damn there not going to let ortiz at least milk a couple title defenses to build his name first...this smells like they're cashing him out
The Berto fight was the cash in and he fucked it up and won.
Floyd Mayweather comes off vacation to face Vicious Victor Ortiz for $40 mill
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The Berto fight was the cash in and he fucked it up and won.
I don't know why you directed that at me. Merce questioned it and I think he was right to question it. Maybe you should explain yourself instead.
I'm surprised that you wrote this. I also remember Clottey and Margarito supposedly being threats and AT LEAST having a puncher's chance because of their perceived size and strength advantage.
Regardless, I'm not sure it's fair to say Ortiz is the livest of opponents compared to Pac's competition. I think Ortiz is a great pick and not an easy fight as I stated in my previous posts but if we want to talk shit about Ortiz and downplay him, it can be done. The Ortiz situation is similar to Cotto if you think about it. I don't really see how Ortiz is so much better than the Cotto that fought Pac. Ortiz got hot based off his last fight. Prior to that he's been getting thrown under the bus. Cotto was also supposedly on the slide but at least he had been a champ, was considered technically sound, and was generally not considered a quitter. Also, Cotto had already been a welter for a minute and was perceived to be larger and possibly stronger than Pac.
Ortiz is good, but although he is perceived to be big (by myself included), in reality the kid JUST got to welterweight, is just one fight removed from being boxing's official quitter, and only managed to beat the most vulnerable champ at 147 in Berto. The same Berto that can't deal with southpaws even if they're bums and for this reason went life and death with Collazo who even though his name is thrown around often has never proven to be anything but a C fighter.
Hold up..what did u just write? wait weren't you the same merece77 that called MY logic weak when i said MY FIRST CHOICE WOULD HAVE BEEN Khan? So what now your changing your story? OR is it your Logic is weaker than mine? But wait..you agree with me? so both our logic is weak oh wait maybe you just like quoting ME and not others here that said the same damn thing I said about Khan? Do YOU even know what your trying to say? Your confused is that it? How is it you just refered to my logic being weak. and that Both Bradley and Khan are coming off lackluster so-so performances." But THEN you come right back a few post later and say "Khan's the most talented dude in that division.I agree. Maybe he hasn't proven that he's the best yet, but as far as physical talent and potential, I'd go with Khan over the other guys. i almost wanna call you a CLOWN for that but i won't say anything this time.
I'm not going to come at you crazy, but Khan is a Jr. WW and he is probably the best at Jr. WW. Ortiz is a WW now and just beat what was considered the best WW besides Floyd and Pac. So there is a nuance to the discussion since you brought up Bradley, who is also a Jr. WW, as to who would be the best option down there.
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Dude, this is the most over used statement on the boxing threads!! It's easy to say this now, after Manny has dominated a fighter, hind site is always 20/20.... Before Manny fought Margarito, even though he was the favorite, there was talk about how much bigger Margarito was than Manny, etc. but once he dominated, he was washed up... Before he fought Clottey, there was talk that Clottey might give him trouble because of his style, defense, etc. once Manny dominated him, he was a shell and used up... When Manny dominated Shane, there were who threads set up to try to pick a part his performance, when in reality he dominated Shane worse than Floyd did, BUT, the excuse is, either Shane is washed up OR Floyd softened him up for Manny, etc. (Like Floyd is THAT type of fighter and puncher?!?!?
I know you are bugging... I'll admit that I'm a Clottey fan and when I would say dude had a good chance to beat Pac, I remembered getting countered time after time with how Clottey half-ass fights. Sure enough he did just that and I was
I don't even want to talk about Margarito cause ya'll nigga bout made me throw my laptop out a window hyping up that bum.
We all shitted on the choice of Mosley after Margarito, well not all of us, but we knew it was going to be a bullshit fight. I would say Pac did put on a weaker performance then Floyd because there were rounds were nothing really happened in the Pac fight. Yes, Floyd got wobbled but after that the fight was the break down of Shane round by round.
As far as Ortiz not being the best option at WW... Please tell us who is?
