will history repeat itself?
- Thread starter cranrab
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xfactor said:Two predictable double digit loses to the Grizzlies (worst team in the league) and the Rockets (playing without their MVP). Winning 3 out of 4 before playing San Antonio? Like I said above they will be 9-7 at best (8-7 currently) without Odom before they play the Heat on MLK day.
@ you thinking they could play .650 - .700 basketball without Odom in the lineup... Now without Bryant in the lineup, I think thats a different story
9-7 huh? Funny how this has changed! A couple weeks ago you said they would be lucky to be .500 when Odom came back! Funny how you let that go. And what 7 active players are more worthy of HOF than Kobe? Please identify those 7 and your source...
How would you know? Do you get a vote?
I hear the media refer to him as "the greatest player in the NBA" and "the greatest player since Jordan", so why dont you do your venting the people that are saying it most.
You guys obviously arent kobe or laker fans, so who are yall fans of? Im curious to know.
Are you serious?
Also minus Kwame, who did play in the 3 games that kobe was out, only to be fair.
Should the same thing be said for Pippen (nothing after Jordan), Robinson (no rings before Duncan) and Clyde (no rings before or after Hakemm)? Explain the difference.
That statement is pure opinion. Because the same thing can be said of Shaq, he didnt have a ring till he teamed up with a HOF Coach and a TRUE HOF Player. Newflash Cran, just because you dont think he belongs, Kobe will still be in the hall of fame. So therefor, all your facts, stats and opinions mean abolutely nothing. It's not going to change anything.
You can come on here after every Laker game and make your comments, but it only proves two things:
1 - You have no life.
2 - You are a Laker fan.
I mean, i have never seen someone hate another person so much, that they waste time calculating winning, shooting and losing percentages. Whats the point. Are you that obsessed with him? Talk about someone else for a change. You come out of nowhere with these threads then try to justify them by saying "people keep saying Kobe is the best this and that, blah blah blah". No ones saying anything. You are the one that keeps bringing his name up. You probably jerk off to his missed field goals. At first I just thought, OK this guy hates kobe. But then when i see all the threads you create about him, I'm like, ok, it must be deeper than that. Kobe must have done something personally to him. Whatever it was, get over it. There is a life outside of kobe.
BTW, Remember that statement you made to me. Something to the effect like this (i dont want to go back and look for it): "you are one of those people that hate howard stern but still watch his show to complain". But wait, isnt that what you are doing? You hate Kobe but yet you still watch him and then complain.
TrojansFan said:
How did I change when I said they'd be 9-7 at best (which is exactly what happened) without Odom before they play Miami on Monday when they were currently at 8-5
I know you arent the sharpest knife in the drawer but its obvious your reading comprehension skills are poor. 
And 9-7 (a game over .500) is meaningless at this point unless Odom is in the lineup in their next game. It's still plenty of time for them to go over or under .500 and Im banking on the latter.
Current players more HOF worthy than Bryant -
Tim Duncan
Shaquille O'Neal
Kevin Garnett
Allen Iverson
Steve Nash
Jason Kidd
Gary Payton
Remember the HOF is for individual achievement not riding O'Neal coattails to team success.
EDIT:
Michael Jordan's HOF rating - 731
Wobe Bryant's HOF rating - 189
Based on the numbers I think these two players being similar is a valid comparison
TimRock said:
Compare Bryant's career (minus TEAM achievement) to the players in question and see who is more HOF worthy
TimRock said:
I already have but the media is about promoting players for marketing purposes not talent. Gilbert Arenas is much more talented than Bryant but why isnt he getting the hype? As a fan of sports in general, I'd think you would know that.
TimRock said:
That's funny because I've gone on record as being a former fan of the lakers many times. I just didnt like the direction of the team after O'Neal was traded. That was possibly the dumbest trade of my lifetime and the lakers will never recover because they dont have enough talent to make it to the championship. Bryant doesnt have franchise player talent, leadership or intelligence... But then again most prep to pro players dont.
