why tobe fails - in his own words

[Havoc]

welcome back H... did you catch gonzaga's implosion v. ucla?



i don't know whether the numbers look nice or not. those shooting percentages are FACT.



yes, we must disagree here again. a GOOD coach would play the percentages and be PRIMARILY concerned with shutting down the fakers starters NOT named tobe. as bourne out by the FACTS this season, the fakers still have a losing record when tobe shoots > 25 FGAs. LET HIM SHOOT! also bourne out by the FACTS this season, the fakers have a WINNING record (over .600) when tobe shoots 25 or fewer FGAs. IT'S BETTER FOR OPPONENTS TO ENCOURAGE TOBE TO SHOOT!



come on now, H. if lamar odom was only performing well 'recently', that wouldn't be able to skew his FG% over 67+ games.

the reason why tobe sports the poorest shooting percentage is because tobe takes the MOST shots OUTSIDE of the fakers set O. as i've explained NUMEROUS times, the triangle is a junior high school level O designed to CREATE HIGH PERCENTAGE SHOTS AND OPEN LOOKS for players who might not otherwise be able to do so on their own.

if you stay within the O and select your shots based on what is allowed to evolve, you WILL GET OPEN LOOKS AND HIGH PERCENTAGE shots. so these FG%:

brian cook 52.3% FGAs
chris mihm 50.4% FGAs
kwame brown 48.5% FGAs
lamar odom 47.3% FGAs
william parker 45.3% FGAs

represent what is POSSIBLE when the fakers choose to function within the structure of the O.

Uncle SAM is a bitch.

I refuse to watch anymore of the NCAA tournament.

Lamar Odom is a player that I love to watch with the ball in his hands. He can either really foul up the play, pass it to someone being double-teamed, or do something spectacular like scoring.

I believe that when Odom and Kwame Brown playing up to their potential (Smush Parker will play his part, as will all the other players), the Lakers are harder to beat. Off the topic a bit, what's going on with New Jersey? Where did this sudden urge to win come from? They've beaten the Spurs recently, and are currently on a eight (or is it nine?) game winning streak. Is Jason Kidd making a comeback in his career?

 

[Havoc]

Re: why tobe fails - in his own words fakers v. hornets

yes, i do. the fakers chances look great.

i pointed out in a different post that the fakers remaining schedule consists primarily of HOME games. while this is no guarantee of a victory, it certainly doesn't hurt.

in addition, their closest competition of sacramento, utah and new orleans all have been playing poorly, and the fakers head to head win over nok was a big step...

the fakers can't ask for more at this point in the season... they're in control of their own destiny if they continue to play winning basketball... sacramento, utah and new orleans are in the position of looking for help from other teams to defeat the fakers...

If Kwame Brown and Lamar Odom play at the level that we're seeing now, then the Lakers should fare well against whoever they face in the playoffs. Kwame Brown is scoring on offense and making it harder to score on defense (at least he's getting rebounds). Lamar Odom is SHOOTING! That in itself is a miracle. Coupled with the fact that he's actually making the shots is nothing less of a scientific phenomenom.

If the Lakers lose, then they just lose. The only thing that could stop them now are injuries or slack from players. Just to get out of the first round would be great, and would speak on the Lakers' ability to handle challenges (plus, few actually expected them to make the playoffs, so if they could get past the first round, then that would be making a statement).

 

[cranrab]

Re: why tobe fails - in his own words fakers v. hornets

"For the life of me" i still can not figure out why yall hate kobe so much, but pay so much attention to his stats.

when it comes to tobe, if you tell the TRUTH, you're automatically branded a hater... the statistics are an HONEST way to deliver the TRUTH. nothing more nothing less.

Even though Cranrab, i see your point about the stats you posted and they are very true.

ah, a MAN finally stood up in the wilderness. let me mark my calendar. you'd be surprised how many children on this board run around manufacturing statistics and feigning knowledge of a subject they know little about. worse still, they have the gall to suggest my statistics are not FACT.

But im just saying, i wouldnt waste my time doing that on someone i dont like.

i actually do the same for SEVERAL players. for the REAL talents of the league, not just the king pretender. since nobody is deifying those other players, i have NO need to refute bogus grandiose claims or set the record straight. BTW, these posts take me less than a total of 5 minutes (including statistics) to write.

by the way, what teams do you guys like?

my team is the philadelphia 76ers, and since people usually next ask which players i like, IMO TD and shaquille o'neal have been the 2 consistently best franchise players in the league for the past 7-8 seasons. BAR NONE.

 

[TrojansFan]

Re: why tobe fails - in his own words fakers v. hornets

yes, i do. the fakers chances look great.

i pointed out in a different post that the fakers remaining schedule consists primarily of HOME games. while this is no guarantee of a victory, it certainly doesn't hurt.

in addition, their closest competition of sacramento, utah and new orleans all have been playing poorly, and the fakers head to head win over nok was a big step...

the fakers can't ask for more at this point in the season... they're in control of their own destiny if they continue to play winning basketball... sacramento, utah and new orleans are in the position of looking for help from other teams to defeat the fakers...

WOW, Just two weeks ago you said you didn't think they would make the playoffs!

