Why are Latinos and others groups trying to say they created Hip-Hop when it was really Black people?

Spielberg wasn't alive yet he made a movie about the Jewish holocaust
Lucas never left earth yet he made a movie about outta space

BGOL's logic is that you had to have been there to speak on issues is one of the dumbest things I've seen on this site (that's saying A LOT).


:lol:
:itsawrap:
I'm glad you caught that! Irrespective of where an individual is from he or she can obtain knowledge of a subject by research. Print media (newspapers, magazines, books) is good, but the best source of information is to talk to people who actually lived during that time period and they tend to be more informative.

 
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Thanks for posting the pod cast. I listened to some of it and I realized they were discussing the Latin influence in hip-hop/rap culture. Our discussion was about the origins of the culture, which to my knowledge began around 1971. For some reason, and this continues to befuddle me, some of the arguments expressed about the Latin influence seem to center around the late 1970's and the 1980's yet, appear to neglect what took place in 1971.

That's tantamount to saying that North America did not exist until Christopher Columbus discovered it (Ironically, Christopher Columbus never set foot on the land we call the United States of America).

The one interview that I did see from a Latino, was from Carlos Mandes, also known as DJ Charlie Chase. I recall during the interview that he first became familiar with that style of music (hip-hop/rap) when he went to visit a keyboard player that he played with in a band. At that point, he stated that he developed an instant affinity for DJing and began DJing in 1975.

I thank you again for the information and I will post his interview:

 
I'm glad you caught that! Irrespective of where an individual is from he or she can obtain knowledge of a subject by research. Print media (newspapers, magazines, books) is good, but the best source of information is to talk to people who actually lived during that time period and then tend to be more informative.


The crazy thing is Bambatta wasn't the leader of the Black Spades. He was something like the president or some other title of the chapter within his projects.
 
What we have here is a bunch of dumb mofos who can barely read and comprehend. First, you got folks not knowing the difference between contributing and creating or creating alone and helping to contribute.
So let's take it to the 5th grade for these dumb dumbs.
con·trib·ute
/kənˈtribyo͞ot/
Learn to pronounce

verb
give (something, especially money) in order to help achieve or provide something.
"she contributed to a private pension"



So if someone contributed (or helped) with the creation of HIP HOP does this imply that they created it? If someone who contributed to the building of a bridge says they poured down some concrete, does this mean they built the bridge? No, they didn't, it was only a small contribution, so when folks conflate the two, it only shows their ignorance.

But let's get another thing straight, no one created HIP HOP it was formed by many contributing components, some dating back as early as the 40s but does this mean that it was created in the 40s? No, because going back to the bridge analogy just because you cleared the land for the bridge in the 40s does not mean the bridge was created then.
Next, you have the idiots who claim people who made rhymes that sort of resembling rap, created HIP-HOP, did they? No, they contributed to HIP HOP similar to the guy who paved the ground for the bridge but sorry that bridge was not created in the 40s, 50s, 60s, or early 70s, because although rap alone isn't HIP HOP alone, you cannot have HIP HOP without rap sort of like having a road doesn't make a bridge but you need a road to have a bridge. Now you are asking how do I know HIP HOP wasn't around during the early 70's well all we have to do is go back to the earliest evidence of rappers, when I mean rappers I mean MCs or people who only rapped (because if you go buy the definition of someone who rhymed as being a rapper, then you have to say that Blondie was an MC for saying rhymes in rapture.

This is why I was so adamant about posting the fist rappers and rap songs, and so far I got as early as 1978ish, so until we can get earlier confirmation I will go with this date, to where HIP HOP was formed or created but as in the bridge scenario contributing factors occurred a lot earlier.


Now that an approximation on the date of HIP HOP creation has been established the question remains who were the contributors? Well, to be honest, there were many contributors some greater than others, but at the time of its creation, Latin people were a part of the HIP-HOP movement they were there as MCs DJs, and even part of the crowds at the block parties and jams.
To debunk my claim I am going to need the following.

