you KNOW the last two are up for grabs,
personally I think nas won BUT many folks think
people are not well, if they say Ether was better than
Takeover, takeover track was just fuckin sick bruh....
Why are Latinos and others groups trying to say they created Hip-Hop when it was really Black people?
- Thread starter Soul On Ice
- Start date
you KNOW the last two are up for grabs,
personally I think nas won BUT many folks think
people are not well, if they say Ether was better than
Takeover, takeover track was just fuckin sick bruh....
[/QUOTE]
Dude Starksy was a hip hop hoppity hip hip hopper hype man, for the DJ June Bug (I believe) at the Feaver. I wouldn't be surprised if he coined the term HIP HOP if not they got it from his hype style.
But he never had any real rhymes but he knew how to move the crowd similar to how hype men in strip clubs or roller rinks used to do back in the day.
But as wack, as he was, he definitely had to have been the biggest influence on the MC game and was there on day one, when hip hop was official.
Yo tell them what happened to all those O.G. crews once RUN DMC, LL, and Slick and Dougie hit the scene, they all fell off because they were stuck in that played-out style. At that time where were Rocksteady and those other PR crews?
BIG PUN
Is this your correct age or are you much older?
That's my age, I wasn't around in the Bronx during the late until the early '80s but my family was deep into that shit, they ran with flash and them and I talk with many old OG rappers from back then.
Pun came in later in the game, in what I call HIP HOP 2.0 the rap we know and love today.
Ok you’re getting weird bro.
I just named 2 early 80s battles and then some 90s battles. And 2 of them being bodied by 1 girl from queens. And your back on something with that has nothing to do With the commentman did bambaata get you man. You sound disturbed
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Takeover was dope. Till ether came out and he had to respond back. He fell flat with that super ugly.
And big. F what them dudes was talking about. He should of answered back.
Anything on TV was cornball shit, by 83 all the real rap was on tape and underground, because the labels buried all the real MC's, look what they did to the Funky 4, the Crash Crew, Cold Crush, Furious 5, Fantastic Romantics, Threchious 3, the list goes on. This is why Def Jam saved rap, because at that time rap was dying, becoming too commercial and cheesy. This is why sucka mc dropped all those then industry cornballs were put on notice.Ok you’re getting weird bro.
man did bambaata get you man. You sound scorned
Ok, Thank you, and I respect your response.
I remember back around 1976, 77, 78,79, some of the guys in the neighborhood would bring their audio equipment outside during the summer, and hook it up to the street lamppost (the lamppost was the power source). The would basically play music for hours until around midnight (a lot of mixing and a little rapping).
This was East Harlem, and probably going on in other neighborhoods also throughout New York City. Unfortunately, there is probably little to no film footage of these events (back then the video camera of choice was the Super 8, which my father owned one, but I dare not take it outside because...Well, let's just say everyone on your neighborhood ain't your friend).
Trivia: Rapper's Delight was not the first rap record to get radio airplay. The first rap record I ever heard on the radio was "King Tim III," by the Fatback Band in September 1979 (only 43 years ago)
Thanks for the input.Im tryin to tell you, they were pushed to the forefront because they were
considered more marketable because their look wasnt TOO "INNER CITY"
this is fact bruh, its how they got the flashdance gig over so much better
crews in nyc...
You projecting your gay fantasies at me dummy. You were ass raped in Greenwich Village for recreation and you mad at me cause I get the best chics in the world.
Brazil has been voted to have the best women on the planet numerous times. Nothing can come close not even Columbia. I like many black Brazilians women but niggaz in US especially NYC are obsessed with Latinas not me. They’re overrated. They’re too fat and age badly.
The chic who I know who that tranny cuckhold Dr Truth posts frequently is a thick chick with a daughter. I got more photos of her and others I kicked it with in Rio.
You all know she ain’t no tranny. If y’all really thought she was a trannny you’d have Dr Truth banned. Plain and Simple. So you all ain’t fooling nobody. You just wish you could make that step out of this matrix bullshit but you ain’t. You’re gonna keep your Brazilian porn fantasies building up till the day you die.
I know this is off topic, but have you been to Rio lately? If so is HELP (Nightclub) still open and have you been there?
It shut down. That was before my time. I can tell you a lot, what else you need to know about Rio? I been there 10 times. I’m down with the passport bros. I can guide you to anything you need to know about Rio or I can try to provide information. My info surpasses that dude, Eeewillll.
Your boy, who you said you knew, Keith Cowboy, is the one that gave hip-hop its name. I’m surprised you don’t know that.
Keith was older than me and hung out with my cuz didn't talk with him that nuch because I was a kid, I see Melly Mel more as an adult but I'm more of a Brooklyn kat.
