Why do black people think white people speak properly????

DarkMind said:
I don't see why. It's real simple.

We've had this conversation before kayanation. I don't see what the problem is.

Words, definitions and their pronunciation are defined by dictionaries.
The dictionaries are compilations by the people who created the language.

This is true of all languages (English, Japanese, Spanish, etc.)
Words already have set meanings, definitions and pronunciations for that particular language. You can't just make up your own as you see fit and have it be considered the standard.




Darkmind said:
That has nothing to do with whether words are being spoken properly or not. It is an unconscious learned behavior. I know people who use the word "uhm" before every sentence, it doesn't mean that they are speaking incorrectly.

Just because Funkmaster Flex, uses "know what I mean" after every other sentence does not mean he's talking incorrectly.




DarkMind said:
First of all, as racist as you are, I refuse to believe you KNOW a lot of white people.

Second of all, most white people would not be able to get along in their own society if they did not speak properly.




DarkMind said:
No white people know if they are speaking their own language correctly.


DarkMind said:
kayanation,

1. White people, including the ones in America, DID create the English language




Darkmind said:
2. No matter how you try to spin it, speaking "like" after every two words does not mean you're speaking incorrectly. You might as well give up on this one.





DarkMind said:
And like gameboy said in his post, there are a lot of white kids who imitate rappers and thugs, so they can't talk either.





DarkMind said:
The fact is languages have set rules. Race has nothing to do with it.



MassaQ said:
You need to read up. Languages are living. They change with time.





DwayneWayne said:
Man I had this class already:

Standard American English

http://www.pbs.org/speak/seatosea/standardamerican/

Ask a group of experts to define Standard American English, and you'll find, paradoxically, there's no standard answer. Even the editors of The American Heritage Dictionary are careful to qualify their definition
.
.
.
American Heritage goes on to explain that the term:

is highly elastic and variable, since what counts as Standard English will depend on both the locality and the particular varieties that Standard English is being contrasted with. A form that is considered standard in one region may be nonstandard in another...

Where does this leave us? American Heritage suggests there's no single, universally accepted standard for how to speak or write American English



DarkMind said:
As you can see here kayanation has a tendency to LIE a lot.
smh.gif


I never say the language is fixed. I said that words have set definitions and meanings and you can't just make up your own because you feel like it and claim it's the standard.




DarkMind said:
See??? I win. You lose.






NOW HAVE A SEAT, SCHOOL IS IN SESSION.



NUMBER 1.


According to American Heritage:
American Heritage suggests there's no single, universally accepted standard for how to speak or write American English


American Heritage goes on to explain that the term:

is highly elastic and variable


QUESTION: Why do black people think white people speak properly in light of the above???????




NUMBER 2.

You said "White people, including the ones in America, DID create the English language"



QUESTION:

519569F9J2L._AA240_.jpg


From Library Journal
The English language has depended heavily on linguistic borrowing of grammar and words from many other languages. Here, Holloway and Vass set out to show just how American English has been enriched by African languages. The authors relied on some previous scholarship but also conducted their own extensive research. As a result, they discovered that the Gullah dialect of the Southeastern United States contains a core Bantu lexicon of 35.2 percent, though linguistic connections to many other languages are also evident. The authors consider not only compiled word lists but also social customs like traditional naming practices. Gullah speakers, for instance, have two and sometimes three distinct names: an English one for public use, an African one for private family use, and a characteristic "community" name. Impressive research and attention to detail makes this book a valuable addition to African American subject collections in academic libraries. Though technical, public library patrons will also benefit this book.



00318906.gif


  • A Dictionary of Africanisms: Contributions of Sub-Saharan Africa to the English Language by Gerard M. Dalgish
Author(s) of Review: David F. Dorsey
Phylon (1960-), Vol. 44, No. 1 (1st Qtr., 1983), pp. 88-90
doi:10.2307/274374





Again I will make my point.

I am not telling any black person how they should speak.

However I am also telling black people that it is a racist myth that whites speak properly and their ENUNCIATION is something we HAVE TO conform to to succeed. Correct grammar should be enough.
 
kayanation said:
Why do black people think white people speak properly????

