FLASHBACK THREAD 2007: At Kobe's present output can he overtake MJ as best player in the NBA by the end

[SYDNEYSTREETZ]

Jordan shot 50% for his career. Guards aren't shoot 50% for a season nowadays including Kobe.

AINT NO WAY B...THAT NUCCA DUNKS DONT COUNT FOR HOW SHARP HIS J WAS...

WHOS THE BETTER DEFENDER? I WOULD SAY JORDAN

 

[SYDNEYSTREETZ]

Jordan shot 50% for his career. Guards aren't shoot 50% for a season nowadays including Kobe.

ok i looked it up u rite...but still kobe J is dead aim when that ninja really feels like ballin...come on b...

 

[godofwine]

Michael Jordan was a great player....the NBA machine built him to be what he became....he won titles (although I always said it was being in the right place at the right time). He won his titles as Magic, Bird, and the Pistons got old....there was no one else to really deal with but the Bulls. The greatest teams should be judged by who they played to win titles...The Old Lakers, Phx, Portland, Seattle and Utah (twice) isnt too impressive to me. In fact if Hugh Hollins doesnt make the "dumb call" against the Knicks....a Scottie Pippen led Bulls team while MJ was playing baseball wouldve been in the Finals. If Pippen doesnt evolve...Jordan wouldnt have rings. Period! Jordan never took the abuse Kobe takes for being a selfish player and believe me they were identical before Pippen stepped it up. The reason is the NBA thrived off of individuality and to this day they still do. Jordan was the best thing and the worst thing that ever happened to the NBA. The worst thing because now all kids growing up aspire to be "the man"...everybody wants to be "the highlight"...everybody wants to be "like Mike". This is why the NBA pretty much sucks....nice individuals but not too many solid teams.

The NBA, ESPN, Shoes, Commercials made Jordan. The rings validated him....the NBA already had you thinking he was the best there ever was before he had won his first ring. Stats are overated....if you shoot enough and have the green light along with the skills you can obtain stats. Kobe is a great player (the best in the game right now) and anyone who argues this is a hater and doesnt know basketball. His peers in the NBA said it...hands down he is a nightmare to guard....he is the most clutch...and his desire to compete and win is unmatched. Thats why anyone that says Kobe is selfish and blah blah blah is silly because Kobe wants to win more than anyone in the league and if passing to bums like Smush, Kwame, Sasha, and Radmonovich was the key to winning....he would but they dont produce so he has to shoot and shoot and shoot (last nights game he had to do it all for them to win).

All this being said I love Jordan...I love Kobe....but the best player ever to me is Magic Johnson. And if I have to explain to any of you why this is so....then its evident you dont have a clue. But I dont expect most of you to agree because most of you think Young Jeezy is better than Rakim.

I rebuke you lil niggas!

Truth right here. a couple points I don't cpmpletely agree with, but overall right on point

 

[The One215]

Re: tobe's present output: can he overtake jeff grayer?

If he continues to rape white bitches at the pace he presently is...then my answer is an emphatic no.

lollllllllllllll

 

[TREY-GA]

come on now...Kobe at his best is not as good as JORDAN, BIRD,or MAGIC at their best, he's not even in NBA all-time top 5 discussion ...if those 3 were playing with todays rules , they 'd have put up even crazier numbers...Jordan would legitimately average about 45 points or more in todays game...the best LAKERS teams with SHAQ/KOBE wouldn't have beaten JORDAN's Bulls, Bird's Celtics or MAGIC's Lakers....KOBE's got to go to another level to be even considered on Jordans level...I give him credit for being the most talented playing today though...here's something to think about , if I'm drafting for a team , I 'm taking Jordan, Magic , Bird, Duncan and even LeBron before Kobe....actually i think LeBron has a better chance to overtake Jordan than Kobe, but I doubt either will because there is too much money in the game for them to stay hungry or stay around long enuf

 

[SYDNEYSTREETZ]

Re: tobe's present output: can he overtake jeff grayer?

If he continues to rape white bitches at the pace he presently is...then my answer is an emphatic no.

u goin over board...can he live tho?

 

[Riggz]

Re: tobe's present output: can he overtake jeff grayer?

 

[blooo]

Naw you the silly nigga for not knowing what you read. Basically you brought nothing to convo but some bullshit. Go sit your young ass down somewhere. Instead of making a good point with good sense...you acted like a bitch tellin me to shut my silly ass up. What a fuckin clown!

