Who is your one 1 pound for pound fighter* and why?

[TJervey]

A thread that is about Floyd, but formulated to not include Floyd so that when people bring Floyd... he can talk shit about Floyd.

It is the same as someone creating a thread about the 'biggest known cheater of recent years'... knowing that someone will say Pac just because he is a high profile boxer that raises a lot of questions and then bashing Pac...

Why do we need a P4P for the past 2 years... shit in two years, Lamont Peterson is in the running for being on a top ten list just off the Ortiz fight alone. Inactivity in a two year window when most of the top guys may have had 3 - 4 fights... Klitzchko without question should be on everyone's list for years of dominance but for the last two years...

At this point I've sort of lost interest in debates about Floyd and Manny... I'm more in line with rating who is actually fighting, and fighting the best fights... That's why I wouldn't include Floyd as my P4P top spot, not based on his past and a win over Ortiz, that is not in the spirit of what a current P4P list is... P4P overall for the last 10 years, yes, but current, nah, not after one fight. As far as Manny, he had me fooled for a minute, but I realize now, he is the product of extremely intelligent match making, but he's done it with smoke and mirrors also...

 

[Alaskanredman]

At this point I've sort of lost interest in debates about Floyd and Manny... I'm more in line with rating who is actually fighting, and fighting the best fights... That's why I wouldn't include Floyd as my P4P top spot, not based on his past and a win over Ortiz, that is not in the spirit of what a current P4P list is... P4P overall for the last 10 years, yes, but current, nah, not after one fight. As far as Manny, he had me fooled for a minute, but I realize now, he is the product of extremely intelligent match making, but he's done it with smoke and mirrors also...

This thread is stupid, but I understand your point especially when we all talked about it a few months ago and most people were saying Martinez or JMM were the top guys. Why are we back here again... I have given my theory.

 

[P03t]

I got Ward too, but by the slimmest of margins... Ass whipping? I doubt that, I think it's gonna be a helluva fight though...

no ass whipping...he will just shut Froch down....probably end up a UD...

 

[P03t]

I got Ward too, but by the slimmest of margins... Ass whipping? I doubt that, I think it's gonna be a helluva fight though...

no ass whipping...he will just shut Froch down....probably end up a UD...

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

Based on the criteria, I'd go with Carl Froch honestly... I know this won't be a popular choice, but in the last 2 years Dude has fought:

Jean Pascal
Jermain Taylor
Andre Dirrell
Mikkel Kessler
Arthur Abraham
Glen Johnson
and will fight Andre Ward soon

With only a close disputable loss to Kessler on his ledger... That's a hell of a run. Not to say he's the most gifted, but he consistently fights and for the most part beats top fighters.

It would be difficult for me to give it to BHop or Martinez, because they don't fight often enough and haven't fought the same level of competition, Manny is fighting retreads and PBF is fighting nobody (boxers anyway)...

Damn, that came out of left field. I like where you went with you pick.

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

A thread that is about Floyd, but formulated to not include Floyd so that when people bring Floyd... he can talk shit about Floyd.

It is the same as someone creating a thread about the 'biggest known cheater of recent years'... knowing that someone will say Pac just because he is a high profile boxer that raises a lot of questions and then bashing Pac...

Why do we need a P4P for the past 2 years... shit in two years, Lamont Peterson is in the running for being on a top ten list just off the Ortiz fight alone. Inactivity in a two year window when most of the top guys may have had 3 - 4 fights... Klitzchko without question should be on everyone's list for years of dominance but for the last two years...

I honestly don't even think you are a dude. Cause the level of sensitivity just ain't normal for dudes. Nobody is clowning your boy. We are talking about fighters who are active and deserve to be considered number 1. If you think your boy derserves it then say so and stop crying.

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

no ass whipping...he will just shut Froch down....probably end up a UD...

It is going to be a dope fight. I love how the tourney played out. Nobody could duck anyone. Fight or go home.

 

[P03t]

It is going to be a dope fight. I love how the tourney played out. Nobody could duck anyone. Fight or go home.

