will history repeat itself?

[cranrab]

it happened in 2004-2005.

it happened in 2005-2006.

will it happen in 2006-2007?

every time lamar odom is out of the starting lineup, the fakers have a losing record during that stretch.

lamar odom is out for approximately 1 month (or 15 games) due to a sprain of his MCL suffered last night against the rockets.

what do you think will happen?

 

[Rollie_Fingaz]

If the Maggette/Iverson deal goes through, they won't even be the best team in their own building.

 

[cranrab]

If the Maggette/Iverson deal goes through, they won't even be the best team in their own building.

shhhh. that's a secret.

 

[cranrab]

0-1.

 

[xfactor]

0-1.

 

[RunawaySlave]

Time to whip out the ole, "no help" defense


he doesn't have any help!! he doesn't have any help!!
he doesn't have any help!! he doesn't have any help!!

amazing what the loss of one player can do to the
production level of the rest of the team.

 

[xfactor]

Time to whip out the ole, "no help" defense


he doesn't have any help!! he doesn't have any help!!
he doesn't have any help!! he doesn't have any help!!

amazing what the loss of one player can do to the
production level of the rest of the team.

I've never understood that argument.

The team is 3-0 without him this year so how is it that they instantly become "scrubs" when he plays? Those analysts... Real experts

 

[cranrab]

amazing what the loss of one player can do to the
production level of the rest of the team.

ESPECIALLY when that one player has been described as:

"soft"
"no-heart"
"disappearing"
"non-aggressive"
"deferring"



let's see what happens tomorrow.

 

[cranrab]

The team is 3-0 without him this year so how is it that they instantly become "scrubs" when he plays?

funny.

you must be referring to:

"the greatest player in the game"
"the closest thing to michael jordan"
"the player who can score from anywhere on the floor any time he wants to"
"the player who can will his team to victory (except when lamar odom is gone)"

 

[cranrab]

1-1.

HUGE fakers comeback after being down 18 points at half.

HUGE CONSECUTIVE steals by william parker in 2OT to seal the game for the fakers. william parker owned rafer alston. reminded me of the big steals he had in the playoffs last year against steve nash.

 

[RunawaySlave]

Yao Ming

7'6"
15-35 fgm-fga

5-6 ftm-fta


Shaq takes 35 shots and shoots 83% from the FT line
how many points you think he has after 2 OTs??

 

[cranrab]

Yao Ming

7'6"
15-35 fgm-fga

5-6 ftm-fta


Shaq takes 35 shots and shoots 83% from the FT line
how many points you think he has after 2 OTs??

yao ming looked (and played) like he was done after Q4.

there was nothing left in the tank and he looked pathetic. brian cook and kwame brown both blocked his shot in the 2OT.

it may just be me, but his teammate's body language seemed like they were frustrated by coach van gundy still running plays for him down the stretch.

 

[wantyme]

lol, good to see you went to bed mad, last night. dummy.



53

 

[TimRock]

0-1.

So a game where Lamar Odom played 3 minutes does't count?

Also, whatever happened to that thread (forgot who created it) about if Kobe shoots under 40% (something to that effect) the Lakers will lose the game? I believe someone said that this was a FACT. I wont speculate, but I was just wondering if that thread could be updated. I'm curious to see if this still remains a FACT.

 

[RunawaySlave]

So a game where Lamar Odom played 3 minutes does't count?

Also, whatever happened to that thread (forgot who created it) about if Kobe shoots under 40% (something to that effect) the Lakers will lose the game? I believe someone said that this was a FACT. I wont speculate, but I was just wondering if that thread could be updated. I'm curious to see if this still remains a FACT.

I was the one who said that. But I also said that there were
no absolutes and there would be nights where it might not
happen. But on the whole, if Kobe took 33% or more of the
teams' total shots that it usually meant that they were going
lose. But if he took 25% or less, it usually meant that they would
win.

In that same thread, there were people who SWORE that Kobe
had absolutely NO help and that Lamar Odom was not all that.
My only criticism of him is that he has that thing where he's a
lefty but he only drives right and that when he fixes that (which
he's FINALLY started doing), he would become a force

btw, he did NOT correct that flaw in his offense under Pat Riley,
but he DID correct it playing under Phil Jackson.....I wonder why??

 

[cranrab]

1-2.

lost AT HOME against a team that is 2-8 on the road.

you know, one of those "weak" eastern teams.