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TimRock said:
sure. and BGOL members don't thoughtlessly or carelessly regurgitate (and believe) that garbage. not a one.
sounds like someone wishes to divest themselves of an expectation to make responsible statements.TimRock said:
sigh. another irrelevant re-direct? for the millionth time, i'm a 76ers fan. been one since 1978. hasn't changed. but you don't see me running around making god-awful posts about AI being "the greatest player in the league".
or bringing up a guy named andrew toney, who is REALLY a player that deserves having the distinction of a scoring guard with a "killer instinct". or maurice cheeks, who made 4 CONSECUTIVE all defense 1st teams, unlike some supposed "shut out, lock down" guard we know. maurice cheeks also had a CAREER FG% that dwarfs that of this other player.more later.
TimRock said:
surely you jest. rookie david robinson took a rookie sean elliot and two veterans (one being maurice cheeks) and produced one of the leagues best turn-arounds ever: from 21-61 to 56-26 in a SINGLE season. that franchise never again missed the playoffs when david robinson was healthy.
going back to the inverse correlation, the fakers were LEAST effective in seasons where tobe started every game. tobe took the fakers to their WORST record and the pacific division cellar in over a decade. tobe took the fakers out of the playoffs. NO comparison.
a testament to david robinson's contribution was PROVEN in 1997 when he only played SIX games and the spurs finished 20-62.
excuse me while i fix a snack.
TimRock said:
YES.
if you are old enough to remember, scottie pippen was often referred to as the "2nd best player in the NBA". those knowledgable enough know that to be a farce, second only to the current far-fetched notion of tobe being the "best player in the league".
IF scottie pippen HAD BEEN the "2nd best player in the NBA", then scottie pippen would BY DEFAULT have been "THE best player in the NBA" when michael jordan retired in 1994 and 1995, right?
so what did scottie pippen do in those 1.8 seasons without michael jordan? lost the bulls' central division crown both seasons. failed to reach the NBA finals in both seasons.
so what should thoughtful observers have learned from 1994 and 1995? and what FACTS were CEMENTED from 1996-1998?
that scottie pippen road the gravy train behind a true HOF player in michael jordan and a HOF coach in phil jackson.
aside from the fact that michael jordan's full time return in 1996 resulted in the chicago bulls reclaiming the central division crown and winning three additional consecutive NBA finals, thoughtful observers should have also learned the other significant point: that coach winter's triangle O as implemented by coach jackson could yield successful results even with INFERIOR talent.
the lessons of the 1994 chicago bulls can be seen as history repeating itself with the 2006-2007 fakers now.
b.j. armstrong
pete myers
scottie pippen
horace grant
bill cartwright
this squad, using the triangle, finished 55-27 in 1993-94
b.j. armstrong
ron harper
scottie pippen
toni kukoc
will perdue
this squad, using the triangle, finished 34-31 in 1994-95
HOF player michael jordan and HOF player shaquille o'neal put everybody else on their backs and carried them to championship rings.
HOF coach jackson employed an innovative triangle O and produced winning results with INFERIOR talent, and championship results from SUPERIOR talent.
want more proof of scottie pippen's contributions?
did he help the rockets advance farther into the playoffs without the crutch of the triangle O?
NO.
did he help the trailblazers advance farther into the playoffs without the crutch of the triangle O?
NO.
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TimRock said:
OF COURSE. how does clyde drexler even get dragged into this discussion?
uh, didn't hakeem olajuwon and coach tomjanovich prove themselves the season BEFORE clyde drexler arrived?
maybe you don't remember that clyde drexler left a portland squad that was 25-20 when he left and joined a rockets team that was 29-16 when he arrived. maybe you further don't recall the turmoil that ensued as the rockets' record with clyde drexler was only 17-18 the rest of that season.
TimRock said:
sorry, no.
you dwell in a world of fantasy and fiction, while i am firmly rooted in reality. the sad truth is that you, like many other casual observers of phenomenon they don't actually understand, employ the logical fallacy of "confusing cause and effect" AKA "questionable cause" to understand the events of the world around you.
