Star Wars The Last Jedi (SPOILER Discussion thread)

- The Emporer was explained in the original trilogy. It was just a gradual slow build. He was a shadowy figure who's character was expanded upon in each movie. Initially he was someone mysterious who seduced Anakin. Then he was shown to be force sensitive and whom Vader only feigned loyalty to. Finally we were shown he had unique darkside force powers & unyeilding control of Vader.
- The prequel trilogy was as much about Palpatine's complicated/convoluted rise to power as much as Anakin.
- After watching & knowing all that we're supposed to assume Snoke somehow essentially recreated the same scenario. Despite Luke's & the Force Ghost Jedi's knowledge of the recent past that damn near destroyed them. And was so complete that Luke went into hiding for years. Then we not suppose to care about how/why this happened. Then were not supposed to care that Snoke is dispatched with the quickness and the forgotten.

Emperor was never explained... he wasn’t in New Hope. He only had one Floating Head scene in Empire. Most of his stuff was in Return but even then... you had no clue who are what he was. All you knew he was a Sith Lord, Vader’s master, and he wanted Luke Skywalker for a reason.
 
DUDE LET PHASMA DIE!! STOP THAT SHIT! PHASMA IS A NOTHING CHARACTER!!! JUST SOME BIG BITCH IN A SILVER SUIT THATS IT! SHE'S NOT IMPORTANT TO ANY STORYLINE NOT EVEN FINN'S! :scream::pain:

okay I got that out of my system...sorry bout the outburst..

but for some reason fans keep latching onto the most useless characters then create a buzz around them and force the filmmakers to shoehorn a bigger role for them when its completely unnecessary. I call it BOBA FETT SYNDROME. Its the ONLY reason he had a role in the PT when he shouldn't have. Phasma is the same thing.

No one gave two shits about Ackbar until this meme

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My best to worst.

1. TLJ
2. ESB
3. R1
4/5. ANH/TFA
6. ROTJ
7. RTOS
8. TPM
9. ATOC

When ESB came out not too many people liked it.
It is only after the fact that it has been heralded the best one of the OT.
TLJ is probably going to be seen the same way. It is not a crowd pleaser like the other movies and it actually has a lot to say which a movie should have something to say. It is a throwback to how movies used to be rich and didn't necessarily cater to our whims as fans.

See this man gets it .... People have these rose colored glasses on but back in the day Empire Strikes Back was as divisive as The Last Jedi is now because it was more violent and had a complete shift in tone. It also didn’t end on happy ending... which back in the 80’s (before The world of Trilogies) was unheard of.


Case in point.... original New York Times review of Empire

http://www.nytimes.com/library/film/061580empire.html
 
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DUDE LET PHASMA DIE!! STOP THAT SHIT! PHASMA IS A NOTHING CHARACTER!!! JUST SOME BIG BITCH IN A SILVER SUIT THATS IT! SHE'S NOT IMPORTANT TO ANY STORYLINE NOT EVEN FINN'S! :scream::pain:

okay I got that out of my system...sorry bout the outburst..

but for some reason fans keep latching onto the most useless characters then create a buzz around them and force the filmmakers to shoehorn a bigger role for them when its completely unnecessary. I call it BOBA FETT SYNDROME. Its the ONLY reason he had a role in the PT when he shouldn't have. Phasma is the same thing.

I don't take this shit THAT serious

Bobby fett, phasma, maul, H8ter...

Looked cool, beautiful design iconic colors and stand out moments that were JUST ENOUGH to leave a big impression.

That is not easy to pull of or should be taken lightly in cinema

There have bee. BIG Budget 2 Hour blockbusters with 6 writers THAT couldnt DO THAT WITH ONE character.

She was cool

a movie like this is hell any success film is supposed to be basically 6 really cool moments.

You need characters and moments to do that.
 
My little girl thinks I'm the smartest dad ever...

Because I told her watch Luke feet...

He isn't making any red sand tracks.

When it was revealed?