BTW, did gil bust 60 on the "garden snake"?

 

[Havoc]

If the Maggette/Iverson deal goes through, they won't even be the best team in their own building.

Stop fooling yourself. AI is no doubt a great player, but I honestly don't see him playing like he did in Philly.

"I mean, we're talking about practice. Practice. Practice."

 

[Havoc]

Time to whip out the ole, "no help" defense


he doesn't have any help!! he doesn't have any help!!
he doesn't have any help!! he doesn't have any help!!

amazing what the loss of one player can do to the
production level of the rest of the team.

Whoa. Those same (negative) things concerning Odom's game have been said by the same mouths that have lauded him as a great player for the Lakers.

I'll be the first to say that he's certainly missed on the roster. He's missed because he's more reliable than the rest of the players on the squad, as opposed to being THAT great. He works well with Kobe when they're both focused on the same goals, but I wouldn't trust him as a leader on my team.

There's a pretty good reason why he was one of three to be traded to the Lakers.

 

[cranrab]

1-3.

pretty quiet around here.

 

[xfactor]

1-3.

C,

The sad part about it all is that the lakers should be 2-2 without Odom in the starting lineup.

Funny that nobody wants to talk about how Bryant's poor play can single handidly destroy the lakers chances of winning a game (or in tonight's case..the lakers 6 point half time lead.) Or the fact the the lakers actually increased the lead to 10 for a stretch in the 2nd qt with Bryant on the bench (Who knew those D-League rejects could actually increase a lead )



The team will be lucky to be .500 by the time Odom comes back

 

[xfactor]

He's missed because he's more reliable than the rest of the players on the squad, as opposed to being THAT great.

You're right. Odom is by far the most reliable player on the team. It's a reason that without Odom in the lineup, this team is worse than the 72-73 Philadelphia 76ers

but I wouldn't trust him as a leader on my team.

In a regular style offense for another team? I probably wouldnt either. In an equal opportunity offense like the triangle? I would. Especially considering the fact that the offense is suited to his skill set.

There's a pretty good reason why he was one of three to be traded to the Lakers.

Yeah. And that reason was for matching the required salary cap number (which is the basis of how a trade is made - not talent level). Also, I think its safe to say that who wouldnt trade anyone on their roster for Shaquille O'Neal?

 

[cranrab]

2-3.

question:

can anyone tell me why there was a VERY significant 11:31 in the 2nd half of this game?

answer below.
















answer:

with the fakers DOWN by SIX points (about to be 8 because the timberwolves were at the FT line) in Q3, coach jackson removed tobe from the lineup. coach jackson chose to sit tobe for almost an entire quarter (11:31) in the 2nd half. tobe did NOT return until 3:25 left in Q4, fakers UP by ELEVEN.

once again, so much for the theory that the "other" fakers can't play OR have no chance without tobe.

once again, proof as to what the "other" fakers can accomplish when not hindered by tobe. tobe in, fakers losing. tobe out, fakers winning.

 

[TimRock]

Come on now. All the starters were on the bench. Not only Kobe. I begin to watch this game in the 3rd quarter when the lakers found themselves down by 12 i believe. KG had just left the game as well. On the floor for the lakers were, Farmar, Vlad, Bynum, Evans and Sasha (i believe). This line up did a great job of coming back and winning the game for them. Bynum controlled the paint and had some key blocks. Evans and Vlad made big shots as well. Farmar hit a tough fade away in the paint. All 5 players on the floor played a well balanced game. But to say that they are better without kobe is not fair. After all, He did have 23 points.

I hope that Phil Jackson uses this method a lot in the future (not only while odom is out). Vlad seems to be getting his touch back, and everyone played with great confidence.

Kobe came back in the game with 3 something to play. I watched carefully to see if the lead would strink. It didnt. In the 4th qt, in 3 minutes of play (and some change) Kobe had (i may be off by 1 here) 3 rebounds, 3 assists (good penetration passes to Vlad and Smush for 3's), 0 for 1 on fgs, and 1 of 2 on fts.

One thing Kobe needs to realize, is that with his penetration, teams are always going to clog the paint on him. He has some very good shooters on his team that can knock down open shots. Kobe has the ability to spread the floor very well. IMO he could easily lead the league in assist. To be a great player, it's not always about scoring (Nash). I think he played a very good balanced game yesterday and i hope it continues. I say he should take no more than 20 shots a game. If he drives and dishes, not only will his APG go up, but the teams confidence will go up as well. Vlad is a big key to the lakers success this year. If he can continue to knock down, not only 3's (and plays better defense), the lakers could find themselves deep in the playoffs.

