Do you feel like the feminist movement has hurt the “family?”

[Harvard Blu]

After reading some of the threads in Sistas Online, I'm comfortable enough to ask this question here because you all have demonstrated honest, mature replies

Background:
My ex-girlfriend just told me she broke it off with us because she hated who she became when she was with me. She hated the fact that she measured her self worth based on what she believed I thought of her. And even though she can't express where she got this thinking of how "I see her," she can't let it go.

She claims that her upbringing by her parents to be an "INDEPENDENT STRONG BLACK WOMAN" and direction of her college education, that I don't want to expressly name (HBCU for women), reinforced that thinking/belief system. She is a staunch feminist to say the least, and that's where the negative energy about her looking to me comes into play.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminist_movement

Question:
Is this situation just an anomaly or is this pervasive in our society? Has the feminist movement played a larger role in the demise of the black family?

 

[KW13537]

I think that economics and the overall lack of leadership by men in a family setting led to the rise of the feminist movement. When there is no male head of household, what do young women have as an example? Their mothers who had to struggle to take care of the family. These young women who then teach their daughters to be self-sufficient in every way because they can't depend on a man. It leads to the masculinity of women. It also leads to the feminization of young men. They don't learn how to be a man and that's our failure as men. I don't believe men and women were created to be as separate as we are today. We have different roles, but one isn't less or greater than the other. We don't take pride in the traditional roles as men and women. We don't honor and respect our women as caregivers as well as partners in life. Woman don't learn to respect us as men. If we don't teach this to our daughters and sons, then what we get is what we have now - disfunction.

 

[Izayoi]

Harvard this is a difficult question, because I think feminism's intentions, manifestations, and perceptions are vastly disconnected and poorly misunderstood.

It doesn't sound like your ex was making decisions based on a socio-political feminist agenda. Seems like she allowed herself to be absorbed by perceptions of what she believed you wanted and then projected her unhappiness about her choices back on to you. Essentially, she tried to play a role that didn't suit her and found herself dissatisfied.

I'm unclear what that has to do with wanting equal pay, a respected political voice, and social justice (this is another level for black women because racism is a confounding factor) <------ that's what feminism is to me. It's NOT man hating, not wanting to control men, not invading men's sacred "spaces", not cooking, not cleaning, not having babies, and not shaving one's legs or underarms.

I interned in a women's studies department once in grad school to make some extra money. All of the female professors were married, had babies, wore lipstick, but were passionate about protecting the potential achievements of young women by not allowing Taliban type attitudes to go unchallenged. That experience dispelled a lot of the myths I had about the intentions of feminism.

Do I think the intentions of feminism were harmful- no, the execution and translation of feminism into speech and actions that vilify and denigrate men, especially black men- yes.

 

[thoughtone]

I think that economics and the overall lack of leadership by men in a family setting led to the rise of the feminist movement. When there is no male head of household, what do young women have as an example? Their mothers who had to struggle to take care of the family. These young women who then teach their daughters to be self-sufficient in every way because they can't depend on a man. It leads to the masculinity of women. It also leads to the feminization of young men. They don't learn how to be a man and that's our failure as men. I don't believe men and women were created to be as separate as we are today. We have different roles, but one isn't less or greater than the other. We don't take pride in the traditional roles as men and women. We don't honor and respect our women as caregivers as well as partners in life. Woman don't learn to respect us as men. If we don't teach this to our daughters and sons, then what we get is what we have now - disfunction.

Excellent reply, women have evolved with technology in the world. You don’t need strength to assert your earning power due to advances in living standards. The issue is not that women have better paying jobs then men, the issue is that the economic politics has not created better paying jobs for everyone. Men and women have to find a way to connect in a manner that is honest and men need stop defining male, female relationships has dominate and subservient.

 

[KW13537]

Harvard this is a difficult question, because I think feminism's intentions, manifestations, and perceptions are vastly disconnected and poorly misunderstood.

It doesn't sound like your ex was making decisions based on a socio-political feminist agenda. Seems like she allowed herself to be absorbed by perceptions of what she believed you wanted and then projected her unhappiness about her choices back on to you. Essentially, she tried to play a role that didn't suit her and found herself dissatisfied.

I'm unclear what that has to do with wanting equal pay, a respected political voice, and social justice (this is another level for black women because racism is a confounding factor) <------ that's what feminism is to me. It's NOT man hating, not wanting to control men, not invading men's sacred "spaces", not cooking, not cleaning, not having babies, and not shaving one's legs or underarms.