I almost freaking cried cause her eyes were so bright and mouth fell open when she turned to look at me in the dark theatre and held my hand tight.

I felt like Superman.
 
This movie was executed perfectly.

Rey & Ren are balancing the forces. Confronting their weak force is essential to their growth beyond past Jedi / sith.

They are moving away from the religion of the Jedi and sith, the master of weaponry and lightsabers to the mastery of the force. The religion / lore pitch each on a side that they can not move from. Accepting the focus and mastering it allows them to embrace both sides.

She is not the daughter of “nobodies”. She is his sister. Finn is her half brother. Ren rescued them from Luke’s school before it burned. Luke and Ren have realized that they must destroy the religious aspect of the orders. It’s fanaticizes and pollutes the force creating cyclical war. The past master focused on skills rather than balance. The new masters will forgo the skills like sabers and truely master the force.

Luke, Ben, yoda, and anikin will train and are guiding Rey. Ren is being trained through Rey as a proxy for Luke.
 
https://www.themarysue.com/poc-women-in-the-last-jedi/

The Treatment of POC & Women in The Last Jedi
by Princess Weekes | 8:25 am, December 22nd, 2017

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Spoilers For The Last Jedi. The Porgs Have Warned You.

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A lot of criticism and praise have been flung both ways when it comes to The Last Jedi. I personally loved the movie and while I am open to hearing other people’s opinions, some of the backlash has been, for a lack of a better word, extra, from alt-right groups wanting to bash the movie because of too many brown people and too many women in charge in their space films. Or it not being the Star Wars movie “they wanted.” Yet, I think it is unfair to lump all criticism as just the rantings of white-straight male “fanboys”.

Star Wars is a huge fandom with fans across the world and of every gender, therefore it is important to listen to what they are saying when they are offering feedback on how they are portrayed.



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https://twitter.com/jongrubbs/status/943521007465361408
Jonathan Grubbs, Attempted Human@jongrubbs

Nothing but respect for MY president. #RoseTico #TheLastJedi

11:38 AM - Dec 20, 2017
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Of the criticism about race and gender, I have seen people argue the following (1) Finn/Rose’s story amounts to nothing and therefore just bog down the film and (2) All the major women’s stories are sacrificed in favor of a man’s growth or development.

Alright, let’s discuss those and as the internet says:

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I don’t speak for all black female fans in any way shape or form, I can only say how I feel about that topic from my own humble perspective.

Finn/Rose’s Story is Meaningless

If we are talking purely narratively, then yes I can totally see how Finn and Rose’s adventure to Canto Bight can be unfulfilling and it plays into Problem B: women’s stories being there to serve men. In a movie that is too long, this feels like the thing most instinctively to cut back. However, there was something Youtuber MovieBob said in his spoiler review of The Last Jedi that stuck with me: that Star Wars as a franchise is about “thoughts and feelings” and that this sequence is used to illustrate the inequality within the larger universe that is bigger than just Rebels vs Empire–excuse me, First Order.

There is a human element to this struggle, both in who gets persecuted and who benefits, and the lines are clear cut. The abuse those children suffer is at the hands of both sides of the war. One of the things that I have always found curious is that the Rebels are fighting to bring back the Republic, but when there was a Republic, slavery was still going on as we see with Baby Vader. There was still injustice. Persecution. Why do we need a Republic and not just a better emperor? Canto Bight doesn’t answer that question fully, but it does at least address these issues.

Not to mention, the characters who get to tear up that town are Rose and Finn, an Asian woman who lost her sister to war and a black man who used to be a child soldier. That’s not an accident. Rose Tico is the first main woman of color character in the Star Wars universe who is not an alien on screen. That is not a small thing for a franchise which up to this point has spanned eight films. The sequence established Rose well, her values, how much she is willing to risk to help the Rebellion and how her goodness can inspire others, like Finn whose allegiance to the Rebels was more about not wanting to be a Storm Trooper anymore than wanting to be a hero.