 

[Alaskanredman]

I honestly don't even think you are a dude. Cause the level of sensitivity just ain't normal for dudes. Nobody is clowning your boy. We are talking about fighters who are active and deserve to be considered number 1. If you think your boy derserves it then say so and stop crying.

yes, buk. I'm so wrapped up in Floyd that I can't go a week without talking about Floyd and I respond to every comment about Floyd... wait that's what you do.

I honestly don't care if you want clown Floyd just come out an clown him. I remember begging you to expose him not to long ago and you had very little to say. You have been so worried about people saying he was P4P for a while. We have discussed this not even that long ago and most people are in agreement with Floyd not being the top dude for the current P4P. Saying he's inactive is news to everyone.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

....but you ask who is "YOUR" P4P fighter...some cats respond with PBF & cats still get bent out of shape?....

he isn't on any list because he retired...not because his skills diminished or he took an L....

after he beats Ortiz...he will reclaim his spot somewhere in the top 5.....

If/when he beats Ortiz, he goes back to the top. He's like the p4p king in absentia.

 

[Alaskanredman]

If/when he beats Ortiz, he goes back to the top. He's like the p4p king in absentia.

I will say this if Floyd dominates then yes, but if Pac also dominates then that will add some wrinkles to the debate. If Floyd has trouble, but gets a close win then... Shit even if JMM wins it will make it tough.

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

If/when he beats Ortiz, he goes back to the top. He's like the p4p king in absentia.

That's interesting. If that's how people want to view it then that is cool. I will be blown away if PBF loses to a guy nobody even talked about as a top fighter a year ago/ The win against Ortiz means nothing unless Ortiz shows us he deserves to be in the ring with PBF. Where would Ortiz be ranked if he won the fight. Seeing how a win over Berto and PBF would be on some crazy stuff.

 

[P03t]

yes, buk. I'm so wrapped up in Floyd that I can't go a week without talking about Floyd and I respond to every comment about Floyd... wait that's what you do.

I honestly don't care if you want clown Floyd just come out an clown him. I remember begging you to expose him not to long ago and you had very little to say. You have been so worried about people saying he was P4P for a while. We have discussed this not even that long ago and most people are in agreement with Floyd not being the top dude for the current P4P. Saying he's inactive is news to everyone.

for me sometimes I get tired running circles with the same topics with these two....& the hate is strong ....if you don't like a particular fighter for whatever reasons just don't post anything about him....simple...

for me its never that personal....its a sport.....I just don't understand the bias some cats have with certain fighters

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

but he still commands attention...he outsells Pac on PPV buys which just shows you if he is inactive or not he has a following...

he isn't on any major P4P ranking but everyone in Boxing knows PBF status in the sport....he is regarded as the most technically skilled boxer of this generation...

Floyd has been in the top 10 P4P rankings for over the past 10 yrs...only time he wasn't in the top 10 or wasn't the overall #1 P4P was due to him retiring....

I don't know why cats get so bent out of shape about Floyd....he was P4P king for how many yrs while Pac just recently occupied the top spot....

The topic is about who is number 1. This is a topic about boxing. To make it about anything else is stupid.

To get back on the topic. Carl has really snuck into the crowd with me. You cant deny his results lately. Tourney's like the 168 one is what boxing needs.

 

[P03t]

The topic is about who is number 1. This is a topic about boxing. To make it about anything else is stupid.

To get back on the topic. Carl has really snuck into the crowd with me. You cant deny his results lately. Tourney's like the 168 one is what boxing needs.

Froch is okay but is overrated like many Brit fighters IMO...he has no answer for Ward who is more skilled than him....dude even knows this thats why he is on a campaign trash talking trying to get Ward off his game plan which won't happen....

I think alot of cats can beat Froch...hell Pascal took him to the limit in that fight...I think it was fight of the year or a nominee...either way Pascal almost beat dude in his hometown...& Pascal has huge holes in his game....

Tournaments are great but it can't drag out too long...thats why this tourney kind of died down...injuries...alot of cats either didn't want to face each other or had other aspirations in mind....

I would like to see more tourneys in Boxing....how about more venues...LV isn't the only place to hold big fights...Wlad & Haye look great...too bad the fight wasn't

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

Froch is okay but is overrated like many Brit fighters IMO...he has no answer for Ward who is more skilled than him....dude even knows this thats why he is on a campaign trash talking trying to get Ward off his game plan which won't happen....