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funny how that works, huh? I really don't understand these cats. For years "Floyd's a bitch for fighting small guys" and now Floyd's a bitch for not picking the smaller guys???????????????
I don't even like Ortiz, but what the fuck do you guys want? Margarito was great for Pac, but Ortiz is shit?
I don't even like Ortiz, but what the fuck do you guys want? Margarito was great for Pac, but Ortiz is shit?
Honestly, I wouldn't have been mad if he picked Khan even though he's a jww simply because of his youth and size, dude is gonna end up at 147 in a year anyway. I think I might have had something to say if he'd chosen Bradley. Small guy with no power.
And I'm not even gonna comment on dudes comment about my Khan comment. Some niccas get emotional and make dumb ass statements and don't even try to back them up with anything
Great points but there were many on bgol and in the general media who gave both of them chances to win prior to the fights. And in terms of my speaking of hypotheticals, those negative arguments have been presented with hatton margarito and mosley concerning mannys wins so there is a track record here that exists.
Honestly, I wouldn't have been mad if he picked Khan even though he's a jww simply because of his youth and size, dude is gonna end up at 147 in a year anyway. I think I might have had something to say if he'd chosen Bradley. Small guy with no power.
And I'm not even gonna comment on dudes comment about my Khan comment. Some niccas get emotional and make dumb ass statements and don't even try to back them up with anything
Bradley would out work Floyd, though... according to Will Right.
Okay. You can find somebody to like anybody. But Clottey lost his last major fight and while he was bigger than Pac, he was also slower and hadn't done anything to earn such a high profile fight.
When the fight with Margs was announced, I didn't see anyone thinking he could win and he was coming off a loss in his last major fight (note I said "major"). Then there were some flip floppers but even then they couldn't fully commit. Throw in the catchweight with Margarito and anyone thinking he stood a chance just confused me even though they were very few.
You make a good argument for Cotto but he had just been devastated by Margarito and had a tough fight with Clottey so he was definitely damaged goods coming in. Cotto was a champ but Ortiz is a champ, so he's a got the advantage when compared to Miguel.
Again, and we've beaten this horse, Roach said he thought forcing Cotto to make 145 would negatively affect him. Ortiz didn't just win a fight, he won a hard fought fight where his opoponent was still fighting until the end.
He did just become a welter but he's been fighting at jr welter weighing 160 lbs, putting himself at a disadvantage as he fought better opposition. He should have went welter a while ago but he and his people were trying to game the system and were paying the price. He's a big welter and will probably end up as a jr middle by next year since that division is one of the deeper in boxing.
Honestly, I wouldn't have been mad if he picked Khan even though he's a jww simply because of his youth and size, dude is gonna end up at 147 in a year anyway. I think I might have had something to say if he'd chosen Bradley. Small guy with no power.
Cool.
I don't recall anyone thinking Margarito or Clottey having a shot but Alaskan has copped to wishing on a star with Clottey so it must have happened.
Dude,what were you thinking?
TJ
Hatton was, imo, Pacquiao's best win since he beat Ricky at his natural weight but he was the perfect guy to fight Manny, style wise.
Margarito was washed up and hasn't looked good since Mosley destroyed him. He didn't do anything to earn his big check except be Mexican and work for Top Rank.
And was there any excuse to take the Mosley fight? Floyd gets props for fighting Shane because people were still saying he was scared of Mosley but for Manny to fight him after that performance (and the Mora fight)was inexcusable.
Those are and always have been my positions on those fights.
I don't recall anyone thinking Margarito or Clottey having a shot but Alaskan has copped to wishing on a star with Clottey so it must have happened.
Dude,what were you thinking?
I was thinking Clottey was a solid fighter with pop and if a brawl broke out Pac might be on the end of a mean shot. It didn't happen like that...
I also was probably still pissed cause I thought he was robbed by Cotto and he is an underdog that I think has gotten the short of the stick even while it is valid that he gives up rounds for no reason. Either way, I had more of a hope than a real logical argument for Clottey winning and I was checked vigorously for it.