I won’t sit here and pretend that Finn goes through this massive character arc, but he starts this film trying to escape to meet up with Rey and ends it willing to commit suicide in order to protect the Rebels. That is because of his storyline with Rose and how being in Canto Bight changed him for the better. It is a good character journey and the ending sequence in which those young kids that helped Rose/Finn escape are sharing stories about the Rebel forces and Luke Skywalker prove why this story exists in the universe. Finn and Rose brought hope to people and that’s the whole point of Star Wars.

At this point, I treat Canto Bight sequence as kind of like the Trench Scene in Wonder Woman. That scene isn’t “necessary” it is a big action sequence meant to solidify a bond between characters and show us how Diana wants to protect people and what her values are as a heroine. That she is willing to fight for people even when it seems helpless. Let’s not forget the same village she fought to free ends up getting merked in the third act. Does that make the scene meaningless? No. Because it wasn’t just about the plot, it was about the character’s values.

Women’s Stories Exist to Teach Men a Lesson

Admiral Holdo’s decision to not tell Poe her plan is going to be something people debate for years, the same way people argue about the driftwood in Titanic.

I, personally, understand Holdo’s decision to not tell Poe her plan. Poe’s reaction to her when she first appears in the film is very dismissive, his first conversation with her is to mansplain how they only have so much fuel left (something she would already have been briefed on) and let us not forget the first thing he does this movie is disobeying Leia’s orders, which leads to the destruction of all the current Rebel Bombers and the death of Rose’s sister. I would not tell him anything either. In my mind, Holdo’s quiet decision is best said by Leia: “She was more interested in preserving the light than being a hero.”

Holdo’s plan required patience and stealth and also a sense of detachment. Holdo was going to die regardless. Her plan was always to die because once the ship ran out of fuel and the shields failed she was going to get blown out of the sky. That means being able to be detached and steady course when necessary. Her concerns were probably: What if people want to escape sooner? What if someone wants to try and save her? What if instead of just staying the course people decide to fight? If Poe had just trusted Holdo the casualties would have been greatly cut and considering that she was his superior officer, that is what he should have done. But as that scene at the beginning established—Poe has authority problems even with people he trusts.

So yes, Holdo’s story teaches Poe a lesson as does Leia’s, but that lesson isn’t just for Poe. It is for the audience. Trust women and do not assume that because they are not aggressive, or quick to blow things up, or have purple hair, that they aren’t good at their jobs. War is not about always fighting to the bitter end, it is about knowing how to stay calm and retreat with a plan. Holdo’s sacrifice is a strong narrative beat and to say it only exists for Poe is limiting her story immensely. Poe called Holdo a coward and a traitor when she was always the bravest person on that ship.

Rey’s storyline has also been criticized for having too much to do with Kylo Ren and I tell you what, that I agree with. I really, really am not a fan of Reylo, so on just that level, the amount of Rey/Kylo collusion was eye-roll inducing. That being said I disagree that she is underserved as a character because as much as I dislike it–sigh–Rey and Kylo are the co-leads of this series in addition to Finn and Poe.

Kylo’s murdering of his family members aka the cast of the original trilogy is tied to his whole philosophy of “letting the past die” paired with Rey’s inability to let go of the past. Let go of the nostalgia for her parents and the nostalgia of the legend of Luke Skywalker. Her connection with Kylo Ren isn’t about Kylo Ren, it’s about her sense of self and her secret desire to be more than just the daughter of two junkies who left her and died in the desert somewhere.

Kylo is the person Rey wanted to be. The son of heroes, born with power, the keeper of Skywalker blood and it doesn’t make him a good person or even a better warrior than Rey. Part of the reason Rey wants to save Kylo is that if she can, it proves that she is just as good as Luke being able to save Vader. It makes her a hero, it gives her a larger purpose and sense of identity. She, Rey from Jakku can save Ben Solo.

