We can agree to disagree on Wilt. The NBA Changed rules to stop wilt, and got rid of rules to help Mike.
FLASHBACK THREAD 2007: At Kobe's present output can he overtake MJ as best player in the NBA by the end
- Thread starter geechiedan
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tobe's present output can he overtake jeff grayer?
jerry west played with elgin baylor, and always went home empty handed because of bill russell. well, not always. the hawks also sent the fakers home early a couple times too.
when the fakers added wilt chamberlain to play alongside jerry west and elgin baylor, they thought they had found the missing piece of the puzzle. but bill russell served that ass again. and then, of course, willis reed the next year.
in this case, i don't think you can use the "number of rings" argument for either jerry west or elgin baylor. they had the fakers in contention pretty much every damn season in the 1960's, and got shut out because they were unlucky enough to be facing the best in the business.
EDIT: for the young ones: when i say "in contention" i don't mean winning record or in the playoffs. i mean in the NBA FINALS. 7 out of 9 seasons. and went home empty handed every time. MUCH worse than the buffalo bills streak.
LordSinister said:Kobe has more rings than West, and West played with Baylor and Wilt. This takes me back to the Jordan Killer.
jerry west played with elgin baylor, and always went home empty handed because of bill russell. well, not always. the hawks also sent the fakers home early a couple times too.
when the fakers added wilt chamberlain to play alongside jerry west and elgin baylor, they thought they had found the missing piece of the puzzle. but bill russell served that ass again. and then, of course, willis reed the next year.
in this case, i don't think you can use the "number of rings" argument for either jerry west or elgin baylor. they had the fakers in contention pretty much every damn season in the 1960's, and got shut out because they were unlucky enough to be facing the best in the business.
EDIT: for the young ones: when i say "in contention" i don't mean winning record or in the playoffs. i mean in the NBA FINALS. 7 out of 9 seasons. and went home empty handed every time. MUCH worse than the buffalo bills streak.
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The question I wanna know is; does Kobe have a player in the league right now that can shut him down or gives him a lot of problems on a constant basis? Similar to how Joe Dumars used to give Michael a lot of fits, or when Arvydas Sabonis used to bug the hell out of Shaq?
Kobe is dammed if he does, damn when the Lakers lose. Right now, Kobe is the most skilled offensive player in the NBA.
He's better than: La Bronze, Dwayne Wayne, and Marshmellow Anthony. Gilbert Arenass (From my Alma Mater Grant High in San Fernando is number 7) T'Back, Wince Harder and the others are a step behind.
He's better than: La Bronze, Dwayne Wayne, and Marshmellow Anthony. Gilbert Arenass (From my Alma Mater Grant High in San Fernando is number 7) T'Back, Wince Harder and the others are a step behind.
tobe's present output can he overtake jeff grayer?
we'll have to agree to disagree, of course.
i think tobe is the most skilled ref baiter and streakiest euro chucker in the league.
one more thing: i'm sure several people will disagree with putting bill russell ahead of michael jordan. fair enough. though i would disagree, it's fair play to remember that the ENTIRE league only had 8 teams in it when bill russell came in as a rookie and ran shit. when michael jordan entered the league, there were 23 teams.
by the time he retired (as a champion), he'd played AND coached simultaneously three seasons (winning championships in 2 of those 3 years) and the league had almost doubled. it was only 14 teams. when michael jordan retired, there were 29 teams.
LordSinister said:
we'll have to agree to disagree, of course.
i think tobe is the most skilled ref baiter and streakiest euro chucker in the league.
one more thing: i'm sure several people will disagree with putting bill russell ahead of michael jordan. fair enough. though i would disagree, it's fair play to remember that the ENTIRE league only had 8 teams in it when bill russell came in as a rookie and ran shit. when michael jordan entered the league, there were 23 teams.
by the time he retired (as a champion), he'd played AND coached simultaneously three seasons (winning championships in 2 of those 3 years) and the league had almost doubled. it was only 14 teams. when michael jordan retired, there were 29 teams.