 

[cranrab]

Re: why tobe fails - in his own words fakers v. hornets

WOW, Just two weeks ago you said you didn't think they would make the playoffs!

give me a break. post PROOF. give us the link where i said that.

 

[cranrab]

Re: why tobe fails - in his own words fakers v. hornets

I made the same point on insidehoops.com

i took a look at the messageboard over there...

i didn't see your post, but it didn't take long to see the tobe fanboys waving the rainbow flags around...

 

[SpiritualPorn]

Re: why tobe fails - in his own words fakers v. hornets

Yeah, he lost a lot of fans with that rape trial. But i dont know, im the type of person that, if you good in ball, thats what i like you for. i dont care about your personality, or what you do off the court. Cause if that was the case, i would have brought his album and his shoes. I admit, there are times when im watching a game and i feel like yelling "Pass the damn ball kobe", like Snoop did in The Wash. But sometimes, he just does things that are amazing (81 points, 62 in 3 quarters, down by like 20 at home to dallas a few years ago, came back and took over to win the game, and shaqs last year, last game of the season they play Portland, kobe drains 2 3 point buzzer beaters to tie and win the game, and also get them the division title, lakers v pacers, game 4, back after an injury, shaq fouls out and he takes over, etc.) Thats what im watching for. I mean, truthfully if i were a friend of his, or a teammate, i would point out footage to him and let him know that there are times when he needs to pass the ball. Odom, Kwame and Luke have been playing really good lately and with great chemistry. But George and Smush have fallen off lately. But I have a feeling they will finish in the 7th seed and play Phoenix. Its gonna be hard for the lakers, but they do play better defense than the Suns. And defense is what counts in the playoffs. Nash is excellent. The whole team is very good. But after what happened to the Suns last night (Nash and Amare, no points), they are vulnerable. Put it like this, i like the lakers chances of an upset against the suns now, more than i did when Amare was out.

I am not really judging Kobe by his trial. He just seems like a phony. When the press tries to compare him to Jordan they get it wrong.

Kobe , so far, has not shown me he is even better than Steve Nash as far as an intelligent basketball player. He is on the sheer talent and drive tip right now.
If I were to start a team right now to play one basketball game to save my life
Kobe would not be on that team. I would start with Kidd,Nash and Shaq along with TD.

On the court......I saw Kobe throw away the Finals against Detroit, break up a team, frustrate his coach who has won 9 championships, sell out his teamates and not pass the ball, not shoot when he was getting heat from teammates.......shit , the list goes on and on.

Kobe can play his ass off however this is not NBA 2006 for PS2. This is a team sport.

Watch these NCAA games and look at how star players play within the offense

 

[TrojansFan]

Re: why tobe fails - in his own words fakers v. hornets

give me a break. post PROOF. give us the link where i said that.

Why do I need to post proof? Do you not remember your own opinions???
Anyway here it is...

i'm not sold on the fakers making the playoffs, so i can't see them making the 2nd round...

 

[Spectrum]

Re: why tobe fails - in his own words sonics v. fakers

the reason they can't see it is because they are IGNORANT. on top of that, their child-like adulation of tobe won't allow them to MAN UP and FACE FACTS.

here are more HISTORICAL FACTS that no-knowledge fakers fans and tobe supporting simps CAN'T REFUTE and NEVER ACKNOWLEDGE:

WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE 2001-2002 SEASON, AS THE NUMBER OF TOBE'S STARTS INCREASED, THE NUMBER OF FAKERS WINS DECREASED.

1999-2000

tobe starts: 62 games
fakers wins: 67 games (.817 winning percentage)

2000-2001

tobe starts: 68 games
fakers wins: 56 games (.683 winning percentage)

2001-2002

tobe starts: 80 games
fakers wins: 58 games (.707 winning percentage)

2002-2003

tobe starts: 82 games
fakers wins: 50 games (.610 winning percentage)

AS THE NUMBER OF TOBE'S STARTS DECREASED, THE NUMBER OF FAKERS WINS INCREASED.

2003-2004 season

tobe starts: 64 games
fakers wins: 56 games (.683 winning percentage)

IN THE TWO SEASONS WHERE TOBE STARTED EVERY GAME, THE FAKERS NEVER SURPASSED A .620 WINNING PERCENTAGE. THOSE TWO SEASONS WERE THE TWO WORST REGULAR SEASONS OF THE SHAQUILLE O'NEAL FAKERS ERA.

FACTS.

[crickets chirping]

I do not step in here often, but this specific post is the most important one of the entire thread...this is very telling.

 

[Spectrum]

Re: why tobe fails - in his own words fakers v. hornets

On the court......I saw Kobe throw away the Finals against Detroit, break up a team, frustrate his coach who has won 9 championships, sell out his teamates and not pass the ball, not shoot when he was getting heat from teammates.......shit , the list goes on and on.

Kobe can play his ass off however this is not NBA 2006 for PS2. This is a team sport.

Watch these NCAA games and look at how star players play within the offense

I am from Detroit and a Detroit Pistons fan. That shit even pissed me off...a player obviously sabotaging the series... will NEVER have my respect after that..no matter what he accomplishes at this point.

