BGOL Christians help me with this one......

[Built4Life]

They deserve a lot of credit. Different era. Things evolve and we evolve so am i saying they were as smart as we are today? No I am saying they were incredibly smart for the time period in which humans had existed. Can we give them that? lol.
It's like saying well, I didn't know shit at 12 and I thought I was brilliant, compared to what I know today at 40. Well, yea no shit, you've had time to grow and learn but that 12 still counts. You were still smart.
Can we say you guys figured out how to do some good shit given the short amount of time you had to actually live?

We work in cycles. We're actually going through one right now. Shit we have today we couldn't even imagine having 10 years ago. It happens like that sometimes.

And as far as religion goes, I don't really subscribe to the new stories that are being told but i believe there is something hidden in them that resonates past the concept of it just being insecurity. The spirit is real imo it's just been horribly mismanaged for the past 6 or 700 years.

Well... I don't know what you mean by spiritual but if it is the normal concept then I beg to differ. The world would be different if it were true.
Humans create things, but bronze age people's knowledge was severely limited. You are using the fallacy of antiquity. Just because it is old that does not make it good or correct...
We are believing animals. It is easier to believe than to know because the later requires a lot more work and even given all the tools your brain will defer to emotion than reason. This is just who we are and it serves its purpose on an evolutionary scale but in today's world it is actually a hindrance to our growth.
So, religious stories make sense when you are ignorant about the world. They are good when people are ultimately afraid of dying and how to deal with the knowledge of your eventual death and everyone you love and know. Religion is perfect for that when most people are incapable of accepting that you will cease to exist.
There is nothing to it more than that but that is a hard sell. Magic is easier

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

Well... I don't know what you mean by spiritual but if it is the normal concept then I beg to differ. The world would be different if it were true.
Humans create things, but bronze age people's knowledge was severely limited. You are using the fallacy of antiquity. Just because it is old that does not make it good or correct...
We are believing animals. It is easier to believe than to know because the later requires a lot more work and even given all the tools your brain will defer to emotion than reason. This is just who we are and it serves its purpose on an evolutionary scale but in today's world it is actually a hindrance to our growth.
So, religious stories make sense when you are ignorant about the world. They are good when people are ultimately afraid of dying and how to deal with the knowledge of your eventual death and everyone you love and know. Religion is perfect for that when most people are incapable of accepting that you will cease to exist.
There is nothing to it more than that but that is a hard sell. Magic is easier

But they were good and correct though on some things. Just not as advanced as we are.

We agree on religion. I stand by my spirit concept though.

 

[Built4Life]

If you take things to their logical conclusion then "God" is ultimately evil. "God" is the ultimate dictator. God can punish with impunity. Is not responsible for its behavior. If Lucifer and the other Angels rebelled it was only against a dictator, a monster that makes the worst human monsters not seem like bad people

 

[Built4Life]

But they were good and correct though on some things. Just not as advanced as we are.

We agree on religion. I stand by my spirit concept though.

They are our predecessors... So we stand on their achievements.. I can't discredit that.
The idea of spirituality is a belief... It becomes a moot point. So, I will let it be.

 

[gene cisco]

There has to be something to religion. Past the cynical view of it. on a different level there just has to be because its the only logical explanation for why it controls so much of what people do.

The story might not be what you like but there is something to it.

There is. It helps to deal with death and the unknown. I'll never forget watching this documentary about gorillas. A baby gorilla died. The mother refused to leave the baby behind. It started to decay and the other gorillas started to look like It took some time, but she eventually left the baby behind. I thought to myself. If she could invent religion, she would have done so at that time.

It also doesn't help that dreams can seem so real. Ever had a dream about a dead loved one? Shit seems like they are right there then you wake up. If I was living in the hunter gatherer days(when religions started), I'd sure as hell believe it was spirits talking to me. Religion is the ultimate coping mechanism for beings who can grasp death.

 

[Eclipse99]

The bible is one big analogy. People interpret it to fit their own consciousness.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

They are our predecessors... So we stand on their achievements.. I can't discredit that.
The idea of spirituality is a belief... It becomes a moot point. So, I will let it be.

Well see I don't think it's a belief, I think the spirit is an actual thing. A thing we all have whether we want to admit it or not.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

There is. It helps to deal with death and the unknown. I'll never forget watching this documentary about gorillas. A baby gorilla died. The mother refused to leave the baby behind. It started to decay and the other gorillas started to look like It took some time, but she eventually left the baby behind. I thought to myself. If she could invent religion, she would have done so at that time.

