Yeah man... surprised how big he has looked in his latest fights..he looked noticebly larger than Mosely and then larger than Ortiz.... so it is not quito so far out for him to meet at 154 to fight Sergio
Canelo, Morales Eye Mayweather as Pacquiao Plays Out
- Thread starter Alaskanredman
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Yeah man... surprised how big he has looked in his latest fights..he looked noticebly larger than Mosely and then larger than Ortiz.... so it is not quito so far out for him to meet at 154 to fight Sergio
Dude is a bonified HoFer and all-time great. I think if he moved up and beat a prime Sergio (after beating Pacman), it would put him closer to the top 10 of all time..
Im just wouldnt be impressed by anymore weight at welterweight...i think he is just that damn good....too much for anyone in the division....Ive been convinced for a bit over a year now that he would walk through Pacman if they fight..
I can understand that.
However, I cant mention him with that class because of his resume. Everything else is just theory. I think he walks right through Pacman....but he doesnt get credit for it if the fight never happens. So his biggest knock will be resume and at this point, I dont even think you can put Floyd is the top 20 of all time. i really cant even put him above B-Hop at this point. if he clears out Pacman and another great fighter in their prime, I could though
That's why I said skill-wise. As far as his resume, it's nowhere near that of an Ali, Robinson or Duran. But he's as good a boxer, if not better, than any of those guys. I wouldn't consider him a truly great fighter either though.
I think Mayweather should definitely go to 154 to strengthen his legacy. IMO, his work at 147 was very poor and a waste of time. A lot of wasted years there. Floyd missed way too many guys in that division. Shit, he missed a lot of dudes at 140 too. 154 is very doable for Floyd. I think he would stop Kirkland, beat Margarito, beat Cotto, but I think he would be in tougher against Canelo than most think. I think he could lose to Sergio Martinez but at least he'd get credit for fighting the guy. Who cares if he loses one? This whole "I'm undefeated" thing is stopping him from taking challenging fights and being a more active fighter IMO. The guy fights once a year or once every two years and has never dominated his current division even though he has been there for a number of years now. That to me is very unimpressive behavior for a guy held in such high regard.
But the perception of his skill has to tie in with his competition. Like the Eew guy said, Floyd's resume is lacking compared to the other greats but his skills seem awesome. However, Floyd's skills can't be truly gauged because of his competition. For example, Ivan Robinson and Calvin Grove looked almost like Sugar Ray Robinson when they fought Arturo Gatti. Of course Floyd is superior to Ivan Robinson and his skills may be very well what they seem but it would be nice to see him apply those skills against greater so called challenges and a different variety of styles so that his skill level can be truly determined. For example, it would have been nice to know how he would have done against larger lanky pressure fighters like Margarito and Williams but we possibly may never know. However, the politically correct thing is to theorize that he would have won when in reality upsets happen in the ring all the time.
Sorta like Roy Jones.
oh I know...I wasnt disputing anything you said....just making that point... damn shame his legacy is going to be tarnished like that....but I cant feel any pity for him...he is a prize fighter who is fighting for money...I cant blame him.... but at the same time, he must understand his legacy will be affected by his weak resume and infrequent activity....sports are just too commercialized now... absurd that Arum is impeding this megafight and equally absurd (in my opinion) that a cat like Floyd possibly wont move up and take more challenging fights at 154...
I know this undefeated record means a lot to him and others..and that it is a high risk-low reward fight against someone like Sergio...and economically speaking, he is smart for avoiding such a fight... but Floyd is cheating the fans and himself by not pushing himself to the limit.... dude is too skilled to be fighting so infrequently
True on both.
And I get your point Merc because Zef is a true RJJ fanboi... no disrepect Buk because I am actually on your side in this particular argument.
But Floyd is so much a more technically skilled boxer than RJJ that it is a shame that he hasnt been in more challenging fights over the last 5-6 years (for whatever reason).
I am certainly not arguing that he has ducked anyone because he hasnt....but it doesnt change the fact that he hasnt really had any taken any fights where you really thought he could lose.
If he fought Sergio... I would still expect him to win but I could very easily see him losing because Sergio has one hitter-quitter power and wouldnt need to outbox floyd...which no one is going to do....
Floyd is light years ahead of ANY current boxer in terms of BOTH skills and IQ... on a whole different level.... even GREAT technical boxers like Marquez dont compare... Naazim Richardson tried to say that Marquez was the greatest technical fighter of this era...and Im a huge Marquez fan and thought he got robbed in the latest fight against Pacman.... but his IQ cost him that fight (regardless of what his corner said)... he lost that fight be giving away round 12 and he has a tendency of getting too aggressive unnecessarily (the knockdowns in the other fights against Pacman that lost him the fight on style points). Floyd would never make such critical mistakes.
the thing that separates Floyd is his IQ...to me..the only other fighter that compares is Bhop...but on boxing IQ, floyd >>>> by a country mile...and that is why I think he will walk through Pacman... after the shane mosley fight, I am convinced Pacman is an idiot
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Yup.