1- Proof that MCs and rappers were around before 78 (and they have to be all black no other races)
2- Proof that at the time of the first rappers there were no Spanish DJs playing the music

What doesn't work is proof of who started NYC graffiti (because this is part of the bridge, not even the main part), the gang culture (member without MCs actually rapping it's not HIP HOP and some bullshit video of some old fart going on and on making claims and using it as sort of an appeal to autority. These types of claims are only accepted if they can provide actual evidence to back it up, something as simple as a mix tape from before 78 that shows only blacks involved (actually this isn't actual proof, more evidence, just because the first tape may feature blacks rapping but there is not proof that at that time there weren't Spanish people doing it also), but still, good evidence is better than nothing.

Also calling people Coons and all other personal attacks out of incredulity, is not accepted for anything other than an admission of ignorance, and those entries are automatically filed under evidence that we need to raise our children better and that reading is fundamental.

Well here are the guidelines to actually contributing to real research, feel free to contribute, the more we learn the better off we collectively become.
Oh as a bonus here is a video about a kat my cuz from the South Bronx used to talk about, they call him the king of Disco. Did he create HIP-HOP? No for the billionth time no one person created the genre but as you can see from the video he had a huge influence on its creation.

 
What we have here is a bunch of dumb mofos who can barely read and comprehend. First, you got folks not knowing the difference between contributing and creating or creating alone and helping to contribute.
So let's take it to the 5th grade for these dumb dumbs.
con·trib·ute
/kənˈtribyo͞ot/
Learn to pronounce

verb
give (something, especially money) in order to help achieve or provide something.
"she contributed to a private pension"



So if someone contributed (or helped) with the creation of HIP HOP does this imply that they created it? If someone who contributed to the building of a bridge says they poured down some concrete, does this mean they built the bridge? No, they didn't, it was only a small contribution, so when folks conflate the two, it only shows their ignorance.

But let's get another thing straight, no one created HIP HOP it was formed by many contributing components, some dating back as early as the 40s but does this mean that it was created in the 40s? No, because going back to the bridge analogy just because you cleared the land for the bridge in the 40s does not mean the bridge was created then.
Next, you have the idiots who claim people who made rhymes that sort of resembling rap, created HIP-HOP, did they? No, they contributed to HIP HOP similar to the guy who paved the ground for the bridge but sorry that bridge was not created in the 40s, 50s, 60s, or early 70s, because although rap alone isn't HIP HOP alone, you cannot have HIP HOP without rap sort of like having a road doesn't make a bridge but you need a road to have a bridge. Now you are asking how do I know HIP HOP wasn't around during the early 70's well all we have to do is go back to the earliest evidence of rappers, when I mean rappers I mean MCs or people who only rapped (because if you go buy the definition of someone who rhymed as being a rapper, then you have to say that Blondie was an MC for saying rhymes in rapture.

This is why I was so adamant about posting the fist rappers and rap songs, and so far I got as early as 1978ish, so until we can get earlier confirmation I will go with this date, to where HIP HOP was formed or created but as in the bridge scenario contributing factors occurred a lot earlier.


Now that an approximation on the date of HIP HOP creation has been established the question remains who were the contributors? Well, to be honest, there were many contributors some greater than others, but at the time of its creation, Latin people were a part of the HIP-HOP movement they were there as MCs DJs, and even part of the crowds at the block parties and jams.
To debunk my claim I am going to need the following.

1- Proof that MCs and rappers were around before 78 (and they have to be all black no other races)
2- Proof that at the time of the first rappers there were no Spanish DJs playing the music

What doesn't work is proof of who started NYC graffiti (because this is part of the bridge, not even the main part), the gang culture (member without MCs actually rapping it's not HIP HOP and some bullshit video of some old fart going on and on making claims and using it as sort of an appeal to autority. These types of claims are only accepted if they can provide actual evidence to back it up, something as simple as a mix tape from before 78 that shows only blacks involved (actually this isn't actual proof, more evidence, just because the first tape may feature blacks rapping but there is not proof that at that time there weren't Spanish people doing it also), but still, good evidence is better than nothing.