Maybe Kobe will look at his benching in the 3rd and 4th qt as a sign and help THE team gain more success. If he can do that, then things should be fine.

On another note, anyone see Chris Paul dunk on Dwight Howard ?

 

[TimRock]

If the Maggette/Iverson deal goes through, they won't even be the best team in their own building.

They didnt have Iverson last year and they were the best team in the building. Why do they need him this year? Why are the Clips struggling? I read on the Insider that Mike is trying to get his son in a Clipper uniform for Maggette, but a 3rd team would have to be involved? Im not sure what the teams problem is.

 

[Rollie_Fingaz]

They didnt have Iverson last year and they were the best team in the building. Why do they need him this year? Why are the Clips struggling? I read on the Insider that Mike is trying to get his son in a Clipper uniform for Maggette, but a 3rd team would have to be involved? Im not sure what the teams problem is.

You always look into trades that you think will make the team better. This os where Minnesota made the mistake. They thought that Sam Cassell was washed up and traded him to the Clippers for that bum Jaric.

L.A. made the same mistake with Horry.

 

[cranrab]

All the starters were on the bench.

not quite.

the fakers started:

william parker
tobe
luke walton
brian cook
kwame brown

the squad on the floor when tobe left in Q3 was:

jordan farmar
sasha vujacic
maurice evans
bryan cook
andrew bynum

KG had just left the game as well. On the floor for the lakers were, Farmar, Vlad, Bynum, Evans and Sasha (i believe).

close.

the euro radmanovic entered the game in Q4 to counter the timberwolves' substitution. kevin garnett finished Q3, but sat to begin Q4. he was subbed by craig smith.

the timberwolves started:

mike james
ricky davis
trenton hassell
kevin garnett
mark blount

the squad on the floor when tobe left was:

randy foye
ricky davis
marko jaric
kevin garnett
mark blount

so it wasn't exactly fakers subs v. timberwolves subs. it was more like fakers subs. v. timberwolves starters.

This line up did a great job of coming back and winning the game for them. Bynum controlled the paint and had some key blocks. Evans and Vlad made big shots as well. Farmar hit a tough fade away in the paint. All 5 players on the floor played a well balanced game.

AGREED. andrew bynum anchored the middle, and by the time KG came back in the game, the damage was done and nothing could stop the bleeding.

But to say that they are better without kobe is not fair. After all, He did have 23 points.

DISAGREE. all OBJECTIVE evidence points to other conclusions.

tobe plays Q1, fakers lose 29-26

tobe sits Q2, fakers ahead 45-38

tobe plays Q2, fakers ahead 59-57 (lead went from +7 to +2)

tobe plays Q3, fakers lose 79-73 (lead went from +2 to -6)

tobe sits Q3 and Q4, fakers ahead 102-91 (lead went from -6 to +11!)

game is a wrap.

 

[cranrab]

In the 4th qt, in 3 minutes of play (and some change) Kobe had (i may be off by 1 here) 3 rebounds, 3 assists (good penetration passes to Vlad and Smush for 3's), 0 for 1 on fgs, and 1 of 2 on fts.

pretty good.

2 rebounds (only off by 1)

2 assists (only off by 1)

0-1 FGAs, 1-2 FTAs

1 PF (you forgot)

One thing Kobe needs to realize, is that with his penetration, teams are always going to clog the paint on him.

fakers opponents shouldn't clog the paint. they should allow tobe his reckless and undisciplined forays into the paint. they should invite him to shoot layups and score points. they could learn A LOT from watching coach jordan's D philosophy for the game played at staples.

tobe's FG% around the rim is dismal. tobe's decision making in the air is atrocious. the key is to play token D with the ball in tobe's hands, collapsing into the PASSING lane when tobe enters the air, and crashing the D glass immediately after tobe releases a shot.

To be a great player, it's not always about scoring (Nash).

steve nash is a much SMARTER player than tobe has ever been (and probably ever will be). steve nash's FG% as a PG is indicative of that.

Maybe Kobe will look at his benching in the 3rd and 4th qt as a sign and help THE team gain more success.

coach jackson is the one who should have learned something from that game. coach jackson should play tobe at the SF, not the SG, and should place tobe on the 2nd unit. that is where tobe could play with maximum efficiency.