TimRock said:
AGREED.
the same COULD be asserted, but only by someone uneducated and ignorant of FACT.
HISTORICAL FACT CLEARLY ILLUSTRATES that the fakers played better WITHOUT tobe, and that the fakers played better WITH shaquille o'neal.
TimRock said:
you've repeated this statement a few times now. you do have deep-seeded emotional problems if you think people only write factual statements because they believe it will "change anything". i feel sorry for you, brother. TRULY. no jokes. look up "freudian projection".
TimRock said:
1 - there are THOUSANDS of bloggers, sports "journalists", assistant coaches, scouts, television commentators who do the EXACT same thing. but you assert i have no life.
maybe someone who has been on this board a little longer than you will inform you that most men WISH they had my life for at least a single day. maybe they will also inform you that from time to time, i get paid more than most americans make in an entire month for simply watching a SINGLE game (and even more during the playoffs).
2 - a faker fan? that statement is sub-moronic. is a WWII historian a "fan" of the third reich? is an oncologist a "fan" of cancer? this is by far your single most stupid comment.
TimRock said:
again for the millionth time, i don't hate tobe. what i DO hate is the losing euro style of basketball that tobe plays, and how it contaminates and infects good american basketball.
and again for the millionth time, i don't have to waste time calculating anything if i simply remember it. and since i know you aren't aware of it, there is also something called the elias sports bureau.
i will say this for you. you have no shame in speaking (in this case writing) out of ignorance. god bless you.
TimRock said:
i think the appropriate question is "are you obsessed with ME?"
i mean, whether it be on BGOL or here on the SPORTS board, you stay stalking my threads (this one for example), offering no FACTUAL points or counterpoints to the discussion, and letting fly with the ad hominem. that's another logical fallacy BTW. feel free to look it up.
TimRock said:
i believe my replies with regard to david robinson, scottie pippen and clyde drexler demonstrate that i'm well prepared to speak on other players.
who have you commented on again?
for that matter, remind me what other threads you've participated in the past few days?
TimRock said:
TR, your thoughts betray your immature and juvenile thought process.
if i were to comment that nevil chamberlain performed horribly as prime minister of england, would you conclude that i "hate" nevil chamberlain?
if i were to cite HISTORICAL EVENTS as proof, such as the munich pact, the nazi takeover of czechoslavakia, and the nazi invasion of poland, would you conclude that "it must be deeper than that"?
if i were to ACCURATELY point out that dim-witted supporters of nevil chamberlain GREW IN NUMBER DESPITE his dishonorable and unconscionable performance, would you conclude that nevil chamberlain "must have done something personally to" me?
your rationale is infantile. it's difficult to comprehend why a grown man would be so hyper-sensitive and opposed to TRUTHFUL statements that are occasionally critical. please research "internal/external attribution theory" to find out more about yourself.
i make FACTUAL statements supported by ample HISTORICAL EVIDENCE that can be verified by numerous credible independent sources.
you are a revisionist, who like mahmoud ahmadinejad, would rather supplant the truth with lies.
But who cares? Who would want a life where they sit and watch someone they "dislike"?
Not writing, typing. And you have no shame in showing how obsessed you are with Kobe.
And you stay creating threads about kobe and the lakers. So whats your point? If i created a thread and titled it "kobe", i'm sure you would come in.
You probably already know the answer to that. I'm sure you looked it up. Don't be mad at me because my life doesn't revolve around kobe, like yours.
So whats the point of writing it? No one cares but you. YOU keep bringing kobe up, no one else but you.
No comment on this huh?
Who? Who has mentioned this lately, besides me, and that was after you typed this? You just have to bring him up for no reason at all. Just tell me, WHY DO YOU KEEP MAKING THREADS ABOUT KOBE? All i want is answer. WHY ARE YOU SO OBSESSED WITH PROVING THAT HIS CAREER HAS NOT BEEN WHAT EVERYONE ELSE MAKES IT SEEMS? WHAT ARE YOU HOPING TO GAIN FROM THIS? Last time i checked, all the Kobe/Laker threads were created by you in the past few months, aside from the one that was posted with Kobes highlights.