I interned in women's studies department once in grad school to make some extra money. All of the female professors were married, had babies, wore lipstick, but were passionate about protecting the potential achievements of young women by not allowing Taliban type attitudes to go unchallenged. That experience dispelled a lot of the myths I had about the intentions of feminism.

Do I think the intentions of feminism were harmful- no, the execution and translation of feminism into speech and actions that vilify and denigrate men, especially black men- yes.

TELL IT! i COULDN'T HAVE SAID IT BETTER! Many people don't understand the difference. They tend to let their experiences in familial and romantic relationships color the true meaning of feminism.

 

[KW13537]

Excellent reply, women have evolved with technology in the world. You don’t need strength to assert your earning power due to advances in living standards. The issue is not that women have better paying jobs then men, the issue is that the economic politics has not created better paying jobs for everyone. Men and women have to find a way to connect in a manner that is honest and men need stop defining male, female relationships has dominate and subservient.

I agree. If my wife is in the workplace doing what a man does, she better get paid the same as a man. In the home, we should put it all together and make it happen. The sum of the parts should be greater than the whole.

 

[Android]

After reading some of the threads in Sistas Online, I'm comfortable enough to ask this question here because you all have demonstrated honest, mature replies

Background:
My ex-girlfriend just told me she broke it off with us because she hated who she became when she was with me. She hated the fact that she measured her self worth based on what she believed I thought of her. And even though she can't express where she got this thinking of how "I see her," she can't let it go.

She claims that her upbringing by her parents to be an "INDEPENDANT STRONG BLACK WOMAN" and direction of her college education, that I don't want to expressly name (HBCU for women), reinforced that thinking/belief system. She is a staunch feminist to say the least, and that's where the negative energy about her looking to me comes into play.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminist_movement

Question:
Is this situation just an anomaly or is this pervasive in our society? Has the feminist movement played a larger role in the demise of the black family?

Often times, when you date a woman you do not just date her, you date her mom, her dad, her roommate, her sisters, her best friends, and whomever else she consults about the things you and her agree on.

And the “understandings” and “the good ideas” are only as good as the last person, of that consultation gang, she talked to and what they convinced her of. But, the narrative rarely goes the other way. Women can be sure that when they date us, and we agree on something, they aren’t dating all those other people.

But, from your description of her, she doesn’t sound like a feminist who, in her spare time, sits down to read the writings of Mary Wollstonecraft and judge them for their merits and flaws.

Instead, she sounds like she was fresh out of a few conversations with that consultation gang, and remembers a few talking points from some classes she took years ago, and decides to spring these on you as to the reasons why she wants to break things off. And then, when you inquire about the substance of her claims, she’s speechless. Well, I’m a little confused, “How can you be so speechless, in convictions so strong, that you are willing to break off a relationship over them? ....unless, of course, you are not being honest about your reasons why.”

But, I don’t think that feminism is destroying the family; I think that women who have a grave misunderstanding of feminism are, like those who feel that sex is somehow by its nature opposed to women. Or that a guy wanting sex is wanting from some evil-depth-of-the-human-imagination, right up there with murder and the rest of them. Instead of a woman who understands that sex is natural.
And court systems that award custody of the children to the mother 98% of the time are helping destroy the family.
With such conditions, women don’t have to have a substantive reason for divorce; they just have to have a whim of selfishness.

But, I wish the best of luck to you man, I really do.

 

[Izayoi]

^^^^ Excellent post android.

 

[bigirl]

Yeah there is a huge difference between knowing that you are made for more that just being barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen and wanting and achieving such and being a hostile and bitter man hater.

 

[AristotlesOwn]

It had to be Spelman because I don't see Bennett teaching that kind of thing.

The situation isn't anomalous, but it isn't pervasive either; there is some middle ground. I believe that the feminist movement had little to do with the degradation of the Black family. It may have had a small impact, but to what extent is not clear. As stated before, men conceding economic and parental responsibility has probably had the largest effect on family cohesion; men absolving responsibility and leaving their women to singularly raise children has had a greater impact than the movement.

Furthermore, the movement was never about the woman being superior, it was always about achieving equal standing between the sexes in society. As faulty as it is, we continue to interpret images such as bra burning and neo-cultural norms such as the independent working woman as signs that women want to elevate themselves above men.