 

[cranrab]

i'm not sold on the fakers making the playoffs, so i can't see them making the 2nd round...

i wish they had a "rubbing my eyes in disbelief" smiley...

"i'm not sold on the fakers making the playoffs" DOES NOT EQUAL "i think the fakers will not make the playoffs"

 

[cranrab]

Off the topic a bit, what's going on with New Jersey? Where did this sudden urge to win come from? They've beaten the Spurs recently, and are currently on a eight (or is it nine?) game winning streak. Is Jason Kidd making a comeback in his career?

the answer is pretty simple. but OF COURSE because i said it, it will be hating.

the nets winning streak is up to 10 games as of tonight. no coincidence (to me) that 8 of those 10 games were victories over wORSTern conference teams... no coincidence (to me) that 4 of those 8 wORSTern conference teams are headed for the playoffs...

some will argue about home court advantage in the past 10 games, and there is a SMALL bit of merit to that point, but very slight. 6 of the 10 games were at HOME.

 

[TrojansFan]

the answer is pretty simple. but OF COURSE because i said it, it will be hating.

the nets winning streak is up to 10 games as of tonight. no coincidence (to me) that 8 of those 10 games were victories over wORSTern conference teams... no coincidence (to me) that 4 of those 8 wORSTern conference teams are headed for the playoffs...

some will argue about home court advantage in the past 10 games, and there is a SMALL bit of merit to that point, but very slight. 6 of the 10 games were at HOME.

This is the second time you've made the dumbass statement that the Eastern Confernce is better than the Western Confernce!

Eastern Confernce teams record vs Western Confernce teams: 180-241
Not even close!

The fact that a losing record will earn a playoof birth in the Eastern Confernce is just absolutely embarassing!

And if you saying "i'm not sold on the lakers making the playoffs" doesn't = i don't think they are going to make the playoffs. Are you actually suggesting that "i'm not sold on the lakers making the playoffs" is your way of saying you think they will make the playoffs? Get The Fuck Out Of Here!

I'm noticing you have a hard time admiting when you are wrong!

 

[SpiritualPorn]

Re: why tobe fails - in his own words fakers v. hornets

I am from Detroit and a Detroit Pistons fan. That shit even pissed me off...a player obviously sabotaging the series... will NEVER have my respect after that..no matter what he accomplishes at this point.

You and I were going back and forth about "The Matrix" on the main board at the time.

I might have teams that I like however I am a basketball fan. What he did was a disgrace to his team, himself, and basketball.

I fully agree with your statement.

 

[TimRock]

Re: why tobe fails - in his own words fakers v. hornets

I am from Detroit and a Detroit Pistons fan. That shit even pissed me off...a player obviously sabotaging the series... will NEVER have my respect after that..no matter what he accomplishes at this point.

So detroit gets no credit for their victories? Come on now, Detroit played great ball in this series. And their defense was better than any of the teams that the lakers played in the west. They were a lucky shot from Fischer away from not beating the spurs. Sure kobe had a bad shooting series against Tayshaun. Tayshaun also locked down McGrady as well, and no one said T-Mac sabotage that series. And the Magic was up 3 to 1. No one blamed T-mac for losing that series.There are also other factors to look at. Karl Malone wasnt 100%. Chauncy was abusing Payton. Add those things together and they can hardly be one persons fault. Shaq was damn near locked down by Ben Wallace. He couldnt defend elden campbell. And defesively, with Malone out, we had no one to stop Corliss Williamson. You can blame that whole series on Kobe. Cause if im correct, the only game they won, Kobe won it for them.

On another note, someone made a comment about Wade getting his team to the second round, and kobe not being able to do that. How long did it take KG to get to the second round. T-Mac still hasnt seen a second round. Lebrons been in the league as long as wade and doesnt even have a playoff appearance yet. So why will kobe be put down if he doesnt get his team to the second round. Some had them not even making the playoffs.

 

[cranrab]

And if you saying "i'm not sold on the lakers making the playoffs" doesn't = i don't think they are going to make the playoffs. Are you actually suggesting that "i'm not sold on the lakers making the playoffs" is your way of saying you think they will make the playoffs?

WOW. maybe you just need to start reading my posts OUT LOUD or something... i don't know what, but ANYTHING that might help your comprehension...

or maybe my posts about the fakers get you too emotional to respond rationally...

check these statements and see if the difference becomes more clear:

1a) i'm not sold on aaron brooks leading the raiders into the playoffs
1b) aaron brooks will not lead the raiders into the playoffs

2a) i'm not sold on the angels returning to the world series
2b) the angels will not return to the world series

3a) i'm not sold on the 76ers making the playoffs
3b) the 76ers will not make the playoffs

GOT IT yet? in sentences (a) i can still become 'sold' on the idea, or in other words, become more (or less) convinced of that position... in sentences (b) i am firmly stating my position...

damn.

 

[cranrab]

say what?