TimRock said:
unfortunately, i am forced to watch many untalented euros like predrag stojakovic, dirk nowitzki, darko milicic, rasho nesterovic and others play. and again, since you seem unable to differentiate the two, i dislike the euro style of basketball an the degrading effect it has upon american team basketball. i don't have dislike for the men.
sadly, it appears that you have caught feelings for a man, and have not expressed many feelings about the man's actual game.
TimRock said:
i might. and that would be indicative of what? but why stray into the hypothetical? let's keep things in REALITY. YOU enter MY posts.
TimRock said:
i didn't. that's why i asked the question. and i'm fairly certain that's also why you dodged answering it.
TimRock said:
really? back to the fantasy world i see. put down your cape and pick up your meds. did i start the inane threads that:
celebrated meaningless scoring binges against dallas and toronto?
suggested that tobe deserved 2006 MVP because he dunked over steve nash?
or "has tobe officially lost a step?"
feel free to respond after the meds have kicked in.
TimRock said:
NO. because you so badly mangled the quote, it didn't even vaguely resemble my words. here it is again; try not to contort it to your twisted thinking this time.
"you're like those people who complain about howard stern, but tune in every day to hear what he will say next."
the difference, since you are clearly unable to discern it, is that howard stern's listenership tunes in for howard stern. people who watch BASKETBALL tune in for the BASKETBALL. if there is an individual whose play routinely disrupts his own team, it becomes apparent. thus come forth the critical comments on similar players like tobe, stephen jackson, and derek anderson. all three are similar players from the 1997 draft, but thankfully, the fans of the last two aren't stupid enough to suggest that they are the best players in the league.
so now that i've cleared that up, why again do you enter MY posts? even though you protest their very creation? because you are MY stan.
TimRock said:
calm down, son. it's not that serious. the answer you seek is one word: TRUTH.
TimRock said:
again with the questioning of motives? comport yourself with some dignity, young man. is your situation truly so dire that everything you do must be for some sort of gain?
TimRock said:
then you would be incorrect. but allow me to play devil's advocate. so what if they were? there is an ignore function you could employ, if you wished to do so. but then, what kind of stan would you be?
Well after the going back and forth guess what???? Lakers won 25 - 13. 32 more wins to what I said they would finish this year with 52 for you math heads. Now if they can just start playing defense too many teams are dropping 100+ against them, thats the real reason to most of these losses they are not playing good team defense, which once they do they will definitely be true contenders.
All I gotta say is. 24 FGAs out of 99 FGAs for the team.
That's almost exactly 25% of the total.......
equals a win over a quality opponent
That's almost exactly 25% of the total.......
equals a win over a quality opponent
Jae-Henchman951 said:
i think you mean 27 more wins to finish with 52 wins. if lamar odom comes back healthy, i wouldn't argue against the fakers being able to go 27-17 the rest of the way.
Jae-Henchman951 said:
the stats are a bit skewed due to the OT, 2OT, and 3OT games the fakers have had since lamar odom went out.
with lamar odom, fakers giving up 98+ ppg
without lamar odom, fakers giving up 108.5 ppg
when the fakers get their true floor leader back, and kwame brown brings his size back to the paint (for rebounding and blocked shots), you should see the opponent ppg come back down to average.
xfactor said:
How did I change when I said they'd be 9-7 at best (which is exactly what happened) without Odom before they play Miami on Monday when they were currently at 8-5
And 9-7 (a game over .500) is meaningless at this point unless Odom is in the lineup in their next game. It's still plenty of time for them to go over or under .500 and Im banking on the latter.
Current players more HOF worthy than Bryant -
Tim Duncan
Shaquille O'Neal
Kevin Garnett
Allen Iverson
Steve Nash
Jason Kidd
Gary Payton
Remember the HOF is for individual achievement not riding O'Neal coattails to team success.