 

[HoneyBerry]

I call myself a feminist. A feminist is someone who is an advocate for women's rights. That means if I'm doing the same job as a man, I get paid the same. But a lot of women get it confused. Being a feminist does not negate my natural duties to bear children and be a good mother. Finding the balance between being a feminist and being a woman is where I think a lot of women get caught up.

About the woman in the story: She hasn't found her balance in life and somehow thinks that being with a man can change who she is and what she believes in...

 

[Jam_Jam]

I call myself a feminist. A feminist is someone who is an advocate for women's rights. That means if I'm doing the same job as a man, I get paid the same. But a lot of women get it confused. Being a feminist does not negate my natural duties to bear children and be a good mother. Finding the balance between being a feminist and being a woman is where I think a lot of women get caught up.

About the woman in the story: She hasn't found her balance in life and somehow thinks that being with a man can change who she is and what she believes in...

I agree with much of what you say, but I have to wonder whether feminism is a bi-product of the sexual revolution. Many feminists are lesbians who want to take on the male role in society. We can have equal rights in the workplace, but who wants to be man? Some feminists want to lead women to believe that men are not an important part of the family structure. In some aspects, feminism has given "separate but equal" a whole new meaning. Feminism is not the problem. The problem is the confusion that some women feel about what it means to be a feminist. Which is what you have stated. Wanting equal treatment is a fair and just thought process, but at what cost? Black people wanted integration and integration has not helped us as much as we thought it would. Women wanted equality, but at what cost? It is very hard to say whether more women in the workplace has really benefited the American culture. I suppose there is a price to pay for every advantage we as women have gained in this society.

 

[LeroyDibiase]

Short answer, yes. Same way I feel desegregation has killed the Black community.

Not that there is anything wrong with gender equality but the means that many feminists wanted to get there was by erasing the gender line aka there is no difference between men and women. Which is ludicrous. Therefore, many women failed to fulfill their roles as nurturers and caregivers in the family. Now if you disagree that this is the role of a female in a family, then that's different. This also doesn't limit her ability to be a provider.

 

[mcguyver]

Short answer, yes. Same way I feel desegregation has killed the Black community.

Not that there is anything wrong with gender equality but the means that many feminists wanted to get there was by erasing the gender line aka there is no difference between men and women. Which is ludicrous. Therefore, many women failed to fulfill their roles as nurturers and caregivers in the family. Now if you disagree that this is the role of a female in a family, then that's different. This also doesn't limit her ability to be a provider.

Welcome back Leroy.

 

[xfactor]

She claims that her upbringing by her parents to be an "INDEPENDANT STRONG BLACK WOMAN" and direction of her college education, that I don't want to expressly name (HBCU for women), reinforced that thinking/belief system.

Don't let that Spelman chick get you down, bruh. That's their MO. They learn all the man hate in their first year seminar classes in Sister's Chapel

Most of them aren't smart enough to block out the brain washing, that is why you see a lot of them chop off their hair freshman year and parade around bashing men.

I still remember when they wanted to boycott when Nelly came to Spelman to hold a bone marrow drive for his sister. Talkin' all that shit about Nelly's "Tip Drill" video was degrading to women.

As far as feminists, they are just women that believe in equal rights between men and women in college instituions and in the work place. Most of them also think that they can fill the traditional man's role in a relationship and have penis envy.

 

[MTL]

I call myself a feminist. A feminist is someone who is an advocate for women's rights. That means if I'm doing the same job as a man, I get paid the same. But a lot of women get it confused. Being a feminist does not negate my natural duties to bear children and be a good mother. Finding the balance between being a feminist and being a woman is where I think a lot of women get caught up.

About the woman in the story: She hasn't found her balance in life and somehow thinks that being with a man can change who she is and what she believes in...

Excellent point!

 

[MTL]

I don't think that the feminist movement played any demise in the black family. The black family has always had strong black women taking care of their families. If anything feminist made the black family stronger because now the woman can get equal pay, a better chance of advancement, and go as far up the educational ladder as she wants.

The demise of the family i think has more to do with our men. The amount of drop outs, those in jail, gangs, fatherless house holds...Who do the kids have to look up to...their female "role model" (for better word). now to get the "family" back together, we need our men to be as educated, FATHERS and contributing members and role models for the next generation.

On a global scale i think that the feminist movement fucked up the male/female relationship in positive and negative ways. I don't think that men know their roles any longer. There are so many new rules for men that i think they are being emasculated, in some cases by women that are too independent.