Also calling people Coons and all other personal attacks out of incredulity, is not accepted for anything other than an admission of ignorance, and those entries are automatically filed under evidence that we need to raise our children better and that reading is fundamental.

Well here are the guidelines to actually contributing to real research, feel free to contribute, the more we learn the better off we collectively become.
Oh as a bonus here is a video about a kat my cuz from the South Bronx used to talk about, they call him the king of Disco. Did he create HIP-HOP? No for the billionth time no one person created the genre but as you can see from the video he had a huge influence on its creation.


No one’s saying contribution is creating. I’m talking about joe saying 50 50 from the start. Aloooooot of people contribute. West coast. The south. Eminem. But where would the term 50 50 fit in there unless your implying ownership. If your talking contribution the south contributed more than them. Even the west. So is he really talking about contribution

reminds me of that mc Shan shit. “Hip hop started out in the park” the bridge the the the bridge.
He didn’t technically say it started in queens. But if it wasn’t checked it could have been that narrative.
 
No one’s saying contribution is creating. I’m talking about joe saying 50 50 from the start. Aloooooot of people contribute. West coast. The south. Eminem. But where would the term 50 50 fit in there unless your implying ownership. If your talking contribution the south contributed more than them. Even the west. So is he really talking about contribution
I think you guys' argument is wrong, what you want to say is that we blacks contributed much more than the P.R. and I would agree with you 100%, if this is indeed your argument, but just like in court you must get your argument in order before presenting it.
Off the record, I believe that P.R. probably contributed around 22-30 percent (then again in the Bronx, if you've never been there, its hard as hell telling who is Spanish and who's light-skin) but lets spitball 30% going as far back as the 40, even being generous by giving them 30%, I still maintain they contributed very little towards modern HIP HIP something I claimed occurred after RUN DMC to when most of them abandoned HIP HOP for electronic dance music or what they used to call freestyle!
 
I think you guys' argument is wrong, what you want to say is that we blacks contributed much more than the P.R. and I would agree with you 100%, if this is indeed your argument, but just like in court you must get your argument in order before presenting it.
Off the record, I believe that P.R. probably contributed around 22-30 percent (then again in the Bronx, if you've never been there, its hard as hell telling who is Spanish and who's light-skin) but lets spitball 30% going as far back as the 40, even being generous by giving them 30%, I still maintain they contributed very little towards modern HIP HIP something I claimed occurred after RUN DMC to when most of them abandoned HIP HOP for electronic dance music or what they used to call freestyle!
Once again. I’m talking inception. Creation. Not contribution. Has he used the word contribution in j that statement I’d agree
 
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Once again. I’m talking inception. Creation. Not contribution. Has he used the word contribution in j that statement I’d agree
Well according to the facts the inception of HIP-HOP was around 78 (unless you can provide evidence that shows mcs and rappers around before) but there is a variable that contributed to HIP HOP that dates as early as the forties.
The problem is folks are going back to the 40s and that contribution and mistaking it for the actual creation of HIP HOP that requires an MC and rapping. Now do you see the problem?
 
Once again. I’m talking inception. Creation. Not contribution. Has he used the word contribution in j that statement I’d agree
Listen these folks are crazy. You have Pete Rock out here talking about 90% of the creation is due to Jamaicans.
So 50% Puerto Rican
90% Jamaican
So that's 140% contribution. They over contributed by 40% which means we had nothing to do with it at all.
 