EDIT:
Michael Jordan's HOF rating - 731
Wobe Bryant's HOF rating - 189
Based on the numbers I think these two players being similar is a valid comparison
Compare Bryant's career (minus TEAM achievement) to the players in question and see who is more HOF worthy
I already have but the media is about promoting players for marketing purposes not talent. Gilbert Arenas is much more talented than Bryant but why isnt he getting the hype? As a fan of sports in general, I'd think you would know that.
That's funny because I've gone on record as being a former fan of the lakers many times. I just didnt like the direction of the team after O'Neal was traded. That was possibly the dumbest trade of my lifetime and the lakers will never recover because they dont have enough talent to make it to the championship. Bryant doesnt have franchise player talent, leadership or intelligence... But then again most prep to pro players dont.
The red part of this post sums up my bball fandom for the last 7 years.....Loved the Lakers with Phil then the Shaq trade just straight turned me off.
I live in Miami. I was VERY happy for the Shaq trade however the way it went down was very Sabinish.(Terminology denoting the lies used to cover actual goings on as did Nick Saban).
In addition , with Butler and Odom alone the Lakers had the pieces to put together a serious playoff run....if Kobe was as good as advertised. The Lakers missed the playoffs that year and had the worst winning pct. of any Phil coached team. The drop off was sooo signifigant that the myth of Kobe died an obvious death. The only thing he did was to get a Scoring title the next year however failed to lead his team past an undersized Suns squad. Game seven of last years Suns- Lakers series should take away any impression of Kobe "willing" his team to victory.
To hear this guy with his older brother talk is just plain BS. Firstly he got that from Shaq, much like he did those rings. Secondly, he is not at the point where people would want to play with him...he is a selfish asshole that doesn't take credit for losses however will thump his chest when he wins. That is a sure sign of a punk.
Lastly, just look at the difference between the teams Shaq played for......I might get roasted for this............however...NOT EVEN JORDAN HAS HAD THE SAME FRANCHISE IMPACT AS SHAQ.
Shaq has taken three teams to the Finals. Jordan =1. That is not to say Jordan isn't the GOAT however Kobe's name doesn't even belong in a Championship conversation. Most Great players look a hell of a lot better when they can stay in the same situations year after year and win. However Shaq has gone to three different teams and has taken ALL of them to the FINALS.
If Nick Anderson could hit free throws and Wade didn't get hurt we might be talking about Shaq working on his 7 or 8th title right now.
Kobe is fraud as a great player. A great scorer? Yes. However without Shaq and those rings he would be reguarded as Alex English or Adrian Dantely in BBall history.
xfactor said:
Current players more HOF worthy than Bryant -
Tim Duncan
Shaquille O'Neal
Kevin Garnett
Allen Iverson
Steve Nash
Jason Kidd
Gary Payton
.
And you basing this off of what source???
Is this your opinion or someone who actually has basketball knowledge???
(i know this doesnt come from anybody with basketball knowledge, but please site your source anyway)
I will go record to say Duncan, O'Neal, and Payton are all clearly more worthy of HOF than Bryant, but you are reaching with those other names!
SpiritualPorn said:
SP,
Well said. I wonder how better the team would be with Caron Butler instead of Kwame Brown at this point.
But its hard to blame fans for their admiration of certain players because like TrojansFan and TimRock have proven, the media can influence the thinking of millions when they dont understand what is happening on the court.
Dwyane Wade outplayed Bryant once again last night yet where were the threads on BGOL dedicated to him?
As far as the Jordan and O'Neal comment... I cant say I totally agree but you would have a valid argument because everywhere Shaq went he took his team to the Finals which is remarkable. Im sure other legendary players would be able to do the same but I doubt the political side of the game as far as money and free agency was concerned was not as prevelant as it is now.
TrojansFan said:
In your opinion, who would qualify as someone who has "actual basketball knowledge" Because if thats the case you would be eliminating a lot of people.