Most white Americans speak only a loose approximation of English. British people who speak with received pronunciation accents come the closest to speaking proper English. As to peppering one's speech with "like," that's the vernacular of white adolescents. I can't recall hearing an adult speak in that manner.

As to us, I agree that black folks needn't mimic the nasally tone and flat inflection of typical American white's. On the other hand, there is no excuse for the willful disregard for even the most basic rules of grammar increasingly popular nowadays. The grammatical misadventures of rappers, for instance, are an affectation. People don't really talk that way without trying. I'd hazard that Remy Ma's parents and grand parents didn't speak that unintelligible "New Yorked up" gibberish that she speaks.

The original poster compared us to, what I can only assume were, Indians. They speak that way because English is their second language. They're speaking English words with the pronunciation and cadences of Hindi and Punjabi etc... We, on the other hand, have been right here speaking English for hundreds of years. Again, you don't have to attempt to "sound white," but there is no excuse for a native English speaker--who's great grand parents were native English speakers--to massacre the language to the point that even other black people can't understand what the fuck they are saying. A perfect case in point is Mr. "Oh, you mad 'cause I'm stylin' on you." Other than that chin-checkingly provocative remark, I couldn't understand a word coming out of his mouth.
 
All you people talking about white people who use "like" after every sentence know that's not correct English. I am old enough to remember when "valley girl" talk became popular and if you are old as I am you also remember news segments on that way of speaking with the general consensus of business people being that "valley speak" would hinder ones chance for employment.

But older generations of Blacks were educated by their parents and schools to enunciate properly. If you wanna call that white, then so be it.

And if only speaking like Ms. Jordan would cause me to achieve half of what she achieved for Blacks, then so be it.

Well, here's a self hater for you, cause she is trying to talk white.

[FLASH]http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/VhAAha-UQdk[/FLASH]

and for those of you who don't even know who she is:

[FLASH]http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/fqOQXP4-Fv4[/FLASH]
 
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Most of the white friends I have speak talk hood just like I do, but I do have some that speaks proper as well but I have split personalities I know how to turn on my proper side for business and hood side when I'm around my peeps.
 
kayanation said:
What color do you need me to put this in?????




"Ask a group of experts to define Standard American English, and you'll find, paradoxically, there's no standard answer. Even the editors of The American Heritage Dictionary are careful to qualify their definition. They note:

People who invoke the term Standard English rarely make clear what they have in mind by it, and tend to slur over the inconvenient ambiguities that are inherent in the term.

American Heritage goes on to explain that the term:

is highly elastic and variable, since what counts as Standard English will depend on both the locality and the particular varieties that Standard English is being contrasted with. A form that is considered standard in one region may be nonstandard in another...

Where does this leave us? American Heritage suggests there's no single, universally accepted standard for how to speak or write American English. Even so, school systems, professional communicators and businesses all have standards and, not surprisingly, the rules (at least for grammar) do not vary dramatically from place to place.


What's more elusive is finding an accent that sets the standard."

:smh::smh::smh:




I'll play devil's advocate here.


IS there not a set standard within each region?



ex.


White People from Manhattan do not talk like Black ppl from Manhattan (Harlem, Wash Heights).

White ppl from Hollywood/L.A. do not talk like Blk ppl from Compton.


No?


 
cbm_redux said:
Most white Americans speak only a loose approximation of English. British people who speak with received pronunciation accents come the closest to speaking proper English. As to peppering one's speech with "like," that's the vernacular of white adolescents. I can't recall hearing an adult speak in that manner.

As to us, I agree that black folks needn't mimic the nasally tone and flat inflection of typical American white's. On the other hand, there is no excuse for the willful disregard for even the most basic rules of grammar increasingly popular nowadays. The grammatical misadventures of rappers, for instance, are an affectation. People don't really talk that way without trying. I'd hazard that Remy Ma's parents and grand parents didn't speak that unintelligible "New Yorked up" gibberish that she speaks.

The original poster compared us to, what I can only assume were, Indians. They speak that way because English is their second language. They're speaking English words with the pronunciation and cadences of Hindi and Punjabi etc... We, on the other hand, have been right here speaking English for hundreds of years. Again, you don't have to attempt to "sound white," but there is no excuse for a native English speaker--who's great grand parents were native English speakers--to massacre the language to the point that even other black people can't understand what the fuck they are saying. A perfect case in point is Mr. "Oh, you mad 'cause I'm stylin' on you." Other than that chin-checkingly provocative remark, I couldn't understand a word coming out of his mouth.