I think alot of cats can beat Froch...hell Pascal took him to the limit in that fight...I think it was fight of the year or a nominee...either way Pascal almost beat dude in his hometown...& Pascal has huge holes in his game....

Tournaments are great but it can't drag out too long...thats why this tourney kind of died down...injuries...alot of cats either didn't want to face each other or had other aspirations in mind....

I would like to see more tourneys in Boxing....how about more venues...LV isn't the only place to hold big fights...Wlad & Haye look great...too bad the fight wasn't

Hopkins middleweight tourney didn't drag. You just get the four champs and figh. It is over quickly that way.

 

[P03t]

Hopkins middleweight tourney didn't drag. You just get the four champs and figh. It is over quickly that way.

yeah but in this tourney you had 6 (3 Americans 3 Euros)

you know how difficult it is to set up fights?

next alot of them had straps....some wanted either a hometown fight venue or neutral fight venue....Dirrell bowed out when he had to fight Ward & since they were friends he didn't want no parts of the tourney which was B/S...

they made it cool but it was difficult to accomplish with the fights spread over years...with 4 fighters maybe fighting for #1 contender or something else would be easier....

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

yeah but in this tourney you had 6 (3 Americans 3 Euros)

you know how difficult it is to set up fights?

that's why I said four champs. IBF, WBA, WBC, and WBO titles on the line. three fights total. And for giggles and grins have a different top contender in each organization to fight for a chance to meet the winner of the title tourney.

 

[P03t]

that's why I said four champs. IBF, WBA, WBC, and WBO titles on the line. three fights total. And for giggles and grins have a different top contender in each organization to fight for a chance to meet the winner of the title tourney.

that would be great but thats a fantasy unfortunatley....

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

that would be great but thats a fantasy unfortunatley....

That is almost how the middleweight tourney was setup. peep the thread about BHOP. He even suggest a tourney.

 

[tp2001]

Froch is okay but is overrated like many Brit fighters IMO...he has no answer for Ward who is more skilled than him....dude even knows this thats why he is on a campaign trash talking trying to get Ward off his game plan which won't happen....

I think alot of cats can beat Froch...hell Pascal took him to the limit in that fight...I think it was fight of the year or a nominee...either way Pascal almost beat dude in his hometown...& Pascal has huge holes in his game....

Tournaments are great but it can't drag out too long...thats why this tourney kind of died down...injuries...alot of cats either didn't want to face each other or had other aspirations in mind....

I would like to see more tourneys in Boxing....how about more venues...LV isn't the only place to hold big fights...Wlad & Haye look great...too bad the fight wasn't

Froch is one of the most overrated fighters in the sport right now and I hope Ward embarrasses the shit out of him...

 

[Zeferino]

Froch is okay but is overrated like many Brit fighters IMO...he has no answer for Ward who is more skilled than him....dude even knows this thats why he is on a campaign trash talking trying to get Ward off his game plan which won't happen....

I think alot of cats can beat Froch...hell Pascal took him to the limit in that fight...I think it was fight of the year or a nominee...either way Pascal almost beat dude in his hometown...& Pascal has huge holes in his game....

Tournaments are great but it can't drag out too long...thats why this tourney kind of died down...injuries...alot of cats either didn't want to face each other or had other aspirations in mind....

I would like to see more tourneys in Boxing....how about more venues...LV isn't the only place to hold big fights...Wlad & Haye look great...too bad the fight wasn't

Yeah, but Froch keeps winning and he´s facing good competition. On the other hand, I think Froch is actually being underrated because he´s a big doofy looking white guy from Europe. If Froch were a black dude doing what he´s doing, he might get a little more credit. I won´t be surprised if he manages to beat Ward. He´s not going to let Ward do that John Ruiz/Bhop hugging mugging style. That´s a 50/50 fight to me.

 

[9791Style]

Off-subject, but who the fuck is this? She is BANGIN'!!

 

[Zeferino]

Off-subject, but who the fuck is this? She is BANGIN'!!

That's my wife. I'm thinking of kicking her to the curb because she's not looking as good as she used to.