One omission in this thread I’ve seen is that Hip Hop, as we know it, didn’t even start out as rap...
It started out with the DJ’s.
People gonna bring up toasting and 1933 flyers but hip hop, as we know it today, started with DJ’s, breakers. Toast, Poets & Pigmeat Markham were doing a form of rapping but they weren’t rhythmically synced to juggled break beats the way DJ Hollywood was, one of the first cats to ever do it on a larger scale. They predated the extension of middle breaks, beat juggling and funk and that’s why DJ’s in hip hop are considered the backbone of hip hop culture. That 2/4 measure that you nod ya head too was because of them. Hip hop MC’s as we know it were nothing without them.
Influence and creation are two different things. James Brown is considered influential, but how many would say he is an actual hip hop artist? Pete Rocks Soul Brother #1 wouldn’t exist without him but that’s also Pete’s creation. Created by influence. Similar but two different things. I digress.
Getting back to MC’s, they weren’t even allowed to get on the mic in those days. The only time they did was to say, “please move your car…” or “the police have been called, please disperse…” but that was it. This is what Coke La Rock attributes to “just messing around and having a good time calling my friends names out” before he ever started syncopated poetry on beat. Later on, once the MC’s were seen as more valuable to “Moving the Crowd..” that’s when you got MC’s, the Masters of Ceremonies.
This is well documented by the likes DJ Hollywood, Grandwizard Theodore, Grandmixer DST, Jazzy Jay, Red Alert, Busy Bee, Kevie Kev and countless others.
It was the DJ’s that were spinning breaks and various measures of music from sampled records, mostly to keep kids out of the gang violence going on in the Bronx and came together with the graffiti artists and the breakers. That’s how, “hip hop.. started out in the parks”, and gave us what we know today. Plugged up to the lamppost and all that.
Crazy Legs and a gang of Puerto Ricans were definitely there from the genesis of the genre as we know it and have various contributions. Marginalized black and brown kids were everywhere in the Bronx back then and I’m sure folks who lived it can attest regardless of what beef they might have had or not had. DJ’s like Disco Wiz were spinning and extending break records for breakdancers to battle to. James Whipper noticeably broke onto the scene around the same time. You can split the hairs on the timing (late 60’s-late 70’s) but idk how much that really means.
Sidenote: For those outside the northeastern US who might not know, the division of black and brown doesn’t exist as deeply as it does in the west or the south. The lines here are heavily blurrred cause most cats are too busy to even notice and moreover care. Flash was from Barbados, Bambatta, Herc and King Charles were Jamaican while Kidd creole repped the Caribbean also. All we’re in NYC at the forefront. To use newer rappers as examples: Noreaga, Fabolous, Jim Jones, Julez Santana, Lloyd Banks, Dave East, etc etc .. those who you may think are Black Americans are usually always Puerto Rican or Dominican, Bajan, etc but Latino nonetheless. That division is overlooked more times than not in the birthplace of the genre.
In the end, I think BET got this tribute right and the pioneers, across the board, should be celebrated for their contributions to the genre regardless of who they are. It doesn’t diminish anyone nor does it rewrite history, to give credit to everyone who took part.
It started out with the DJ’s.
People gonna bring up toasting and 1933 flyers but hip hop, as we know it today, started with DJ’s, breakers. Toast, Poets & Pigmeat Markham were doing a form of rapping but they weren’t rhythmically synced to juggled break beats the way DJ Hollywood was, one of the first cats to ever do it on a larger scale. They predated the extension of middle breaks, beat juggling and funk and that’s why DJ’s in hip hop are considered the backbone of hip hop culture. That 2/4 measure that you nod ya head too was because of them. Hip hop MC’s as we know it were nothing without them.
Influence and creation are two different things. James Brown is considered influential, but how many would say he is an actual hip hop artist? Pete Rocks Soul Brother #1 wouldn’t exist without him but that’s also Pete’s creation. Created by influence. Similar but two different things. I digress.
Getting back to MC’s, they weren’t even allowed to get on the mic in those days. The only time they did was to say, “please move your car…” or “the police have been called, please disperse…” but that was it. This is what Coke La Rock attributes to “just messing around and having a good time calling my friends names out” before he ever started syncopated poetry on beat. Later on, once the MC’s were seen as more valuable to “Moving the Crowd..” that’s when you got MC’s, the Masters of Ceremonies.
This is well documented by the likes DJ Hollywood, Grandwizard Theodore, Grandmixer DST, Jazzy Jay, Red Alert, Busy Bee, Kevie Kev and countless others.