Then she doesn’t and she has let go of all of those ideas and instead become a new hero for a new age. Luke Skywalker is the legend. Rey from Jakku is the reality. Kylo’s emotional journey is more external—because by nature, he is so extra–a true Skywalker. But that doesn’t mean Rey doesn’t get equal development from her interactions with him. By finally closing the Falcon door on Kylo she is saying that it is her, not him, who has truly inherited the Skywalker/Solo legacy. She gets the Falcon, she gets the Jedi texts, Chewy likes her better, Leia bonds with her, Luke and Yoda think she’s cool. What does Kylo get? Hux’s eternal side eye.

The only female character who is truly underserved is Phasma, which Mary Sue editor Kaila has already brilliantly discussed.

I don’t think this will change anyone’s mind about Star Wars: The Last Jedi or that my opinion is inherently “right,” but I think we should have the conversation.

And if you want to yell at me and say I’m wrong, well …

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I don't take this shit THAT serious

Bobby fett, phasma, maul, H8ter...

Looked cool, beautiful design iconic colors and stand out moments that were JUST ENOUGH to leave a big impression.

That is not easy to pull of or should be taken lightly in cinema

There have bee. BIG Budget 2 Hour blockbusters with 6 writers THAT couldnt DO THAT WITH ONE character.

She was cool

a movie like this is hell any success film is supposed to be basically 6 really cool moments.

You need characters and moments to do that.

yeah but if its not executed properly you get no context to the moments...all you get are just teaser/trailer ready moments with no substance...

from the article you linked

It’s even more confusing of a choice when we consider the amount of time and energy devoted to establishing Phasma within the wider Star Wars universe. An entire novel, Phasma, released in September as part of the Journey to Star Wars: The Last Jedi, by author Delilah S. Dawson, was devoted to telling Phasma’s backstory by proxy. She also received a four-part comic series written by Kelly Thompson, Star Wars: Captain Phasma, recounting her more recent adventures between the two movies.

This is a vaunted treatment that almost none of the new trilogy’s characters have received—not Rey, not Finn, not Poe, not Kylo Ren, not Hux. It seems as though the creatives at Disney/Lucasfilm were interested in cashing in on Phasma’s fan favorite status and her ability to move product and merchandise, but did not view these offerings as any reason to actually include her in the film in a significant fashion.
 
yeah but if its not executed properly you get no context to the moments...all you get are just teaser/trailer ready moments with no substance...

from the article you linked

It’s even more confusing of a choice when we consider the amount of time and energy devoted to establishing Phasma within the wider Star Wars universe. An entire novel, Phasma, released in September as part of the Journey to Star Wars: The Last Jedi, by author Delilah S. Dawson, was devoted to telling Phasma’s backstory by proxy. She also received a four-part comic series written by Kelly Thompson, Star Wars: Captain Phasma, recounting her more recent adventures between the two movies.

This is a vaunted treatment that almost none of the new trilogy’s characters have received—not Rey, not Finn, not Poe, not Kylo Ren, not Hux. It seems as though the creatives at Disney/Lucasfilm were interested in cashing in on Phasma’s fan favorite status and her ability to move product and merchandise, but did not view these offerings as any reason to actually include her in the film in a significant fashion.

I understand My daughter got the Phasma novel, doll and comics for Christmas...

saw that scene and almost cursed for the very first time.

She did NOT like that.

But again it was the same with Bobba Fett and Maul...

and they brought Maul BACK TO LIFE

it happens in TV movies and comics FOREVER and I don't see it as a bad thing.

Like I said we got cartoons books and comics...

it didn't bother me and rarely does

I respect that the characters are now iconic and happy for the actor that played them.

That may be the greatest achievement to play something for a minutes that generations remember for a life time.

and watch Phasma lives.
 
Emperor was never explained... he wasn’t in New Hope. He only had one Floating Head scene in Empire. Most of his stuff was in Return but even then... you had no clue who are what he was. All you knew he was a Sith Lord, Vader’s master, and he wanted Luke Skywalker for a reason.
True...but we got enough to know he was a big deal.

