who would win right now in a war, china or the U.S ?

World War III


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BenQ

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New china missile could shift balance of power


China's "carrier-killer" may spell the end of America's invincibility on the high seas

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ABOARD THE USS GEORGE WASHINGTON – Nothing projects U.S. global air and sea power more vividly than supercarriers. Bristling with fighter jets that can reach deep into even landlocked trouble zones, America's virtually invincible carrier fleet has long enforced its dominance of the high seas.

China may soon put an end to that.

U.S. naval planners are scrambling to deal with what analysts say is a game-changing weapon being developed by China — an unprecedented carrier-killing missile called the Dong Feng 21D that could be launched from land with enough accuracy to penetrate the defenses of even the most advanced moving aircraft carrier at a distance of more than 1,500 kilometers (900 miles).

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EDITOR'S NOTE — The USS George Washington supercarrier recently deployed off North Korea in a high-profile show of U.S. sea power. AP Tokyo News Editor Eric Talmadge was aboard the carrier, and filed this report.

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Analysts say final testing of the missile could come as soon as the end of this year, though questions remain about how fast China will be able to perfect its accuracy to the level needed to threaten a moving carrier at sea.

The weapon, a version of which was displayed last year in a Chinese military parade, could revolutionize China's role in the Pacific balance of power, seriously weakening Washington's ability to intervene in any potential conflict over Taiwan or North Korea. It could also deny U.S. ships safe access to international waters near China's 11,200-mile (18,000-kilometer) -long coastline.

While a nuclear bomb could theoretically sink a carrier, assuming its user was willing to raise the stakes to atomic levels, the conventionally-armed Dong Feng 21D's uniqueness is in its ability to hit a powerfully defended moving target with pin-point precision.

The Chinese Defense Ministry did not immediately respond to the AP's request for a comment.

Funded by annual double-digit increases in the defense budget for almost every year of the past two decades, the Chinese navy has become Asia's largest and has expanded beyond its traditional mission of retaking Taiwan to push its sphere of influence deeper into the Pacific and protect vital maritime trade routes.

"The Navy has long had to fear carrier-killing capabilities," said Patrick Cronin, senior director of the Asia-Pacific Security Program at the nonpartisan, Washington-based Center for a New American Security. "The emerging Chinese antiship missile capability, and in particular the DF 21D, represents the first post-Cold War capability that is both potentially capable of stopping our naval power projection and deliberately designed for that purpose."

Setting the stage for a possible conflict, Beijing has grown increasingly vocal in its demands for the U.S. to stay away from the wide swaths of ocean — covering much of the Yellow, East and South China seas — where it claims exclusivity.

It strongly opposed plans to hold U.S.-South Korean war games in the Yellow Sea off the northeastern Chinese coast, saying the participation of the USS George Washington supercarrier, with its 1,092-foot (333-meter) flight deck and 6,250 personnel, would be a provocation because it put Beijing within striking range of U.S. F-18 warplanes.

The carrier instead took part in maneuvers held farther away in the Sea of Japan.

U.S. officials deny Chinese pressure kept it away, and say they will not be told by Beijing where they can operate.

"We reserve the right to exercise in international waters anywhere in the world," Rear Adm. Daniel Cloyd, who headed the U.S. side of the exercises, said aboard the carrier during the maneuvers, which ended last week.

But the new missile, if able to evade the defenses of a carrier and of the vessels sailing with it, could undermine that policy.

"China can reach out and hit the U.S. well before the U.S. can get close enough to the mainland to hit back," said Toshi Yoshihara, an associate professor at the U.S. Naval War College. He said U.S. ships have only twice been that vulnerable — against Japan in World War II and against Soviet bombers in the Cold War.

Carrier-killing missiles "could have an enduring psychological effect on U.S. policymakers," he e-mailed to The AP. "It underscores more broadly that the U.S. Navy no longer rules the waves as it has since the end of World War II. The stark reality is that sea control cannot be taken for granted anymore."