Why do I think the Lakers would be much better off WITHOUT Kwame Brown?
But Kobe will NEVER be Michael Jordan, and LeBron probably wont either. And LeBron is my nigga too.
Mike just set the bar too high that's all.
But Kobe will NEVER be Michael Jordan, and LeBron probably wont either. And LeBron is my nigga too.
Mike just set the bar too high that's all.
eewwll said:
Jordan has a better career scoring average by FAR.over 6 points more
Jordan has a better career rebounding average
Jordan has rookie of the year honors (kobe no)
Jordan has 6 Finals MVP honors (kobe none)
Jordan has 5 League MVP awards (kobe none)
Jordan has DEFENSIVE player of year honors (kobe none)
Jordan has 2 Olympic Gold Medals (kobe none)
Jordan increased his scoring to almost 34 points a game during playoffs
When Jordan was is first MVP, Jordan led the league in scoring averaging 35.0 ppg on 53.5% shooting. Kobe is a career 45 percent shooter.even worse in the playoffs
This can go on an on. The idea that these two players are on the same level or that Kobe is even approaching it is a huge MIRAGE created by uneducated and ill-informed sports fan. Like I said.. Kobe will be LUCKY to be included in the top 50 of all time.. LUCKY.
I dont agree.. and even he doesnt because he even claims that Jordan is the GOAT.. but I will listen to the Magic argument... Russell etc..they are legitimate claims.. but fucking Kobe Bryant.. I have to question if yall really understand the game of basketball with such ridiculous claims... All Kobe does is score points to the detriment of the success to his team.. His greatest claim to being a great player is scoring ability..and even on that he is a 24 points per game career scorer...and every big game someone brings up this argument.. he has YET to do the shit in a big game in the playoffs.. he cant even lead his team out of the first round of the playoffs.and most likely the will play the Mavericks or Suns first round... again..Lakers booted out of the first round... and his bitch as didnt even go out fighting last year..he went out watching... The greatest player in the game (sarcasm) attempts 1 shot..has zero points and zero assists in the second half of a serious decided game 7 in the first round.. get the fuck outta here
This is for everyone, but to comments made specifically by LordSin and FJP.....
First off, Jordan is better than Russell, Wilt, Magic and whoever else you want to throw in 'cause of the fact that Eewwll made up above...
The man was just sick! Yes Bill Russell is probably the greatest CENTER of all time and should be ranked amonst the top 5 ever of all time, but there's no way that you can compare Jordan with him because of position. The same goes for Wilt.
Cranrab made a very good point in comparing the number of teams Russell played against compared to the number Jordan played against...way more competition.
I can never understand why no one ever compares Jordan to Oscar Robertson...the man's overall game was ridiculous. I mean anyone to average a triple double in a whole season, play all positions and still get those type of stats plus wins deserves a comparison. However, he still doesn't get the GOAT more than Jordan. I'll keep saying it, stack all of Jordan's accomplishments up and you probably have a select few to compare with him (Magic, Bird, Robertson...?).
I think a comparison we should talk about more is Magic vs. Wade...even though Wade's career is still very young, dude has way more similarites to Magic (except for height) than Kobe does to Jordan....
I liken the Jordan/Kobe comparison to the Magic/LeBron comparison...yes they have physical similarities and styles of play, but past that there's no comparison. Neither of the latter of both comparisons has any of the accomplishments, let alone the killer instinct and heart of the forementioned. That may still be earned and learned, but I see LeBron getting that a lot quicker than Kobe.
You noticed I only mentioned Kobe thrice right????
Kobe is one of the most talented players of all-time but he also has one of the lowest b-ball iq's. I wouldn't take him over Isiah Thomas if I was starting a team so Magic, Bird, and Jordan are out of the question.