 

[IT IS WHAT IT IS]

Froch is one of the most overrated fighters in the sport right now and I hope Ward embarrasses the shit out of him...

I keep hearing this, but someone please explain this statement to me He is not rated in the Top 10 or even spoken of as one of the best fighters pound for pound, he is highly rated in his division AND he has beaten, all he has faced over the past two or three years, with the exception of Kessler, including a man who, BHop has been glorified for beating, and was considered the top in his division AFTER Froch beat him... Please, someone explain to me how this OVERRATES a fighter?!?!?! For me, this is a case of race/nationality being brought into the equation and it's really sad... If more of our 'favorite' fighters , had the same fighting heart and desire to fight all comers like this guy, the sport would definitely be much better for it...

Yeah, but Froch keeps winning and he´s facing good competition. On the other hand, I think Froch is actually being underrated because he´s a big doofy looking white guy from Europe. If Froch were a black dude doing what he´s doing, he might get a little more credit. I won´t be surprised if he manages to beat Ward. He´s not going to let Ward do that John Ruiz/Bhop hugging mugging style. That´s a 50/50 fight to me.

My sentiments exactly...

 

[Alaskanredman]

Froch is one of the most overrated fighters in the sport right now and I hope Ward embarrasses the shit out of him...

I won't say he is completely overrated cause for his weight class there is a ton of dudes with serious flaws in the game, but that isn't his problem. They are still some of the best and he's beating them. If Ward and Bute weren't out there and that lost to Kessler didn't go down the way it did, he would be similar to Klitschko in just having a weaker division than the rest that he is winning in. With that said, Ward and Bute would do him in and they have been on a smash tour also. Maybe not everyone on the level of Froch's comp, but I wouldn't even talk about Froch for P4P if I don't even think he can fuck with the people at the top of his own division.

 

[P03t]

I won't say he is completely overrated cause for his weight class there is a ton of dudes with serious flaws in the game, but that isn't his problem. They are still some of the best and he's beating them. If Ward and Bute weren't out there and that lost to Kessler didn't go down the way it did, he would be similar to Klitschko in just having a weaker division than the rest that he is winning in. With that said, Ward and Bute would do him in and they have been on a smash tour also. Maybe not everyone on the level of Froch's comp, but I wouldn't even talk about Froch for P4P if I don't even think he can fuck with the people at the top of his own division.

C/S bruh....

also race has nothing to do with it....

 

[tp2001]

I won't say he is completely overrated cause for his weight class there is a ton of dudes with serious flaws in the game, but that isn't his problem. They are still some of the best and he's beating them. If Ward and Bute weren't out there and that lost to Kessler didn't go down the way it did, he would be similar to Klitschko in just having a weaker division than the rest that he is winning in. With that said, Ward and Bute would do him in and they have been on a smash tour also. Maybe not everyone on the level of Froch's comp, but I wouldn't even talk about Froch for P4P if I don't even think he can fuck with the people at the top of his own division.

I'm just not buying what he's selling...Here's his list of fights since 08: Pascal, Taylor, Direll, Kessler, Abraham, and Glen Johnson. Of those fights, one could say his most impressive win was against Taylor...I have Jermain low on my list for good fighters and it has been so since the first Hopkins fight. The Pascal and Direll fights were in the UK, and I saw the Direll fight...Froch was getting flustered most of the fight and he still got the decision

That leaves Kessler, Abraham, and Glen Johnson. Lost against Kessler, then beat Abraham by outsmarting him the whole fight (I say this was his best performance IMO) then beat Glen...Maybe it is the division, but compared to some of the others out there, only the weight classes from 125 to 147 have more good fighters to choose from...

Maybe this fight against Ward will convince me otherwise...

 

[Alaskanredman]

I'm just not buying what he's selling...Here's his list of fights since 08: Pascal, Taylor, Direll, Kessler, Abraham, and Glen Johnson. Of those fights, one could say his most impressive win was against Taylor...I have Jermain low on my list for good fighters and it has been so since the first Hopkins fight. The Pascal and Direll fights were in the UK, and I saw the Direll fight...Froch was getting flustered most of the fight and he still got the decision

That leaves Kessler, Abraham, and Glen Johnson. Lost against Kessler, then beat Abraham by outsmarting him the whole fight (I say this was his best performance IMO) then beat Glen...Maybe it is the division, but compared to some of the others out there, only the weight classes from 125 to 147 have more good fighters to choose from...