Yoshihara said the weapon is causing considerable consternation in Washington, though — with attention focused on land wars in Afghanistan and Iraq — its implications haven't been widely discussed in public.

Analysts note that while much has been made of China's efforts to ready a carrier fleet of its own, it would likely take decades to catch U.S. carrier crews' level of expertise, training and experience.

But Beijing does not need to match the U.S. carrier for carrier. The Dong Feng 21D, smarter, and vastly cheaper, could successfully attack a U.S. carrier, or at least deter it from getting too close.

U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates warned of the threat in a speech last September at the Air Force Association Convention.

"When considering the military-modernization programs of countries like China, we should be concerned less with their potential ability to challenge the U.S. symmetrically — fighter to fighter or ship to ship — and more with their ability to disrupt our freedom of movement and narrow our strategic options," he said.

Gates said China's investments in cyber and anti-satellite warfare, anti-air and anti-ship weaponry, along with ballistic missiles, "could threaten America's primary way to project power" through its forward air bases and carrier strike groups.

The Pentagon has been worried for years about China getting an anti-ship ballistic missile. The Pentagon considers such a missile an "anti-access," weapon, meaning that it could deny others access to certain areas.

The Air Force's top surveillance and intelligence officer, Lt. Gen. David Deptula, told reporters this week that China's effort to increase anti-access capability is part of a worrisome trend.

He did not single out the DF 21D, but said: "While we might not fight the Chinese, we may end up in situations where we'll certainly be opposing the equipment that they build and sell around the world."

Questions remain over when — and if — China will perfect the technology; hitting a moving carrier is no mean feat, requiring state-of-the-art guidance systems, and some experts believe it will take China a decade or so to field a reliable threat. Others, however, say final tests of the missile could come in the next year or two.

Former Navy commander James Kraska, a professor of international law and sea power at the U.S. Naval War College, recently wrote a controversial article in the magazine Orbis outlining a hypothetical scenario set just five years from now in which a Deng Feng 21D missile with a penetrator warhead sinks the USS George Washington.

That would usher in a "new epoch of international order in which Beijing emerges to displace the United States."

While China's Defense Ministry never comments on new weapons before they become operational, the DF 21D — which would travel at 10 times the speed of sound and carry conventional payloads — has been much discussed by military buffs online.

A pseudonymous article posted on Xinhuanet, website of China's official news agency, imagines the U.S. dispatching the George Washington to aid Taiwan against a Chinese attack.

The Chinese would respond with three salvos of DF 21D, the first of which would pierce the hull, start fires and shut down flight operations, the article says. The second would knock out its engines and be accompanied by air attacks. The third wave, the article says, would "send the George Washington to the bottom of the ocean."

Comments on the article were mostly positive.

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No matter what our government says, we still have nukes ready to fire. When you have a billion people compressed in a limited area like China, it is rather easy to take out a couple million. And as they said, we will probably never fight China, but someone that buys that weapon from China might think they the big bully on the block and use it on one of our carriers.
 
who would win?

China = elites

U.S. = elites

Losers?

China = peasant class

U.S. = peasant class (pretty good chance that most of us are in this category)
 
that's a nice new missle the lil fella's got... still not knowing its full capabilities present a somewhat threat.... but what folks have to realize is the US NAVY Carrier fleet isn't just a carrier... that big fucker is protected by a 5mile radius of other ships designed to protect the carrier... they best have a plenty of those missles in stock before firing one off!!!!!
 
who would win?

China = elites

U.S. = elites

Losers?

China = peasant class

U.S. = peasant class (pretty good chance that most of us are in this category)

Yes, since the top 1% (basically NOBODY on this board) owns or runs 98% of all the shit, 99% of us would lose horribly.
 
USA, hands down.

the level of evil that the USA has in-secret can't be comprehended by you guys.

trust me... we have biological shit ready to wreak havoc in heavily populated areas-causing damage on a level never seen before in the history of this planet.

no one wins a nuclear war, and the rest of the world dies from the fallout; so that won't happen.

for those who believe there's strength in numbers... here's a message for you:

china will "fall" from within. their population base demands a certain amount of food and jobs. without either one, that HUUUUUUGE population base goes rank. IOW, the chinese gov't will use their weaponry within BEFORE they do externally.

just keep living. you will see.
 