In A New Hope, Grand Moff Tarkin said the "Emperor dissolved the Senate."

In Empire Vader commanded that the Star Destroyer they were on clear the asteroid field so they can have a clear signal to call the Emperor. He then proceeded to kneel and call him master.

True, we didn't get an explanation of who he was, but we knew he was the top dog.
 
Actually found a pretty decent copy of last Jedi.... if slam doesn’t upload it... I’ll figure out how to post it. It’s a cam but it’s pretty clear.
 
Actually found a pretty decent copy of last Jedi.... if slam doesn’t upload it... I’ll figure out how to post it. It’s a cam but it’s pretty clear.

This copy is pretty good... after my 3rd viewing I’m still trying to figure out what all the bitching is about... everyone’s complaints are shit that’s answered in the movie.

1. How did Rey defeat Luke? Answer she didn’t... luke was serving her up and disarmed her and he fell back only because she surprised him and force pulled a lightsaber. At that point Luke was like fuck it.. I’ll tell you the story of what happened.

2. Why did the first order just hang back and slowly follow the Resistance ships for that long? Why didn’t they over take the fleet?

That because they couldn’t. They clearly say in the movie that the Rebel fleet was faster and more agile then the First order ships. So the Fleet maintained maximum thrust to stay out of the way of the effective range of the First orders ships... with the knowledge that the tie Fighters couldn’t reach the Rebel fleet as fighters would be without protection from the first order destroyers and the destroyers couldn’t overtake the Rebel Fleet because they were too slow.

I could go on and on...

I honesty don’t get why theirs a vocal minority of people that simple hate this move.

This movie is great to me.
 
1. How did Rey defeat Luke? Answer she didn’t... luke was serving her up and disarmed her and he fell back only because she surprised him and force pulled a lightsaber. At that point Luke was like fuck it.. I’ll tell you the story of what happened.
noticed that Luke didn't really fall
 
noticed that Luke didn't really fall

Yeah he used the force to catch himself.


But Fam... seriously I don’t get the hate on this movie. I actually like it even more once I watched it at home. Is it perfect ... no...

But this movie was a great showcase of the futility of war. You can feel how this war has dragged on everybody involved.
 
This copy is pretty good... after my 3rd viewing I’m still trying to figure out what all the bitching is about... everyone’s complaints are shit that’s answered in the movie.

1. How did Rey defeat Luke? Answer she didn’t... luke was serving her up and disarmed her and he fell back only because she surprised him and force pulled a lightsaber. At that point Luke was like fuck it.. I’ll tell you the story of what happened.

2. Why did the first order just hang back and slowly follow the Resistance ships for that long? Why didn’t they over take the fleet?

That because they couldn’t. They clearly say in the movie that the Rebel fleet was faster and more agile then the First order ships. So the Fleet maintained maximum thrust to stay out of the way of the effective range of the First orders ships... with the knowledge that the tie Fighters couldn’t reach the Rebel fleet as fighters would be without protection from the first order destroyers and the destroyers couldn’t overtake the Rebel Fleet because they were too slow.

I could go on and on...

I honesty don’t get why theirs a vocal minority of people that simple hate this move.

This movie is great to me.

how did DJ know about their escape plan since rose and finn were never told?

how did snoke draw kylo to the dark side and luke not be aware when he was training him?

just observation: leia never a had a use for the force beyond telekinesis and a personal defense. Yet looked to Luke to use the force to solve the issues of the galaxy... (and no I haven't read the books and graphic novels. I just talking about the movies)

it would have been cooler to see luke putting rey thru her paces physically like yoda did him.. I really get the feeling no one knows how a jedi is trained because theyve never really shown it even in the PT.
 
This copy is pretty good... after my 3rd viewing I’m still trying to figure out what all the bitching is about... everyone’s complaints are shit that’s answered in the movie.

1. How did Rey defeat Luke? Answer she didn’t... luke was serving her up and disarmed her and he fell back only because she surprised him and force pulled a lightsaber. At that point Luke was like fuck it.. I’ll tell you the story of what happened.

