why tobe fails - in his own words

[SpiritualPorn]

Re: why tobe fails - in his own words fakers v. hornets

So detroit gets no credit for their victories? Come on now, Detroit played great ball in this series. And their defense was better than any of the teams that the lakers played in the west. They were a lucky shot from Fischer away from not beating the spurs. Sure kobe had a bad shooting series against Tayshaun. Tayshaun also locked down McGrady as well, and no one said T-Mac sabotage that series. And the Magic was up 3 to 1. No one blamed T-mac for losing that series.There are also other factors to look at. Karl Malone wasnt 100%. Chauncy was abusing Payton. Add those things together and they can hardly be one persons fault. Shaq was damn near locked down by Ben Wallace. He couldnt defend elden campbell. And defesively, with Malone out, we had no one to stop Corliss Williamson. You can blame that whole series on Kobe. Cause if im correct, the only game they won, Kobe won it for them.

On another note, someone made a comment about Wade getting his team to the second round, and kobe not being able to do that. How long did it take KG to get to the second round. T-Mac still hasnt seen a second round. Lebrons been in the league as long as wade and doesnt even have a playoff appearance yet. So why will kobe be put down if he doesnt get his team to the second round. Some had them not even making the playoffs.

Tim

I really thought you had more sense that that.

Ben could not stop Shaq for shit during that series.....PU___LEASE. Kobe's shot sent the one game they won into overtime. His game tying three came after he jacked up another stupid shot and Shaq got the rebound and hit the free throw afterwards to cut the deficit to three allowing Kobe to tie.

I was a Lakers fan at the time and couldn't beleive this dude was playing this way on the real.

Kobe , T-Mac, and KG are pretenders in the same vein.....good players and on some nights great but wayyyyy overhyped. Why can't you let these guys actually accomplish something before you start riding them? I would take Dennis Rodman and his BBall knowledge over Kobe. Shit give me Horry , get me Sam Cassel....anyone that plays team ball and doesn't shit on his teammates.

 

[SpiritualPorn]

Re: say what?

i just want to make sure we're talking about the same series here. are you referring to the 2004 nba pistons v. fakers finals?

because shaquille o'neal averaged 26.6 ppg on 63.1 FG% that series.

just to give perspective to that feat, tobe averaged 22.6 ppg on 38.1 FG% that series.

when you consider that tobe averaged 3.6 TOs per game in that series, AND that tobe averaged 14 MISSED FGs PER GAME while he had a teammate that was shooting 63.1%, i not only think it's FAIR to say that tobe lost that series, i think it's just PLAIN FACT.

that's an AVERAGE of 15+ changes of possession in the NBA FINALS coming from ONE player...

Thank You Very Much

That really breaks it down

Tim obviously just watches highlights.

 

[SpiritualPorn]

Yes you are confused! Because last time I checked Shaq won zero NBA titles without Kobe!!! Don't get me wrong, Shaq was the MVP on the Lakers team for all 3 titles, but without Kobe no titles! Shaq won nothing before he had Kobe's help and he had some pretty damn talented teams in Orlando! And Shaq has won nothing after Kobe eventhough he has a pretty damn good team Miami including Dwayne Wade who you say is a top 5 SG (and I do agree).

SO PLEASE CUT THE SHIT ABOUT KOBE NOT WINNING ANYTHING WITHOUT SHAQ! BECAUSE SHAQ HASN'T WON SHIT WITHOUT KOBE!!!

I find it funny that you think people here on this board are confused for thinking Kobe is great player. Because 99% of NBA players and coachs all say Kobe Brynat is a great player, so I guess they are confused as well, but what the hell do they know???

Shaq got to the Finals before Kobe and got to the ECF without Kobe. I think Kobe has alot more to prove than Shaq. Kobe w/o Shaq is not even in the playoffs the first year and will likely get bounced in the first round.

The real story with the Lakers is that neither one of them won without Phil and the Lakers went straight to hell when Jerry West left.