 

[TimRock]

DISAGREE. all OBJECTIVE evidence points to other conclusions.

tobe plays Q1, fakers lose 29-26

tobe sits Q2, fakers ahead 45-38

tobe plays Q2, fakers ahead 59-57 (lead went from +7 to +2)

tobe plays Q3, fakers lose 79-73 (lead went from +2 to -6)

tobe sits Q3 and Q4, fakers ahead 102-91 (lead went from -6 to +11!)

game is a wrap.

When Kobe went to the bench, they were down 6. The Wolves lead ballooned to 12 (89 - 77) after he left. So that's a minus 6 without him at that point. Correct? But they (the bench and Cook) were able to dig out of that hole

Here's proof.
[FRAME]http://aol.nba.com/games/20061220/LALMIN/playbyplay.html[/FRAME]

the fakers started:

william parker
tobe
luke walton
brian cook
kwame brown

the squad on the floor when tobe left in Q3 was:

jordan farmar
sasha vujacic
maurice evans
bryan cook
andrew bynum

Ok, so all the starters went to the bench, minus Cook. Thats a big difference in saying Kobe left the game. They all left except Cook.

coach jackson should play tobe at the SF, not the SG

Agree. At one point when Kobe did play this position, he was averaging in double figures in rebounds. I forgot what season it was, but it only for a brief stint that he played the position.

and should place tobe on the 2nd unit

That would be interesting.

Time to see how they play againt the Nets. Kidd plays good defense on Kobe, and for some reason, Vince always seems to play (or tries to) big against Kobe.

 

[cranrab]

they (the bench and Cook) were able to dig out of that hole

i didn't need to see the play-by-play; i WATCHED the game, but thank you.

let's take this incrementally.

When Kobe went to the bench, they were down 6.

when tobe left, the fakers were down by 6 points. AGREED.

The Wolves lead ballooned to 12 (89 - 77) after he left.

the timberwolves increased their lead to as much as 12 during tobe's absence (in Q4). AGREED.

they (the bench and Cook) were able to dig out of that hole

actually, NO.

when Q4 began (as you should remember), vladimir radmanovic replaced bryan cook. this was a chess move by coach jackson, who countered coach casey's substitution of craig smith for kevin garnett.

but YES, the fakers 2nd unit was able to overcome the deficit which tobe left behind (6 points)

 

[cranrab]

3-3.

any honest souls care to comment on Q2 and Q3?

any brave souls care to comment on the last 2:26 of Q4?

for those entering this thread late, we're keeping tabs on how the fakers are doing without lamar odom in the lineup.

so far the win/loss is 3-3.

by comparison, the fakers are 3-0 without tobe in the lineup.

 

[TimRock]

I WATCHED the game,

Forgot who I was talking to, of course you WATCHED the game.

by comparison, the fakers are 3-0 without tobe in the lineup

Wouldnt it be fair to say who the teams were that that they played. A Suns team that started the season horribly. Golden State and Atlanta. Nuff Said. And all home games too.

The 3 losses without Lamar, 2 were on the road (Mavs and Bulls), and 1 ot loss at home to the Wizards.

 

[cranrab]

Wouldnt it be fair to say who the teams were that that they played. A Suns team that started the season horribly. Golden State and Atlanta. Nuff Said. And all home games too.

don't fall off the wagon now, TR.

i was just beginning to sense an attempt at HONEST discourse. now THIS mess?

the phoenix suns game was their season opener.
golden state was also their season opener.
atlanta was 8-9 when they played the fakers.

they were NOT all home games.

 

[TimRock]

they were NOT all home games

i came back to correct myself. The Golden State game was on the road.

i was just beginning to sense an attempt at HONEST discourse

I'm always honest.

 

[cranrab]

3-4.

maybe the FOUR CONSECUTIVE missed shots in 2:20 of Q1 had something to do with it?

or maybe the TWO CONSECUTIVE TOs in :28 of Q1 were a factor.

nah, those things couldn't possibly factor into a 30-16 Q1 that set the tone for the rest of the game.

when's lamar odom coming back again?

 

[xfactor]

What I want to know is... How is one of the "greatest defenders in the game" is continually getting torched for 40+ points by "lesser talented" SGs

On another note... Mark Jackson sucks up more to Bryant than Ahmad Rashad did to his "main man" Michael Jordan