Why Cornell West and not the others if you're not just being a progressive shill?
Thought Experiment: what would happen if Black Americans boycotted the two party system for ten years?
- Thread starter The Catcher In The Rye
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I was asked my personal preference among recent third party options. You don’t have to be a progressive to prefer West to the people he named.
The WHite nationalist party wins full power basically eliminates Black voting rights, rendering your entire experiment moot. It won't matter who you would like to vote for at that point.
Because Green Party Candidates will never muster enough votes to win the presidency. One of the main reasons the UAW is on strike, is because the future of electric vehicles is threatening the manufacturing of internal combustion engine being phased out. I think if it wasn't for Ross Perot, George H Bush would have won a second term.
The GOP would erase slavery and discrimination from history books. But go ahead, don't vote and don't complain either.
Coons and shills have too much invested in the status quo to make real changes a possibility.
Coons and shills have too much invested in the status quo to make real changes a possibility.
Who is saying don’t vote?
Voting for Cornell West is the same as not voting. Might as well vote for Daffy Duck.
We don't vote enough now and keep losing ground. A boycott would free cacs from any pretense of addressing our issues. A better plan is to pick a viable black candidate that we will run third party unless our issues are included in the party platform. That person would drop out once our demands are met. This work takes time to do and racial commitment to each other not this people of color B.S. But let's be real. Some of you pop up a year out from an election trying to suppress the black vote so many of us are suspicious of your motives.
Is there anyone you have in mind, or someone you think can win a presidential election?
I see the paid for niggas with slow internet are serving nothing burgers. @Camille @Big Tex. I hope you have this same energy when one of these immigrants kills or harms you or one your family members.
Not wishing you any harm but I think that's what it will take for you to understand your stupidity. Once winter comes, they will be robbing with no remorse on the streets. Just watch.
I hope they can feed those nothing burgers to the immigrants they love to much.
Chicago and NYC voters are finally having to deal with the total incompetence of the party.
Running the country into the ground and completely unapologetic. You know a woman must be in charge of this fiasco. Biden isn't.
Not wishing you any harm but I think that's what it will take for you to understand your stupidity. Once winter comes, they will be robbing with no remorse on the streets. Just watch.
I hope they can feed those nothing burgers to the immigrants they love to much.
Chicago and NYC voters are finally having to deal with the total incompetence of the party.
Running the country into the ground and completely unapologetic. You know a woman must be in charge of this fiasco. Biden isn't.
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We should be grooming Jamal Bowman right now! No seriously, I don't have anyone in mind. Maybe Wes Moore Gov of MD. Most established Dems are busy kissing ass.
LMAO This stupid ass just pulled a fire alarm in the capital during the government shutdown vote... Please no more suggestions from you bruh...
I'm reminded of that line that Black Widow said in Age of Ultron:
"If we have one hand on the steering wheel, at least we can still drive..."
I feel like if we sat out, we'd essentially be taking that one guiding hand off the wheel, sacraficing the little bit of control that we do have...
"If we have one hand on the steering wheel, at least we can still drive..."
I feel like if we sat out, we'd essentially be taking that one guiding hand off the wheel, sacraficing the little bit of control that we do have...
I'm reminded that having black skin, doesn't mean you have people interest in mind...
You right I don't have PEOPLE interest in mind, I have BLACK PEOPLE interest in mind... you niggas kill me... y'all like a dog chasing cars... yeah it's one thing to do the shit, but if you actually caught one you wouldn't know what the fuck to do with it...I'm reminded that having black skin, doesn't mean you have people interest in mind...
I'm happy to be one of those black people, and not one of the N-word you're referring to. If you can't love your own people, and refer to them as the N-word, you will all always be a miserable human being... Learn to love yourself bruh. That's something you learn from a solid family upbringing, and foundation.
OK so we're deflecting now... coolI'm happy to be one of those black people, and not one of the N-word you're referring to. If you can't love your own people, and refer to them as the N-word, you will all always be a miserable human being... Learn to love yourself bruh. That's something you learn from a solid family upbringing, and foundation.