Listen these folks are crazy. You have Pete Rock out here talking about 90% of the creation is due to Jamaicans.
So 50% Puerto Rican
90% Jamaican
So that's 140% contribution. They over contributed by 40% which means we had nothing to do with it at all.
Trust me Jamcians didn't contribute 90% and no way the PR created 50%, matter of fact anyone who gives you a solid number and says its facts are lying because it's too hard trying to quantify who is responsible for what. But if you had to guess, and be generous I'd give the spanish 30% tops but being that they abandoned HIP HOP after the underground or Brooklyn style took over in favor of the electronic music I say they contributed very little towards modern HIP HOP that we listen to today
Oh yeah, ask Pete Rock what was rocksteady and those break dancers doing when RUN DMC and Rakim came out. They won't answer because the truth is, they packed up their bags and were rocking with Madonna and the other freestyle artist! Realtalk!
 
Trust me Jamcians didn't contribute 90% and no way the PR created 50%, matter of fact anyone who gives you a solid number and says its facts are lying because it's too hard trying to quantify who is responsible for what. But if you had to guess, and be generous I'd give the spanish 30% tops but being that they abandoned HIP HOP after the underground or Brooklyn style took over in favor of the electronic music I say they contributed very little towards modern HIP HOP that we listen to today
Oh yeah, ask Pete Rock what was rocksteady and those break dancers doing when RUN DMC and Rakim came out. They won't answer because the truth is, they packed up their bags and were rocking with Madonna and the other freestyle artist! Realtalk!
Bruh you starting from the 80's.
Black folk were breaking before crews like the Rock Steady Crew even formed. They picked up breaking after the orginal breakers stopped doing it because they were older.

So giving Puerto Ricans that much credit is way to generous.

Are you Puerto Rican or of a Latino/Hispanic background?
 
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Trust me Jamcians didn't contribute 90% and no way the PR created 50%, matter of fact anyone who gives you a solid number and says its facts are lying because it's too hard trying to quantify who is responsible for what. But if you had to guess, and be generous I'd give the spanish 30% tops but being that they abandoned HIP HOP after the underground or Brooklyn style took over in favor of the electronic music I say they contributed very little towards modern HIP HOP that we listen to today
Oh yeah, ask Pete Rock what was rocksteady and those break dancers doing when RUN DMC and Rakim came out. They won't answer because the truth is, they packed up their bags and were rocking with Madonna and the other freestyle artist! Realtalk!
If 4 elements created hip hop which element did Puerto Ricans create. You pick
Break dancing
Graffiti
Rapping
Djing
I can provide evidence that none of that was Puerto Rican creation.
 
Bruh you starting from the 80's.
Black folk were breaking before crews like the Rock Steady Crew even formed. They picked up breaking after the orginal breakers stopping doing it because they were older.

So giving Puerto Ricans that much credit is way to generous.

Are you Puerto Rican or of a Latino/Hispanic background?
No I said when RUN and they dropped that when we officially reclaimed the dying hip hop that was being watered down and slowly evolving to electronic bullshit music.
And I did say that giving them 30% was generous, but to be honest the Bronx is a funny place, hard to tell who is PR who is Black, but even being generous they were a huge part of fucking it up and making it corny.

Here is an example of original Hip Hop.


It went from that to this


To this

Then


We finally we took HIP HOP back with these



My question where was the PRs when we took back HIP HOP from the sucker mcs?
 
Well according to the facts the inception of HIP-HOP was around 78 (unless you can provide evidence that shows mcs and rappers around before) but there is a variable that contributed to HIP HOP that dates as early as the forties.
The problem is folks are going back to the 40s and that contribution and mistaking it for the actual creation of HIP HOP that requires an MC and rapping. Now do you see the problem?
That’s not our argument here. Going back to the 40s shows you who these elements came from. Not where hip hop started as a terminology. Cause there’s also a argument that this stuff came from the carribean. Which would mean they were break dancing doing graffiti rapping and djing.
where only djing was going on in the carribean. And they also got that from the states watching us. And what they call toasting was also copied from the states.
and to correct you rapping was going on way before hip hop. You must of meant rapping and djing along with the other 2