2. Why did the first order just hang back and slowly follow the Resistance ships for that long? Why didn’t they over take the fleet?

That because they couldn’t. They clearly say in the movie that the Rebel fleet was faster and more agile then the First order ships. So the Fleet maintained maximum thrust to stay out of the way of the effective range of the First orders ships... with the knowledge that the tie Fighters couldn’t reach the Rebel fleet as fighters would be without protection from the first order destroyers and the destroyers couldn’t overtake the Rebel Fleet because they were too slow.

I could go on and on...

I honesty don’t get why theirs a vocal minority of people that simple hate this move.

This movie is great to me.

I think the movie is too cerebral for most people. Also, there is an emotion attachment to the characters and people feel that these characters should do as they please. In the end, I think it will get the credit it deserves
 
I think the movie is too cerebral for most people. Also, there is an emotion attachment to the characters and people feel that these characters should do as they please. In the end, I think it will get the credit it deserves
I hate when people say that.. "its too cerebral"...theres a thing among stand up comics that says if you tell a joke and no one laughs..YOU fucked up not the audience.

take the casino thing for instance..if rose is supposed to be the moral backbone of the resistance then fine I'll rock with that....but sending her and finn on wild goose chase for a plan that was pretty half assed to begin with is annoying and distracting to the larger point.
 
I hate when people say that.. "its too cerebral"...theres a thing among stand up comics that says if you tell a joke and no one laughs..YOU fucked up not the audience.

take the casino thing for instance..if rose is supposed to be the moral backbone of the resistance then fine I'll rock with that....but sending her and finn on wild goose chase for a plan that was pretty half assed to begin with is annoying and distracting to the larger point.

Why is Citizen Kane heralded as one of the best movies ever but didn't get its recognition when it came out? Some times the audience gets things and sometimes they do. It is the nature of the beast.
Do I think that the Rose/Finn part amounted to nothing? Not really. There is a lot going on which does play into the larger narrative and themes that exist in the film.
 
how did DJ know about their escape plan since rose and finn were never told?

This is easy...

Before Poe starts his mutiny, he radios Finn to inform him that Vice Admiral Holdo is planning to flee the cruiser and head to the surface and they need to get the tracker down ASAP to make the jump to hyperspace. During this scene, DJ is in a chair behind Finn listening to the whole conversation, the film even makes a point of cutting to his face showing him looking interested.
 
how did snoke draw kylo to the dark side and luke not be aware when he was training him?

During Luke’s flashback the very first thing that he says is that he sensed Darkness in Ben and that it was building in him... that he saw it in moments during his training and that by the time he finally looked inside him... it was beyond anything he ever imagined and Snoke had already turned his heart. My take is that Luke .... like Snoke arrogantly thought that there was no way that a student of his would become like Lukes father... just like how Snoke arrogantly thought there was no way that Kylo would betray him.

it would have been cooler to see luke putting rey thru her paces physically like yoda did him.. I really get the feeling no one knows how a jedi is trained because theyve never really shown it even in the PT.

This part I agree and it’s still possible... just cause he is a force ghost doesn’t mean he can’t train her.
 
take the casino thing for instance..if rose is supposed to be the moral backbone of the resistance then fine I'll rock with that....but sending her and finn on wild goose chase for a plan that was pretty half assed to begin with is annoying and distracting to the larger point.

I think the fact that all of the rebels plans were pretty half assed is what made the movie a gem for me. None of their plans worked.... not a single one of them. You have never seen that in a Star Wars movie.
 
I think the fact that all of the rebels plans were pretty half assed is what made the movie a gem for me. None of their plans worked.... not a single one of them. You have never seen that in a Star Wars movie.
Well.. thats not true.. ESB shows the rebels taking an L at Hoth before following leia and han running from the empire and that blowing up in their face. And it ends on an true downer..hans captured, luke gets his hand cut off and finds out satan is his father and the rebels have to regroup.