Shaq was damn near locked down by Ben Wallace.

i just want to make sure we're talking about the same series here. are you referring to the 2004 nba pistons v. fakers finals?

because shaquille o'neal averaged 26.6 ppg on 63.1 FG% that series.

just to give perspective to that feat, tobe averaged 22.6 ppg on 38.1 FG% that series.

when you consider that tobe averaged 3.6 TOs per game in that series, AND that tobe averaged 14 MISSED FGs PER GAME while he had a teammate that was shooting 63.1%, i not only think it's FAIR to say that tobe lost that series, i think it's just PLAIN FACT.

that's an AVERAGE of 15+ changes of possession in the NBA FINALS coming from ONE player...

 

[xfactor]

@ some of the people in this thread. It's clear that some of you are obvious drones of ESPN and have no idea what you are talking about. Even going back to my Joe Johnson thread, in my opinion, Wobe isnt even top 5 for NBA players that start at SG. I want to know why people think he is so good. Is it because he rode Shaq's coattails to 3 NBA titles? Is it because he came directly out of highschool? Or is it because of the 81 point game? It cant possibly be because of his on the court play because if it wasnt for his scoring, he'd flat out suck. His defense is mediocre on his best day. His court awareness is below average. His ball handling is suspect. His decision making is poor. His passing (does he even know how to do it) is poor. So I want to see what all the fuss is about saying he is the greatest player since Jordan. Someone explain this to me.

 

[xfactor]

Notes (per yahoo.com from the Spurs/lakers game)

Parker returned after missing his first game of the season because of a bruised right shin. ... Lakers coach Phil Jackson said he's hopeful C Chris Mihm, who has missed nine games because of a sprained right ankle, within the next two weeks. ... San Antonio's Beno Udrih didn't play due to a sprained left ankle. Udrih started the game Parker missed -- a 98-87 win over the Clippers on Tuesday night. ... The Spurs have won eight of their last nine games against the Lakers and the last five between the teams at Staples Center. ... Bryant has scored 20 or more points in 53 straight games. ... The loss was the Lakers' 35th, tying the most ever by a Jackson-coached team in his 15 NBA seasons. His 1994-95 Chicago Bulls were 47-35.


So you BGOL experts mean to tell me, the best player in NBA history since Jordan retired has led a team coached by arguably the best of coach all time to his all time high in regular season losses? @ people that think Wobe is a top player.

 

[TrojansFan]

@ some of the people in this thread. It's clear that some of you are obvious drones of ESPN and have no idea what you are talking about. Even going back to my Joe Johnson thread, in my opinion, Wobe isnt even top 5 for NBA players that start at SG. I want to know why people think he is so good. Is it because he rode Shaq's coattails to 3 NBA titles? Someone explain this to me.

Yes you are confused! Because last time I checked Shaq won zero NBA titles without Kobe!!! Don't get me wrong, Shaq was the MVP on the Lakers team for all 3 titles, but without Kobe no titles! Shaq won nothing before he had Kobe's help and he had some pretty damn talented teams in Orlando! And Shaq has won nothing after Kobe eventhough he has a pretty damn good team Miami including Dwayne Wade who you say is a top 5 SG (and I do agree).

SO PLEASE CUT THE SHIT ABOUT KOBE NOT WINNING ANYTHING WITHOUT SHAQ! BECAUSE SHAQ HASN'T WON SHIT WITHOUT KOBE!!!

I find it funny that you think people here on this board are confused for thinking Kobe is great player. Because 99% of NBA players and coachs all say Kobe Brynat is a great player, so I guess they are confused as well, but what the hell do they know???

 

[SpiritualPorn]

Re: why tobe fails - in his own words fakers v. hornets

i took a look at the messageboard over there...

i didn't see your post, but it didn't take long to see the tobe fanboys waving the rainbow flags around...

I'm over there as NUBaller

I really see what you were saying about the marketing of Kobe to young people.
They are so owned by the press that when you put Kobe in the proper historical perspective , they refer to his COMMERCIAL and say we are HATING ?????

Silly.

One guy made the point that Kobe will not even be an all time great on his OWN TEAM , putting Kareem,Wilt,Magic,West , then Shaq ahead of him. As of this writing the Lakers have lost to the Spurs giving PJ the most losses in a season since MJ retired the first time in 93. That would damn near put Kobe without Shaq in the Pippen range and they still got deep in the playoffs (bulls).

When Kobe leads his team to the WCF I will give him props because his team is good enough right now to get further than they are. Put Nash on the Lakers and you would really see how much better the talent is.

 

[TimRock]

@ some of the people in this thread. It's clear that some of you are obvious drones of ESPN and have no idea what you are talking about. Even going back to my Joe Johnson thread, in my opinion, Wobe isnt even top 5 for NBA players that start at SG. I want to know why people think he is so good. Is it because he rode Shaq's coattails to 3 NBA titles? Is it because he came directly out of highschool? Or is it because of the 81 point game? It cant possibly be because of his on the court play because if it wasnt for his scoring, he'd flat out suck. His defense is mediocre on his best day. His court awareness is below average. His ball handling is suspect. His decision making is poor. His passing (does he even know how to do it) is poor. So I want to see what all the fuss is about saying he is the greatest player since Jordan. Someone explain this to me.