YES!!!

Everything that was just said here is the truth. :yes: :yes: :yes:

Thank you. :yes: It couldn't have been said any better than that.
 
The Dark Mind said:
YES!!!

Everything that was just said here is the truth. :yes: :yes: :yes:

Thank you. :yes: It couldn't have been said any better than that.





Stop wiggling out of YOUR position and grasping at other people's posts and links...............:lol:


Back your statements up, you know the ones you got owned on.......




Did you also notice the post you co-signed had this to say:


cmb_redux said:
As to us, I agree that black folks needn't mimic the nasally tone and flat inflection of typical American white's.


Ironically, that happens to be the point of MY ENTIRE POST.


Stupid.




:lol:
 
kayanation said:
Stop wiggling out of YOUR position and grasping at other people's posts and links...............:lol:


Back your statements up, you know the ones you got owned on.......




Did you also notice the post you co-signed had this to say:





Ironically, that happens to be the point of MY ENTIRE POST.


Stupid.




:lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Nice try that's NOT what you've been saying!!!!

Look at the title of your post!!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

DAMN YOU'RE AN IDIOT! An everybody sees through you!!!! :lol:

You've been claiming the whole time that if somebody doesn't talk the way you like that they are sounding white.

Don't try to weasel out now!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol:
 
We've already established that we aren't talking about accents.

I've said several times that people can have different accents if they come from different countries and still speak English correctly!

I've also said several times that people have different accent and talk differently depending on what part of the country they are from!

You aren't complaining about accents. Don't event try that shit bruh. :lol:

kayanation thinks he's slick.

:lol: :lol: :lol: HAahhahahahahhhhahah!

Naw bruh you ain't going to get away like that.

:lol:
 
You are truly a snake.........you have no spine.

Answer the two questions I posed in blue in response to your post.

Stop shouting with those fonts......... large font don't make you right:lol:


Answer the questions snake.


Do you want me to repost them here or could you find them?
 
What's sad is you don't even bother to check to see if that's their voice.

So wait! Now you're saying that if you don't like how they sound, ie you think that their voice sounds too nasily, that it doesn't make them black that makes them sound white?

I agree (as I stated) that you don't have to change your voice sounds. But you haven't been talking about how their voice sounds, you've been talking about how they talk and how they pronounce their words and form their sentences!!!

Bruh, don't try to pull that bullshit move where you try to act like you been talking about something else the whole time. If you haven't noticed, we are on page 3 of this thread. PAGE 3!!! You could have done that when we was on page 1 of this thread. We got three pages of of you saying this shit. Don't even try kid.


Now...

If you are going to talk about how a person sounds that' a whole diffent conversation.

Which asks who the hell are you to decide whose voices "sound black" and whose voices "sound white"

Who made you the arbiter and put you in charge of getting to decide whose voices sounded black???

Damn! That means you're even more fucked up than before.
 
The Dark Mind said:
What's sad is you don't even bother to check to see if that's their voice.

So wait! Now you're saying that if you don't like how they sound, ie you think that their voice sounds too nasily, that it doesn't make them black that makes them sound white?

I agree (as I stated) that you don't have to change your voice sounds. But you haven't been talking about how their voice sounds, you've been talking about how they talk and how they pronounce their words and form their sentences!!!

Bruh, don't try to pull that bullshit move where you try to act like you been talking about something else the whole time. If you haven't noticed, we are on page 3 of this thread. PAGE 3!!! You could have done that when we was on page 1 of this thread. We got three pages of of you saying this shit. Don't even try kid.


Now...

If you are going to talk about how a person sounds that' a whole diffent conversation.

Which asks who the hell are you to decide whose voices "sound black" and whose voices "sound white"

Who made you the arbiter and put you in charge of getting to decide whose voices sounded black???

Damn! That means you're even more fucked up than before.





What's up snake.

I see you haven't answered the question.

You keep trying to wiggle out AGAIN!!!


How come you didn't quote what I said this time????? Lol

You conveniently decided not to this time right?????:lol:






Well let me quote you from above:

DarkMind said:
you've been talking about how they talk and how they pronounce their words and form their sentences!!!