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I was thinking Clottey was a solid fighter with pop and if a brawl broke out Pac might be on the end of a mean shot. It didn't happen like that...
I also was probably still pissed cause I thought he was robbed by Cotto and he is an underdog that I think has gotten the short of the stick even while it is valid that he gives up rounds for no reason. Either way, I had more of a hope than a real logical argument for Clottey winning and I was checked vigorously for it.
See Dave, I told you!
But really, unfortunately these two are going to be attached at the hip for the remainder o their careers, and frankly I feel like both of them are beyond the point where they should get props for fighting best available, etc. They both are head and shoulders above anyone else in the division and should be called out on bullshit notice whenever they fight anyone but each other. Manny is using his past wars with Marquez to push this fight when in reality his advantages are very pronounced. Same thing with floyd beinng an opportunist when it comes to fighting Ortiz. I can see both of them having a great laugh once this is all said and done. Joking about how each of them pockted 100 mill at the expense of their blind folowers, keeping our interest while dangling the carrot of this ficticious fight in front of us. All the while cashing in on easy pay days...
See Dave, I told you!
I see. Alaskan, you're on probation. Probation from what? I don't know. Just know, you're on my list.
Clottey
.But really, unfortunately these two are going to be attached at the hip for the remainder o their careers, and frankly I feel like both of them are beyond the point where they should get props for fighting best available, etc. They both are head and shoulders above anyone else in the division and should be called out on bullshit notice whenever they fight anyone but each other. Manny is using his past wars with Marquez to push this fight when in reality his advantages are very pronounced. Same thing with floyd beinng an opportunist when it comes to fighting Ortiz. I can see both of them having a great laugh once this is all said and done. Joking about how each of them pockted 100 mill at the expense of their blind folowers, keeping our interest while dangling the carrot of this ficticious fight in front of us. All the while cashing in on easy pay days...
Cool.
I still think it will happen eventually but if they're fighting, I have fewer complaints, even if it's other guys. I just want them to fight decent opponents if they don't fight each other.
If they don't make that happen, with all the money at stake, I would be shocked.
Now I'm waiting for all the bgol boxing experts to come in here and refer to Alaskan as a 'Casual Boxing Fan' ! Those Dudes crack me up with that shit there!
These two clowns need to fight or else!?!? Do you realize we've spent damn near 2 years and about 1500 posts each debating this!?! Casual boxing fans.... you've got to love us!
These two clowns need to fight or else!?!? Do you realize we've spent damn near 2 years and about 1500 posts each debating this!?! Casual boxing fans.... you've got to love us!
I see. Alaskan, you're on probation. Probation from what? I don't know. Just know, you're on my list.
Clottey
Cool.
I still think it will happen eventually but if they're fighting, I have fewer complaints, even if it's other guys. I just want them to fight decent opponents if they don't fight each other.
If they don't make that happen, with all the money at stake, I would be shocked.
Honestly i don't blame either fighter for this fight not happening, I've been saying, like others here on the board that the culprit is Arum. But I will blame either of them for not taking the best possible fight out there and lately that has been Manny. Everyone was screaming for Floyd to fight Mosley and he did that and walked away, Manny has been fighting guys like Clottey, Margarito and Mosley - guys coming off losses or shitty performances. That "I fight who my promoter puts in front of me" shit is getting real old and even the pro-Manny crowd isn't buying it anymore. At least he's fighting Marquez even if it is a few years and a couple weight classes late. I'd rather Floyd and Manny fought each other but I'm not mad at either choice of opponent.