I can respect someones opinion, or even respect them more when they post facts. But you seem to act like you know everything. Just because you say so, kobe is not good? He rode shaqs coattails huh? How many rings did Shaq have before kobe and phil came? None. There was a point where people were counting how many times Shaq would get swept out of the playoffs. Lets see how many times was he swept without Kobe? Now i may be wrong here, but im sure someone will correct me. There was the Rockets, Pacers, Bulls, Jazz (twice i think) and the Spurs. Now, How many times was he swept with Kobe as a starter? Once. He had Eddie Jones, Rick Fox, Elden, Ceballos, and Nick, and you getting swept? Come on now. For people to say kobe rode shaq is stupid. Kobe wouldnt have any rings without shaq either. But let me ask you this, who's legacy would suffer more? The Most Dominant Player in the game or Kobe? Shaq would still be in HOF and one of the 50 greatest. But without that ring, he would be considered worst off than Ewing and Barkley. Cause we all know who they had to go thru to win their rings. Shaq was up against others that were great, so what happened? Now, as for that Piston series. Shaq is gonna get his 20 to 30 no matter what. And he will always shoot a high percentage cause its not like hes taking 3's. Lets go back to all the other series that Shaq has lost when he averaged 20 to 30 points and shot over 50%. Why did he lose those series? Kobe wasnt on his teams in Orlando. He wasnt getting much playing time when he first got to LA. So why did Shaqs team still lose with him having those great stats. Let me guess, Nick Anderson couldnt make free throws. Nick couldnt contain stockton. Eddie couldnt guard 50 year old Hornacek. They didnt have good coaches. These are the answers yall will give right? But lets count how many series shaqs team has won with Kobe starting? I dont even have time to look that up right now. But i bet its way more compared to when shaq and kobe werent playing together or when kobe wasnt starting.I will be the first to admit that kobe does make bad decisions. And yes his defense has gone down over the past couple of years. But when people just start talking like what they say is bond, then thats crazy. Your opinion means nothing. Post facts like Cranrab. Thats why i respect what he says. Cause he posts facts and he backs up what he says. XFactor on the other hand just straight out tells us we are wrong. You sound like kobe took your girl or something. You seem pretty upset in your last post. Kobe may not be in YOUR top 5. But then again, why does your top 5 really matter? I bet all the coaches would put him in the top. All the analyst (except Barkley). All the players. Probably even everyone on this board, except you. People who hate him would put him up there. And i never said he was the greatest player since jordan. I would never even go that far. Maybe you have been watching too much ESPN. Is he great? No. Is he good? yes. Are there parts of his game that he needs to work on? Hell yeah. Every player in the league has something they can work on. No one is great right now. Not Lebron, not Nash, not Wade. None of them are great players.

 

[TimRock]

Re: why tobe fails - in his own words fakers v. hornets

When Kobe leads his team to the WCF I will give him props because his team is good enough right now to get further than they are. Put Nash on the Lakers and you would really see how much better the talent is.

I think they are one good veteran away from getting to the WCF. They need a defensive minded power forward. I agree with that statement about Nash. he does make everyone better.

 

[cranrab]

why tobe fails - in his own words spurs v. fakers

originally posted DECEMBER 8, 2005

the fakers can manage/tolerate < 10 of tobe's FGATOs, but if he has > 25 FGAs, the team is going to suffer and lose... PERIOD...

*yawn*

tobe went 9-26 FGAs, fakers lose...

what a suprise...

for those who didn't watch, Q3 and Q4 were very interesting...

the fakers trailed by 1 point at halftime... in Q3, the spurs SECOND unit came in and outscored the fakers (WITH tobe on the floor), opening up a 18 point lead...

when coach jackson SAT tobe to start Q4, the fakers SECOND unit came in and cut the deficit to 9 points...

when tobe re-entered the game in Q4 (after 5+ minutes on the bench) the fakers floundered and their doom was sealed...

17 missed FGAs, GAME HIGH 6 TOs, 3 PFs = 20+ changes of possession from ONE PLAYER... how'd the fakers lose again?

SCIENCE...

 

[SpiritualPorn]

Re: why tobe fails - in his own words fakers v. hornets

I think they are one good veteran away from getting to the WCF. They need a defensive minded power forward. I agree with that statement about Nash. he does make everyone better.

Thats the point Tim , Kobe resents anyone that can challange him.

At this point I really don't see him deferring to a veteran.

Shaq on the other had has players following him to different teams. (GP , etc...)

A man knows his strength and weaknesses........Kobe only knows his strength at this point.

To be fair to Kobe , he has come through alot to get to where he is. (The rape charge and the subsequent public embarassment). However he brought it on himself. I am looking forward to a better Kobe as a person. A more real person that will be a better leader.

 

[cranrab]

tobe fails

I'm over there as NUBaller

i went to insidehoops for the last time... did a search by your username so i could see the thread you were referring to, but nothing came back...

so i decided to check out a couple threads and nearly vomited when i saw some comments by posters that said tobe MIGHT BE a better player than earvin johnson and larry bird were.



but i didn't make up my mind to leave until i read the comment that tobe DEFINITELY IS a better player than julius erving was.