Now show me where I ever used the words "pronounce" or the phrase "form their sentences"


You are a JOKE.

A jokey snake.



Next time don't jump in and try to distract the issue.


Ok snake?

BTW YOU KNOW THE QUESTIONS ARE STILL THERE, RIGHT????

:lol:


You could use large fonts too if you want to throw a tantrum.........:lol:
 
Leeeeeee said:

You know K, occasionally you offer enlightening insights, but at times you sound like the egotistical pompous folk you claim to disagree with so......

Who made you the All Mighty of all things Black.....?

Just because a Black person has an opinion different than yours, then they must hate who they are.....Bullshit!

I grew up in a small All Black college community.......my pops was a professor as were the parents of All my friends......we learn our enunciation and diction from those we grow up around........but if my friend whose mother was a college English professor "sounds" white to Kaya, then he hates himself. Bullshit.

So not only do you appear to be racist against whites, but against Blacks who do not fit your mold.

That's shallow bruh, even though I see you are trying not to be, that shit is shallow.

Are you sure your obsession with "all things white" as exhibited in ALL your threads is not an indication of your self hate. I don't wake up and go to sleeping wondering about what white folk are thinking or doing, or any other folk for that matter, because I am comfortable with who I am.

You may have traveled the world, but you haven't experienced the world, because if you have you would cease expecting All Black folk to either fit the same mold or be self haters.

Just something to think about.

And I offer this with the utmost respect.

Read kayanation. READ!

As a matter of fact... re-read Leeeeeee's post SEVERAL times!!!

He pretty much pegged you outright!
 
The Dark Mind said:
What's sad is you don't even bother to check to see if that's their voice.

So wait! Now you're saying that if you don't like how they sound, ie you think that their voice sounds too nasily, that it doesn't make them black that makes them sound white?

I agree (as I stated) that you don't have to change your voice sounds. But you haven't been talking about how their voice sounds, you've been talking about how they talk and how they pronounce their words and form their sentences!!!

Bruh, don't try to pull that bullshit move where you try to act like you been talking about something else the whole time. If you haven't noticed, we are on page 3 of this thread. PAGE 3!!! You could have done that when we was on page 1 of this thread. We got three pages of of you saying this shit. Don't even try kid.


Now...

If you are going to talk about how a person sounds that' a whole diffent conversation.

Which asks who the hell are you to decide whose voices "sound black" and whose voices "sound white"

Who made you the arbiter and put you in charge of getting to decide whose voices sounded black???

Damn! That means you're even more fucked up than before.

Good post.
 
The Dark Mind said:
Read kayanation. READ!

As a matter of fact... re-read Leeeeeee's post SEVERAL times!!!

He pretty much pegged you outright!






Come on Snake, stop running.......... looking for backup.

Answer the questions!!!!


:lol:

Stop deflecting................
 
kayanation said:
Come on Snake, stop running.......... looking for backup.

Answer the questions!!!!


:lol:

Stop deflecting................


It hurts doesn't it? :smh:

It hurts to hear the truth.
 
You are a funny dude..........

You get a wrong concept and run with it.

let me re-post:



NUMBER 1.

According to American Heritage:
American Heritage suggests there's no single, universally accepted standard for how to speak or write American English


American Heritage goes on to explain that the term:

is highly elastic and variable


QUESTION: Why do black people think white people speak properly in light of the above???????







NUMBER 2.

You said "White people, including the ones in America, DID create the English language"



QUESTION:

519569F9J2L._AA240_.jpg


From Library Journal
The English language has depended heavily on linguistic borrowing of grammar and words from many other languages. Here, Holloway and Vass set out to show just how American English has been enriched by African languages. The authors relied on some previous scholarship but also conducted their own extensive research. As a result, they discovered that the Gullah dialect of the Southeastern United States contains a core Bantu lexicon of 35.2 percent, though linguistic connections to many other languages are also evident. The authors consider not only compiled word lists but also social customs like traditional naming practices. Gullah speakers, for instance, have two and sometimes three distinct names: an English one for public use, an African one for private family use, and a characteristic "community" name. Impressive research and attention to detail makes this book a valuable addition to African American subject collections in academic libraries. Though technical, public library patrons will also benefit this book.