There's no deflecting...Let me ask you a question; would you vote for Tim Scott? He's black... My point was and is simple. Just because someone is black doesn't mean they have your best interest in mind. Hell, I believe George W Bush did more for black people from a global scale that Barack Obama did.
No. My question first. I cant weigh in on the scenario unless i have more information.
You said black people need to boycott the two-party system. Explain how that works, what it looks like, and how we get an agenda passed or candidate elected. Or if there is even a mechanism to submit an agenda or candidate. You seem to be suggesting that black folks sit out while the dem/GOP election machine continues on as usual. You're proposing this so you must have thought of a way it is supposed to be successful or benefits us. Lay it all out.
Great thread. My take is nothing would happen. We'd be replaced by another demographic. Also, independent voters carry more power than black people when it comes to voting.
Try 7.2 MILLION people.
I want to know what the event would be that would unify Black America into having the same agenda for the purposes of this boycott. Because as it is, "we" don't all agree on the same basic principles, how to address them, or even who is responsible.
But for the sake of argument, I can't see how this would bear out. White America ignores us at best now, and occasionally actively tries to wreck us.
White liberals would take the wrong message from the losses, and try to find some new demographic to tap instead of re-courting black voters.
White conservatives never needed an excuse to fuck us, and will just continue to fuck us just as hard as ever. Maybe harder, since they'd have no active resistance. By the time we mounted any real instrument for change, there'd be nothing left to change.
The real answer, as I see it, would come from supporting progressive candidates, but that's a long term commitment. That's making sure that progressives get elected in local and state elections, and then that they get re-elected. That's making sure not only that non-progressive liberals who ignore progressive goals are voted out, but also that progressive liberals are voted in to replace them. Centrist liberals would get the message, and hard-line conservatives would continue to see the handwriting on the wall.
Having a viable third party or two would be nice, but they would take roughly the same level of ground work and effort, and no party to date wants to put in the work. They just swing for the fences with random-ass presidential candidates and the occasional congressional bid.
But for the sake of argument, I can't see how this would bear out. White America ignores us at best now, and occasionally actively tries to wreck us.
White liberals would take the wrong message from the losses, and try to find some new demographic to tap instead of re-courting black voters.
White conservatives never needed an excuse to fuck us, and will just continue to fuck us just as hard as ever. Maybe harder, since they'd have no active resistance. By the time we mounted any real instrument for change, there'd be nothing left to change.
The real answer, as I see it, would come from supporting progressive candidates, but that's a long term commitment. That's making sure that progressives get elected in local and state elections, and then that they get re-elected. That's making sure not only that non-progressive liberals who ignore progressive goals are voted out, but also that progressive liberals are voted in to replace them. Centrist liberals would get the message, and hard-line conservatives would continue to see the handwriting on the wall.
Having a viable third party or two would be nice, but they would take roughly the same level of ground work and effort, and no party to date wants to put in the work. They just swing for the fences with random-ass presidential candidates and the occasional congressional bid.
What did I do?
I'm with you. I agree that voting is important. But I also think holding politicians accountable is even more important. Treating them like workers instead of idols is more important. Just like businesses treat employees like expendable cattle, that's how we should look at politicians we vote for.I disagree with you on MAGA/mean twitter man. Ohio voted for Obama twice. What made Obama win so many over back in 2008? He was post-racial. He connected with people others couldn't connect with. I challenge you to find 10 Obama quotes from 2004 to 2015 mentioning the words 'white supremacy'. Challenge you to find 10 from the same time period mentioning 'white privilege'. Don't think it can be done.
He was president of all of America and played masterful politics.
In 2015/16, white hippies went batshit over the mean twitter man and gave him 10s of millions in free press. The MAGA originally referenced the 'turn a screw' period of America. When folks could have 2 cars, a stay-at-home wife, and a home with a high school diploma. Basically, the same shit Obama campaigned for in fly-over country. White hippies said MAGA meant something else and that term then took on a new meaning and here we are.