Kobe jumper is better than ever nowdays however like Larry Bird recently replied when asked if PP is the best Celtic " Greatness is determined in playoffs and finals, not the regular season."

 

[TimRock]

Re: why tobe fails - in his own words fakers v. hornets

Tim

I really thought you had more sense that that.

Ben could not stop Shaq for shit during that series.....PU___LEASE. Kobe's shot sent the one game they won into overtime. His game tying three came after he jacked up another stupid shot and Shaq got the rebound and hit the free throw afterwards to cut the deficit to three allowing Kobe to tie.

I was a Lakers fan at the time and couldn't beleive this dude was playing this way on the real.

Kobe , T-Mac, and KG are pretenders in the same vein.....good players and on some nights great but wayyyyy overhyped. Why can't you let these guys actually accomplish something before you start riding them? I would take Dennis Rodman and his BBall knowledge over Kobe. Shit give me Horry , get me Sam Cassel....anyone that plays team ball and doesn't shit on his teammates.

Whoa, im not riding anyone. This is a thread about kobe, so im just posting my opinion. If it was a thread about shaq or anybody else, i would still post my opinion. Now, i watched the entire series. Like i said, Shaq will always shoot a good percentage because its not like hes taking 3 pointers or driving to the whole to give the defense a chance to block the shot. Shaq will always put up those type of numbers. But yall just ignored the other statements i made. What about the rest of teams play. You cant blame the whole series on Kobe. If thats the case, you can blame T-Mac for losing to the pistons when they had a 3 to 1 lead. Whats the difference? Shooting percentages? How come no one else gets blamed when their team loses a series, but yall choose to point out kobe and blame him for what happened. Let me ask yall a question, without kobe, do the lakers beat the Wolves or Spurs that year? Answer honestly please. And im not just talking about who made a last second shot or whatever. And Sam Cassel? I give it to him, he is very hard to defend and is still one of the best shooters in the game, but his health issues are a concern, and when was the last time he played a whole season. And how many times has he been traded. Sam Cassel over kobe? Come on now. I can see if you said Wade or Bron, then you would have a point.

 

[TimRock]

Re: say what?

Thank You Very Much

That really breaks it down

Tim obviously just watches highlights.

I only watch highlights huh. True Kobe shot 38%, but what did everyone else shoot? No one else shot over 40% except Rick Fox. And he was only averaging 10 mpg. So how was this kobes fault? Nobody shot a good percentage except shaq. Which will always happen.

http://www.nba.com/lakers/stats/2003/nba_finals_stats.html

 

[cranrab]

why tobe fails - in his own words - catching up

in case anybody is interested, here is the current information on how tobe's FGAs negatively impacts the fakers...

the fakers record when tobe has > 25 FGAs: 24-25 or .490 (losing)
the fakers record when tobe has 25 or fewer FGAs: 16-9 or .640 (winning)

i think it's fair to say that all the tobe defender have been adequately refuted by now. let's take a look at some of their theories which pitifully attempt to explain tobe's penchant for chucking bricks:

1) tobe has no supporting cast. EVERY fair-minded observer is now aware that lamar odom and kwame brown have been contributing beyond their expectations.

2) the fakers not named tobe can't make shots. get out the wading boots, because the bullshit piled up behind this excuse quickly. after 76 games, we have MORE than adequate proof that this is simply another LIE. kwame brown, brian cook, chris mihm, ronny turiaf, lamar odom, laron profit, and william parker all have better shooting percentages than tobe... tobe has the 8th best FG% on a team of supposedly not ready for prime time players?

incidentally, tobe is also BEHIND 5 of his teammates in terms of shooting from behind the arc. brian cook, lamar odom, luke walton, william parker and sasha vujacic all shoot with a great accuracy from distance... 6th best 3 point FG% on a team of supposedly not ready for prime time players?

3) tobe needs to shoot to give the fakers a chance to win. see the comparison at the beginning of this post to dispel this INFANTILE defense.

meanwhile, tobe fans are making alot of noise about tobe breaking elgin baylor's 40 point games record. SO WHAT and BIG DEAL? but i guess they have to make up something to cheer about since all their past LIES have been exposed...