00318906.gif

  • A Dictionary of Africanisms: Contributions of Sub-Saharan Africa to the English Language by Gerard M. Dalgish
Author(s) of Review: David F. Dorsey
Phylon (1960-), Vol. 44, No. 1 (1st Qtr., 1983), pp. 88-90
doi:10.2307/274374





Again I will make my point.

I am not telling any black person how they should speak.

However I am also telling black people that it is a racist myth that whites speak properly and their ENUNCIATION is something we HAVE TO conform to to succeed. Correct grammar should be enough.




As you can plainly see, this thread is empowering.

Empowering black people to speak freely.

Not to some "mythical white standard" but to enunciate in their own way with correct grammar.


Keep defending whitey...........:lol::lol::lol:
 
Why don't you answer a real question.

Why do you hate black people who don't agree with you?

Why do you hate and berate blacks who talk "white" in your opinion? Why should we follow your opinion. Who the fuck are you to decide?

How do you know that's not just how they talk?

Why in the HELL did you start a thread titled "Why do black people think white people speak properly????"

Hmmm??? Why did you do that?

Who the fuck made you on this board the royal king, who gets to sit atop his throne and decide who's black enough?

Anyone who peruses through your post knows this is a common them you're on. You're constantly trying to tell people, who are black, that they're not.

Why do you do that, bruh?

Was it something in your childhood???

Please tell us. We're fam here on bgol. We wanna help.
 
Come on bro, where is all that superior logic and intellect you came blazing out with????? Get a spine snake, stop wriggling..........




Answer this, come on bro don't answer a question with a million other irrelevant questions..............










NUMBER 1.

According to American Heritage:
American Heritage suggests there's no single, universally accepted standard for how to speak or write American English


American Heritage goes on to explain that the term:

is highly elastic and variable


QUESTION: Why do black people think white people speak properly in light of the above???????








NUMBER 2.

You said "White people, including the ones in America, DID create the English language"



QUESTION:

519569F9J2L._AA240_.jpg


From Library Journal
The English language has depended heavily on linguistic borrowing of grammar and words from many other languages. Here, Holloway and Vass set out to show just how American English has been enriched by African languages. The authors relied on some previous scholarship but also conducted their own extensive research. As a result, they discovered that the Gullah dialect of the Southeastern United States contains a core Bantu lexicon of 35.2 percent, though linguistic connections to many other languages are also evident. The authors consider not only compiled word lists but also social customs like traditional naming practices. Gullah speakers, for instance, have two and sometimes three distinct names: an English one for public use, an African one for private family use, and a characteristic "community" name. Impressive research and attention to detail makes this book a valuable addition to African American subject collections in academic libraries. Though technical, public library patrons will also benefit this book.



00318906.gif

  • A Dictionary of Africanisms: Contributions of Sub-Saharan Africa to the English Language by Gerard M. Dalgish
Author(s) of Review: David F. Dorsey
Phylon (1960-), Vol. 44, No. 1 (1st Qtr., 1983), pp. 88-90
doi:10.2307/274374





Again I will make my point.

I am not telling any black person how they should speak.


However I am also telling black people that it is a racist myth that whites speak properly and their ENUNCIATION is something we HAVE TO conform to to succeed. Correct grammar should be enough.




As you can plainly see, this thread is empowering.

Empowering black people to speak freely.

Not to some "mythical white standard" but to enunciate in their own way with correct grammar.






BTW, what happened to your quote button?????


:lol::lol::lol:
 
kayanation said:
Again I will make my point.

I am not telling any black person how they should speak.

That's a lie. You complained that when black people are told that they sound white,
that they refuse to take it as insult but take it as a compliment.

This was not something you were happy about.

You also advocated that people not do it.

However I am also telling black people that it is a racist myth that whites speak properly and their ENUNCIATION is something we HAVE TO conform to to succeed. Correct grammar should be enough.

This problem seems to be mostly in your head. Why do you have a problem with how OTHER people talk??? This doesn't make sense.

As you can plainly see, this thread is empowering.

Oh NO. This thread is anything but empowering.

This thread was started on a BLACK board....
by a BLACK person.....
to berate BLACK people...
about how they talk.