Maybe this fight against Ward will convince me otherwise...

I agree, but I think he gets more credit because he has fought a lot of the guys in his division compared to a lot of big named boxers in other divisions that get mentioned for P4P. Does that make him one of the best... fuck no. I see nothing impressive in him in general and beating the Clottey's of your division by the skin of your teeth just doesn't do it for me. Then again, I'm still amazed by the people who think highly of Margarito so I give up on understanding how people want to rank guys. I won't completely take credit away from him though he has been in there paying his dues, but let him beat a Ward or a Bute then we can talk.

 

[TJervey]

I agree, but I think he gets more credit because he has fought a lot of the guys in his division compared to a lot of big named boxers in other divisions that get mentioned for P4P. Does that make him one of the best... fuck no. I see nothing impressive in him in general and beating the Clottey's of your division by the skin of your teeth just doesn't do it for me. Then again, I'm still amazed by the people who think highly of Margarito so I give up on understanding how people want to rank guys. I won't completely take credit away from him though he has been in there paying his dues, but let him beat a Ward or a Bute then we can talk.

I feel you, and I don't totally disagree with your point, but I guess we have a different view on P4P criteria. For example, is there really that much of a difference between the guys he's beaten, in relation to the guys Manny and Floyd have beaten in the same time frame? Both beat past their prime fighters, fighters coming off losses, etc. Froch, while I never said he is the most gifted fighter, has been the most consistent in terms of his level of competition and performance... As far as Manny, I wouldn't rate him as #1 at this point, because of the consistent match making bait and switch tactics, and his inability to make a fight with PBF. And Floyd, while he is the most talented overall fighter IMO, long layoffs really don't translate into P4P for me. Just because a fighter is the best talent, doesn't mean he should be rated #1 just because he has one fight. There are fighters, who may be less talented, who are consistently fighting and proving themselves in the ring, not just on past accomplishments. I don't believe Manny or Floyd should be considered in the running for #1 until they fight each other, because for the most part, anyone else they fight they will be head and shoulders above in terms of overall skills, therefore proving nothing if they beat them!?!?! Froch, on the other hand, if he beats Ward will be proving a hell of a lot more than Floyd if he beats Ortiz and Manny if he gets by Marquez....

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

I feel you, and I don't totally disagree with your point, but I guess we have a different view on P4P criteria. For example, is there really that much of a difference between the guys he's beaten, in relation to the guys Manny and Floyd have beaten in the same time frame? Both beat past their prime fighters, fighters coming off losses, etc. Froch, while I never said he is the most gifted fighter, has been the most consistent in terms of his level of competition and performance... As far as Manny, I wouldn't rate him as #1 at this point, because of the consistent match making bait and switch tactics, and his inability to make a fight with PBF. And Floyd, while he is the most talented overall fighter IMO, long layoffs really don't translate into P4P for me. Just because a fighter is the best talent, doesn't mean he should be rated #1 just because he has one fight. There are fighters, who may be less talented, who are consistently fighting and proving themselves in the ring, not just on past accomplishments. I don't believe Manny or Floyd should be considered in the running for #1 until they fight each other, because for the most part, anyone else they fight they will be head and shoulders above in terms of overall skills, therefore proving nothing if they beat them!?!?! Froch, on the other hand, if he beats Ward will be proving a hell of a lot more than Floyd if he beats Ortiz and Manny if he gets by Marquez....

i actually like what you said here. It made a great deal of sense. I disagree with the match making part about manny. For the simple fact that he has been the smaller fighter in each match. I think the size difference should get a little bit more credit than it does with him. I like hiw you said you couldnt put manny or pbf number 1 until they fight each other. That makes a lot of sense. But if one guy is semi retired and they got all this litigations going on. A fight between the two doesnt really overshadow what they are doing in the ring or not doing.

I think if bhop beats chad and manny gets a draw against jmm. I will have him leap frog manny and sergio. His boxing talents have not decreased at all. The fact he is still doing it is impressive. Bhop needed that lost to joe. Bhop went hollywood and thought he was entitled to a decision just cause he competed. It took him the two taylor fights and the joe fight to get him focused again. Now he looks great.