 

[cranrab]

Re: why tobe fails - in his own words - suns v. fakers

in case anybody is interested, here is the current information on how tobe's FGAs negatively impacts the fakers...

the fakers record when tobe has > 25 FGAs: 24-25 or .490 (losing)
the fakers record when tobe has 25 or fewer FGAs: 16-9 or .640 (winning)

let me update this.

the fakers record when tobe has > 25 FGAs: 24-26 or .480 (losing)

 

[cranrab]

Re: why tobe fails - in his own words fakers v. kings

Originally Posted by cranrab
originally posted DECEMBER 8, 2005

the fakers can manage/tolerate < 10 of tobe's FGATOs, but if he has > 25 FGAs, the team is going to suffer and lose... PERIOD...

*yawn*

tobe went 19-33 FGAs, fakers lose...

what a suprise... oh, but wait... tobe had another 40+ night...

does steve nash, last year's MVP and suns' starting PG think tobe negatively impacts the fakers with the STUPID scoring binges?

"You feel like if he's taking all those shots, the other guys aren't really scoring," Nash said. "We don't feel like if he has a huge night, that we can't win, that's for sure."

does raja bell think it's a wise move to allow STUPID tobe to monopolize the ball?

"He gets 50 and we win the game," said Suns guard Raja Bell, who guarded Bryant for most of the contest. "At the end of the day, I am OK with that. Even though it (stinks) to have 50 dropped on you, if we win, I've done my job. I really don't give a (darn) if he respects me. If I can keep him preoccupied on beating me 1-on-1, then the four other guys aren't getting shots and that plays into our hands."

does fakers head coach jackson acknowledge that STUPID tobe hurts the fakers by pursuing individual stat lines?

"At some level, it's remarkable," Jackson said of Bryant's 93 points on consecutive nights. "At another level, it limits us, it hackles us a little bit because other players don't get in the flow, and they didn't get in the flow tonight."

does suns head coach d'antoni think it's a credible defensive strategy to allow STUPID tobe to shoot the fakers out of a contest?

"We score a lot of points and Kobe is bound to miss a few," Suns coach Mike D'Antoni said. "He is human. Against them, we try to keep everyone else out of the game and we spread the floor."

 

[SpiritualPorn]

Re: why tobe fails - in his own words - catching up

in case anybody is interested, here is the current information on how tobe's FGAs negatively impacts the fakers...

the fakers record when tobe has > 25 FGAs: 24-25 or .490 (losing)
the fakers record when tobe has 25 or fewer FGAs: 16-9 or .640 (winning)

i think it's fair to say that all the tobe defender have been adequately refuted by now. let's take a look at some of their theories which pitifully attempt to explain tobe's penchant for chucking bricks:

1) tobe has no supporting cast. EVERY fair-minded observer is now aware that lamar odom and kwame brown have been contributing beyond their expectations.

2) the fakers not named tobe can't make shots. get out the wading boots, because the bullshit piled up behind this excuse quickly. after 76 games, we have MORE than adequate proof that this is simply another LIE. kwame brown, brian cook, chris mihm, ronny turiaf, lamar odom, laron profit, and william parker all have better shooting percentages than tobe... tobe has the 8th best FG% on a team of supposedly not ready for prime time players?

incidentally, tobe is also BEHIND 5 of his teammates in terms of shooting from behind the arc. brian cook, lamar odom, luke walton, william parker and sasha vujacic all shoot with a great accuracy from distance... 6th best 3 point FG% on a team of supposedly not ready for prime time players?

3) tobe needs to shoot to give the fakers a chance to win. see the comparison at the beginning of this post to dispel this INFANTILE defense.

meanwhile, tobe fans are making alot of noise about tobe breaking elgin baylor's 40 point games record. SO WHAT and BIG DEAL? but i guess they have to make up something to cheer about since all their past LIES have been exposed...

Right on point again,as usual.