That is NOT empowering. That is demeaning and disgusting.

Empowering black people to speak freely.

Not to some "mythical white standard" but to enunciate in their own way with correct grammar.

Who are you to decide what white enunciation and what's black enunciation?

It sounds like it is you with the "mythical white standard". Nobody else seems to be bothered by this but you. So much so that you started a whole thread about this. And on a porn board at that. Why did you feel a need to do this?

Please. Help us understand.

Keep defending whitey...........:lol::lol::lol:
See you just did it again. I've noticed that whenever someone refuse to accept you warped view of the world...

you claim that they're "defending whitey".
 
I know you didn't create a post like this and then coming in this thread with your holier than thou self.




You are a hypocrate.

A hypocritic snake........ spineless.


642o38j.jpg







You have the gall to tell me this:



Darkmind said:
Oh NO. This thread is anything but empowering.

This thread was started on a BLACK board....
by a BLACK person.....
to berate BLACK people...
about how they talk.

That is NOT empowering. That is demeaning and disgusting.


What do you have to say for yourself.

Check through the history of my post and see the difference.


You sir are a hypocrite of the lowest form...............


:smh: :smh: :smh:



You are like those politicians campaigning against gay marriage while taking men on the downlow............


:smh: :smh: :smh:
 
kayanation said:
I know you didn't create a post like this and then coming in this thread with your holier than thou self.




You are a hypocrate.

A hypocritic snake........ spineless.


642o38j.jpg







You have the gall to tell me this:






What do you have to say for yourself.

Check through the history of my post and see the difference.


You sir are a hypocrite of the lowest form...............


:smh: :smh: :smh:



You are like those politicians campaigning against gay marriage while taking men on the downlow............


:smh: :smh: :smh:

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

WOW. You REALLY do hate black people!!!

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

You mean you compare black people who don't act and talk the way you want to people who don't wipe their ass and have bad hygiene?!??!?!


DAMN. You just exposed yourself for the warped black people hater that you are!!!!

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
 
What's worse is that you have the nerve to talk about somebody being a hypocrite and a snake!!!

:eek: :eek: :eek:

DAMN you're EVIL!!!

:smh: :smh: :smh:
 
kaya and TDM going at it big time. Lets break it down...

"Sounding white" can mean 3 things:

A. Using white diction. That would mean talking nasally or less forcefully. Yes, white people have "weak" voices(to go along with their weak genealogy). It is what it is.

B. Articulating. Basically demonstrating good command of the English language. Using correct nouns, adj. pronouns etc. Speaking the language as it should be written. This has nothing to do with accent or ethnic influences. A country Texan can be just as articulate as a big city New Yorker.

C. Using white slang. Saying shit like "yeah dude" or "like totally". Basically surfer talk or trailer trash speak. The white equivalent of Remy Ma or lil Jon. Same thing.


Usually the A and B go hand in hand because a professional black is usually conducting business with the majority(whites). So logic would dictate when in Rome....yada yada yada. Utilizing both white diction and articulating gives the professional black the best chance for success. White slang spoken by blacks is usually reserves for oreos or "sellouts".

Now my preferred method of communication is B, articulate without using white diction. I talk grammatically correct English, but I don't try and hide my heavier, more forceful African American roots. Usually people tell me I talk "proper", but never do they say I talk "white".

So, to be fair kaya you have a point bruh, but you refuse to admit that a "true" black man can speak grammatically correct English or on the flip side that grammatically correct English is somehow speaking "white".

Yes, there are some of us that actually can speak correctly.
 
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The Racial Politics of Speaking Well


04clemetson_CA0.600.jpg



By LYNETTE CLEMETSON

WASHINGTON

SENATOR JOSEPH R. BIDEN’S characterization of his fellow Democratic presidential contender Senator Barack Obama as “the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy” was so painfully clumsy that it nearly warranted pity.

There are not enough column inches on this page to parse interpretations of each of Mr. Biden’s chosen adjectives. But among his string of loaded words, one is so pervasive — and is generally used and viewed so differently by blacks and whites — that it calls out for a national chat, perhaps a national therapy session.

It is amazing that this still requires clarification, but here it is. Black people get a little testy when white people call them “articulate.”