 

[xfactor]

I don't think that the feminist movement played any demise in the black family. The black family has always had strong black women taking care of their families. If anything feminist made the black family stronger because now the woman can get equal pay, a better chance of advancement, and go as far up the educational ladder as she wants.

Because women are eligible for equal pay, a better chance at career advancement, and able to have better education opportunities, you think it is better for the family? I disagree because it's causing more women to be "individuals" instead of team players. I've seen marriages broken up because women wanted to pursue these said opportunities and it hurt the family. No matter how much equality happens between men and women, if they are going to have a relationship and start a family, it is all about sacrifices and working together as a team.

The demise of the family i think has more to do with our men. The amount of drop outs, those in jail, gangs, fatherless house holds...Who do the kids have to look up to...their female "role model" (for better word). now to get the "family" back together, we need our men to be as educated, FATHERS and contributing members and role models for the next generation.

Let me guess... You have atleast a master's degree talking like this? A person, male or female, can be "educated" without being a college graduate. Institutional racism in America is hurting black males a lot more than black females and that is the main problem. Look at your own post, you're downing brothas for some things they may have no control over. That's why it's important for young black males to stay out of trouble and not get caught up in the system. It's only 1 strike for us.

On a global scale i think that the feminist movement fucked up the male/female relationship in positive and negative ways. I don't think that men know their roles any longer. There are so many new rules for men that i think they are being emasculated, in some cases by women that are too independent.

How can men know their roles and women don't know theirs? Yeah, we all know the traditional roles of males and females in society but things are changing (because of the bra burning feminists) and men and women need to communicate better on how they want things to be, especially in relationships.

Selfishness + lack of communication = formula for disaster

 

[lilsexii]

Harvard this is a difficult question, because I think feminism's intentions, manifestations, and perceptions are vastly disconnected and poorly misunderstood.

It doesn't sound like your ex was making decisions based on a socio-political feminist agenda. Seems like she allowed herself to be absorbed by perceptions of what she believed you wanted and then projected her unhappiness about her choices back on to you. Essentially, she tried to play a role that didn't suit her and found herself dissatisfied.

I'm unclear what that has to do with wanting equal pay, a respected political voice, and social justice (this is another level for black women because racism is a confounding factor) <------ that's what feminism is to me. It's NOT man hating, not wanting to control men, not invading men's sacred "spaces", not cooking, not cleaning, not having babies, and not shaving one's legs or underarms.

I interned in a women's studies department once in grad school to make some extra money. All of the female professors were married, had babies, wore lipstick, but were passionate about protecting the potential achievements of young women by not allowing Taliban type attitudes to go unchallenged. That experience dispelled a lot of the myths I had about the intentions of feminism.

Do I think the intentions of feminism were harmful- no, the execution and translation of feminism into speech and actions that vilify and denigrate men, especially black men- yes.

Nuff said.

 

[MTL]

Because women are eligible for equal pay, a better chance at career advancement, and able to have better education opportunities, you think it is better for the family? I disagree because it's causing more women to be "individuals" instead of team players. I've seen marriages broken up because women wanted to pursue these said opportunities and it hurt the family. No matter how much equality happens between men and women, if they are going to have a relationship and start a family, it is all about sacrifices and working together as a team.

Sixty-one percent of Black married women were in the labor force in 1966. Almost onefourth of Black families are headed by females, double the percentage for whites. Due to the shortage of Black men, most Black women are forced to accept a relationship on male terms. In Black communities there sometimes exists a type of serial polygamy a situation where many women share the sme man, one at a time. taken from : http://scriptorium.lib.duke.edu/wlm/blacklib/

Let me guess... You have atleast a master's degree talking like this? A person, male or female, can be "educated" without being a college graduate. Institutional racism in America is hurting black males a lot more than black females and that is the main problem. Look at your own post, you're downing brothas for some things they may have no control over. That's why it's important for young black males to stay out of trouble and not get caught up in the system. It's only 1 strike for us.



How can men know their roles and women don't know theirs? Yeah, we all know the traditional roles of males and females in society but things are changing (because of the bra burning feminists) and men and women need to communicate better on how they want things to be, especially in relationships.

Selfishness + lack of communication = formula for disaster

The U.S. Census Bureau estimates there are about 5 million black men in America between the ages of 20 and 39. The new books, and an earlier one from Harvard, find them losing ground in mainstream American society, despite advances made by black women, presumably part of the same socioeconomic experience.