US no question!

China is the kid with the big wallet and a revolver..........:smh:

the US owes everyone money but walks around with a minigun, a couple sniper rifles, a few desert eagles and a few deadly gas grenades.......:itsawrap:

that war would be over before it began.....:smh:
5vdg5x.gif
 
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Well, based on past supposed enemies of the US, I guess it's time for another boogeyman. The US waged a Cold War for decades until documents revealed that the USSR was never a economic nor military threat to the US.
 
china will "fall" from within. their population base demands a certain amount of food and jobs. without either one, that HUUUUUUGE population base goes rank.

People say this in the USA to convince themselves that China won't surpass the US and become a Superpower, but China's not going to implode, they're not Japan.

The USA is going to have to get used to being in 2nd place.
 
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America may lose a war, but mark my words, those white boys would blow up the world ten times over before they give up a inch of their land and power.
 
US has dropped bombs on yellow folk before....they would do it again.
 
Read Revelations.

With the US Military spread thin all over the world, China would mop the floor with the US.

Most folks are right though, if it ever got to that 2 assholes would just press "that button" and we would all disappear.
 
And exactly where I this war being held? If it's on us soil you can bet that they wouldn't win because our citizens carry guns. We have more guns in america then the whole world combined last I remember hearing. If you think fighting in iraq is hard for us as americans then fighting us at our home court would be hard as well. Now if it's in china they win easily. I don't think any nations would align themselves with us unless it's spies, tech, money, setting up shop.
 

Very true... They will always be two bullies which agree to disagree.

I wondered when a missile like this would be developed. The iron clad ship destroyed the wooden warship, the aircraft destroyed the warship. The war between Japan and America confirmed the aircraft carriers as king of the ocean, but I always knew that that paradigm would be tested by technology, specifically missile technology.

The US has 15 aircraft carriers... In a conventional war, if the Chinks were able to disable these with pinpoint accurate, satellite guided missiles, they could neutralise the US in any sphere of war...

Fortunately or otherwise, a conflict between the two nations would quickly escalate to the exchange of nuclear strikes.... a situation in which neither is likely emerge with a victory of significance. Nukes are the great equaliser. If Pakistan develops the ability to deliver missiles intercontinentally, it essentially becomes equal to the US in military strength.

We need a nuclear war between India and Pakistan. Once the two have fought and killed 600 million of each other, all countries in the world will be so appalled that all nukes in the world will be banished...
 
c/s delete thread:smh:


People say this in the USA to convince themselves that China won't surpass the US and become a Superpower, but China's not going to implode, they're not Japan.

The USA is going to have to get used to be in 2nd place.
how many military bases does china have on foreign soil.
 
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really nothing to do with this topic but i really miss Tupac



but china is a really scrapy fighter they will only consider themselves loser if every single chinaman is dead... its is built into there history the love of the nation and even though many poor people will die the will just keep coming until the US falls

Che said its not how many soliders or guns you have if the men who are fighting don't know what they are fighting for,
China has the most nationalistic people in the world and the largest population, so watch the fuck out!!!
 
:hmm:During the final stages of World War II in 1945, the United States conducted two atomic bombings against the cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in Japan, not china.



I'm sorry folks, but China>>>>>>>>USA

Bullshit.... The US conventional army is stronger than the next 5 strongest conventional armies put together. The US can defeat China, Russia, France, England and Germany on the same battlefield at the same time, if no nukes are used.

The US army has such an advantage in conventional weapons that the other countries would have no chance whatsoever. The English were for a long time the number 2 military power (after the collapse of the Soviets), but the disparity in technology between the Yanks and Brits was laid bare in Iraq whre the English paraded antiquated technology, and stripped desert-boots from dead Iraqis for personal use.

Don't forget that the defense budget of the US is greater than that of the next 20 countries put together.
 
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