I never gave roy props until he fought ruiz. He spent to much time fighting chumps and ducking tarver and darius. But his move to heavyweight proved to me that he was more than an awesome talent.
If Floyd would have beaten Kostya Tzyzu and then dominated 147, then I would agree. It would have been similar to Jones defeating the number one supermiddle, James Toney, and then moving up to light heavyweight where he dominated the division almost missing no one. However, ever since he left 135, Floyd missed several guys and failed to dominate a single division. True or not?
motherfuckers kill me with this shit. I thought the heavy weight shit was huge waist of time. It was a notch in his belt that looks good in history books, but it was a pointless exercise to me. Ruiz is the bummiest of bum champions. He wasn't a boxer he was a professional cuddler and love tap artist. He wasn't better than a lot of "chumps" on Roy resume, just big and bummy. I don't understand this idea in some peoples minds that jumping weight classes means more than skills.
Well, if it was so easy, why haven't more great boxers done it? Some cats can do it, no matter how small they are they can keep going up and have success like Duran, Pacman, Mayweather, and Jones. Other really great fighters never jumped a class in their career like Marvin Hagler. Or jumped one or two before stopping, like Leonard or Robinson. Is it a big deal? Depending on who you beat, yes it is. I would never say it means more than skills, but it definitely is significant. Though it did mean more back in the days when jumping classes meant a 10lb-13lb difference. And when a guy starts his career at 154 and goes on to win the heavyweight crown, I don't care if he was fighting Buster Mathis Jr. for the title, it's an impressive physical feat.
I'm sorry motherfuckers kill you. But at the end of the day even though Ruiz was the weakest link in the heavyweight division. And he was one of 2 fighters at that time I wouldn't pay to see. He was still a 2 time heavyweight champ that somehow seemed to always be in the mix. Of course a shout out to that goes to Don King. But either way. RJJ dominated that fight with so much ease it was crazy. He took punches from John and kept going. For me it was a big deal. Compared to him beating full time postal workers, firemen, and security guards. Big John was a good win for RJJ. Sure he ducked fights with roy and an easy fight with Mike tyson. but at least he made history and it was pretty cool to watch. And for the record. If you think I hate PBF because I am able to be honest about his career from my viewpoint. Then you should have seen me with RJJ and his hbo sponsored bum of the month fights.
Sorry, I was under the impression that he was in the process of dominating 147lbs.
Roy was impressive at 168, though let's not act like he didn't leave fights on the table. And light heavyweight was a collection of part time cab drivers and construction workers, no great feat for someone as talented as him. What I do remember is that the majority of the time he fought, the public didn't know jack shit about his opponent, let alone even ever heard of them. Richard Hall, Glen Kelly, David Telesco, Lou Del Valle? Do you honestly believe these guys are any better than the Sharmba Mitchell's or Phillip N'Dou's on Floyd's resume?
1. Regarding the public not knowing the names of opponents, that's irrevelant. The public usually doesn't know the names of any boxers under 125lbs, over 160lbs and under 200lbs. That doesn't mean all those boxers are shit.
2. Floyd is not in any process of dominating 147lbs. The man has been there officially since 2005 and has fought only 4 bonafide welterweights. He has been at 147 for 6 YEARS and has only fought 4 welterweights. That's pitiful and I don't know how you can defend that.
3. What's worst, Jones fighting the unknown guys you mentioned or Mayweather failing to fight the well known guys like Paul Williams, Miguel Cotto, Antonio Margarito, Kermit Cintron, etc.? By the way, when these guys were hot, Mayweather coincidentally felt the need to retire.
4. You obviously started on Roy Jones in some lame attempt to irk me but Jones has no place in this discussion because we're talking about the level of skill that Mayweather has and supposedly Jones has no boxing skills. Since he has no skills the comparison isn't relevant and we should concentrate on Mayweather.
I wasn't trying to irk you, I was actually comparing the two, since they are each a very rare talent. But you seem to be under the impression that your opinion is really important to me if you think I typed all that shit just to get on your nerves.
No one said it in general is easy, but I personally was waiting a long time for the Jones/Hopkins rematch. Even RJJ/Toney rematch was possible. Also, of course Tarver's goofy ass gave him some trouble so that should have been on his plate before Tarver develop his secret weapon.... the "Oh shit I'm scared, don't look" punch. While it is difficult for most people, I knew Jones would dominate Ruiz much like I knew Pac would dominate Margarito. They were bigger but the bummiest was brighter than the star the 3 wiseman saw. If you were impressed by those wins... fine. Like you stated there are a lot ways to become great... I just prefer seeing them fight skilled fighters.