This vexing problem, caused by a variety of social ills, is equally vexing when scholars consider what causes it.

Among the studies' findings:

*
Rates of imprisonment for young black men escalated throughout the 1990s and continued climbing well into the current decade. About 16 percent of black men in their twenties who were not college students were either in jail or in prison.
*
African Americans are seven times more likely to go to prison or jail than whites.
*
Almost 60 percent of black male high school dropouts in their early thirties have spent time in prison.
*
The percentage of young jobless black men continues to increase, part of a trend that generally hasn't abated in decades. In 2000, about 65 percent of black male high-school dropouts had no jobs, either because they couldn't find work or because they were in jail. By 2004, the studies found that number had grown to 72 percent. The numbers for young black men were higher than for whites and Hispanics similarly affected.

Making matters worse, a forthcoming book, which includes a study of nearly 1,500 private employers in New York City, found that black job applicants with no criminal records weren't any more likely to get a job than white applicants who were just out of prison.

Persistence of imbalance
“A lot of people are skeptical that African Americans still face discrimination in the job market. But even in a diverse city like New York, the evidence of discrimination is unmistakable,” said Devah Pager, a Princeton sociology professor, in announcing “Punishment and Inequality in America.” The book, written by Princeton's Bruce Western, will be published in June.

“The 1990s were an eye-opener,” said Harry Holzer, a professor of public policy at Georgetown University. “You had the strongest labor market in 30 years; all things being equal, those were good times for African Americans. A lot of black moms were entering the labor market, but the dads kept dropping out.”

Holzer's new book, "Reconnecting Disadvantaged Young Men,” was co-written with two other scholars. The third book is “Black Males Left Behind,” edited by Columbia University professor Ronald B. Mincy. A 2004 book, “ Dropouts in America,” found similarly dire circumstances for young black men.

You can read the rest and more at:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12154123/

http://www.socialistworker.org/2002-2/420/420_12_JailsVCollege.shtml

http://www.hrw.org/reports/2000/usa/Rcedrg00-01.htm

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/20/national/20blackmen.html

http://scriptorium.lib.duke.edu/wlm/blacklib/

 

[Mo-Better]

Re: Do you feel like the feminist movement has hurt the “family?”

I don't think the feminist movement has hurt the family at all. People both men and women is whats destroying the family unit.

 

[xfactor]

The U.S. Census Bureau estimates there are about 5 million black men in America between the ages of 20 and 39. The new books, and an earlier one from Harvard, find them losing ground in mainstream American society, despite advances made by black women, presumably part of the same socioeconomic experience.

This vexing problem, caused by a variety of social ills, is equally vexing when scholars consider what causes it.

Among the studies' findings:

*
Rates of imprisonment for young black men escalated throughout the 1990s and continued climbing well into the current decade. About 16 percent of black men in their twenties who were not college students were either in jail or in prison.
*
African Americans are seven times more likely to go to prison or jail than whites.
*
Almost 60 percent of black male high school dropouts in their early thirties have spent time in prison.
*
The percentage of young jobless black men continues to increase, part of a trend that generally hasn't abated in decades. In 2000, about 65 percent of black male high-school dropouts had no jobs, either because they couldn't find work or because they were in jail. By 2004, the studies found that number had grown to 72 percent. The numbers for young black men were higher than for whites and Hispanics similarly affected.

Making matters worse, a forthcoming book, which includes a study of nearly 1,500 private employers in New York City, found that black job applicants with no criminal records weren't any more likely to get a job than white applicants who were just out of prison.

Persistence of imbalance
“A lot of people are skeptical that African Americans still face discrimination in the job market. But even in a diverse city like New York, the evidence of discrimination is unmistakable,” said Devah Pager, a Princeton sociology professor, in announcing “Punishment and Inequality in America.” The book, written by Princeton's Bruce Western, will be published in June.

“The 1990s were an eye-opener,” said Harry Holzer, a professor of public policy at Georgetown University. “You had the strongest labor market in 30 years; all things being equal, those were good times for African Americans. A lot of black moms were entering the labor market, but the dads kept dropping out.”

Holzer's new book, "Reconnecting Disadvantaged Young Men,” was co-written with two other scholars. The third book is “Black Males Left Behind,” edited by Columbia University professor Ronald B. Mincy. A 2004 book, “ Dropouts in America,” found similarly dire circumstances for young black men.