The information comes from a basketball related website that uses statistics, player history, and player awards to see which is HOF worthy. I already posted the site above.
I also think it is funny that you said Steve Nash, Kevin Garnett, and Iverson are not more HOF worthy than Bryant when all of them have won NBA MVP awards (something your idol will never do) and Jason Kidd is one of the most versatile players in NBA history.
Please share with the board why I am "reaching" by mentioning the names of those players .
xfactor said:
In your opinion, who would qualify as someone who has "actual basketball knowledge" Because if thats the case you would be eliminating a lot of people.
The information comes from a basketball related website that uses statistics, player history, and player awards to see which is HOF worthy. I already posted the site above.
I also think it is funny that you said Steve Nash, Kevin Garnett, and Iverson are not more HOF worthy than Bryant when all of them have won NBA MVP awards (something your idol will never do) and Jason Kidd is one of the most versatile players in NBA history.
Please share with the board why I am "reaching" by mentioning the names of those players .
I do not think that he gets it.
Any real understanding of the game of basketball beyond highlighting allows someone to realize that Kobe is solely a scorer..and not even a great scorer. Jordan was a scorer who dominated games with well timed scoring...specifically late in games. He allowed the game to come to him and then took over when necessary and understand the importance of getting his supporting cast involved early.
The effect of 40 points from Jordan and 40 points from Kobe is just so vastly different it is even hard to compare them as scorers. Kobe scores and completely dominates the ball... no one else is even allowed to get into the flow of the game.. to share in the offensive contribution. Real scorers understand that is not always how many points you score..but how and when you score them. Late in games... when your team is slumping.. by attacking the basket and putting fouls on the other teams offensive threats. It is the type of basketball IQ that Kobe lacks. Ironically this is the type of ball that Arenas is playing right now... getting off late in games and hitting game winners. That is a great scorer..who scores in prime situations.
Kobe plays on athletic ability alone and does not have the basketball intelligence of Bird, Jordan, etc. He is not even in the same class and to even say so is a disgrace to those other great players.
And Kobe was a supporting cast member on those championship teams... a role player like Horry, etc. Although Shaq killed that whole.... he hasnt won one with out Kobe Bullshit...it should not have even been an argument in the first place. Shaq was the undisputed leader of those teams... He was the MVP of those teams... Kobe was a ROLE player. Kobe still has to prove he can win in the first place with another Hall of Famer carrying the load.
xfactor said:
In your opinion, who would qualify as someone who has "actual basketball knowledge" Because if thats the case you would be eliminating a lot of people.
The information comes from a basketball related website that uses statistics, player history, and player awards to see which is HOF worthy. I already posted the site above.
I also think it is funny that you said Steve Nash, Kevin Garnett, and Iverson are not more HOF worthy than Bryant when all of them have won NBA MVP awards (something your idol will never do) and Jason Kidd is one of the most versatile players in NBA history.
Please share with the board why I am "reaching" by mentioning the names of those players .
So you are using a basketball statistical refernce site to tell you you who is more worthy of HOF???
I am familiar with that site, that same site says that Kobe Bryant, Allen Iverson, Jason Kidd, Steve Nash are all more worthy of HOF than Gary Payton....
Do you not see a problem with that???
(which also means u lied when u put Gary Payton on your list of people more worthy of HOF than Bryant. It is true in my opinion, but if u r using that site it says Bryant and those other guards are more worthy than Payton - that is ridiculous and makes the whole HOF statistical rating garbage - TRY A DIFFERENT SOURCE!!!)
You use a computer based statistical program to tell you who belongs in HOF??? This is probably the most ridiculous statement ever made on this board!!!
TrojansFan said:
You just dont get it do you. If a website tracking the statistical achievement of players throughout the years by putting out subjective data, why wouldnt it be a good reference for seeing who and who isnt hall of fame worthy? Looking at the people who are rated and who are in, you'd think their system is credible.TrojansFan said:
You're right... Based on the numbers. Bryant is higher than Payton (although look at the last 4 years of Payton's career and I can guarantee you his rating has slipped) Funny you mention Allen Iverson. Whose score is over 50 points higher than Bryant's... Yet why is it that you say I was reaching to put him above Bryant?