Your not gonna comment cuz you CAN'T without putting your shoe in your mouth and besides why would you when your side kick aka tage team partner Alaskanredman already put his cape on to comment on your behalf. We all can say whom we'd rather see this guy fight or that guy fight..it's all speculation and opinons untill the fight actually happens and alot of times MANY of you end up looking like or sounding like fools. But my bad..i forgot..all those that dissagree with you is either a fool or has weak logic. I NEVER said who'd be the BEST challange for dude OR who i thought was the BEST at any weight class.welter in this case what i SAID was I'D LIKE TO SEE HIM FIGHT Khan..i could have said i'd like to see him fight ANY given fighter IF thats what i'd rather see OK! it has nothing to do with emotions or any of your antics. I said i feel Bradly would out work Floyd based on his style of fighting...i also mentioned HIM BEING SMALLER..but his size doesn't have SHIT do do with what I'D PERFER TO SEE. I also know bradly has no real KO power. But to have someone say my logic is weak then come behind his own statement and C/S someone ELSE whom also said Khan would be their fighter of Choice to go against floyd is just clownish. Your logic is no better than any person in this thread when we are mostly commenting on what we FEEL might be the situation on any given night in the ring. But untill THEN anything YOU or ANYONE says in ref to how a fight might turn out OR who'd be a better opponent for whom ever is just heresay,speculation and or opinons.Honestly, I wouldn't have been mad if he picked Khan even though he's a jww simply because of his youth and size, dude is gonna end up at 147 in a year anyway. I think I might have had something to say if he'd chosen Bradley. Small guy with no power.
And I'm not even gonna comment on dudes comment about my Khan comment. Some niccas get emotional and make dumb ass statements and don't even try to back them up with anything
First off, what I said was IF HE WASN'T FIGHTING ORTIZ I'd rather see him fight Khan over Bradley. I didn't catch feelings or anything. Go back and read the thread. Plus I speaking on a comment POET made not you. Again go back and read the thread, quote it if you like.
How'd I miss this one? So who would be the vampire in question? Maybe referee Vic DRACUlich would be a good choice? "In case of repeated fouls I'm gonna have to take a pint away guys."
Again it's what i feel would happen IF they ever fought..NOT a fact yet but it's what i feel might happen. Do you have a problem with that or what? I never said HE WILL...i said i FEEL he would...there IS a difference. A lot of times i also feel you say some of the things you say strictly for ammusement value. See it's guys like you that feel the need to have others agreee with you.. guys like ME...i don't give a fuck who agrees or disagree..i will stand in with anyone in this thread and will say what i FEEL...now if i had to speak FACTS and i had NONE then i could understand the weak logic statements or the intertainment value that YOU always try to bring to threads of disscusion. It's cool tho keep being you. I'll continue being me.
I knew bradly was jr but was unsure about Khan THUS me asking Alaskan was Khan... i also said that i THOUGHT he was..i was looking or asking to be corrected if i wasn't right. When i responded to Alaskan i never stated who'd be the BEST...i said whom I'D like to see him fight...nothing more nothing less.
The reasson i directed this to you was because i felt your statement was directed at me..if it in fact was not then i apologize. But in order for me to apologize i first have to know whom you were addressing this statement to when you wrote"And I'm not even gonna comment on dudes comment about my Khan comment. Some niccas get emotional and make dumb ass statements and don't even try to back them up with anything"
Whatever you stated, Alaskan's question was who would (in your opinion) be the best choice at welterweight. I stated that the fact was that Khan and Bradley were not welterweights that they were juniors. I also said that of all the junior welters I felt Khan was the best and the best equipped to move up to 147 to fight Floyd - IF Floyd had been picking from the 140 crop. That's all I was saying, reading the thread again, I think you misunderstood my post(s).
I'm not looking for an apology. And my statement was directed at you. I was commenting on you calling me a clown when it was obvious you didn't even get what we were saying. You were confused, you made a statement that made no sense, I called you on it, you caught feelings. I don't argue with dudes who resort to name calling instead of quoting posts and coming with FACTS, hence my comment above highlighted in red.
Now I'm waiting for all the bgol boxing experts to come in here and refer to Alaskan as a 'Casual Boxing Fan' ! Those Dudes crack me up with that shit there!
These two clowns need to fight or else!?!? Do you realize we've spent damn near 2 years and about 1500 posts each debating this!?! Casual boxing fans.... you've got to love us!
I should be scolded for how that motherfucking Clottey, fought. Worst call I have ever made.
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I see. Alaskan, you're on probation. Probation from what? I don't know. Just know, you're on my list.