 

[Alaskanredman]

I feel you, and I don't totally disagree with your point, but I guess we have a different view on P4P criteria. For example, is there really that much of a difference between the guys he's beaten, in relation to the guys Manny and Floyd have beaten in the same time frame? Both beat past their prime fighters, fighters coming off losses, etc. Froch, while I never said he is the most gifted fighter, has been the most consistent in terms of his level of competition and performance... As far as Manny, I wouldn't rate him as #1 at this point, because of the consistent match making bait and switch tactics, and his inability to make a fight with PBF. And Floyd, while he is the most talented overall fighter IMO, long layoffs really don't translate into P4P for me. Just because a fighter is the best talent, doesn't mean he should be rated #1 just because he has one fight. There are fighters, who may be less talented, who are consistently fighting and proving themselves in the ring, not just on past accomplishments. I don't believe Manny or Floyd should be considered in the running for #1 until they fight each other, because for the most part, anyone else they fight they will be head and shoulders above in terms of overall skills, therefore proving nothing if they beat them!?!?! Froch, on the other hand, if he beats Ward will be proving a hell of a lot more than Floyd if he beats Ortiz and Manny if he gets by Marquez....

I don't think we are in that much of disagreement here. I wouldn't rank Floyd at the top cause he's inactive. Manny isn't fighting the best and unlike Floyd, Manny has had Marquez out there as a serious threat that he could have faced instead of the Margaritos or Clotteys. We agree there. Also let's be clear Shane was seen as that dude until Floyd beat him. I didn't understand and I was in the minority would was saying Shane was done. Shit, I was still getting shit from cats by shitting on the Pac v Shane fight so I think a lot of cats rewriting history to make it seem like Floyd v Shane was another bullshit choice on Floyd's part.

Here's the difference. Froch at his skill level didn't dominate the Clotteys in his weight class, but yes we can give him greater credit for the win. IMO, the thing about being part of the P4P ranking is that you have to be a fighter who could compete with the best of your weight class and do the same in with the elite of other weight classes or at least it is understood that if the sizes were the same that this would be the case. If Floyd or Pac were bigger, I could see them without question giving Martinez a run for his money. I seriously doubt with the present size advantage and without any what ifs about size, that Froch could beat Martinez. Shit, I doubt he can beat Ward, but like said if he did then we have something to talk about.

 

[tp2001]

I disagree with the match making part about manny. For the simple fact that he has been the smaller fighter in each match. I think the size difference should get a little bit more credit than it does with him

I disagree with this point above







B-Hop is ranked 3rd below Marquez and Martinez in my list...I have it as:

1. JMM
2. Sergio
3. B-Hop
4. Bute
5. Khan (for the moment)

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

I disagree with this point above







B-Hop is ranked 3rd below Marquez and Martinez in my list...I have it as:

1. JMM
2. Sergio
3. B-Hop
4. Bute
5. Khan (for the moment)

Well if that is how you see it. I mean dude has no wins over a pound 4 pound fighter in their prime ever. Lost to two fighter people consider the best right now. I mean how a fighter who hasn't proven he can beat an elite fighter is the best is your opinion. I hope you can at least explain how you came to this conclusion.

Yeah, Khan has potential. But he is arguably not even the best 140 pound fighter. Bute is nice. But I need to see him in the ring with an elite fighter. At least once.

 

[Alaskanredman]

Well if that is how you see it. I mean dude has no wins over a pound 4 pound fighter in their prime ever. Lost to two fighter people consider the best right now. I mean how a fighter who hasn't proven he can beat an elite fighter is the best is your opinion. I hope you can at least explain how you came to this conclusion.

Yeah, Khan has potential. But he is arguably not even the best 140 pound fighter. Bute is nice. But I need to see him in the ring with an elite fighter. At least once.

within two years anyone with impressive wins is in the running. Do you not understand your own thread... or at least why this thread is flawed...

Also JMM had life or death wars with Pac and most people can't call it and aren't you the one who constantly says his lost Floyd doesn't count and now you want to use it against him...