Again..."I shall abuse you lil niggas....Im a ill nigga!"

you are convincingly(sp) trying to compare Kobe and Jordan and you claim to be an ole' head . Well Ole' head ,go sit down coz you don't know what you speaketh on..

 

[Blaq]

AINT NO WAY B...THAT NUCCA DUNKS DONT COUNT FOR HOW SHARP HIS J WAS...

WHOS THE BETTER DEFENDER? I WOULD SAY JORDAN

I know that shit is hard to believe. As much as he had to shoot & peeps charged him with being a ball-hog he still averaged 50% from the field. I am a big Kobe fan, I just don't think he's better than Jordan. He is the most Jordan-esque. Even Mike said so in an old article.

I can't for the life of me see why kats hate him with the passion they do. Like a jilted girlfriend or something. He's arrogant? Who gives a fuck? Dude is str8 cold, period. The best in the game right now.

 

[pmkr64]

the Bulls beat the Lakers without Worthy who got hurt in the Portland series, the Lakers would have got that 3 peat, I would like to see Kobe surrounded by good defensive players, guys who have heart, & guys who can make a play. MJ's crews where better

 

[SYDNEYSTREETZ]

He's arrogant? Who gives a fuck? Dude is str8 cold, period. The best in the game right now.

ill toss to that...for todays young boys hes the sick one...but yo kobe career could end in 3 years...this is his 11th yr...lol...time is comin to a halt...take them 3 rings and be happy he was as cold as he is comin from high school...

but like yoda would say

THERE IS ANOTHER ONE!!!!.....

 

[SYDNEYSTREETZ]

He's arrogant? Who gives a fuck? Dude is str8 cold, period. The best in the game right now.

ill toss to that...for todays young boys hes the sick one...but yo kobe career could end in 3 years...this is his 11th yr...lol...time is comin to a halt...take them 3 rings and be happy he was as cold comin from high school...SHAQ SHOULDVE STAYED...NUCCAS WILL NEVER BE AS GOOD AS THE OLD KATS ...THEM DAMN EGO'S GET IN THE WAY OF THE REAL PURPOSE OF DOIN SHYT IN THE FIRST PLACE

but like yoda would say

THERE IS ANOTHER ONE!!!!.....

 

[blooo]

ill toss to that...for todays young boys hes the sick one...but yo kobe career could end in 3 years...this is his 11th yr...lol...time is comin to a halt...take them 3 rings and be happy he was as cold as he is comin from high school...

but like yoda would say

THERE IS ANOTHER ONE!!!!.....

.

 

[Blaq]

the Bulls beat the Lakers without Worthy who got hurt in the Portland series, the Lakers would have got that 3 peat, I would like to see Kobe surrounded by good defensive players, guys who have heart, & guys who can make a play. MJ's crews where better

So let me get this. Had Worthy been playing, they would have beat the Bulls??? I laugh at you.

 

[Blaq]

ill toss to that...for todays young boys hes the sick one...but yo kobe career could end in 3 years...this is his 11th yr...lol...time is comin to a halt...take them 3 rings and be happy he was as cold as he is comin from high school...

He's already accomplished what many of the greats didn't who are now retired. Haters can't take that from him.

 

[cranrab]

Re: At tobe's present output can he overtake jeff grayer

the Bulls beat the Lakers without Worthy who got hurt in the Portland series, the Lakers would have got that 3 peat, I would like to see Kobe surrounded by good defensive players, guys who have heart, & guys who can make a play. MJ's crews where better

uh, like most fakers fans, you need to put down the smoke.

james worthy missed ONE (1) game of the playoffs the year they lost to the chicago bulls.

and it was 2 years before that when the fakers were contending for the three peat.



no wonder people have all these faulty conclusions about shit; they can't even accurately remember the TRUTH...

 

[Built4Life]

Best move ever!!!! Period!!!! Jordan post up fadeaway jumper. He made that shit like it was a layup, and it looked smoothe as hell.

 

[Blaq]

Re: At tobe's present output can he overtake jeff grayer

uh, like most fakers fans, you need to put down the smoke.

james worthy missed ONE (1) game of the playoffs the year they lost to the chicago bulls.

and it was 2 years before that when the fakers were contending for the three peat.



no wonder people have all these faulty conclusions about shit; they can't even accurately remember the TRUTH...