I loved part 4. Where he trying to dictate what this thread is about when I created this thread about possible opponents Floyd if Manny and them continue to flake before buk highjacked it with his usual routine. Also Zef said he was tired of talking about Floyd so why not talk about RJJ or any of the other threads about other boxers. Why is it that you have so much passion about this one fighter. It was actual a cool vibe back here when you guys were ghost after Manny, Roach and Arum expose their true colors even though you guys can't admit that blame shouldn't be laid at Floyd's feet. Anyway, carry on gentleman if HNIC is right about trolls, I guess we need guys to derail every debate... scratch that... every Floyd debate.
You of all people should shut the fuck up. You would literally get on your fat knees and suck Floyd Mayweather's cock for an autograph right in front of your toddler son. You literally had an orgasm and started making threads like crazy just because Manny Pacquiao, your lover's arch enemy, had a close fight with Juan Manuel Marquez. The way you were going about it one would think you were Mexican. You're just a mindless ghetto piece of shit and I would wipe the floor with your fat ass.
All what shit? It didn't seem like much to me.
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All that shit is unnecessary.
Fuck him and the whore he rode in on.
Alaska talking about being a troll is classic.
All that shit is unnecessary.
He does it cause his feelings are hurt. You should have never brought Roy into this because he can't handle it. The motherfucker think criticism of a boxer is a personal shot at him and then has the nerve to talk about me like I'm cheer leading for motherfuckers.
Zef is that the best you got. You have evolved at Manny's pace. Same shit and it isn't even good insults still. Years of plotting and you call me fat. Dick sucking is common theme from the old days. Oh I see adding the twist of adding my son. Thrown in the coded racism and yep it is basically the same shit you just throw the right more.
You still mad because I've made look like a fool over and over again, but it hurt you more when I ignored your cries for attention. Yet, my feelings aren't hurt over any of this. You can't debate in the arena of boxing so you jump off the deep end. Is it that bad? Must be the same in your personal life.
Why would a guy devote so much time with fictional articles about boxing and gay sex? I bet no one pays you any attention in your real life or they make fun of you so the internet is the only place you come alive. You can't beat me at talking boxing so you want to "wipe the floor with fat ass". Aw shucks... is that also living out what you can't have in real life over the internet. Tough guy. Just talk boxing or don't talk.
Matter of fact don't talk boxing go sabotage threads on the main forum. This should be more fuel for your internet feud that I could give two shits about. I can go back to ignoring your dumb shit. Let me guess what's next though, going after my kids. Have fun son. Throw in what ever mean thing you can come up with because not only do I know it won't be clever, but it is the internet... I could careless about you or anything your tough fingers can type.
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oh but you are... your boy embraces it. Why don't you...
The best way to settle this is a fight. Let's do it. Put that fat ass on the line if you know so much about fighting. You probably haven't been within 10 miles of a gym in your life and you dare to talk boxing to me. Your feelings are hurt and you care about me and that's why you can't keep my name out your mouth. I never bring you up first, it's always you starting shit so I think it's obvious you're the hater that's on my dick that wants to be like me. Following me all over BGOL like a little bitch. I'm not following you nigga, you just stay following me. Clown ass piece of shit, troll!
The best way to settle this is a fight. Let's do it. Put that fat ass on the line if you know so much about fighting. You probably haven't been within 10 miles of a gym in your life and you dare to talk boxing to me. Your feelings are hurt and you care about me and that's why you can't keep my name out your mouth. I never bring you up first, it's always you starting shit so I think it's obvious you're the hater that's on my dick that wants to be like me. Following me all over BGOL like a little bitch. I'm not following you nigga, you just stay following me. Clown ass piece of shit, troll!
I must say, threads don't degenerate like this until you pop your head up. Even with Buk, there's constant back and forth jawing - but at least it's about boxing. Some advice, all that shit your talking just makes you sound stupid, like you can't prove your point so you resort to insults. An older dude shouldn't be acting like that.
I must say, threads don't degenerate like this until you pop your head up. Even with Buk, there's constant back and forth jawing - but at least it's about boxing. Some advice, all that shit your talking just makes you sound stupid, like you can't prove your point so you resort to insults. An older dude shouldn't be acting like that.
Oh yeah? Fuck you, dipshit. Your mother wears combat boots!
I didn't think he looker larger, just more healthy. Floyd is naturally around 147-150 while those two guys are naturally 160+ so while they have to cut weight, Floyd doesn't very similar to De La Hoya at 154.
I don't think most people see him in the top 20 range either just because other guys have much better resumes. Everybody has knocks on them: low skill level, number of losses, or resume. Floyd's is the third one.
I don't it tarnishes his legacy at all. Cheating tarnishes resumes (Margarito will never recover from the padded glove debacle). Not having a great resume will just be the one negative working against him, something everyone has to one degree or another.