TLJ ends hopefully...which was the point but the losses really didn't sting because there was no real time to connect with anyone.

Rose lost her sister...but we just met them so while we see her pain we can't feel it because we don't know them. Also her proclaiming to love finn then kissing him was more :rolleyes2: than :bravo:..mainly becuz again WE DON'T KNOW ROSE!

When Leia said I love you and Han said I know...there was damn near a standing ovation in the theater...why..because we saw the attraction and chemistry between them over 2 movies. We see Han captured by Vader who is no one to fuck with so we know Han can't fast talk or shoot his way out of this one... getting ready to be frozen in a process that may or may not kill him and we KNOW Vader wouldn't give a shit a either way and there is NOTHING Leia, Chewie and even Boba Fett (all the people invested in han's living) can do about it. The stakes and tension is incredibly high at this moment..we the audience are emotionally invested in all these characters..

so when this scene happens...



it is at the perfect peak of all of that emotional investment. And the audience felt it and reacted to it. :bravo::bravo::bravo::bravo:

When Rose stops finn from doing a suicide mission then says in so many words she loves him and kisses him...there were no applause in the theater....the reaction was more like o_Oo_Oo_Oo_O I had to literally think about it after the movie and say..well she did fangirl hard on him earlier so I guess she's got a crush:dunno:..I didn't have to do that with han and leia..

Its clear they wanted to have the same kind of beat in TLJ that was in ESB in that moment...But they just introduced us to rose and even tho they were together for most of the movie..I didn't see much chemistry between the characters.

Hey I like the movie but I think its in tune with this generation than the original fans of the OT...
 
Huge Star Wars fan, but this is the very first film that I have zero desire to see again in theaters. It was entertaining and there were some clap moments (like Luke dusting his shoulder off), but overall I have to say it was a letdown. Rey's Mary Sue-isms CONTINUE TO BE THE BIGGEST HINDRANCE to my enjoyment of the plot. So she's just going to be the most incredible and powerful Jedi of all time without an ounce of proper training? NOT AN OUNCE. Self taught force user after a handful of tips, capable of levitating an entire rock slide without any struggle. For goodness' sake, they showed Luke's X-Wing in the water, at least have a sequence with him teaching her to lift it, so that there is a payoff when she lifts the rocks at the end of the movie. Even worse is the fact that Rey wields lightsabers and goes toe to toe with anyone in the galaxy without ANY instruction. She doesn't even farm for kyber crystals and construct her own lightsaber. She just uses Luke's old lost one, which by the way they still NEVER explained how it got from Cloud City to Maz Kanata.

And while it was a nice sequence and a good use of Yoda's force ghost, NO the burn the old, prepare for the new way of the Jedi concept doesn't explain away everything I was just ranting about. It's plot hole filled lazy story writing. Oh, but wait, Rey took the Jedi texts with her, so I guess she is going to train herself, akin to Daniel LaRusso trying to teach himself Karate from a book. If in episode 9, it turns out that they have Luke's force ghost train her, that will again be short shrift, and lazy writing. What exactly can Luke's force ghost accomplish that Luke alive could not? Which brings me to my second largest issue with this film, the way they ended Luke's story. I get it and even bought the fact Luke wants to die, but to have him go out the way that he did seemed like it was at best; a cheap attempt to tug the heartstrings with the loss of one of our favorite characters, or at worst; a disrespectful out with the old, in with the new transition for the sake of moving the universe forward.

Yoda stated that Luke must teach Rey about failure, but how is he supposed to do that when he's 1. Dead, and 2. Rey has literally never failed at a single force related activity? And if they expect us to count her inability to turn Kylo as a failure, then that is again, lazy writing. Also, what was the deal with Snoke? We won't even get into his terrible CGI. But as a character, he's this uber-powerful Sith that we were never properly introduced to, or given a backstory on. He's just there, and then he's not. Despite his ability to literally toss Rey around the room with his index finger, and manipulate both Kylo and Rey's minds from across the galaxy. While I get that what happened to him was completely in line with the mythos, i.e. the rule of two and how the apprentice is secretly always looking to overthrow the master, particularly once they've identified their own apprentice (which Kylo thought he had in Rey); that moment was neither a surprise, nor did it seem earned by the plot that they'd given us to that point.