Giving him the benefit of the doubt he may mean that he was injured. Although a lot of players play with injury & also Scott was too scared to play. Some say he was injured.

 

[Gemini]

MJ/Kobe What's the Difference

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOGxyZQT1Sg
[FLASH]http://www.youtube.com/v/tOGxyZQT1Sg[/FLASH]

Mj & Kobe - Like Mike

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG5alMp-vTo

[FLASH]http://www.youtube.com/v/AG5alMp-vTo[/FLASH]
The Bounce Part 2: MJ & Kobe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQq3Uo1SBZ8
[FLASH]http://www.youtube.com/v/YQq3Uo1SBZ8[/FLASH]

Kobe vs M.J.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKApcWDrBP8
[FLASH]http://www.youtube.com/v/lKApcWDrBP8[/FLASH]

DWYANE WADE SHOWS YOU WHY YOU DONT COMPARE KOBE TO JORDAN

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCw7b1WzQl0
[FLASH]http://www.youtube.com/v/WCw7b1WzQl0[/FLASH]

 

[trekei]

kobe without shaq no rings, Mj with bill cartwright equals rings. Need we say how the world got stomped on by the real dream team? a bunch of old school players that knew how to play the game, those were mj's opponents. League is topsy turvy with first place teams with nearly under 500 records. WHen Mj was playing there was only one sorry ass team ,THat OTHER La team.

 

[Blu Diablo]

kobe is nasty b...he is definately marking himself as one of the greatest of the new kids..i was watchin that game..all i could think was that nucca "J" is dead aim...All those baskets was hittin the back of the rim...clear skills when a nucca can dead aim that bitch wit a 6'9 brotha jumpin in his face and he stills able to hit the back of the basket dead aim like is just sick...even jordan didnt really do that bak in the day...and who is to say jordan is the sick nucca ever to hold the rock...i was just checkin a stat the other nite bout iverson top 3 scores of all time..now kobe not goin to reach that but kobe is nasty b straight up..

kobe vs jordan

kobe= better J
kobe= quicker
jordan= pure leader
jordan= court awareness
tie= basketball moves


its a toss up ... who got more heart...JORDAN....my answer to that the utah finals...heart of a warrior...

Kobe didn't come in the league with that J.. neither did Mike.. but Mike developed his much much quicker. If anything Kobe just studied of lot of Mikes tapes...those youtubes show that. I'm not taking anything away from Kobe's talent, he's hands down the best in the game right now but he's not gonna challenge Mike for GOAT.

You also have to take into consideration that Mike made Pippen into a star..then they won rings...Kobe can't win without an already established star.

If MJ in his prime had Kobe's surrounding cast (during the ring years) it would be sick, Kobe with MJ's surrounding cast (also during ring years) just doesn't seem as daunting does it?

 

[hgbdark]

i grew up watching wilt,jerry west,kareem and some baaaaaaaad mofo's. i hated jordan but that sumbitch could go and kobe will never 'approach' his skills or legacy.

 

[pmkr64]

yo, worthy played a few minutes in the first game and missed the rest, look it up, im from LA, I bet you'll never see worthy in those finals highlights, thats when magic tried to win it with vlade divac & sam perkins

 

[Rocraider1]

I am a huge Jordan and Kobe fan. Don't sleep, the league and everyone else knows that Mike was cheatin on Juanita for years. She tried to leave him several times. So don't make Kobe out to be the biggest bad guy in the NBA. Unlike many of them brothas he admitted his weakness and is taking care of his kids.

Now....to the discussion....although it is difficult to compare who would do what in which era, it is a fact that the level of TALENT in the league has increased significantly since the "prime" Jordan Era. There were no 7 foot small forwards, weren't many point guards 6' 4" and taller. The speed of the game has increased and individual skill is through the roof (More spin moves, cross overs, higher vertical leaps, more specialist). I didn't want to get inot many specifics but you get the point for the sake of time.

Given this, Kobe Bryant has played in a significantly improved NBA. Mike raised the attractiveness and popularity of the league. Many players today model their game after Mike, but that does not mean that Mike will always be the greatest. Without the supporting cast Mike didnt get it done, much like Kobe. But Kobe night in and night out is facing better Talent than Mike face. The point to make is that he is consistently facing better Talent than mike ever did. Kobe game is more complete than Mike's. Better jumper with longer range, is a better on ball defender than mike (Mike was a great support defender), and handles the ball better (mike was good in the half court, but handle wasn't that great, he also palmed the ball better than anyone in league history with them huge hands).