Though it was little noted, on Wednesday President Bush on the Fox News Channel also described Mr. Obama as “articulate.” On any given day, in any number of settings, it is likely to be one of the first things white people warmly remark about Oprah Winfrey; Richard Parsons, chief executive of Time Warner; Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice; Deval Patrick, the newly elected governor of Massachusetts; or a recently promoted black colleague at work.

A series of conversations about the word with a number of black public figures last week elicited the kind of frustrated responses often uttered between blacks, but seldom shared with whites.

“You hear it and you just think, ‘Damn, this again?’ ” said Michael Eric Dyson, a professor of humanities at the University of Pennsylvania.

Anna Perez, the former communications counselor for Ms. Rice when she was national security adviser, said, “You just stand and wonder, ‘When will this foolishness end?’ ”

Said Reginald Hudlin, president of entertainment for Black Entertainment Television: “It makes me weary, literally tired, like, ‘Do I really want to spend my time right now educating this person?’ ”

So what is the problem with the word? Whites do not normally object when it is used to describe them. And it is not as if articulate black people do not wish to be thought of as that. The characterization is most often meant as a form of praise.

“Look, what I was attempting to be, but not very artfully, is complimentary,” Mr. Biden explained to Jon Stewart on Wednesday on “The Daily Show.” “This is an incredible guy. This is a phenomenon.”

What faint praise, indeed. Being articulate must surely be a baseline requirement for a former president of The Harvard Law Review. After all, Webster’s definitions of the word include “able to speak” and “expressing oneself easily and clearly.” It would be more incredible, more of a phenomenon, to borrow two more of the senator’s puzzling words, if Mr. Obama were inarticulate.

That is the core of the issue. When whites use the word in reference to blacks, it often carries a subtext of amazement, even bewilderment. It is similar to praising a female executive or politician by calling her “tough” or “a rational decision-maker.”

“When people say it, what they are really saying is that someone is articulate ... for a black person,” Ms. Perez said.

Such a subtext is inherently offensive because it suggests that the recipient of the “compliment” is notably different from other black people.

“Historically, it was meant to signal the exceptional Negro,” Mr. Dyson said. “The implication is that most black people do not have the capacity to engage in articulate speech, when white people are automatically assumed to be articulate.”

And such distinctions discount as inarticulate historically black patterns of speech. “Al Sharpton is incredibly articulate,” said Tricia Rose, professor of Africana Studies at Brown University. “But because he speaks with a cadence and style that is firmly rooted in black rhetorical tradition you will rarely hear white people refer to him as articulate.”

While many white people do not automatically recognize how, and how often, the word is applied, many black people can recall with clarity the numerous times it has stopped them in their tracks.

Melissa Harris-Lacewell, professor of politics and African-American studies at Princeton University, said her first notable encounter with the word was back in high school in Chester, Va., when she was dating the school’s star football player. In post-game interviews and news stories she started to notice that he was always referred to as articulate.

“They never said that about the white quarterback,” she said, “yet they couldn’t help but say it about my boyfriend.”

William E. Kennard, a managing director of the Carlyle Group and a former chairman of the Federal Communications Commission, recalled that in his days as partner at a Washington law firm in the early 1990s written reviews of prospective black hires almost always included the words, “articulate and poised.” The characterization was so consistent and in such stark contrast to the notes taken on white job applicants that he mentioned it to his fellow partners.

“It was a law firm; all of the people interviewing for jobs were articulate,” said Mr. Kennard, 50, who is also on the board of The New York Times Company. “And yet my colleagues seemed struck by that quality in black applicants.”

The comedian and actor D. L. Hughley, a frequent guest on HBO’s “Real Time With Bill Maher,” says that every time he appears on the show, where he riffs on the political and social issues of the day, people walk up to him afterward and tell him how “smart and articulate” his comments were.

“Everyone was up in arms about Michael Richards using the N-word, but subtle words like this are more insidious,” Mr. Hughley said. “It’s like weight loss. The last few pounds are the hardest to get rid of. It’s the last vestiges of racism that are hard to get rid of.”

Sometimes the “articulate” moniker is merely implied. My colleague Rachel Swarns and I chuckle wearily about the number of times we have finished interviews or casual conversations with people — always white, more often male — only to have the person end the meeting with some version of the statement, “something about you reminds me of Condoleezza Rice.”