It was the DJ’s that were spinning breaks and various measures of music from sampled records, mostly to keep kids out of the gang violence going on in the Bronx and came together with the graffiti artists and the breakers. That’s how, “hip hop.. started out in the parks”, and gave us what we know today. Plugged up to the lamppost and all that.
Crazy Legs and a gang of Puerto Ricans were definitely there from the genesis of the genre as we know it and have various contributions. Marginalized black and brown kids were everywhere in the Bronx back then and I’m sure folks who lived it can attest regardless of what beef they might have had or not had. DJ’s like Disco Wiz were spinning and extending break records for breakdancers to battle to. James Whipper noticeably broke onto the scene around the same time. You can split the hairs on the timing (late 60’s-late 70’s) but idk how much that really means.
Sidenote: For those outside the northeastern US who might not know, the division of black and brown doesn’t exist as deeply as it does in the west or the south. The lines here are heavily blurrred cause most cats are too busy to even notice and moreover care. Flash was from Barbados, Bambatta, Herc and King Charles were Jamaican while Kidd creole repped the Caribbean also. All we’re in NYC at the forefront. To use newer rappers as examples: Noreaga, Fabolous, Jim Jones, Julez Santana, Lloyd Banks, Dave East, etc etc .. those who you may think are Black Americans are usually always Puerto Rican or Dominican, Bajan, etc but Latino nonetheless. That division is overlooked more times than not in the birthplace of the genre.
In the end, I think BET got this tribute right and the pioneers, across the board, should be celebrated for their contributions to the genre regardless of who they are. It doesn’t diminish anyone nor does it rewrite history, to give credit to everyone who took part.
Thanks, if I have any questions I will contact you, and I appreciate that you’re willing to share information.
This is in regards to your sidenote:
I have worked with people who were from or whose family was from: Jamaica, Barbados, St.Croix, Haiti, Dominica, Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, Venezuela, Guyana, Honduras, Ecuador, Saint Vincent, etc.
I tend to view people from the aforementioned groups as being black (a few would probably be classified as white hispanics). However, through conversing with some people you can hear a foreign accent. In addition, at times, some have started off a conversation with "back home" or "we." (In an attempt to distinguish themselves from black americans)
In essence, I don't ask about their nationality or ethnicity, they voluntarily tell you.
Yup. Sometimes it’ll just come out and you’ll know. Other times it won’t and you’ll be chillin on a random day getting lunch or something and the flavorless chicken over rice he got will be met with, “damn yaw ain’t put no Sazon tho!?” I came up with a couple dudes that I used to think were black Americans, just to find out years later they from Panama or DR. It is what it is. We can draw our cultural lines and still rock wit each other. One thing I learned early on though was that this mentality is not acceptable outside the Northeast many times. Folks divide and are hell bent on staying divided.
There is a video in this thread with Fat Joe and Noreaga aka N.O.R.E, Noreaga talks about the time he was locked up and approached by the Latin Kings. Noreaga (Victor Santiago) is half black/half Puerto Rican. He goes on to explain how the Latin Kings were trying to recruit members while he was locked up, but they didn't want to accept him because he's black.
Noreaga tells his story around 1:23:53
Listen from around 1:28:36
Fat Joe will tell a brief story about interacting with Kid Frost.
Listen around 1:23:00
As I listen to Fat Joe, I find some of his comments very troubling. Besides his excessive use of the word n****r, he refers to himself as being black. In addition, states that he is more black than someone who might be black, and Harvard education. Is this to say that being educated and black is an anomaly?
Listen around 1:23:00
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They can have Hip Hop which was used to promote contract manufactured shoes and consumer electronics over domestic production to the black community. A big red flag is AIDS being weaponized such as Eazy-E who ridiculed other rappers.
By all means take this garbage and destroy your community with it. There are other musical genres that we heavily influenced that did not have these destructive elements.
This is what I had to tell a youngling that there are sick people who will enrich themselves at your expense.
By all means take this garbage and destroy your community with it. There are other musical genres that we heavily influenced that did not have these destructive elements.
This is what I had to tell a youngling that there are sick people who will enrich themselves at your expense.
Bots
To your point about Nore, when he was locked up in Spofford he ran with the Puerto Ricans. In the hood everyone knew he was half black and half PR. Around the hood we called him Papi and there was no dwelling on the fact that he was half PR, he was just a regular kid. He did run back to his roots and do that Reggaeton thing then came back to hip hop.
Thanks for the information. I always get the impression that Afro-Latinos aren't always greeted with open arms by the white latinos especially in the entertainment business.