It also doesn't help that dreams can seem so real. Ever had a dream about a dead loved one? Shit seems like they are right there then you wake up. If I was living in the hunter gatherer days(when religions started), I'd sure as hell believe it was spirits talking to me. Religion is the ultimate coping mechanism for beings who can grasp death.

I can agree with that.

 

[RoadRage]

There is. It helps to deal with death and the unknown. I'll never forget watching this documentary about gorillas. A baby gorilla died. The mother refused to leave the baby behind. It started to decay and the other gorillas started to look like It took some time, but she eventually left the baby behind. I thought to myself. If she could invent religion, she would have done so at that time.

It also doesn't help that dreams can seem so real. Ever had a dream about a dead loved one? Shit seems like they are right there then you wake up. If I was living in the hunter gatherer days(when religions started), I'd sure as hell believe it was spirits talking to me. Religion is the ultimate coping mechanism for beings who can grasp death.

Man I had a dream last year of my grand aunt and she gave me a personal message and the shit was clear as day, next morning I woke up to find out she had died...
Note: I didn't hear nothing from her for months mostly due to her now living in the south, and as far as I knew she was in good health....
Coincidence, perhaps, but I cannot recall ever dreaming of someone I know giving me a message, and for her to do it on the day she dies is beyond ordinary...

 

[RoadRage]

So far the worst thing the Devil did, according to the Bible was put the sense of betrayal in the heart of Judas and even that claim is iffy..

 

[Mello Mello]

if we go back to before the stories being defined were important, the metaphysical was accepted in with the practice of scientific and intellectual things.
which i think is why they were able to do so much shit, that was lost and we discovered 2k years later. pyramids being lined up with specific star constellations. scientists are like oh shit it is? people 2k ago are like oh shit it took yall 2k more years to discover this elementary shit? wait until you unlock the rest of this stuff we believed in.

Like what? Cats love to give bronze age people a lot of credit when they really didn't know anything compared to today. The only thing that hasn't changed is human psychology. And... Religion is just a manifestation of human frailty. It is not that one religion holds more weight, it is that humans are ultimately insecure and there is this need for the illusion of certainty which religion does provide but is the perfect tool for self deception which is why it is a human invention.

Wrong, the Bronze Age people knew a lot years before modern science. This is the point of big contention with a lot of people who argue against religion. People back then made bold claims about the word and the universe without the aid of modern science and were right.

For instance in the book of Isaiah they mention the earth being spherical at a time when science thought the world was flat. The bible also mentions the world being suspended in space at a time when people thought the world was held up on the backs of elephants. Or that the number of stars was impossible to calculate at a time when science thought there was only a few hundred. The bible speaks of blood being the source of life yet doctors of old thought blood letting was necessary to cure sickness. This is not to say the bible is a scientific book and should be held to the same scrutiny as a scientific book but to point out that religion and spirituality the metaphysical has always shaped man's world view. Like bills was saying I think they employed all things toward their reasoning. Not just one and dismiss the other. Now with the aid of modern science these once bold claims are confirmed.

Religion is the manifestation of the spirit of mankind, it is a critique of mankind, psychology and all and principles for how to navigate it. I don't think it was borne out of some insecurity or whatever but to make sense of what humans do and to create a system that produces the most good for the most people.

 

[Rythm]

If he created man knowing before hand that he would be flawed then why punish man? If he knew it and punished man anyway then that lends to a type of mental issue at the least. If he created man and did not know he would be flawed then he is not omnipotent.

"And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart." I don't think he knew man was going to be flawed, why would he have regrets? There are a few spots in the bible where God doesn't seem to know why certain things were happening. Maybe the "God" of the bible story was not supposed to be the "most high"

 

[ankhheru]

"And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart." I don't think he knew man was going to be flawed, why would he have regrets? There are a few spots in the bible where God doesn't seem to know why certain things were happening. Maybe the "God" of the bible story was not supposed to be the "most high"

If he didn't know man would be flawed then he should not be considered God.

 

[Mello Mello]

"And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart." I don't think he knew man was going to be flawed, why would he have regrets? There are a few spots in the bible where God doesn't seem to know why certain things were happening. Maybe the "God" of the bible story was not supposed to be the "most high"

I'd he didn't know man would be flawed then he should not be considered God.

Hmm.

You have to ask.
Why was God sorry or regretful?
Why was God grieved?
And why did he repent?

I don't think God was sorry for anything God did or didn't know, but that God had to change how he dealt with man. I mean he put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in Eden and told them not to touch it. So God had to know the capacity for man to sin. I think maybe God was disappointed because he had high expectations for man.