Clottey
I must be out of the co-sign crew
It's funny cause I tried to not come at you sideways, but you don't present yourself well. I didn't cape up for Merce... I was actually helping you out cause you didn't know what you were talking about and needed assistance figuring out what was going on.
As far as the speculation part. You are correct to a point, but why are you here cause it sounds like you think this is a pointless exercise. If not, what is the problem with explaining your position? I don't know about your opinions, but mine don't come out of thin air and even if I get clowned, I will state my reasoning behind my position to let people know were I'm coming from.
Also I remember the last time you came in here guns blazin... "Caping" for the Pacman/Mosley fight. Maybe you need to calm down cause you have little room to say people are sounding like fools.
As far as Khan... I asked you a simple question after you came in here co-signing TJervey to take shots at Floyd. Jervey still hasn't answered the question directly about why this is such a bad move. Now that you know more about the situation... who should Floyd be fighting?
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That's posible..in which case i stand corrected.
Even if you said WILL instead of FEEL, I don't see what the problem is. It's all opinions anyway, right? Why even care? Should weathermen start saying they "feel" like it's going to rain? Everyone knows they could be wrong. It doesn't mean they don't know the science of what they're talking about. Last night I tried Four Loko for the first time with my wife and we fucked like maniacs on crack. I am convinced that there might be cocaine or something else in that drink. Why did John Ruiz retire? I don't know.
Idk, dude seems to proud for that shit, but $$$$ talks. I just think dude has that Ghanaian fighter syndrome. Hide behind the shell, and because the punches are being picked off by my gloves, they didn't land. Ike Quartey was the same way. I remember when Fernando Vargas boxed circles on that dude he swore he won. They seem to have that same type of style, them dudes from Ghana. Good boxers, but they don't do enough to win, Clottey is world class skill-wise though imo.
Damn, this is why I don't comment on here much. Dudes be catching feelings. Jumping on each other over the slightest shit.
Anyways my bad mixing up the welterweight classes. I think Khan is the man at 140, period. Sure he is green, but it seems like a fight both cats could have made. At 147 it is manny, period. PBF just doesn't fight enough to warrant being considered the man. Also if he does beat Ortiz he can't claim anything except beating a fighter that everyone wrote off (cause he showed he lacked heart) and his most notable win was a upset against a suspect champion, berto.
Anyways my bad mixing up the welterweight classes. I think Khan is the man at 140, period. Sure he is green, but it seems like a fight both cats could have made. At 147 it is manny, period. PBF just doesn't fight enough to warrant being considered the man. Also if he does beat Ortiz he can't claim anything except beating a fighter that everyone wrote off (cause he showed he lacked heart) and his most notable win was a upset against a suspect champion, berto.
Honestly, I wouldn't have been mad if he picked Khan even though he's a jww simply because of his youth and size, dude is gonna end up at 147 in a year anyway. I think I might have had something to say if he'd chosen Bradley. Small guy with no power.
Oh yeah... I meant to ask you why you would have a problem with Bradley cause of his size. He has already moved up once and he also stated that he plans to move up to welter to get a fight with Pac or Floyd. Come on... Merce come over to the dark side and admit that his skill set/abilities are the determining factor not his size...
If he was bigger and would you think he was a better option than Khan or Ortiz?
BUT, as barren as 147 is, right now who is as dangerous or more dangerous that Manny has fought? Manny's fought re-treads at 147, big names, that's it, with the exception of Cotto but even Cotto was damaged goods. At least Floyd is fighting a young up and comer. And even though most of us, myself probably the loudest, questioned Ortiz heart after the Maidana fight, he moved up, fought a bigger bona-fide puncher in Berto his last fight, got dropped, got up and did his thing. Look, we could argue all day about this but just remember that when Floyd came back and whupped Mosley's ass last year, NO ONE of consequence was screaming that Manny was the best at welter or even p4p. It's been a seesaw for a while. Manny fights, looks great, he's the best, Floyd fights, looks great, then they say he's the best. Whether he's fighting or not I don't think there's any question, in my mind at least, who's the better fighter. But everybody has their preference.