My third major gripe with the film is their handling of Finn's storyline. They've completely taken one of the brightest stars in TFA and shifted him to the C plot. And a meaningless C plot at that. He accomplishes NOTHING. He would have been more incremental to the storyline at this point, if they had let him finish the suicide mission, and that had bought time for the rebels to get away. I would have been very pissed that they killed him, but it would have made more sense than just having him bumble around like "Hey guys, I'm still a character in this thing, so I have to do something." It's to John Boyega's charisma, credit, and acting credentials that we are able to see any character development with the plot that they've given him. He could have been a part of the foundation for the continuing Jedi order, if they had just went with the force sensitive angle. Instead we get what amounts to a glorified extra, suddenly thrust into a lazy love triangle. Oh, and some random child laborer doing his best Turbo sweeps the sidewalk impression, as an insight into the potential future of the force.

Again this movie wasn't terrible, but it wasn't that great, especially with what came before it. I see a lot of people already gushing about how awesome this movie was, and those are some of the same people that berated JL up and down for what they considered to be plot holes, and the movie forcing you to connect too many dots from logic or your outside knowledge. TFA is guilty of the same thing to a comparable degree, and it didn't have an hour shaved off of it's runtime. I guess it really comes down to your fandom, with regards to how much movie malarkey you are willing to let slide. Again, I'm a fan, but this movie required us to fill in holes that shouldn't exist, and assumed moments and plot beats that it didn't earn. This just shouldn't happen to a franchise like Star Wars, NINE MOVIES into the universe.

Lastly, the comedy. I'm aware that Star Wars always has comedy, but it was too much in this film. It was approaching Thor Ragnarok levels of incompatibility. It was a Rogue One/ Empire Strikes back level story (good guys getting trounced more or less), with Return of the Jedi level comedy. I will eventually watch it again, and own it like all of the other SW films, but I found it to be a disappointment, overall.

Great breakdown and I pretty much cosign every point you made. I just want to add what makes this movie even more frustrating and annoying... especially regarding Reys "Mary Sue-ism", is unlike every other StarWars Film is this one takes place right after the events of the previous film. There isnt years in between like the other films. So Rey is still a complete force novice kicking all type of Force ass...smh .

They also spent alot of time with the Female general who stepped up after Lea and for what? She had nothing to do with the overall plot going forward. That was valuable time that could have been used to develop characters we are supposed to care about. Seems like her whole purpose as a character was to put Poe in his place.
 
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Either this is lies or you guys are MAD annoying in a theater.
I hate when niggas talk too much! Stfu in the theater nigga.
Let other people enjoy the movie.

My little girl thinks I'm the smartest dad ever...

Because I told her watch Luke feet...

He isn't making any red sand tracks.

When it was revealed?

I almost freaking cried cause her eyes were so bright and mouth fell open when she turned to look at me in the dark theatre and held my hand tight.

I felt like Superman.
 
I would have rather had that skinny Asian Bitch than the Fat Asian bitch.
That Asian Bitch and the screaming African Nigga didn't need to be in the movie at all.
 
Just saw this movie. Made me miss Jar Jar.

other than a few special effects, this shit was hot garbage to me. I saw the first one back in theaters as a kid. This one lacks any charm or anything. It's like lets make fucked up versions of the fucked up version prequels and then polish them.

Even the fucked up fake as half assed copy of the catina music they played in the casino pissed me off.

Luke doing a Tupac Coachella hologram from across space?
Space Leia?
Snoke?
Yoda blowing up the temple from the afterlife, but let's Snoke do whatever and just kill people?
Finn? Space Janitor crybaby. I was hoping they would let him go out like a G

Naw homie, this was the last straw for me. I'm out.
 
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