 

[water]

According to the Bible, name me the top five bad things the devil ever done.... Please don't say dumb shit like blaming the things that un-godly men did on the devil, because that would be just as dumb as blaming god for children getting molested by priest...

there is no devil

 

[ankhheru]

Hmm.

You have to ask.
Why was God sorry or regretful?
Why was God grieved?
And why did he repent?

I don't think God was sorry for anything God did or didn't know, but that God had to change how he dealt with man. I mean he put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in Eden and told them not to touch it. So God had to know the capacity for man to sin. I think maybe God was disappointed because he had high expectations for man.

again..If he is omnipotent then he would not have to guess or he would not be unaware. The first rule of being a creator God is to be omnipotent. All knowing. Which brings us back to if he was all knowing then why react like he did to a flawed creation knowing it would be flawed from jump?

 

[Mello Mello]

again..If he is omnipotent then he would not have to guess or he would not be unaware. The first rule of being a creator God is to be omnipotent. All knowing. Which brings us back to if he was all knowing then why react like he did to a flawed creation knowing it would be flawed from jump?

What is God guessing?

What is God unaware of?

Just because it grieved him doesn't make it flawed.

Does being omnipotent preclude you from feeling grief?

 

[Mello Mello]

Here's how I see it with the devil aka Satan.

Devil is some other shit added from tradition.

The word devil was more like describing a trickster or scandalous or conniving whatever.

Satan as he is in the bible is an accuser, influencer.

Satan is really more like a snitch wearing a wire who walks you into a DEA bust. He's pointing out how horrible mankind is to God to grieve God for thinking highly of man since Lucifer was the one who didn't think much of man in the first place and was jealous.

Satan wants to be in heaven again yet knows he can't come under the grace of God anymore so he continually encourages for mans downfall that man will continually corrupt himself under the eyes of God and incur Gods punishment. Man has the chance at redemption that Lucifer didn't have so Satan is a hater in that regard.

Maybe OP is saying the Devil aka Satan is mischaracterized but that depends on how you want to look at it. Satan may not be directly killing people as God did in the bible but that doesn't make him any less harmless.

 

[stretchwallz]

God created the devil so ...God being omnipresent created all sin and evil.

the devil is God's garbage man, cleaning up and being the scapegoat for God's mess

 

[ankhheru]

You don't grieve over anything that you did not see coming if your omnipotent. If you saw it coming and you still did nothing to correct it but yet dealt out punishment then that begs to ask what kind of mental sickness is the god of the bible dealing with? If you knew it was coming and sent your own son via rape of a married woman to correct it but yet still allowed your creation to sin......now your bordering on masochism.

 

[BrownTurd]

According to the Bible, name me the top five bad things the devil ever done.... Please don't say dumb shit like blaming the things that un-godly men did on the devil, because that would be just as dumb as blaming god for children getting molested by priest...

Not sure what you asking. Can you explain

 

[RoadRage]

there is no devil

Thats why I said according to the bible..

 

[water]

Thats why I said according to the bible..

who is this devil you speak of in the bible?

there is no devil in teh bible as some entity living in some eternity fire and all teh other bullshit we learned as a kid

the bible when referencing "devil" was never specific to be some dude

 

[RoadRage]

who is this devil you speak of in the bible?

there is no devil in teh bible as some entity living in some eternity fire and all teh other bullshit we learned as a kid

the bible when referencing "devil" was never specific to be some dude

The classical devil/Satan/or some say Lucifer..

 

[Entrepronegro]

He invades my pants when I'm standing behind Sister Jackson during devotion.

Lol

 

[Entrepronegro]

Interesting thread, I enjoyed reading all the views.

 

[meilmarc]

The devil is just the personification of "evil"

 

[SKATTA]

Ive asked many xtians these questions on several occasions.

there is no wiggle room for them.

religion or the belief of god as described in religious doctrines is not based on facts.
moreso on faith and belief.

two different things.

 

[oldirty]

The so called devil can't do shit that god doesn't allow it to do! The devil does god dirty work!
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

 

[D Town Redd]

God created the devil though, right?

He didn't create the DEVIL as the devil. He created LUCIFER... The light bearer. The highest of the Angels........

But he created him with FREE WILL....

Lucifer used that Free will for pride, usurpation, selfishness, sin, and EVIL (Ezekiel and Isaiah)

 

[IT IS WHAT IT IS]

The bible is one big analogy. People interpret it to fit their own consciousness.