I thought last night he did pretty well. He was hot and couldnt miss in the first Qt. His teammates were not in the flow at all. I loved how Nash responded when asked about Kobe's 51. "We won the game" , he says. That really sums it up. I thought Walton's commentary was right on. The team beat the individual.

At 40-37 the Lakers are fighting for last spot in the playoffs. They might fall out of the race.

 

[SpiritualPorn]

Re: say what?

I only watch highlights huh. True Kobe shot 38%, but what did everyone else shoot? No one else shot over 40% except Rick Fox. And he was only averaging 10 mpg. So how was this kobes fault? Nobody shot a good percentage except shaq. Which will always happen.

http://www.nba.com/lakers/stats/2003/nba_finals_stats.html

I love numbers,don't get me wrong. I just don't think they tell the whole story. When an individual plays like Kobe did in the finals, it can sabatoge the mentality of the team. Instead of being focused on winning and team play they become tenative.

Kobe at the time was a team leader with Mitch Kup in his back pocket.

Sports is mostly mental. When your team leader is an asshole like Kobe was in that series EVERYONE STARTS TO GET SELFISH.

This means no team defense, little passing, no extra effort for loose balls and rebounds.

I saw Kobe kill the Spurs damn near singlehandedly one year and gave him full credit. I saw Kobe pull out the overtime win in the finals with Indiana.

Kobe is not in the same leauge as great PLAYERS. HE is a very good scorer.

In last nights game against the Suns, his team was losing and he is there with
Shaw laughing on the bench. I doubt you would ever see Bird laughing when losing a game and playoff position.

Let time play this out. Thus far he is the worst "GREAT PLAYER" I have seen when it comes to game situations and when to take over.

 

[cranrab]

keeping it real - game 1 suns v. fakers

halftime, suns have an 8 pt lead...

i'm sure the fakers fans and tobe supporters are already practicing their "tobe needs help from the other starters" routine, but the TRUTH is:

that ALL the starters NOT named tobe are shooting a greater FG% than tobe

that ALL the starters except kwame brown have scored more points than tobe

stick to the FACTS and enjoy the 2nd half.

on a different note:

is that REALLY tim thomas down there on the blocks pissing on the fakers?
is that REALLY tim thomas out there behind the arc pissing on the fakers?

and:

michael wilbon can eat a dick with his bullshit halftime commentary.

 

[cranrab]

Science

tobe goes 2-3 FGAs in Q3... what happened?

oh nothing.

the fakers only erased an 8 point deficit and TIED the game entering Q4.

MVP?

tobe carries the fakers?

oh. lamar odom? 15 points 13 rebounds?

 

[SpiritualPorn]

Re: Science

tobe goes 2-3 FGAs in Q3... what happened?

oh nothing.

the fakers only erased an 8 point deficit and TIED the game entering Q4.

MVP?

tobe carries the fakers?

oh. lamar odom? 15 points 13 rebounds?

To tell the truth, I was more impressed with Kobe today than I have been in a while.
He spent the first qt getting the team involved. I actually thought he was tentative.

Phil will let him explode next game.....I hope for his sake he doesn't choke and get swept

 

[cranrab]

Science

To tell the truth, I was more impressed with Kobe today than I have been in a while.
He spent the first qt getting the team involved.

there was good reason to be impressed with tobe.

for 3 quarters, it appeared that tobe was disciplined enough to stick with the game plan (that had them even entering the 4th, and ever-so-briefly ahead 1:19 into Q4). tobe was a respectable 4-10 FGAs during that time, and it's no wonder the fakers were in a position to win.

but then tobe proceeded to show the good reasons why tobe fails.

in Q4 tobe couldn't allow himself to score fewer points than his teammates, so he decided to take 11 FGs in Q4. hello team high 22 points. goodbye game plan. goodbye teamwork. goodbye chance to win.

tobe bristled within the confines of a gameplan that put the team in a position to pull out a win ON THE ROAD IN THE PLAYOFFS. tobe pursued shine instead of a victory.