TrojansFan said:
No because all of the players rated above Bryant also happen to be better players and have had better careers. But based on the man crush you have on him, I bet you think Bryant should be 3 place all time... Right behind Michael Jordan who's score is 550 points higher
But then again... Based on your opinion, Jordan's score should be much much lower, being that he is on the same level as Bryant right?
TrojansFan said:
How is it more rediculous that Jason Kidd, Allen Iverson, and Steve Nash arent more worthy than Payton? It's starting to become apparent that your feelings for players are starting to affect your judgement of talent. I'm starting to believe you are a woman.
TrojansFan said:
How is it? You still have yet to explain to the board how I was "reaching" by saying the players mentioned above were all more HOF worthy than Bryant. Are you mad that your boyfriend isnt even rated top 30 of all time? Are you mad he's "the greatest player since Jordan" yet isnt even a top 10 guard of all time?
@ TrojansFan getting his feelings hurt by a machine.TrojansFan said:
Yes it is funny how inept you are to basketball and your response proved you are no better than a woman liking a player because she likes the way he looks.
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HOF monitor site
For everyone reading this - View the HOF site and tell me if I'm in the wrong for thinking it is credible or is TrojansFan in the wrong for letting his feelings for players influence how he judges them
[FRAME]http://www.basketballreference.com/leaders/leadershof.htm[/FRAME]
For everyone reading this - View the HOF site and tell me if I'm in the wrong for thinking it is credible or is TrojansFan in the wrong for letting his feelings for players influence how he judges them
[FRAME]http://www.basketballreference.com/leaders/leadershof.htm[/FRAME]
Re: HOF monitor site
So I assume now you are conceeding that Kobe Bryant belongs in the HOF?
Because that what this data is saying!
But come on, Dirk Nowitzki more deserving than Reggie Miller?
Anfernee Hardaway more deseving than Paul Pierce?
Vlade Divac more deserving than Vince Carter or Elton Brand???
Anyway, since I have never said that Kobe is the best player in the NBA, this site doesn't dispute anything I have said. I only said he is one of the best players in the league and future HOFer. And this site as screwy as I think its ranking system is... validates what I have said. So please continue to use this as your guide and admit that Kobe's skills and achievements are HOF worthy!
xfactor said:
So I assume now you are conceeding that Kobe Bryant belongs in the HOF?
Because that what this data is saying!
But come on, Dirk Nowitzki more deserving than Reggie Miller?
Anfernee Hardaway more deseving than Paul Pierce?
Vlade Divac more deserving than Vince Carter or Elton Brand???
Anyway, since I have never said that Kobe is the best player in the NBA, this site doesn't dispute anything I have said. I only said he is one of the best players in the league and future HOFer. And this site as screwy as I think its ranking system is... validates what I have said. So please continue to use this as your guide and admit that Kobe's skills and achievements are HOF worthy!