 

[TimRock]

Re: tobe fails

i went to insidehoops for the last time... did a search by your username so i could see the thread you were referring to, but nothing came back...

so i decided to check out a couple threads and nearly vomited when i saw some comments by posters that said tobe MIGHT BE a better player than earvin johnson and larry bird were.



but i didn't make up my mind to leave until i read the comment that tobe DEFINITELY IS a better player than julius erving was.

I dont agree with any of those statements. Those players will never be replaced. There will never be a player that is greater than magic, bird, jordan, etc. Those players made their mark in the game and will never be replaced.

 

[xfactor]

Yes you are confused! Because last time I checked Shaq won zero NBA titles without Kobe!!! Don't get me wrong, Shaq was the MVP on the Lakers team for all 3 titles, but without Kobe no titles! Shaq won nothing before he had Kobe's help and he had some pretty damn talented teams in Orlando! And Shaq has won nothing after Kobe eventhough he has a pretty damn good team Miami including Dwayne Wade who you say is a top 5 SG (and I do agree).

So answer me this question TF (since you seem to like to dodge questions)... Explain to me what Wobe did in the lakers' championship run that was so beneficial to the team that his presence could not be replaced if he was out with an injury? Since the team could not have won without him (and I think differently) tell me how he was so important to the team that without him, they would have never beated Indiana, Philadelphia, or New Jersey to win the 'chip.

I think Derek Fisher and Robert Horry were far more important to the laker's championship run than Wobe was.

SO PLEASE CUT THE SHIT ABOUT KOBE NOT WINNING ANYTHING WITHOUT SHAQ! BECAUSE SHAQ HASN'T WON SHIT WITHOUT KOBE!!!

I think the Miami Heat has a good chance to go to the Finals this year so we will see how long that lasts but I can assure you that Wobe will not win a championship (or even get back to the finals) for the rest of his career unless he is coming off the bench or becomes a limited contributor with limited minutes. He is just not capable of leading a team far into the playoffs.

I find it funny that you think people here on this board are confused for thinking Kobe is great player. Because 99% of NBA players and coachs all say Kobe Brynat is a great player, so I guess they are confused as well, but what the hell do they know???

And yet you and TR still could not answer the simple question I posed to you Wobe fans and that is 'Someone explain to me why he is so great'. 99% of NBA players and coaches think Bryant is a great player eh? Since you obviously know 99% of the coaches and players in the NBA to make that statement (since TR says facts are all that matter) please post the survey you took on the board so I can be proved wrong.

 

[xfactor]

First of all... Do you not have a 'return' key on your keyboard?

Come on now. For people to say kobe rode shaq is stupid.

It's stupid huh? We can look back to as early as last season to see what happened once Shaq left the lakers... 56 wins in '04 and 34 wins in '05. I'm speaking off the top of my head but didnt Shaq improve the Miami Heat's record from 42 wins in '04 to 59 wins in '05. If Wobe did not ride Shaq and had EQUAL value to the team then why was it such as fall off when Shaq left? You'd think that a player that is entering his prime like Wobe would be able to pick up the slack. I mean couldnt a player of equal value in a 4 out of 5 years final run be able to ATLEAST lead his team to a 41-41 (.500) record. Something Shaquille O'Neal has done in every season of his career? I posed a question to you and your fellow Wobe fan club member to explain to me why he is so great, why havent you answered it yet?

Kobe wouldnt have any rings without shaq either. But let me ask you this, who's legacy would suffer more? The Most Dominant Player in the game or Kobe? Shaq would still be in HOF and one of the 50 greatest. But without that ring, he would be considered worst off than Ewing and Barkley. Cause we all know who they had to go thru to win their rings. Shaq was up against others that were great, so what happened?.

Wobe wouldnt even put up a 45 win season without Shaq. Wobe's legacy will always be he was second fiddle to Shaq. Why do you think he is trying his best to prove (on his own, disregarding his teammates) that he is better? Why do you think he took almost 50 FGA in one game to score 81 points? You dont think that has anything to do with trying to get out of Shaq's shadow? In my opinion, I dont think Bryant cares about winning at all. He's already got 3 more titles than most players will in their career so its time to put up numbers now so he can be compared with the all time greats and thats what I have interpreted from his play since the '04 NBA Finals - now.

XFactor on the other hand just straight out tells us we are wrong. You sound like kobe took your girl or something. You seem pretty upset in your last post. Kobe may not be in YOUR top 5. But then again, why does your top 5 really matter? I bet all the coaches would put him in the top.

Maybe I'm going senile at the ripe old age of 22 but when did I ever say if a person doesnt agree with me they are flat out wrong? Did I ever say everything that I post is the gospel? I never post the facts huh? My post on Wobe being the ultimate clutch player was filled with FACTS. But I guess you didnt see that though because its not a FACT unless you agree with it. I know of 2 head coaches off the top of my head that definitely wouldnt put him in the top 5 and would name more than 5 players they'd rather have LEAD their team right now than Bryant.

All the analyst (except Barkley). All the players. Probably even everyone on this board, except you. People who hate him would put him up there. And i never said he was the greatest player since jordan. I would never even go that far. Maybe you have been watching too much ESPN. Is he great? No. Is he good? yes. Are there parts of his game that he needs to work on? Hell yeah. Every player in the league has something they can work on. No one is great right now. Not Lebron, not Nash, not Wade. None of them are great players.