This quote actually sums up and ends this thread. As for me, I believe the corrupt people who use religion (and religion and serving God are too different things), have actually created such a skewed view of what a relationship with God is. So many people gain strength, hope, etc. from said relationship, and are able as Gene said to better cope with things like Death, loss, financial issues, etc. There are those who are taken advantage of, and those are normally the ones who view a relationship with God strictly for personal gain, and a microwave quick fix for their financial and personal issues, just like those who were taken by Bernie Madoof, etc. Those instance should not be 'blamed' on God, as the whole premise of Christianity is free will, so if a person makes a certain choice, the effects of said choice are on them.

People want to reference 'all the people God killed', and frankly God didn't KILL anyone. When the flood happened, he had Noah, who went out for a long time, warning people of what was about to happened, even offered them refuge, those who listened and obeyed, were protected when the floods came. The same thing with Sodom and Gomorrah, etc. No different than todays world, you comment a heinous crime which can be punishable by death, you will very like be put to death. So nothing was 'random' and there was always a way out before the punishments. There are rules to everything in any form of life, and sometimes the punishments for breaking those rules are harsh...

When you say Christianity, the first and mostly only thing that comes to mind are: Preachers getting rich and robbing people out of their money....

There have been a lot of great dialog here, however the post I just quoted really makes any thread on Christianity a 2 post thread, the OP and this post...

 

[Ill Paragraph]

Peace,

1) He is the origin of Evil... The world was perfect when created by God. But through lies, the Devil was able to pervert God's gift to man of Free will into the tendency to sin. (Genesis Chapter 3)

2) He rebelled against God and took 1/3 of the angels with him when he fell (Revelation)

3) He was created PERFECT but used his free will to want to TAKE the worship that is God's by right alone (Ezekiel)

4) He tempts humanity to stumble (Matthew)

5) He is constantly looking to trip up humans because Jesus' death at the Cross means Satan's game is over. (Peter)

More info on the Father of Lies can be found here: http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/who_is_satan.html

at my man D Town in here fighting the good fight. You know how this is going to go, bruh.

 

[Ill Paragraph]

Peace,

This is one question that I've always had: Imperfection cannot spring from perfection, so how does Satan (and humans) spring from a perfect God? The concept of free will doesn't even begin to explain that.

 

[D Town Redd]

Peace,

This is one question that I've always had: Imperfection cannot spring from perfection, so how does Satan (and humans) spring from a perfect God? The concept of free will doesn't even begin to explain that.

Free will springs from a perfect God
The essence of God is LOVE
You can't LOVE without free will... God gave man and angels free will so they can CHOOSE to reflect his essence... LOVE or not.

Challenges are either sent by God or allowed by God... TRUE... But all take place because He shows his sovereignty.

If He created you, he can destroy you and it won't be a crime. It won't mean He's evil or corrupt. That's just a perogative that comes from being the Creator.

The Devil can't accept this. God must EXIST for Him... not the other way around. So he chose what he chose and he continues to deceive humans into using their free choice to stumble.

You see, God showed humanity His true character at the cross in Calvary. He Won. The Devil knows this... That's why he will try to deceive as many into the lake of fire as he can while there is still time.

Don't be fooled by the Devil. He hides behind logic because he knows ultimately logic is self-focused. There's a tempting allure to the objectivity of logic and reason. That's why he loves painting FAITH as weakness or evil itself.

 

[Ill Paragraph]

Peace,

Free will springs from a perfect God
The essence of God is LOVE
You can't LOVE without free will... God gave man and angels free will so they can CHOOSE to reflect his essence... LOVE or not.

Challenges are either sent by God or allowed by God... TRUE... But all take place because He shows his sovereignty.

If He created you, he can destroy you and it won't be a crime. It won't mean He's evil or corrupt. That's just a perogative that comes from being the Creator.

The Devil can't accept this. God must EXIST for Him... not the other way around. So he chose what he chose and he continues to deceive humans into using their free choice to stumble.

You see, God showed humanity His true character at the cross in Calvary. He Won. The Devil knows this... That's why he will try to deceive as many into the lake of fire as he can while there is still time.

Don't be fooled by the Devil. He hides behind logic because he knows ultimately logic is self-focused. There's a tempting allure to the objectivity of logic and reason. That's why he loves painting FAITH as weakness or evil itself.

But free will needs to be governed by logic, choice, and knowledge. God didn't want his creations to be knowledgeable. He intentionally punished them because they acquired knowledge. In fact, according to the story, he took two innocent people, left them alone with the most devious tempter in existence (another failed creation of his), and punished them when they made one bad decision. Where is the perfection in this horrible judgment?