You can read the rest and more at:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12154123/

http://www.socialistworker.org/2002-2/420/420_12_JailsVCollege.shtml

http://www.hrw.org/reports/2000/usa/Rcedrg00-01.htm

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/20/national/20blackmen.html

http://scriptorium.lib.duke.edu/wlm/blacklib/

Did you even read my post? All you did was reiterate what I already said. Without the Works Cited and essay style format of course

Black women also fill a "double quota" in Corporate America so yeah, of course they're getting more opportunity now. Like I said the first time, institutional racism is hurting black males more than any other group these days.

You even said so yourself in your post -

Making matters worse, a forthcoming book, which includes a study of nearly 1,500 private employers in New York City, found that black job applicants with no criminal records weren't any more likely to get a job than white applicants who were just out of prison.

With brothas, it's 1 strike (and most of the time that's their skin tone) and you're out.

Why do you think that black women are being advanced in places where the black male used to be in the education and corporate realms and black men aren't? You can't honestly think it's because all of them are in jail do you?

You need to dig a little deeper to get to the root of the problem instead of blaming black males for things most have no control over. I'll give you a C- on this report. Hopefully you'll come harder next time.

 

[Harvard Blu]

I don't think that the feminist movement played any demise in the black family. The black family has always had strong black women taking care of their families. If anything feminist made the black family stronger because now the woman can get equal pay, a better chance of advancement, and go as far up the educational ladder as she wants.

The demise of the family i think has more to do with our men. The amount of drop outs, those in jail, gangs, fatherless house holds...Who do the kids have to look up to...their female "role model" (for better word). now to get the "family" back together, we need our men to be as educated, FATHERS and contributing members and role models for the next generation.

On a global scale i think that the feminist movement fucked up the male/female relationship in positive and negative ways. I don't think that men know their roles any longer. There are so many new rules for men that i think they are being emasculated, in some cases by women that are too independent.

I waited atleast a day before I replied, just so I could get a myriad of replies...so thanks for all the feedback.

This post was disturbing to me for a couple of reasons.
1. Though black women have been strong, it is a huge myth that they have been raising the black family alone. Not to mention most of the single family homes in our community come from children having children, so marriage really isn't an option if you are 14 or 15yrs of age when you become a parent. The lack of male role models took root in the 70's, coincidentally when the feminist movement had a lot of steam.
2. You contradicted your initial statemnt "I don't think that the feminist movement played any demise in the black family." and then state "On a global scale i think that the feminist movement fucked up the male/female relationship in positive and negative ways."

The tone of your reply lead me to ask: Could you trust a man to care for your well being?

 

[Android]

1. Though black women have been strong, it is a huge myth that they have been raising the black family alone.

This is certainly true, and xfactor made a similar point.
A lot of women will say, "I'm a single parent," and they leave out the most important part – "by choice."
Not because they weren't in a relationship that developed, where both people decided to begin a family. And not because the guy was physically abusive, though they have no moral hesitations about claiming that he was, to gain favor with the person they are dating now. But, because when it came to compromising, and the things that xfactor was talking about,

No matter how much equality happens between men and women, if they are going to have a relationship and start a family, it is all about sacrifices and working together as a team.

they didn’t stick with that. And the vowels, "For better or worse” and “in good times and bad," and I’d like to add the word “financially” at the end of those vowels, they didn’t stick with those either. And so, I mention that juxtaposed to the statistics that people like to quote to say, “look at all these single mothers.” And they quote them with a blind eye to the statistics for how often the courts award custody to the mothers, regardless of whether the father could support them.

And so, I still believe that the women, who think that being a feminist is a license to be an inconsiderate, quick-tempered, individual who doesn’t care who all she leaves in her wake, as she does what she wants to do, those women, have it wrong. Those things have nothing to do with equal opportunities, or personally deciding to attempt fields where men dominate.

 

[Harvard Blu]

This is certainly true, and xfactor made a similar point.
A lot of women will say, "I'm a single parent," and they leave out the most important part – "by choice."
Not because they weren't in a relationship that developed, where both people decided to begin a family. And not because the guy was physically abusive, though they have no moral hesitations about claiming that he was, to gain favor with the person they are dating now. But, because when it came to compromising, and the things that xfactor was talking about,



they didn’t stick with that. And the vowels, "For better or worse” and “in good times and bad," and I’d like to add the word “financially” at the end of those vowels, they didn’t stick with those either. And so, I mention that juxtaposed to the statistics that people like to quote to say, “look at all these single mothers.” And they quote them with a blind eye to the statistics for how often the courts award custody to the mothers, regardless of whether the father could support them.