LeBron, Nash, and Wade are all better players than Wobe and all 3 of those players will go to the hall of fame off their own merit. Again, you say I dont post FACTS but you make an even broader claim than I saying (All the players) will say Bryant is a top player. You can post your survey too, stating that since you only make strong statements like that posting the facts to back it up.

I never said Bryant was a terrible player... I've always said he had some skill but in my opinion, he has never lived up to his potential and never will. He could have been a lot better than he is but he doesnt understand how to play the game effectively.

And if you actually think Bryant is a good defender, ball handler, has a strong court awareness, and is clutch... I challenge to watch an actual lakers' game and make an argument to dispute everything I have just said. You might want to go through a lot of tape though because its going to be rather difficult to prove otherwise.

 

[TimRock]

First of all... Do you not have a 'return' key on your keyboard?



It's stupid huh? We can look back to as early as last season to see what happened once Shaq left the lakers... 56 wins in '04 and 34 wins in '05. I'm speaking off the top of my head but didnt Shaq improve the Miami Heat's record from 42 wins in '04 to 59 wins in '05. If Wobe did not ride Shaq and had EQUAL value to the team then why was it such as fall off when Shaq left? You'd think that a player that is entering his prime like Wobe would be able to pick up the slack. I mean couldnt a player of equal value in a 4 out of 5 years final run be able to ATLEAST lead his team to a 41-41 (.500) record. Something Shaquille O'Neal has done in every season of his career? I posed a question to you and your fellow Wobe fan club member to explain to me why he is so great, why havent you answered it yet?



Wobe wouldnt even put up a 45 win season without Shaq. Wobe's legacy will always be he was second fiddle to Shaq. Why do you think he is trying his best to prove (on his own, disregarding his teammates) that he is better? Why do you think he took almost 50 FGA in one game to score 81 points? You dont think that has anything to do with trying to get out of Shaq's shadow? In my opinion, I dont think Bryant cares about winning at all. He's already got 3 more titles than most players will in their career so its time to put up numbers now so he can be compared with the all time greats and thats what I have interpreted from his play since the '04 NBA Finals - now.



Maybe I'm going senile at the ripe old age of 22 but when did I ever say if a person doesnt agree with me they are flat out wrong? Did I ever say everything that I post is the gospel? I never post the facts huh? My post on Wobe being the ultimate clutch player was filled with FACTS. But I guess you didnt see that though because its not a FACT unless you agree with it. I know of 2 head coaches off the top of my head that definitely wouldnt put him in the top 5 and would name more than 5 players they'd rather have LEAD their team right now than Bryant.




LeBron, Nash, and Wade are all better players than Wobe and all 3 of those players will go to the hall of fame off their own merit. Again, you say I dont post FACTS but you make an even broader claim than I saying (All the players) will say Bryant is a top player. You can post your survey too, stating that since you only make strong statements like that posting the facts to back it up.

I never said Bryant was a terrible player... I've always said he had some skill but in my opinion, he has never lived up to his potential and never will. He could have been a lot better than he is but he doesnt understand how to play the game effectively.

And if you actually think Bryant is a good defender, ball handler, has a strong court awareness, and is clutch... I challenge to watch an actual lakers' game and make an argument to dispute everything I have just said. You might want to go through a lot of tape though because its going to be rather difficult to prove otherwise.

I answered your question already. I said I do not think Kobe is great. Maybe you should re-read what i posted. And no my keyboard does not have a return key. It has an "Enter" key. What was the point of you asking me that? I hope its not because i made a grammar mistake. Cause i see a couple in your post as well. But thats not the topic so i could care less about mistakes people make on here. Now, shooting 28 of 46 to get 81 points: you think thats not good. he shot over 50%, they were down double digits, come on now. He was simply trying to win the game. That game had nothing to do with stepping out of shaqs shadow. Ok, The Heat got better, but what have they accomplished so far? Nothing. You said Lebron, Wade and Nash will go to the HOF off their own merit? Why wont kobe? He had nothing to do with those championships? If Pippen didnt have Jordan, would he have any rings? Is Pippen going to the HOF because of Jordan? Again, you didnt read what i said. I said i agree that his defense has declined in the past couple of seasons.

 

[TimRock]

Question

Now i have nothing against Wade, Lebron, Nash, T-Mac, Vince, etc. but why was Kobe voted into the Greatest 60 Players of all time and not Nash or the others. I know most of you will say that the media blah blah blah, but the voting wasn't only done by the media. And its not like Kobe was #59. He was was #52 right behind Tim Duncan. 52!!! Thats right before Nique. Am I saying Kobe is better than Nique, hell no. When i was watching this special during all-star weekend, there was only one person, according to Ernie Johnson, that didnt vote for Kobe, and that was Barkley. So being included into this elite class, i ask you, does this make Kobe "Great"? Im a kobe fan and i still dont say hes a great player. Sorry i dont have a copy of the show, but im sure if you google "60 greatest nba players" you will find something.

