That's one thing I got out of the fire and fury book Bannon is a racist piece of shit, but he was not going to do anything that could be considered illegal or obstruction.
He was trying to protect hope hicks also.
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Mueller Report Out! (AG Barr Edition: download within)
- Thread starter sharkbait28
- Start date
He was trying to protect hope hicks also.
Oh. He's been handing things off to other jurisdictions for a while. However, he clearly lays this at the feet of Congress to further investigate. Impeachment is an investigation.
Also in the Mueller report he confirmed GRU/Russian intel broke into Florida election machines before the 2016 Election Day..
Makes you wonder how trump win by 70k votes in total between 3 states, the 3 states Manafort have polling data to the Russians... I hope y’all see where this is going...
Makes you wonder how trump win by 70k votes in total between 3 states, the 3 states Manafort have polling data to the Russians... I hope y’all see where this is going...
Motherfucker you said the reason Trump wasnt in jail now was because of the democrats.
That was false, a lie, and stupid.
Your explanation is meaningless.
Stop being stupid.
Do yall realize why the Dems won the House during the midterms? Look at the fucking exit polling? What was at the top of the list.
Yall are so got-damn worried about Trump supporters and they're irrelevant. The Dems win when their base is excited. The 2020 race isn't going to be won on GOP likelihood to vote. They consistently vote. Whether or not Trump is going through an impeachment trial won't have any material impact on his support with his BASE. It's going to be on Dem turnout.
Why are AOC and the new crop so exciting to the Dems... because they "fight". Even with a highly-redacted Mueller report, it's clear that Trump committed several impeachable offenses and is burning institutions down. The reason he keeps doing the shit and will get worse is that he's never held accountable for his actions because people are scared of what he'll do when he's cornered.
Stop comparing to shit to Clinton's impeachment. It's not even remotely similar. That was GOP overreach. This isn't.
Yall are so got-damn worried about Trump supporters and they're irrelevant. The Dems win when their base is excited. The 2020 race isn't going to be won on GOP likelihood to vote. They consistently vote. Whether or not Trump is going through an impeachment trial won't have any material impact on his support with his BASE. It's going to be on Dem turnout.
Why are AOC and the new crop so exciting to the Dems... because they "fight". Even with a highly-redacted Mueller report, it's clear that Trump committed several impeachable offenses and is burning institutions down. The reason he keeps doing the shit and will get worse is that he's never held accountable for his actions because people are scared of what he'll do when he's cornered.
Stop comparing to shit to Clinton's impeachment. It's not even remotely similar. That was GOP overreach. This isn't.
Notice McConnell talkin bout retirement in 2020... he know his bitch ass on the down ballot going to get smoked...
Eeww I’m telling you all those bitch ass gop senators who took that trip to Russian last year on July 4th weekend, Burr who was leaking contents of the investigating to the White House, all those dudes going to see prison in some form or fashion when the Dems take the senate.. Trump is meow mix once he is forced out of office
I wanted to come back to this....
This is a good question..
In the Report Mueller makes several statements about traditional prosecutorial standards....
It really does seem like... they were under constraints on what they could do....
That he felt like if he were allowed to dig deeper.. he would have found more and that the team was more troubled about the Obstruction shit... then Repubs would like to admit.
The fact that Trump outright refused to answer any of their Obstruction questions should be all that you need to know.
The only way we'll find out is IF he's impeached. It's clear what Barr and Guiliani and the rest of his team have been doing. They knew the only real worry was impeachment because he couldn't be indicted. It's always been about the politics and not the criminal liability because he's protected by executive powers right now.
He can't even pardon people while being impeached.
It's so clear that Barr shut this down.
There is no way Mueller would end an investigation with an indictment of Stone but not waiting for Assange to be taken into custody in order to work a deal with him and any action on Assange was a long time in the making and Mueller would have known he was going to be taken into custody soon.
Barr shut the investigation down.
sarah sanders you lying, filthy whore.
That's why you need an impeachment trial. All these people would have to testify, publicly. and the House could call witnesses perform cross-examinations and all the evidence (like Mueller's full report) would need to be disclosed. The committees(run by the Dems) would then compile the evidentiary record and present it to the Senate and they COULD present it to the public. Trump's strategy has been to wide/withhold information and an impeachment trial ends that. That's why Guiliani has been running interference. His sole purpose was to fight this POLITICALLY, not legally. They were never worried about this criminal liability. Their ONLY concern has been the political liability and the public supporting an impeachment trial. Killing Mueller's favorable ratings was as much about impeachment as it was about the actual report. The GOP doesn't want impeachment because it takes the lid off.
Man. Do yall understand how damaging it would be to Trump and the GOP to have this lying ass pig testifying under oath during an impeachment trial?