Neither Rachel nor I look anything like Ms. Rice, or each other for that matter, so the comparison is clearly not physical. The comment seems more a vocalized reach by the speaker for some sort of reference point, a context in which to understand us.

It is unlikely that whites will quickly or easily erase “articulate” and other damning forms of praise from the ways in which they discuss blacks. Listen for it in post-Super Bowl chatter, after the Academy Awards, at the next school board meeting or corporate retreat.

But here is a pointer. Do not use it as the primary attribute of note for a black person if you would not use it for a similarly talented, skilled or eloquent white person. Do not make it an outsized distinction for Brown University’s president, Ruth Simmons, if you would not for the University of Michigan’s president, Mary Sue Coleman. Do not make it the sole basis for your praise of the actor Forest Whitaker if it would never cross your mind to utter it about the expressive Peter O’Toole.

With the ballooning size of the black middle and upper class, qualities in blacks like intelligence, eloquence — the mere ability to string sentences together with tenses intact — must at some point become as unremarkable to whites as they are to blacks.

“How many flukes simply constitute reality?” Mr. Hudlin asked, with amused dismay.

Well said.


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/04/w...c0215875608f7a&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss








“Al Sharpton is incredibly articulate,” said Tricia Rose, professor of Africana Studies at Brown University. “But because he speaks with a cadence and style that is firmly rooted in black rhetorical tradition you will rarely hear white people refer to him as articulate.”
 
Because English is the language from England.

A white language created by white people.

Therefore the way they use their white language is CORRECT
 
mcboob said:
Because English is the language from England.

A white language created by white people.

Therefore the way they use their white language is CORRECT




Guess you didn't read shit I posted after all that contradicts this ignorant belief............

Just jumped right in :smh::smh::smh:
 
Clever said:
kaya and TDM going at it big time. Lets break it down...

"Sounding white" can mean 3 things:

A. Using white diction. That would mean talking nasally or less forcefully. Yes, white people have "weak" voices(to go along with their weak genealogy). It is what it is.

B. Articulating. Basically demonstrating good command of the English language. Using correct nouns, adj. pronouns etc. Speaking the language as it should be written. This has nothing to do with accent or ethnic influences. A country Texan can be just as articulate as a big city New Yorker.

C. Using white slang. Saying shit like "yeah dude" or "like totally". Basically surfer talk or trailer trash speak. The white equivalent of Remy Ma or lil Jon. Same thing.


Usually the A and B go hand in hand because a professional black is usually conducting business with the majority(whites). So logic would dictate when in Rome....yada yada yada. Utilizing both white diction and articulating gives the professional black the best chance for success. White slang spoken by blacks is usually reserves for oreos or "sellouts".

Now my preferred method of communication is B, articulate without using white diction. I talk grammatically correct English, but I don't try and hide my heavier, more forceful African American roots. Usually people tell me I talk "proper", but never do they say I talk "white".

So, to be fair kaya you have a point bruh, but you refuse to admit that a "true" black man can speak grammatically correct English or on the flip side that grammatically correct English is somehow speaking "white".

Yes, there are some of us that actually can speak correctly.

^^^^^
BREAK IT DOWN WITH A K.I.S.S.!!!

HAS ANYONE MENTIONED THE FUCKERY WHITE SOUTHENERS DO TO THE LANGUAGE?? THE BRITS AND ENGLISH HAVE THIS ARGUMENT ALL THE TIME TOO. NIGGAS GONNA ALWAYS DO WHAT THEY WANT, HELL WE ALL RIGHT! :lol:
 
I Don't Think They All Speak Properly. I Know Alot Of White Folks That Speak Just Like I Do.

Black Folks Speak Properly Too, It's Just The Ones That Get Highlighted The Most That People Sterotype The Whole Race Making It Seem Like We Are All Ignorant Which Is Far From Truth.
 
True.. :yes: What I wanna know is when did speaking correctly - like you have some damn knowledge - be equated with being white :angry:
 
True.. :yes: What I wanna know is when did speaking correctly - like you have some damn knowledge - be equated with being white :angry:


Ditto.

That is the whole point of this thread.............. to get that shit out of our head !!!



:angry:
 
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