Where Does Lebron Rank All-Time For You As Of Today?

[RoadRage]

Please do not tell me or let anybody on this board know that you think that Lebron has a better jump shooter than Bird....

Bird rebounded, shot way better, had better B Ball IQ, better free throw shooter, better passer (averaged the same amount of assist without being primary ball handler), and had way more killer instinct. Only lacked James athletism, but more skilled offensively.


Use a different example please.

The good thing about facts is that its not what you think or feel... The fact remains that at his best season Bird made only 98 three pointers and that was considered amazing for his size, yet last year James made only 87 and it was considered a bad year for him, remember he shot 120 the year before...
This is not opinion or how I think/feel these are facts...

 

[HotNixon36]

Also not being fluid is another terminology that has no stats or data to back up, it simply a made up term that only resides in the mind of the person who is giving his opinion, out of all the stats that exist, these are the only type of stats that the LeBron hates can pull up...
BTW whats the use of being fluid if it doesn't show up in results, stats or awards.

Fluid is terminology that basketball players and coaches use. Ask a basketball player or coach what is means. It ain't meant for everybody to know.

 

[RoadRage]

Fluid is terminology that basketball players and coaches use. Ask a basketball player or coach what is means. It ain't meant for everybody to know.

Which aint worth the price of rice in China without results to back it up...

 

[HotNixon36]

The good thing about facts is that its not what you think or feel... The fact remains that at his best season Bird made only 98 three pointers and that was considered amazing for his size, yet last year James made only 87 and it was considered a bad year for him, remember he shot 120 the year before...
This is not opinion or how I think/feel these are facts...

When the 3 point shot was added to the NBA in 79 or 80, it was looked at as a gimmick. Teams ran their offenses through their big men when Bird was playing. Teams did not attempt as many 3 pointers as now, that was considered a very low percentage shot.

That is the reason there were not a lot of great, high scoring, shooting guards in the 80's. Jordan was the only shooting guard that led the league in scoring in the 80's and majority of 90's until Iverson in 98-99. Dantley and Gervin were true small forwards.

 

[RoadRage]

When the 3 point shot was added to the NBA in 79 or 80, it was looked at as a gimmick. Teams ran their offenses through their big men when Bird was playing. Teams did not attempt as many 3 pointers as now, that was considered a very low percentage shot.

That is the reason there were not a lot of great, high scoring, shooting guards in the 80's. Jordan was the only shooting guard that led the league in scoring in the 80's and majority of 90's until Iverson in 98-99. Dantley and Gervin were true small forwards.

So what your saying is that players like LeBron have a lot more on the table to both worry about on defense but also a lot more shit they have to home in on in order to be a star in todays NBA, may it dare name this extra stuff they have to be good at skill????

 

[RoadRage]

Basically you are explaining why LeBron and players of today are more skilled not that they have less....

 

[HotNixon36]

Basically you are explaining why LeBron and players of today are more skilled not that they have less....

Nah, basically I am saying Lebron can't shoot well from the outside, he has no go-to moves, and no killer instinct.

 

[RoadRage]

Nah, basically I am saying Lebron can't shoot well from the outside, he has no go-to moves, and no killer instinct.

Let me guess, the dog ate the paper that had all your stats to back your claim... Oh wait, is this one of those times we have to take your word for it based off what you seen with your own eyes....
Gotcha, I've heard this argument before...
Feel free to fade in the sunset now...

 

[HotNixon36]

Let me guess, the dog ate the paper that had all your stats to back your claim... Oh wait, is this one of those times we have to take your word for it based off what you seen with your own eyes....
Gotcha, I've heard this argument before...
Feel free to fade in the sunset now...

Just because a dude fucked a lot of women, it does not make him a player... Stats don't tell the whole story.

 

[RoadRage]

Just because a dude fucked a lot of women, it does not make him a player... Stats don't tell the whole story.

It may not tell the whole story but between stats and results it tells a heck of lot more than a person using ambiguous opinionated terms like fluid and skilled to rank a player...
Look what you think you see is fine and all, but with out some stats to substantiate at least some what you are saying, well it does seem to come off as ass talk..

 

[IT IS WHAT IT IS]

When the 3 point shot was added to the NBA in 79 or 80, it was looked at as a gimmick. Teams ran their offenses through their big men when Bird was playing. Teams did not attempt as many 3 pointers as now, that was considered a very low percentage shot.

That is the reason there were not a lot of great, high scoring, shooting guards in the 80's. Jordan was the only shooting guard that led the league in scoring in the 80's and majority of 90's until Iverson in 98-99. Dantley and Gervin were true small forwards.

This also explains Birds low 3pg fga and 3pts made... But, fools will avoid the whole dynamic of 80s basketball in order to slant their bullshit argument.

For example, during Birds Career Average # of 3s attempted was 305, avg made 112
Since 2003: 3pt fga 568, made 244 in terms of seasonal leaders.