Thank you for setting that straight about the DJ’s. That’s why it wasn’t strange that the DJ’s name came before the MC. Grand Master Flash and the Furious 5, Eric B and Rakim, DJ Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince. Most of the cats in this thread don’t understand NYC culture.
I remember we used to hang out at my homeboy crib who DJ. He had the cool pops who was cool with us hanging at his crib because it kept us off the streets. My boy would be cutting up new records and his dad would come in with the original record the sample came from. My boy would cue the record in the mixer then drop the original. We would bike Ohhhh shit!
Looking back it’s like the kid that DJ was the unofficial leader of our crew. If he had a gig we would carry record crates and make sure his equipment got back home. I remember doing this and never asking for a dime. I don’t even know if my boy was getting paid, all I know is we didn’t pay to get in the party.
And see you said it right there. That was the whole purpose of this music and culture. To keep kids off the streets. That’s what Bambatta brought back from Africa and brought to NYC.DJ’s headlining was actually the norm and the standard. That’s what folks who don’t know the history don’t realize. This is hip hop culture as we know it. The lifeblood, the genesis and the earliest origins. Finding those gems of break beats in dusty ass stacks of records and looping em for the crowd. Always had someone over the DJ’s shoulder lining up the next break and handing it to the DJ for hours on end. Whoever had the best loops and juggled were the quintessential kings of the party. King Mario was at the forefront of this but is often uncredited since he passed away early.
If we keeping it a buck and completely honest though, nobody in the earliest days of hip hop was coming to your party if you aint have the right DJ headlining. Nobody gave two fucks about rhyming or MC’s. The DJ’s was the ones who gave these MC’s that followed, the platform to even begin rhyming on beats. Any early hip hop poster or flyer from the early 60’s-late 70’s we’re all laced with DJ’s names.
I think it’s disingenuous to flat out deny the Caribbean and Latino influences on the earliest days of hip hop because they were in fact there. History shows that. From gangs like the Black Spades, Zulu Nation, Karate Charlie, Popmaster Fabel all coming together keep the white gangs like Hell’s Angels out the Bronx, all played a massive part, and the music and breakdancing we’re at the forefront.
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So are native French citizens. Thats a very technical definition you're employing.
Its really not that technical when it comes to Hatians tho,
Haiti is on the Isle of Hispaniola it shares with Domincan Republic,
The Island Of Hispanola is Part of Latin America.
Thus Making Hatians a Latin people.
lots of hybrid latinos hate that reality..
fact is.. Tainos an otther Indigenous fam
from the west indies looked more like hatians
than they did mestizos, who came later after
invasion of hybrid europeans...
Nobody is going to debate bruhs that undercover REAL HISTORY
lies cant stand up to truth.
and more and more of The Fam waking up everyday,
the system as we know it DIED already
and like Juneteenth
WE AINT GET THE MEMO... I make no excuses for this digression. Facts are Facts.
but chea,
I do agree with Tariq tho, when he says, folks are seeing foundational "black" americans
slowly starting to come together for a cause..."reparations" which is only the start..
and they slowly trying to squeeze in and replace...
We aint hatin, we just aint going for that shit this time around!!! in the
early mid and late days of hip hop,
over all, Latinos support LATINO CULTURE AND PUT NOTHING BEFORE IT
they just dont want to admit HIP HOP INFLUENCE for AA's aboriginal americans...
and you KNOW cacs call us A's as a lowkey slur for african american right?
they be talkin all loud and be like, yeah the A's...
but little do they know it we ARE the A's and it stand for
Aboriginal Americans... they gonna stop calling us that..
with the quickness
LOL
Nores story is an all too familiar one. Those lines are always blurred when you got two or more backgrounds or even lineage that you can trace back to someplace which more people today are wakening up to. Just something to deal with.
Fat Joe’s story is what I was touching on earlier in my rant. That division is really a west coast/Midwest/southern thing. Or an outside the east coast thing I should say. I remember the first time I ever went out west and landed in Oakland. I could literally feel the racism and division in the air, it was that strong. And me being an east coast dude and not being used to that kinda division threw me for a loop.
As for Joe’s Harvard comments, I get what he’s saying. I don’t think he means any disrespect by it and if you speak the language of the street, you know what he’s saying. There’s not much between the lines to be read there.
Correction. It started with the dancers (who later became known as B-Boys). The B-Boys only danced on the break part of the record. Thus the reason Kool Herc began focusing on just the break.
Naw Fat Joe with that Harvard comment is pigeonholing black folk.
As far as Nore being excluded from being Latin Kings. Look at how there are both Latin gangs and white gangs that excluded blacks from joining. Yet both Latin/white gangs either allow each other or allow collaboration their groups.
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