And so, I still believe that the women, who think that being a feminist is a license to be an inconsiderate, quick-tempered, individual who doesn’t care who all she leaves in her wake, as she does what she wants to do, those women, have it wrong. Those things have nothing to do with equal opportunities, or personally deciding to attempt fields where men dominate.

Co-sign...and real talk this is where I got the question...why is being independent so important if we are suppose to be interdependent with one another in a relationship.

Hence I have to feel that the movement or the misinterpretation of the Feminist movement is actively destroying the black family equally as other social woes in our community

 

[kurrupt]

The problem is, nobody wants to play they role. Men dont want to be fathers to they kids and women want to act like they are so independent and educated that they dont need a man around.
Men need to be men and women need to be women..thats the problem..thats why so many homos is walking around. Cats lost they identity..Too many women want to be Bitches and too many niccas is Bitch asses! Straight up!

 

[bigirl]

no. men destroyed the family.

 

[Harvard Blu]

no. men destroyed the family.

And we can equally say, women won't let us rebuild it....

 

[xfactor]

no. men destroyed the family.

Wow, what an intelligent response

 

[LeroyDibiase]

no. men destroyed the family.

And you're gonna be able to supplement that with reasonable evidence and discussion?

 

[bigirl]

And you're gonna be able to supplement that with reasonable evidence and discussion?

its not that difficult. men spread their seed and then bounce. how can you be a decent father to anyone when you have 5 kids by 3 or 4 baby mommas?
then other men don't have the multiple baby mommas but just aren't around.
i am not saying this is all men but it is rampant. then the mother has to work 2 or 3 jobs to make ends meet so the child is raised by daycare and tv.

 

[LeroyDibiase]

its not that difficult. women make bad pussy decisions and spread their legs and then chase away the man with attitude and unwilligness to have a fulfilling relationship. how can you be a decent mother to anyone when you have 5 kids by 4 baby daddies?
then other women don't have the multiple baby daddies but just aren't around and be in the club all night long leaving grandma with the baby.
i am not saying this is all women but it is rampant. then the mother barely works, collects government TANF, food stamps, Section 8 housting, 4 different child support checks, free utilities, free lunch and breakfast for the kids, but somehow has money to have her hair always done, her nails and toes always done, and be in the club drinking it up so the child is exposed to a pisspoor demeanor on life and have no male influence/see momma fucking multiple men and raised by daycare and tv.

Fixed. See how easy it is to play the blame game. The question was has it hurt the family, not has it destroyed it or that women are to blame. Has it hurt it, well, I can't see anyone arguing that it has helped it.

 

[bigirl]

Fixed. See how easy it is to play the blame game. The question was has it hurt the family, not has it destroyed it or that women are to blame. Has it hurt it, well, I can't see anyone arguing that it has helped it.

your quote changing is highly immature
if fathers were doing what the fuck they supposed to then it wouldn't be any problem at all if a woman works or not. BTW I do not associate with people who collect government stipends.

 

[LeroyDibiase]

your quote changing is highly immature
if fathers were doing what the fuck they supposed to then it wouldn't be any problem at all if a woman works or not. BTW I do not associate with people who collect government stipends.

I use it because it is an effect measure of taking one's argument and flipping it against them.

What exactly are the father's supposed to do? I know 1000's of men who work, pay child support on time EVERY month, and damn near cry to me because she won't let him visit his son. Your points are assuming that the women in the picture are morally-centered. My point is that most people, regardless of race, gender, religion, whatever, are FUCKED UP in general. Instead of each side playing the blame game, we need to work together towards solutions to the problems.

 

[bigirl]

I use it because it is an effect measure of taking one's argument and flipping it against them.

What exactly are the father's supposed to do? I know 1000's of men who work, pay child support on time EVERY month, and damn near cry to me because she won't let him visit his son. Your points are assuming that the women in the picture are morally-centered. My point is that most people, regardless of race, gender, religion, whatever, are FUCKED UP in general. Instead of each side playing the blame game, we need to work together towards solutions to the problems.

well the proper way to raise a child is with both the father and the mother present in the same house. child support does not equal a father.