Huge difference, so any career totals comparisons are skewed and bullshit because the 3 was not as much a part of the game as it is now...

 

[AllUniverse17]

No, I did not diss him. Anybody that has ever played or coached basketball from college level on up, knows Lebron has a weak ass jumpshot, has no go-to moves, and has no killer instinct. This is all truth. He can pass pretty well, but he lacks a lot of the basics. Being a good athlete does not make you an offensively skilled basketball player. There is no skill that Lebron has mastered on offense. He is pretty good all around, but has never been a fluid offensive player. Kobe, Iverson, Carmelo, Durant, etc.... are pure, natural scorers.

All these guys you named had great offensive skills except Bill Russell. That is the reason he would never be in my top 5 either. If you are a top 5 player, you should have mastered at least one skill. There is nothing Lebron is the best at.

Who is your top 5?

If you think LeBron didnt master vision and passing then i dont even know if you should be allowed to talk ball.

He is top 5 greatest distributors of all time. Thats a given for EVERYONE, even the worst haters.

If you meant strickly scoring skills, you dont consider finishing a skill???

 

[RoadRage]

This also explains Birds low 3pg fga and 3pts made... But, fools will avoid the whole dynamic of 80s basketball in order to slant their bullshit argument.

For example, during Birds Career Average # of 3s attempted was 305, avg made 112
Since 2003: 3pt fga 568, made 244

Huge difference, so any career totals comparisons are skewed and bullshit because the 3 was not as much a part of the game as it is now...

You can also flip it to say that back then teams did not defend against the three point as much, knowing that most could not shoot it that well.. Often they would give the bigger guys that shot daring them to take it..
Plus in todays game big men also have to know how to defend against the three, fighting through much more pick and rolls.. Back then only the Celtics and Stocckton and Malone was doing the pick and roll, now every team does it and now their are just so many more schemes to deal with...

 

[HotNixon36]

Who is your top 5?

If you think LeBron didnt master vision and passing then i dont even know if you should be allowed to talk ball.

He is top 5 greatest distributors of all time. Thats a given for EVERYONE, even the worst haters.

If you meant strickly scoring skills, you dont consider finishing a skill???

I got Magic, Stockton, Jason Kidd, Mark Jackson, Nash, CP3, Oscar, etc... way ahead of him, he ain't no damn master passer, but a pretty good passer and pretty good vision. He doesn't have no killer scoring instincts, the only thing you can do with the ball is dribble, pass, or shoot. He only does one well, but he ain't no master.

 

[incogneg]

Nah, basically I am saying Lebron can't shoot well from the outside, he has no go-to moves, and no killer instinct.

So what did I watch in the NBA finals? Also when he carried that sorry team to the finals the year before? No killer instinct? Kobe had a killer instinct but who was the better basketball player and teammate. I'm sure most would say LeBron hands down

 

[incogneg]

I got Magic, Stockton, Jason Kidd, Mark Jackson, Nash, CP3, Oscar, etc... way ahead of him, he ain't no damn master passer, but a pretty good passer and pretty good vision. He doesn't have no killer scoring instincts, the only thing you can do with the ball is dribble, pass, or shoot. He only does one well, but he ain't no master.

Of the list you just named. Who are you picking to start your franchise.... I'll throw in Kobe or anyone else from this era as well. I'll wait...

You're dissing LeBron bc hes an 8/10 on EVERYTHING. you've proved his greatness right there... He does everything and is extremely durable..

 

[RoadRage]

I got Magic, Stockton, Jason Kidd, Mark Jackson, Nash, CP3, Oscar, etc... way ahead of him, he ain't no damn master passer, but a pretty good passer and pretty good vision. He doesn't have no killer scoring instincts, the only thing you can do with the ball is dribble, pass, or shoot. He only does one well, but he ain't no master.

Can you name one player who has had more big time games in bigger arenas than LeBron, take anyone in your top ten list then compare their biggest games with LeBrons and tell me who big games came at bigger times..
Anyone can pass and shoot when they are hot, but how many people can consistently have big games when the stakes are high..

 

[HotNixon36]

Of the list you just named. Who are you picking to start your franchise.... I'll throw in Kobe or anyone else from this era as well. I'll wait...

You're dissing LeBron bc hes an 8/10 on EVERYTHING. you've proved his greatness right there... He does everything and is extremely durable..

I am not dissing him, I am just saying Lebron can't shoot well from the outside, he has no go-to moves, and no killer instinct.

 

[HotNixon36]

Can you name one player who has had more big time games in bigger arenas than LeBron, take anyone in your top ten list then compare their biggest games with LeBrons and tell me who big games came at bigger times..
Anyone can pass and shoot when they are hot, but how many people can consistently have big games when the stakes are high..