Remember the 2016 GOP primaries? Mean twitter man was getting boos. He got into it with FOX. He was the anti-politician first and foremost. Powerful GOP folks said he was basically cosplaying as a republican. They seen through his shit but couldn't beat the marketing and his ability to get white hippies mad. Mad white hippies = republican voters thinking mean twitter man was god. That's how he became what he became.
One of the biggest things that help build mean twitter man were insane white hippies who kept telling people what they meant instead of listening to them. A cac saying they want 'turn a screw' times back was called racist. Meanwhile, same cac might have voted for Obama thinking he would bring back 'turn a screw' times with hope and change. Cacs were just thinking economics.
And here we are. 2023. Nothing was learned. Insane white hippies have spent 3 years stalking the mean twitter man. Huffpost, CNN, MSNBC, etc mention him 10 times more than FOX. They give him more energy than the right and that makes the mean twitter man so attractive to the right.
I thought once he was out of office it was over.Notice I never even use his name. Wonder where we would be in 2023 if Huffpost, CNN, MSNBC, and white hippies on social media all stopped talking about him.
By boycotting you mean not voting... Correct?
Well let's pose this question in a different way, one that's not so emotionally charged and too close to home.
What if the Latin or Hispanic people decided not to vote because they wanted more favorable immigration laws?
Or what if the racist far right decided not to vote, because they wanted the government to be tougher on crime?
Or women not voting because they wanted better abortion rights?
By now you should see where I am going with this, and realize this is either a malformed question or something that doesn't make any sense., mostly because failing to vote is not a vote against the system, if you really want to make a change then we should vote for an independent party that is more aligned with our peoples needs. But doing so calls for unity, awareness, and a sense of responsibility traits many of us struggle with.
Well let's pose this question in a different way, one that's not so emotionally charged and too close to home.
What if the Latin or Hispanic people decided not to vote because they wanted more favorable immigration laws?
Or what if the racist far right decided not to vote, because they wanted the government to be tougher on crime?
Or women not voting because they wanted better abortion rights?
By now you should see where I am going with this, and realize this is either a malformed question or something that doesn't make any sense., mostly because failing to vote is not a vote against the system, if you really want to make a change then we should vote for an independent party that is more aligned with our peoples needs. But doing so calls for unity, awareness, and a sense of responsibility traits many of us struggle with.
Could be 1932 Germany all over again or should I say 1619.
What did I do?
I disagree with you on MAGA/mean twitter man. Ohio voted for Obama twice. What made Obama win so many over back in 2008? He was post-racial. He connected with people others couldn't connect with. I challenge you to find 10 Obama quotes from 2004 to 2015 mentioning the words 'white supremacy'. Challenge you to find 10 from the same time period mentioning 'white privilege'. Don't think it can be done.
He was president of all of America and played masterful politics.
In 2015/16, white hippies went batshit over the mean twitter man and gave him 10s of millions in free press. The MAGA originally referenced the 'turn a screw' period of America. When folks could have 2 cars, a stay-at-home wife, and a home with a high school diploma. Basically, the same shit Obama campaigned for in fly-over country. White hippies said MAGA meant something else and that term then took on a new meaning and here we are.
Remember the 2016 GOP primaries? Mean twitter man was getting boos. He got into it with FOX. He was the anti-politician first and foremost. Powerful GOP folks said he was basically cosplaying as a republican. They seen through his shit but couldn't beat the marketing and his ability to get white hippies mad. Mad white hippies = republican voters thinking mean twitter man was god. That's how he became what he became.
One of the biggest things that help build mean twitter man were insane white hippies who kept telling people what they meant instead of listening to them. A cac saying they want 'turn a screw' times back was called racist. Meanwhile, same cac might have voted for Obama thinking he would bring back 'turn a screw' times with hope and change. Cacs were just thinking economics.