starting at 2:55. Yet none of this has to do with Puerto Ricans
 
For people out of NYC understand this
New York niggaz be on Hispanic dick.
That’s not our argument here. Going back to the 40s shows you who these elements came from. Not where hip hop started as a terminology. Cause there’s also a argument that this stuff came from the carribean. Which would mean they were break dancing doing graffiti rapping and djing.
where only djing was going on in the carribean. And they also got that from the states watching us. And what they call toasting was also copied from the states.
and to correct you rapping was going on way before hip hop. You must of meant rapping and djing along with the other 2

starting at 2:55. Yet none of this has to do with Puerto Ricans

Not arguing against this, but this is like saying the guy who paved the lane for a bridge actually is the one who built the bridge. I mean you need contributions from the road pavers, but the actual bridge is created the day the bridge is up and working.
So without an MC and rhymes, it's not officially HIP-HOP even though you may have helped pave the way for HIP-HOP!
 
New York niggaz be on Hispanic dick.
Brooklyn (other than Ridewood and Williamsburg) doesn't give a fuck about Hispanics. That's why when Brooklyn and the other boroughs started getting involved with HIP HOP all those so-called Spanish pioneers abandon ships fast!
 
For people out of NYC understand this


Not arguing against this, but this is like saying the guy who paved the lane for a bridge actually is the one who built the bridge. I mean you need contributions from the road pavers, but the actual bridge is created the day the bridge is up and working.
So without an MC and rhymes, it's not officially HIP-HOP even though you may have helped pave the way for HIP-HOP!
Let’s start from here to determine this. What exactly is the contribution?
 
No I said when RUN and they dropped that when we officially reclaimed the dying hip hop that was being watered down and slowly evolving to electronic bullshit music.
And I did say that giving them 30% was generous, but to be honest the Bronx is a funny place, hard to tell who is PR who is Black, but even being generous they were a huge part of fucking it up and making it corny.

Here is an example of original Hip Hop.


It went from that to this


To this

Then


We finally we took HIP HOP back with these



My question where was the PRs when we took back HIP HOP from the sucker mcs?

So once again I ask are you PR or of Latino/Hispanic background??
 
Bruh you starting from the 80's.
Black folk were breaking before crews like the Rock Steady Crew even formed. They picked up breaking after the orginal breakers stopping doing it because they were older.

So giving Puerto Ricans that much credit is way to generous.

Are you Puerto Rican or of a Latino/Hispanic background?
He gotta be on the Goya bean side of the game.
No Amercian born Black is that damn dense
 
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He gotta be on the Goya bean side of the game.
No Amercian born Black is that damn dense
I just thought about it. I believe he was the same person saying black people have no culture in another thread and how either Puerto Rican and/or Jamaicans (who he was real close with) have real culture.
Just straight shitin on black folk.

So it all makes sense now.
 
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I just thought about it. I believe he was the same person saying black people have no culture in another thread and how either Puerto Rican and/or Jamaicans (who he was real close with) have real culture.
Just straight shitin on black folk.

So it all makes sense now.
I never said we don't create culture, shit we are the masters of that, the problem is we don't at least this newer generation does not pass culture on to the next generation, sad but this is part of the American fuckery.
Don't believe me try to get a kid to listen, dress or even do the things you did and see how they look at you. We had plenty of cultures, way more than whites but we sold out to the all-mighty dollar!
 
I just thought about it. I believe he was the same person saying black people have no culture in another thread and how either Puerto Rican and/or Jamaicans (who he was real close with) have real culture.
Just straight shitin on black folk.

So it all makes sense now.
Also folks like you are fans of blacks, you know, the type of thinks anything negative said about us is a diss. But I am an actual player, who looks for faults and things to improve on so that we can be competitive vs the opps.
Now imagine someone going to a player on the Mets and telling him he opens too fast and how this makes him vulnerable for the offspeed stuff, would he say that you are shitting on him especially if it's true? A fan might, but not an actual player on the team. A player on a team not only looks at his faults but peeps out what the opps are doing, anything to get a leg up and an advantage.
A fan meanwhile does dumb shit like arguing with other fans about what team is better, these are the same dumb dumbs who go on world star or where ever to argue with white racists, thinking this is what uplifting the race is about.
Me, I'm about teaching logic to my people, encouraging the youths to take up science and mathematics, really uplifting, you and your type are stuck on stupid thinking you get traction by dissing and lose ground by people saying something that you feel is a diss.
Sorry if this isn't in your lane, but not everyone thinks like a guy mentally stuck in Hight School thinking.
Bet this doesn't make sense to you, does it?
 