SpiritualPorn said:
I read this and I have my opinion. Phil didn't coach the team when Caron Butler was there first off that was Rudy T and if you remember he quit with like a quarter left of the season. The Lakers much like last year were fighting for that 7 and 8 playoff spot with Rudy at the helm then when he quiet and who was it...I think Hamblen the assistant took over they really slid those final games. I think they could of made the playoff but thats only speculation. Would the lakers be better with Caron now? No I dont think so he's not what they need Kwame fits more into what they need. To me just because one player is better than the other if he don't fit the team wont flourish i.e the KNICKS. Ok and they didnt beat the Suns so what they was the 7th seed did you think they would of won at least 2 games? You speak of the Suns as if they sucked last year they went 7 with a good clipper team and 7 with the Mavs so did those teams barely make the cut last year? Yes Shaq has been on 3 teams that have went to the finals but dont discredit the swingman and 3 point shooters he has been blessed with. Magic didnt make the playoffs till a healthy Penny Hardaway came along and we all know Anderson and Scott were 3 point crazy. Lakers didnt make it until Kobe emerged and of course when Phil came aboard, and they had a slew of 3 point shooters over the years one of them is a friend of mine that has a ring. Of course miami with Wade and then you have their 3pt shooters coupled with the refs love for Wade who gets calls that Jordan feels jealous of. To me alot of people single out Shaq llike he is the sole reason to the team being sucessful I dont know if you was doing that but Im pointing that out as a general statement. Now with your last statement Im not sure if you mean if it wasnt for the rings that Kobe wouldn't be considered as great if thats the case who is Karl Malone, Gary Payton, Stockton, Barkley, Ewing? I think the bias on Kobe is kind of ridiculous in my perspective he was just not getting the fact that he needs his teammates clicked to him late last season and now he is playing the kind of ball I knew he could do once he opened his game up. He passes more and hes still wrong. Its a never ending debate but IMO hes the best in the game right now.
xfactor said:SP,
Well said. I wonder how better the team would be with Caron Butler instead of Kwame Brown at this point.
But its hard to blame fans for their admiration of certain players because like TrojansFan and TimRock have proven, the media can influence the thinking of millions when they dont understand what is happening on the court.
Dwyane Wade outplayed Bryant once again last night yet where were the threads on BGOL dedicated to him?
As far as the Jordan and O'Neal comment... I cant say I totally agree but you would have a valid argument because everywhere Shaq went he took his team to the Finals which is remarkable. Im sure other legendary players would be able to do the same but I doubt the political side of the game as far as money and free agency was concerned was not as prevelant as it is now.
Jordan is the man..GOAT....period.
I was just saying that Kobe is not in a real BBall history conversation.
It's like Cran expalined a while ago. Kobe is just a marketing tool. No REAL man that is successful and KNOWS BBAll would put Tobe on even a MAgic Johnson level.
After last years finals Kobe changed his game. He was even MORE exposed when Wade, playing team ball, WILLED HIS TEAM to victory.
eewwll said:
Thanks eewwll
After my divorce
I will be in Brazil to help you out with all those hunnies
Jae-Henchman951 said:
this comment is beneath you. where is your sportsmanship?
Jae-Henchman951 said:
"passing more" is too simplistic a take on the game. you should know this. and for the record, the season in which tobe averaged his MOST ASSISTS PER GAME was also the season the fakers had their worst record in over a decade and landed in the PUSSific division basement.
eewwll said:
This sums up the difference between a man with BBall knowledge and a fanboy riding his favorite players dick.
Great post eewwll
I swear you and Cran have similar writing styles......
Re: HOF monitor site
i didn't see exactly what statistics were used to derive the score, so i can't comment on the credibility.
i will note that there were some peculiar rankings (imo) regarding mark price, reggie theus and rod strickland, to name a few.
i found it amusing that scottie pippen and tobe have the exact same score, in light of the fact that i compared the two in this thread a couple days ago.
xfactor said:
i didn't see exactly what statistics were used to derive the score, so i can't comment on the credibility.
i will note that there were some peculiar rankings (imo) regarding mark price, reggie theus and rod strickland, to name a few.
i found it amusing that scottie pippen and tobe have the exact same score, in light of the fact that i compared the two in this thread a couple days ago.
eewwll said:
the timing of your post was perfect.
if you watched the recent fakers victory over the spurs, you had a pristine example.
Q2, tobe scores more than a third of his total points in the quarter. end result? fakers still trail at the half.
Q4, 9:40 left to play, fakers up by 1. over the next 3+ minutes, FOUR DIFFERENT FAKERS (not just 1) score and they push the lead to 10 points.
Q4, 4:00 left to play, fakers up by 7. tobe adds THREE CONSECUTIVE TURNOVERS IN ONE MINUTE
. spurs ahead by 1.Similar threads