The naysayers here are warped because of GOP abuse of impeachment during Bill Clinton's team. That was a gross overreach about lying over a blowjob. Trump's entire administration (past and present) is wrapped up in this and would all be forced to testify under oath and much of it in public. Regardless of what the Senate did, the damage would be epic. There is a huge difference between the basic fallout from a fox news interview about her confessing to lying to Mueller and then publicly admitting under oath that she was LYING as the Press Secretary of the U.S. She'd be forced to resign under those circumstances at minimum. And she's one out of a plethora of staff.
The naysayers here are warped because of GOP abuse of impeachment during Bill Clinton's team. That was a gross overreach about lying over a blowjob. Trump's entire administration (past and present) is wrapped up in this and would all be forced to testify under oath and much of it in public. Regardless of what the Senate did, the damage would be epic. There is a huge difference between the basic fallout from a fox news interview about her confessing to lying to Mueller and then publicly admitting under oath that she was LYING as the Press Secretary of the U.S. She'd be forced to resign under those circumstances at minimum. And she's one out of a plethora of staff.
I don't think he shut down.
Remember at the end of the investigation, Mueller is supposed to write in the summary whether anyone overruled or impeded his investigation, he didn't list any.
Oh. He didn't literally say, "you have to stop the investigation today". However, he took steps to do that very thing. For instance, he made Mueller release Flynn from his cooperating agreement. He asked him if there was an immediate charge being filed directly because of Flynn's cooperation. Mueller said no. Barr made him release him. That's one example of him forcing a wind-down indirectly. Barr is too smart to directly say "this is over". He can do it in other ways without being directly accused of shutting it down.
Also, we don't know if Mueller feels like it was slowed down. We don't know what Mueller thinks because we didn't get his unedited summary nor has he spoken publicly about it.
Maybe he didn't shut it down, but a lot of coincidental things happened once Barr took over.
maybe
Nadler already sent out a request for Mueller to appear before the House Judiciary Committee before May 23rd. The first question should be whether he felt his investigation was pressured in anyway to end prematurely.
But ultimately, I just don't think there was any chance of any smoking gun evidence to pinpoint a conspiracy, these dudes are too smart for that.
Had to come back to this shit from BARR.. it stuck in my mind all day...
Barr's Memo.. Specifically says..
"In cataloguing the President's actions, many of which took place in public view, the report identifies no actions that, in our judgment, constitute obstructive conduct, had a nexus to a pending or contemplated proceeding, and were done with corrupt intent, each of which, under the Department's principles of federal prosecution guiding charging decisions, would need to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt to establish an obstruction-of-justice offense."
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/03/24/us/politics/barr-letter-mueller-report.html
This is where to Me.... BARR fucked himself...
He made this statement... Appear as if it was the Collectively judgement of the DOJ & THE MUELLER TEAM... but in reality this was clearly BARR..
Why do I say this..
When looking at the Analysis section related to ..... The President's conduct related to FLYNN..
a. Obstructive ACT: Mueller found that Trump's statement to Comey about "I hope you can clear the way to letting this go"... and the circumstances surrounding it.. show the President was asking Comey to Close the Investigation into Flynn.
b. Nexus to a Proceeding: Mueller found that at the time that he made the Statement to Comey.... Trump was aware that Flynn could face criminal exposure for his was conduct and that Flynn was at risk of prosecution.
c. Intent: Mueller found that even though they had no evidence to suggest that the President had a personal stake in the Flynn Kislyak investigation... There was evidence to establish that the President Connected the Flynn investigation to the FBI's broader Russia investigation and believed that terminating Flynn would end the RUSSIA thing. They found that the way that Trump communicated the Request to Comey to Fire Flynn... suggested that he intended that Comey fire FLynn to end the Russia Thing...
------- page 259..
Right there.. You have 1 count of Obstruction...
I could go on to the others..
But you have 1 count of the elements of obstruction right there.... Mueller didn't use any buts or maybes.. His thoughts on this are clear.. the Only thing he doesn't say is.... We find that amounts to 1 count of obstruction... But it is fucking crystal clear..
So BARR's summary was basically this...
"WE LOOKED OVER the Report.. and I (BARR) personally decided that this doesn't constitute obstruction...."
The thing is.. that BARR never goes into detail about why in his judgement NONE of these actions constitute the elements of obstruction....
BARR could have easily followed the shit in his memo... but by saying that in his OPINION.. There was no actions that met the elements and then listing the elements.. You are opening yourself up to some questions..
Especially since your memo completely contradicts what was said in the Analysis of the report.
Man I really feel like the Media hasnt even caught up to this... BARR 4 page summary... WAS Flat out his personal opinion.... and not the Mueller team.
Now couple that above with this. Remember Barr said Mueller laid out both sides of the argument on the obstruction examples. Except for the fact that we don't see that in those examples from the report. He made the case for obstruction with no counter-arguments. We know Barr wouldn't have redacted the counterarguments so what he just LYING in his memo?