I just thought about it. I believe he was the same person saying black people have no culture in another thread and how either Puerto Rican and/or Jamaicans (who he was real close with) have real culture.
Just straight shitin on black folk.

So it all makes sense now.
No way!?
Makes perfect sense now!
 
No way!?
Makes perfect sense now!
Can't fuck with the facts so you try to diss the person, classic idiot ad hominem bullshit. Too bad you are not talking to a dumb dumb on your level!
Wanna destroy my argument simply, show me MCS rapping before 78 and save the slick talk for someone don't know no better!
 


One of the first rappers at the beginning of the hip hop period, at the end of the 1970s, was also hip hop's first DJ, DJ Kool Herc. Herc, a Jamaican immigrant, started delivering simple raps at his parties, which some claim were inspired by the Jamaican tradition of toasting.[48] However, Kool Herc himself denies this link (in the 1984 book Hip Hop), saying, "Jamaican toasting? Naw, naw. No connection there. I couldn't play reggae in the Bronx. People wouldn't accept it. The inspiration for rap is James Brown and the album Hustler's Convention".[49] Herc also suggests he was too young while in Jamaica to get into sound system parties: "I couldn't get in. Couldn't get in. I was ten, eleven years old,"[50] and that while in Jamaica, he was listening to James Brown: "I was listening to American music in Jamaica and my favorite artist was James Brown. That's who inspired me. A lot of the records I played were by James Brown."[48]

However, in terms of what was identified in the 2010s as "rap" the source came from Manhattan. Pete DJ Jones said the first person he heard rap was DJ Hollywood, a Harlem (not Bronx) native[51] who was the house DJ at the Apollo Theater. Kurtis Blow also says the first person he heard rhyme was DJ Hollywood.[52] In a 2014 interview, Hollywood said: "I used to like the way Frankie Crocker would ride a track, but he wasn't syncopated to the track though. I liked [WWRL DJ] Hank Spann too, but he wasn't on the one. Guys back then weren't concerned with being musical. I wanted to flow with the record". And in 1975, he ushered in what became known as the Hip Hop style by rhyming syncopated to the beat of an existing record uninterruptedly for nearly a minute. He adapted the lyrics of Isaac Hayes "Good Love 6-9969" and rhymed it to the breakdown part of "Love is the Message".[53] His partner Kevin Smith, better known as Lovebug Starski, took this new style and introduced it to the Bronx Hip Hop set that until then was composed of DJing and B-boying (or beatboxing), with traditional "shout out" style rapping.

The style that Hollywood created and his partner introduced to the Hip Hop set quickly became the standard. Before that time most MC rhymes, based on radio DJs, consisted of short patters that were disconnected thematically; they were separate unto themselves. But by using song lyrics, Hollywood gave his rhyme an inherent flow and theme. This was quickly noticed, and the style spread. By the end of the 1970s, artists such as Kurtis Blow and The Sugarhill Gang were starting to receive radio airplay and make an impact far outside of New York City, on a national scale. Blondie's 1981 single, "Rapture", was one of the first songs featuring rap to top the U.S. Billboard Hot 100 chart.



 
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They had rappers and djs plus they supported the music.
Can't fuck with the facts so you try to diss the person, classic idiot ad hominem bullshit. Too bad you are not talking to a dumb dumb on your level!
Wanna destroy my argument simply, show me MCS rapping before 78 and save the slick talk for someone don't know no better!
Your using 2 different words mc and rapping. Define mc.
 
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