Like I said, Michael set the bar way to high fo Kobe, LeBron, or anybody else. Dude was light-years beyond from where Kobe is still trying to get to.ReactQ said:
So since kobe cant be compared to Mich....Could Shaq be better then WILT...the real goat of this shyt...or russell...?????
plus yall got to realize kobe doesnt have key parts like mich had....kobe is on a team full of losers who would have problems makin the d-league...
kobe is good yo mich is great yes but still in all mich couldve won all those rings witout the pippens the kerr's the paxson's the grant's
kobe got a team full of bums!!!!
plus yall got to realize kobe doesnt have key parts like mich had....kobe is on a team full of losers who would have problems makin the d-league...
kobe is good yo mich is great yes but still in all mich couldve won all those rings witout the pippens the kerr's the paxson's the grant's
kobe got a team full of bums!!!!
And Kwame Brown is the ringleader of said "bums".SYDNEYSTREETZ said:
This is a really dumb argument. Most of you guys are jordan dick ryders. Get off it already and recognize that Kobe is a great player. Quit the jordan comparisons, he's not in the league anymore. Jordan was and is the greatest until otherwise.... but to say Kobe's not a top player is just stupid. Wake up you assholes. 
tobe's present output can he overtake jeff grayer?
interesting observation...
isn't it funny how the losing streaks happened when the "bums" were not in the starting lineup?
and what a HUGE COINCIDENCE it must be that the scoring binge started when the "bums" returned to the starting lineup. when did the WINS start happening again?
who's really making who a better player?
SYDNEYSTREETZ said:
interesting observation...
isn't it funny how the losing streaks happened when the "bums" were not in the starting lineup?
and what a HUGE COINCIDENCE it must be that the scoring binge started when the "bums" returned to the starting lineup. when did the WINS start happening again?
who's really making who a better player?
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Kingblackman said:This is a really dumb argument. Most of you guys are jordan dick ryders. Get off it already and recognize that Kobe is a great player. Quit the jordan comparisons, he's not in the league anymore. Jordan was and is the greatest until otherwise.... but to say Kobe's not a top player is just stupid. Wake up you assholes.
See...this is what happens when dumbasses come into a threat at page 4.....NO ONE has been denying that KB24 isn't a top player; as a matter of fact the majority of the fam has said he's the best individual player in the L right now; but the topic was At Kobe's present output can he overtake MJ as best player in the NBA by the end and the majority believe NO........if you'd read the entire thread you'd see very rationale arguments as to why people think what they do.
As for quitting the Jordan comparisons, WHY.....the burden of being a great player is to be compared to other greats in the same field, be it sports, academics, business, etc. So if you think this is some argument that is just going to stop because you want it to, you might as well just go live in a cave.
OnSlaught said:This is for everyone, but to comments made specifically by LordSin and FJP.....
First off, Jordan is better than Russell, Wilt, Magic and whoever else you want to throw in 'cause of the fact that Eewwll made up above...
The man was just sick! Yes Bill Russell is probably the greatest CENTER of all time and should be ranked amonst the top 5 ever of all time, but there's no way that you can compare Jordan with him because of position. The same goes for Wilt.
Cranrab made a very good point in comparing the number of teams Russell played against compared to the number Jordan played against...way more competition.
You noticed I only mentioned Kobe thrice right????
Ummmm No. Less teams means more competition. Al Attles son is my homie. I have picked his fathers brain about this. There were no guaranteed contracts. Every time you came to camp, you had to fight for your spot on the team.
Expansion brings parity homie. Kill the Grizlies, Raptors, Hornets Kings, Magic etc and put Dwight Howard on the Lakers, Gasol and Bosch on the Knick's etc , and the quality of play goes up.
Right now there's a kid playing point for an expansion team, while the Lakers are stuck with Smush Parker. I wish the Lakers would draft Candace Parker, she got more heart than that pussy.
PS: On a side not, I have actually held wilts 100 point game ball. It's on a plaque that reads "To the man who did the right thing on the wrong night" because Attles had a perfect shooting night that day, but nobody remembers it.
Re: tobe's present output can he overtake jeff grayer?
Even a broken-clock is right twice a day.cranrab said:
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