC's that I rotate.
Currently running my Archon Type B.

I aint finno Google dat shit! You know thats some obscure shit. Sound some Matrix gun.
Star Trek shit.

Always gotta stunt on people
(I want a 5.7!)

 

[woodchuck]

Finally got my butt stock in from Fab Defense. Got my baby looking extra purty

Which S&W is this?

 

[1984]

I visited a friend in Alaska a couple of years ago. Met with his friend for a ride. I sat in the back seat. He had a pistol stuck in the seat back pouch, grip sticking out. Very very casual. So weird.

Once again how is NY compared to states without gun control. That is better determining factor in how effective gun control is.
One could say that if NY had lax gun laws that there would be much more gun violence.

Rank	State	Violent Crime Rate Per 100,000 Inhabitants
1	Alaska	804
2	New Mexico	703
3	Nevada	678
4	Tennessee	633
5	Louisiana	566
6	Arkansas	551
7	Alabama	532
8	Missouri	519
9	Delaware	509
10	South Carolina	502
11	Maryland	472
12	Arizona	470
13	Michigan	459
14	Oklahoma	450
15	California	445
16	Illinois	436
17	Texas	434
18	Florida	430
19	South Dakota	418
20	Indiana	405
21	Georgia	398
22	Kansas	380
23	Massachusetts	377
24	New York	376

 

[cli-terminator]

Which S&W is this?

M&P 15 Sport 2. It originally came with the Crimson Tactical red dot and a regular Magpul handguard. I upgraded the handguard with a full-length M-Lok, added Magpul front/rear iron sights, 3x zoom, vertical foregrip and replaced the butt stock with the Fab Defense stock I received today.

Here's how she originally looked

 

[DiGeneral]

I aint finno Google dat shit! You know thats some obscure shit. Sound some Matrix gun.
Star Trek shit.

Always gotta stunt on people
(I want a 5.7!)

 

[ThaAnsa3]

Just left the gun store... no 9mm ammo still. I almost walked out with the Canik TP9SF Elite Subcompact Optics Ready. But I'm determined NOT to buy another handgun. I NEED MORE AMMO!

 

[DiGeneral]

Just left the gun store... no 9mm ammo still. I almost walked out with the Canik TP9SF Elite Subcompact Optics Ready. But I'm determined NOT to buy another handgun. I NEED MORE AMMO!

ALL of my ammo suppliers are OOS on .9mm, .223/5.56, and even .22lr.
Shit is looking bleak, I even called up some reloaders, they are dead in the water too. No primers or powder, to be had...

 

[woodchuck]

Just left the gun store... no 9mm ammo still. I almost walked out with the Canik TP9SF Elite Subcompact Optics Ready. But I'm determined NOT to buy another handgun. I NEED MORE AMMO!

Same here, but @cli-terminator M&P15 is calling me!!!

 

[ThaAnsa3]

ALL of my ammo suppliers are OOS on .9mm, .223/5.56, and even .22lr.
Shit is looking bleak, I even called up some reloaders, they are dead in the water too. No primers or powder, to be had...

It's crucial out here, man! I may have to convince myself to buy some of the overpriced stuff online.

 

[woodchuck]

It's crucial out here, man! I may have to convince myself to buy some of the overpriced stuff online.

Sadly, yeah. Forcing us to cut down on range time.

 

[cli-terminator]

Same here, but @cli-terminator M&P15 is calling me!!!

Sorry fam. I won't post her anymore..............................at least not until I make another mod like swapping out the red dot with a scope or adding tactical lights

 

[cli-terminator]

Went to the range today hoping to try out a 40S&W or 45ACP but neither was available for rental so I tried out the Glock 19. I must say I am definitely not a fan of the grip. VP9 all day for me. Hell even my TP9SFX felt night and day better than the 19. The RSO was like "yeah it's almost like you gotta relearn how to shoot cuz of the way you gotta hold a Glock". So yeah y'all can keep them Glocks. I'm good

 

[BKF]

Went to the range today hoping to try out a 40S&W or 45ACP but neither was available for rental so I tried out the Glock 19. I must say I am definitely not a fan of the grip. VP9 all day for me. Hell even my TP9SFX felt night and day better than the 19. The RSO was like "yeah it's almost like you gotta relearn how to shoot cuz of the way you gotta hold a Glock". So yeah y'all can keep them Glocks. I'm good

The only Glock that felt good in my hand was the Glock 17L and it's a good shooter.

 

[woodchuck]

Went to the range today hoping to try out a 40S&W or 45ACP but neither was available for rental so I tried out the Glock 19. I must say I am definitely not a fan of the grip. VP9 all day for me. Hell even my TP9SFX felt night and day better than the 19. The RSO was like "yeah it's almost like you gotta relearn how to shoot cuz of the way you gotta hold a Glock". So yeah y'all can keep them Glocks. I'm good

I have both of those you went to try. I love the grip on both, but I like the grip on the .45 better. The .40 belongs to my wife, but she's cool with the grip.

 

[cli-terminator]

The only Glock that felt good in my hand was the Glock 17L and it's a good shooter.

My VP9 is by far the best gun I have that feels good in my hand. My Canik & Springfields don't hold a candle to it but none of them felt awkward. The G19 almost felt like it hurt my inner thumb trying to hold it let alone shoot.