And here we are. 2023. Nothing was learned. Insane white hippies have spent 3 years stalking the mean twitter man. Huffpost, CNN, MSNBC, etc mention him 10 times more than FOX. They give him more energy than the right and that makes the mean twitter man so attractive to the right.
Notice I never even use his name. Wonder where we would be in 2023 if Huffpost, CNN, MSNBC, and white hippies on social media all stopped talking about him.
You didn't do anything. I was just looking for someone else to stress the importance of voting. The other posters did a good job tho.
Obama touched on race, but everything he did was a focus on unity. The folks around here don't want that and they want something no other group gets. Since that didnt happen they say he didn't do anything for black people. For a while they couldn't say what that was they even wanted, but they've since settled on reparations and a hate crime bill that we already have that was signed into law by Obama.
Matthew Shepard and James Byrd Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act - Wikipedia
When Trump first came on the scene he was treated as a joke. But he said such outrageous things that got clicks and views that the news kept bringing him back. That is what legitimized him and that's when people started getting mad and freaking out. The news wanted controversy and ratings and Trump provided both.
Les Moonves actually said "But, you know—it may not be good for America, but it’s damn good for CBS, that’s all I got to say." https://fair.org/home/the-trump-campaign-bad-for-america-but-good-for-cbs/
We also couldn't get good election coverage. I remember being pissed because there would be coverage of a Hillary event and MSNBC would cut away for some Trump BS because he was better for ratings. They only stayed with her long enough to see if she'd clapback at Trump. Dems were doing social media stuff, but that is scattered and doesn't take the place of main stream media coverage. Also there were all the negative stories about Hillary and her emails while Trump coverage was actually a celebration of his poor behavior.
Rachel Maddow tries never to cover Trump or mention his name. Suddenly her coverage changed and she was covering his events. You could tell she was pissed about it and eventually she went back to her normal coverage, but they got orders from the top to cover him.
I can think of a dozen reasons why black folks sitting out is bad, but I've been typing about this for 2+ days straight. The OP is suggesting we don't engage in two party politics at all for 10 years.
Before I answer I'm waiting for him to explain how he envisions this all working out and benefitting us. What it looks like, and how we get an agenda passed or candidate elected. Or if there is even a mechanism to submit an agenda or third party candidate. He said we are not coalition building and its just us abstaining while the dem/GOP election machine continues on as usual. I also need to know if we are bringing issues to dems/gop in government at all. I'm pretty sure Chicago is not going to get relief unless it's though the local dem/gop and firing all the ones who won't act. Are we supposed to just be demanding and not voting? I can think of several ways that backfires as well. I just want more information so I only have to type out one encyclopedia instead of three.
Anyone one except Hillary would have beat TRUMP! This was done on purpose.
The CBC ain't shit according to your second paragraph.....can't argue with you
Cbc has events to bring awareness all the time. The most recent is below. Search alc52 on YouTube for videos.
Bernard Sanders would never have beaten Trump. Republicans have 30 years of oppo research on him just waiting to get unleashed.
Progressives were the ones that told Black people to sit down and shut up while Bernard courted Joe Rogan and his audience even though he had used the hard R several times.
A thought experiment is not a proposal. It is a brainstorming exercise.
I don’t want to be so prescriptive as to say all black Americans get behind Cornel West. Or how an independent agenda is pushed during that time period— It obviously could not be done successfully. The purpose is to examine the effect on the party currently benefiting from black support— The Democrats. That’s why in the OP, I asked what would happen 10 years down the line, when we all come back as new voters.
It could work, but you will have to have a party of our own to replace the two prominent parties. If not, they will easily legislate a form of slavery again and we are back where we started from. Motherfuckers are trying to do that right now and a lot of us are voting. We should focus on local politics instead of national politics. If you can control the politics you have in each state, you can damn near say fuck congress and the president. Black folk should mostly live in a few states so we can pool our resources and band together. What we don't do is run our own delegates and politicians. Well, we don't run enough of them. Start doing that shit en mass, shit them motherfuckers would sing another tune.
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