This just happened to
"In a move that sets up a clash between the Trump administration and Congress, House Judiciary Committee Chairman Jerry Nadler issued a subpoena on Friday for the full report, giving the Justice Department until May 1 to comply."
His base alone isn't enough. Honestly, he got just enough extra voters the 1st time because he was an unknown, a I'm going do do special things kinda candidate. Those "extra" people are going to be there to
I agree with some of your points here and I also think @gene cisco makes excellent points as well. However, the one big thing I think he and @Big Tex aren't taking into account or are disregarding(not intentionally) is "fair voting practices." The amount of motivated Democrats that would have to go to the polls to offset all the craziness designed to suppress their votes is going to be huge in this election. It goes without question, for various reasons, including legal exposure leading to arrest of Trump and friends. He will do everything in his legal power and beyond his legal power to stay in office.
I'm afraid combating that is going to take more than just shutting up with this "whole impeachment thing" and compagining only on what Americans really want.
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Question is now when Dems get the full unredacted subpena can they impeach Barr and can they re-op the investigation being that Mueller wasn’t done?
The quicker the Dems get that full unredacted report the quicker they can bring impeachment proceedings.. Pelosi is gonna be forced to do it
They can impeach Barr the way he's handled the report. Again, he said things in his memo that aren't being represented in the report. His memo said that Mueller gave both sides of the argument on every example of obstruction. However, when you see the latest report, you don't see those arguments. Mueller just makes the case as to why something could have been obstruction. He doesn't say why it couldn't be obstruction. If there were no counter-arguments to the examples, that would mean Barr misrepresented Mueller's report to provide cover for Trump.
One of the things an impeachment trial would expose is how much encroachment into the voting process the Russians actually did.
We still don't know and at every turn/release we learn how much it was more than we thought. For instance, it was supposed to be just a small number of states, but recently we learned the Russians hacked into every state at some point.
I was on @Big Tex's side until this redacted release. I thought Pelosi did a good job of walking the party back and that they needed to solely focus on the hot-topic issues for 2020. However, after seeing all the crimes committed in this highly-redacted version of the report, the Dems would be ignoring their constitutional responsibility by not launching an impeachment trial (which would be a full investigation). The Dems have been playing defense on this from the very beginning. They need to go on offense.
At least half those people think impeachment means removal. And when he is not removed they’re going to be dejected.
And he is not going to be held accountable. Not really. What if he doesn’t fight the house impeachment at all just to get to the Senate before the election? Everyone just pleads the fifth and doesn’t delay so the vote happens quickly. What happens to the base is at the end of all this, not only is Trumo still in office, not only have Dems used their big gun on him, but the only thing that has been done to him is that he has been found not guilty.
Then the next time he does something crazy he can look at the Dems and say impeach me again, i fucking dare you.
Look he should be impeached and he probably will. I’ll just say this, when it happens I don’t want to hear no shit about no voting from anyone on the left. His supporters are going to be as white hot about voting in 2020 as Dems were in 2018.
And I don’t want to hear any crying that he’s still in office after it’s over because there’s no chance he won’t be.
It's a tough spot! But, beyond elections as you've stated here it's their JOB and they need to perform it. If they too start doing only the parts of their jobs for their own selfish benefit then how do they 1) Try and sell that they're different from the other-side and 2) What's the point of having checks and balances anymore? Not to mention the American people as a whole lose if publically and intentionally elected officials don't even pretend to be trying to serve them anymore.
Yeah. it's a very tough situation.
What if Mueller testifies that Barr/Whitaker forced him to terminate the investigation prematurely and that he wanted to uncover the person communicating with Gucifer 2.0....
Because until now all they have is Trump side of the story...
We actually don't disagree on much.
I think where we disagree is on the party-based dynamics of it. I think his base is locked in, regardless. He has a very high approval rating in his party (overall) and his base is firmly entrenched and happy with his presidency. They're gonna be fired up regardless IMO. He's going to use immigration to fire them up anyway. I don't think impeachment would have any material impact on his base's likelihood to vote. However, whether he's removed or not, I think actually fighting Trump with everything you have is going to have a motivating impact on 2020 dem voters. They literally said impeaching Trump was one of the top reasons why they showed up during the midterms. They lost the Kavanaugh battle, but the party loved that the DEMs actually FOUGHT the dems on it instead of just laying down. It's clear by the types of candidates that won in 2018 that the Dems want fighters.
People just think it's politically risky because of what happened to Bill Clinton but the entire country thought it was GOP over-reach because in the end, it was over a fucking blowjob. This isn't the same case.
I actually don't think impeachment will happen. I think Pelosi will try to use it as leverage, but won't pull the trigger
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