We will never be able to test our comparisons, Kobe is the best and most complete player in the game now. The 90's belonged to Mike, but since 2000 Kobe Bryant is the APEX of gretaness in the league. Keep in Mind he has accomplished all of this at 28, and at 28 many thought Jordan would never materialized into greatness. IF you won't crown Kobe i understand, but dont keep the crown on Mike's head just because he was your childhood idol. I am willing to pass the torch, are you?

 

[Blaq]

I am a huge Jordan and Kobe fan. Don't sleep, the league and everyone else knows that Mike was cheatin on Juanita for years. She tried to leave him several times. So don't make Kobe out to be the biggest bad guy in the NBA. Unlike many of them brothas he admitted his weakness and is taking care of his kids.

Now....to the discussion....although it is difficult to compare who would do what in which era, it is a fact that the level of TALENT in the league has increased significantly since the "prime" Jordan Era. There were no 7 foot small forwards, weren't many point guards 6' 4" and taller. The speed of the game has increased and individual skill is through the roof (More spin moves, cross overs, higher vertical leaps, more specialist). I didn't want to get inot many specifics but you get the point for the sake of time.

Given this, Kobe Bryant has played in a significantly improved NBA. Mike raised the attractiveness and popularity of the league. Many players today model their game after Mike, but that does not mean that Mike will always be the greatest. Without the supporting cast Mike didnt get it done, much like Kobe. But Kobe night in and night out is facing better Talent than Mike face. The point to make is that he is consistently facing better Talent than mike ever did. Kobe game is more complete than Mike's. Better jumper with longer range, is a better on ball defender than mike (Mike was a great support defender), and handles the ball better (mike was good in the half court, but handle wasn't that great, he also palmed the ball better than anyone in league history with them huge hands).

We will never be able to test our comparisons, Kobe is the best and most complete player in the game now. The 90's belonged to Mike, but since 2000 Kobe Bryant is the APEX of gretaness in the league. Keep in Mind he has accomplished all of this at 28, and at 28 many thought Jordan would never materialized into greatness. IF you won't crown Kobe i understand, but dont keep the crown on Mike's head just because he was your childhood idol. I am willing to pass the torch, are you?

I respectfully disagree with your entire post. The NBA doesn't have better players than when Jordan played. I am assuming that you must be 30 or under? Just go back to 84 and look up the players Jordan faced throughout his career. He faced many of the greats who are now retired, along with the current stars like Kobe, A.I., Garnett, Duncan & Shaq. There is no way Kobe is playing in a better NBA.

Not to take anything away from him because I think he's the best in the league. I don't know if you saw Penny play in Orlando & Grant in Detroit, but I saw games where both of those kats were giving the "older" Bulls greats (Mike & Scottie) fits in a game or two. No one did that to Mike without him coming back to torch them in the next game. Ask Penny. Kobe is great but look up the stats and put them against Mike's. They won't hold up. Like I said. Mike shot 50% from the field over an entire career. What shooting guard in today's game will do that?

 

[gant]

no... but he is the best in the modern day NBA scene

 

[Blue-sky]

Now....to the discussion....although it is difficult to compare who would do what in which era, it is a fact that the level of TALENT in the league has increased significantly since the "prime" Jordan Era. There were no 7 foot small forwards, weren't many point guards 6' 4" and taller. The speed of the game has increased and individual skill is through the roof (More spin moves, cross overs, higher vertical leaps, more specialist). I didn't want to get inot many specifics but you get the point for the sake of time.

There is a larger amount of athletic players, guys who can jump high and are tall, but the skill level is lower than in the past.

(More spin moves, cross overs, higher vertical leaps, more specialist)

Yes. That is why U.S.A. has been getting it's butt kicked in international play.

Everybody wants to -- spin, cross-over, take all five defensive players to the hoop, etc. -- While not being able to hit an outside jumper.