(got to make sure i hit that "return" key)

But seriously, i respect everyones opinions. Like i said, i have been a kobe fan since he first arrived. From when he banged it on Ben Wallace (while he was with washington) in a preseason game till now. And i can honestly say, that sometimes, i have a hard time figuring out why people say he should be in the HOF, or why he is one of the greatest. I actually sit back and think about it sometimes. Should he be there? I dont know. I have no vote in that.

By the way, i know everyone has their top 5 SG's, so heres mine. In no particular order.

Iverson
Wade
Kobe
Ray Allen
Paul Pierce

 

[xfactor]

And no my keyboard does not have a return key. It has an "Enter" key. What was the point of you asking me that?

Because you wrote a long ass paragraph with out spacing it even ONCE. Stuff like that makes for uncomfortable reading.

Now, shooting 28 of 46 to get 81 points: you think thats not good. he shot over 50%, they were down double digits, come on now. He was simply trying to win the game.

I'm not saying it wasnt good... But if he is putting up 46 shots, he should have been around 90-92 points in that game. Yeah, his scoring led the team to a comeback but if I remember correctly, the lakers had the game won with about 5 or 6 minutes remaning and Bryant only had 60 points. So thats a useless 20+ extra points to pad his stats. Or maybe he was trying to 'punish' Toronto like D. Miles said he was going to do to the T'Wolves in the season opener.

Ok, The Heat got better, but what have they accomplished so far? Nothing. You said Lebron, Wade and Nash will go to the HOF off their own merit? Why wont kobe? He had nothing to do with those championships? If Pippen didnt have Jordan, would he have any rings? Is Pippen going to the HOF because of Jordan? Again, you didnt read what i said. I said i agree that his defense has declined in the past couple of seasons.

They've completely reinvented themselves and went from the NBAs bottom playoff teams to a contender. All because of O'Neal. LeBron has carried his team to the playoffs this year. Wade did it his rookie year. Nash completely revitalized the Suns organization, all of those players are getting their individual accolades, but they are doing it within the TEAM. The lakers' are in the 7th spot now but even they havent clinched it. They could still fall out of the race. If Wobe didnt play with Shaq and win those titles, his career would be completely different. He'd be just like Garnett.

 

[xfactor]

Re: Question

Now i have nothing against Wade, Lebron, Nash, T-Mac, Vince, etc. but why was Kobe voted into the Greatest 60 Players of all time and not Nash or the others.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but If I remember right, that was a TNT thing and not an OFFICIAL NBA recognition. That list holds no merit outside the opinion of the TNT analysts.

But seriously, i respect everyones opinions. Like i said, i have been a kobe fan since he first arrived. From when he banged it on Ben Wallace (while he was with washington) in a preseason game till now. And i can honestly say, that sometimes, i have a hard time figuring out why people say he should be in the HOF, or why he is one of the greatest. I actually sit back and think about it sometimes. Should he be there? I dont know. I have no vote in that.

I used to be a Wobe fan too. Growing up as a youngster (I think I was 12 when Bryant entered the league) I thought it was cool for a guy being close to my age come out of highschool to compete with LEGENDS of the game , win the dunk contest, put up numbers when given the opportunity. But once I got older, and more knowledgeable of the game, I realized that Wobe wasnt anything like the media brought him up to be. His on the court play was destructive to his team. He played like guys in my highschool league that were D-1 prospects that felt the need to alienate their teammates to showcase their skill everynight to get the attention/glory and make that the number 1 priority over team play. And even years later, Wobe still plays like he is at the highschool level which magnified with the departure of Shaq.

 

[SpiritualPorn]

Re: tobe fails

i went to insidehoops for the last time... did a search by your username so i could see the thread you were referring to, but nothing came back...

so i decided to check out a couple threads and nearly vomited when i saw some comments by posters that said tobe MIGHT BE a better player than earvin johnson and larry bird were.



but i didn't make up my mind to leave until i read the comment that tobe DEFINITELY IS a better player than julius erving was.

No threads......I just reply to certain posts on there.

The Kobe Lovers over there are soooooooo stupid I wouldn't even start a thread.

Kobe better than Dr.J?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

WTF!?!?!?!?!?!?!?


I think that Kobe's outstanding performances in the playoffs and Finals during the Dynasty years have distorted alot of perspectives.

The Dynasty Kobe was A BETTER KOBE THAN WE SEE NOW

Last night Kobe takes 38 shots and scores 43 ?????????? The Sonics couldn't buy a bucket. The Lakers played good team defense also.

There are a few good resources and some intelligent discussions on inside hoops,however the 12 year old groupies

 

[cranrab]

i recant

i take back everything i've ever said about kobe's ill game... after watching kobe's fantastic night v. the sonics, i've decided that kobe is the best player to ever play the game, he's better now than michael jordan ever was, and he's far and away the best player in the league today.

kobe has better handles than isiah thomas did, can run a break better than earvin johnson did, has a better shot than wesley person did, can rebound better than dennis rodman, could rip opponents better than alvin robertson, is more clutch than larry bird, and is more of a franchise player than both kareem abdul jabbar and david robinson combined.

























































HAPPY APRIL FOOL'S DAY!