He never ducked tarver or darius. In fact, Michalczewski was ducking him. Roy was the top fighter in the world while Michalczewski was a relative unknown who rarely left Germany and seemed to always get the benefit of the doubt from local judges. Plus the dollar was more valuable than the Euro at the time so the onus was on Michalczewski, not Jones to make that fight.
Who the hell was Antonio Tarver to be ducked? When he was the top contender, he got a shot and lost. He only got a rematch because he was the first guy to win 3 rounds off Jones in years.
I have to strongly disagree. For all his shortcomings, Ruiz was a legitimate heavyweight champion who won his title in the ring (as opposed to it being given to him by a sanctioning body or beating another unranked heavyweight like Pacquiao won his jr middleweight title).
Boy, if Roy had made and won those fights with Holyfield and/or Tyson, they would be building a new wing on the Boxing HoF.
One thing about the idea that Floyd left a lot of fights on the table in different weight classes:
Is this being said with the understanding that until the De La Hoya fight, no one wanted to fight Mayweather. He was the ultimate high risk-low reward opponent out there. He wasn't even selling out the big halls in Las Vegas and that was with significant names like Corrales, Castillo, and Judah. Kostya Tsyzu didn't want to fight him. Arum was keeping him from Cotto and Margarito because he promoted all three. Mosley went on vacation instead of fighting him.
Don't revise history to make your point.
I also reject the idea he hasn't dominated the welterweight division. Shane Mosley was the top welterweight when they fought. Zab Judah was the top welterweight when they signed to fight and was still a champion when they fought. Carlos Baldomir was the guy who beat Judah and he was the top welter when they fought. Victor Ortiz, same. He didn't plow through the number 2,3,4 guys, he fought whoever was on top of the welterweight division. Even Hatton, not a top welter but still the WBA champion of the division and undefeated. He looked bad against Collazo but a lot of orthodox fighters look bad against southpaws (don't some of you still insist that Mayweathter is vulnerable to southpaws despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary?).
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I didn't think he looker larger, just more healthy. Floyd is naturally around 147-150 while those two guys are naturally 160+ so while they have to cut weight, Floyd doesn't very similar to De La Hoya at 154.
I don't think most people see him in the top 20 range either just because other guys have much better resumes. Everybody has knocks on them: low skill level, number of losses, or resume. Floyd's is the third one.
I don't it tarnishes his legacy at all. Cheating tarnishes resumes (Margarito will never recover from the padded glove debacle). Not having a great resume will just be the one negative working against him, something everyone has to one degree or another.
He never ducked tarver or darius. In fact, Michalczewski was ducking him. Roy was the top fighter in the world while Michalczewski was a relative unknown who rarely left Germany and seemed to always get the benefit of the doubt from local judges. Plus the dollar was more valuable than the Euro at the time so the onus was on Michalczewski, not Jones to make that fight.
Who the hell was Antonio Tarver to be ducked? When he was the top contender, he got a shot and lost. He only got a rematch because he was the first guy to win 3 rounds off Jones in years.
I have to strongly disagree. For all his shortcomings, Ruiz was a legitimate heavyweight champion who won his title in the ring (as opposed to it being given to him by a sanctioning body or beating another unranked heavyweight like Pacquiao won his jr middleweight title).
Boy, if Roy had made and won those fights with Holyfield and/or Tyson, they would be building a new wing on the Boxing HoF.
One thing about the idea that Floyd left a lot of fights on the table in different weight classes:
Is this being said with the understanding that until the De La Hoya fight, no one wanted to fight Mayweather. He was the ultimate high risk-low reward opponent out there. He wasn't even selling out the big halls in Las Vegas and that was with significant names like Corrales, Castillo, and Judah. Kostya Tsyzu didn't want to fight him. Arum was keeping him from Cotto and Margarito because he promoted all three. Mosley went on vacation instead of fighting him.
Don't revise history to make your point.
Interesting. I can't agrue. I totatly see how you feel this way about these subject. I agree with most. Some I disagree with. But those are cool cause we are all outsiders just talking about the sport. The ducking thing is hard to prove. Because it is more than just getting in the ring. The business part is the most difficult part. But we can only assume one way or another.
True. I wish more fighters would unabashedly duck guys like Riddick Bowe did Lennox Lewis but they don't. So I don't casually throw that word around. But when one fighter has such an overwhelming economic interest in making a fight and possibly take an easier fight for equal or even less money then I cast an incredibly critical eye. Dariusz Michalczewski was never going to fight anyone for the same money he could have made fighting Jones and no victory would mean more and yet he never was even remotely interested in fighting him outside of Germany.
I won't say Mosley ducked Mayweather, he just wanted to fight when the reward equaled the risk and when it was, they made the fight.