 

[cranrab]

tobe's present output can he overtake jeff grayer?

yo, worthy played a few minutes in the first game and missed the rest, look it up, im from LA, I bet you'll never see worthy in those finals highlights, thats when magic tried to win it with vlade divac & sam perkins

again, please put down the smoke.

you are refererring to the 1991 NBA playoffs. james worthy played in ALL BUT ONE of the games (18 out of 19) the ENTIRE PLAYOFFS.

he averaged over 40 minutes per game the ENTIRE PLAYOFFS.

you are a great example of why people have such a distorted world view; you can't accurately recall the past.

 

[julian]

you are 100% correct on everything you said very well put

Michael Jordan was a great player....the NBA machine built him to be what he became....he won titles (although I always said it was being in the right place at the right time). He won his titles as Magic, Bird, and the Pistons got old....there was no one else to really deal with but the Bulls. The greatest teams should be judged by who they played to win titles...The Old Lakers, Phx, Portland, Seattle and Utah (twice) isnt too impressive to me. In fact if Hugh Hollins doesnt make the "dumb call" against the Knicks....a Scottie Pippen led Bulls team while MJ was playing baseball wouldve been in the Finals. If Pippen doesnt evolve...Jordan wouldnt have rings. Period! Jordan never took the abuse Kobe takes for being a selfish player and believe me they were identical before Pippen stepped it up. The reason is the NBA thrived off of individuality and to this day they still do. Jordan was the best thing and the worst thing that ever happened to the NBA. The worst thing because now all kids growing up aspire to be "the man"...everybody wants to be "the highlight"...everybody wants to be "like Mike". This is why the NBA pretty much sucks....nice individuals but not too many solid teams.

The NBA, ESPN, Shoes, Commercials made Jordan. The rings validated him....the NBA already had you thinking he was the best there ever was before he had won his first ring. Stats are overated....if you shoot enough and have the green light along with the skills you can obtain stats. Kobe is a great player (the best in the game right now) and anyone who argues this is a hater and doesnt know basketball. His peers in the NBA said it...hands down he is a nightmare to guard....he is the most clutch...and his desire to compete and win is unmatched. Thats why anyone that says Kobe is selfish and blah blah blah is silly because Kobe wants to win more than anyone in the league and if passing to bums like Smush, Kwame, Sasha, and Radmonovich was the key to winning....he would but they dont produce so he has to shoot and shoot and shoot (last nights game he had to do it all for them to win).

All this being said I love Jordan...I love Kobe....but the best player ever to me is Magic Johnson. And if I have to explain to any of you why this is so....then its evident you dont have a clue. But I dont expect most of you to agree because most of you think Young Jeezy is better than Rakim.

I rebuke you lil niggas!

 

[BigDaddyBuk]

but I doubt either will because there is too much money in the game for them to stay hungry or stay around long enuf

the saddest and most truthful comment on today's NBA.

 

[Prolifik]

OK Serious Question

I'm not a Kobe fan or really watch bball anymore period so this isn't saying I think anybody is better.

It's no doubt MJ was the greatest in his time, but if he was to just enter the game right now (young again) as a rookie same skill level and all that would he still be the greatest at end of his career?

Seems like the ratio of good player to wack players is higher then it was back in the day. Playing against bums a great player will be even better.

 

[wmjj47]

Never that!!! Kobe can't take the place of the greatest NBA player MJ!!! When you are playing ball and you make a move to the basket, you don't say "KOBE!!!"


You say, "JORDAN!!!" then you hit that jumpshot!!!

 

[hunchbak]

Never that!!! Kobe can't take the place of the greatest NBA player MJ!!! When you are playing ball and you make a move to the basket, you don't say "KOBE!!!"


You say, "JORDAN!!!" then you hit that jumpshot!!!

Yessir!

 

[Nobody]

kobe without shaq no rings, Mj with bill cartwright equals rings. Need we say how the world got stomped on by the real dream team? a bunch of old school players that knew how to play the game, those were mj's opponents. League is topsy turvy with first place teams with nearly under 500 records. WHen Mj was playing there was only one sorry ass team ,THat OTHER La team.

That's because Bill Cartwright was the number 2 option on the bulls right?

DUMBASS!

 

[LordSinister]

Then why are there bitch ass ninjas in the league with the name "Kobe Stopper?"



How dope must you be, when another cat is named after you?

The Kobe hate/worship extends to cats like GA who mutter "hibachi" when he shoots. These cats have Kobe on the brain.

Hell, cranrabs whole life is dedicated to hating on Kobe, the Lakers and California.