Read my first post, I give the man credit for his accomplishments and stats. You are right, he has had big games, and led teams to championships. He has been Finals MVP and League MVP at least 3 times each. I got all that, but, I am saying Lebron can't shoot well from the outside, he has no go-to moves, and no killer instinct.

 

[RoadRage]

Read my first post, I give the man credit for his accomplishments and stats. You are right, he has had big games, and led teams to championships. He has been Finals MVP and League MVP at least 3 times each. I got all that, but, I am saying Lebron can't shoot well from the outside, he has no go-to moves, and no killer instinct.

Like I said for a guy who has no killer instinct or go to moves he sure has a way of coming up big in big situations, while putting up big numbers... So I guess its safe to say that LeBron is >>>>killer instincts and go to moves, everyday of the week..

 

[julian]

There are 5 players that are clearly ahead of him all time..Magic,Jordan,Kareem,Wilt,Russell. Then there are 3 others that I grade higher Duncan,Kobe and Shaq. He would rank in the next level along with Bird,Big O,and Olajuwon. If he wins another 2 titles to get to 5 especially if he beats GS with Durant he moves into top 5.

 

[the13thround]

There are 5 players that are clearly ahead of him all time..Magic,Jordan,Kareem,Wilt,Russell.

I'm gonna assume here that even Magic admits that LeBron is ahead of him.
Because there's NO way he's removing Jordan, Kareem, Wilt, or Russell.

 

[RoadRage]

There are 5 players that are clearly ahead of him all time..Magic,Jordan,Kareem,Wilt,Russell. Then there are 3 others that I grade higher Duncan,Kobe and Shaq. He would rank in the next level along with Bird,Big O,and Olajuwon. If he wins another 2 titles to get to 5 especially if he beats GS with Durant he moves into top 5.

When you say clearly ahead of him you really need to sit down and compare Magic career with LeBron's and show me where you see the clearly part at..
When you use terms like clearly I expect to see him dominating in at least 3 major departments, more MVP's and more finals MVP's.... I'll sit back and wait for this one....

 

[RoadRage]

There are 5 players that are clearly ahead of him all time..Magic,Jordan,Kareem,Wilt,Russell. Then there are 3 others that I grade higher Duncan,Kobe and Shaq. He would rank in the next level along with Bird,Big O,and Olajuwon. If he wins another 2 titles to get to 5 especially if he beats GS with Durant he moves into top 5.

If you need an example of clearly better compare the numbers of LeBron and Kobe....

 

[RoadRage]

I'm gonna assume here that even Magic admits that LeBron is ahead of him.
Because there's NO way he's removing Jordan, Kareem, Wilt, or Russell.

Hate be the one who says this, but if LeBron was to play in the league during Wilt and Russell or the era that I call the WNBA (white non balling association) he would easily average 60 pts per game....

 

[BrownTurd]

Btw. @KingTaharqa has been on record having Jordan in his top 5 for a while. He's long called him the greatest SG in NBA history. I think he uses exaggeration to try to make points because Jordan gets a pass on a lot of things. I don't agree with his exaggerations, but I agree with some of his premises. Like KingT doesn't believe Pippen carried those squads.if he did.. he would never have jordan in his top five... what's his really saying is that Jordan had great players around him too when he won. It wasn't like they were winning Finals that they were supposed to lose. And regardless of whether he retired or not and was rusty has hell, Jordan fucked up against Orlando. But people act like it doesn't count... it's the equivalent of trying to give Curry a pass on a mythical knee injury. It's a consistency thing.

People act like that Orlando loss didn't count? MJ came back and went 72-10. So only fools would mention that Orlando loss.

 

[BrownTurd]

This also explains Birds low 3pg fga and 3pts made... But, fools will avoid the whole dynamic of 80s basketball in order to slant their bullshit argument.

For example, during Birds Career Average # of 3s attempted was 305, avg made 112
Since 2003: 3pt fga 568, made 244

Huge difference, so any career totals comparisons are skewed and bullshit because the 3 was not as much a part of the game as it is now...

So Road Rage arguing that Lebron was a better shooter than Larry Bird?

 

[tallblacknyc]

Please do not tell me or let anybody on this board know that you think that Lebron has a better jump shot than Bird....

Bird rebounded, shot way better, had better B Ball IQ, better free throw shooter, better passer (averaged the same amount of assist without being primary ball handler), and had way more killer instinct. Only lacked James athletism, but more skilled offensively.


Use a different example please.

damn... somebody came in here spitting that raw truth

 

[BrownTurd]

Oh. I listed it in another thread. Some of it isn't even his fault (the media). You should make a thread 'why don't you like Steph Curry". Remember, I was probably the first person who called him the greatest shooter of all-time....the non-media stuff is how a PG can have a negative assist to turnover ratio in the finals ...not a 2 for 1 which would be below average..or a 1 for 1... a negative assist to turnover ratio.. a starting PG has probably never done that in the finals, ever.. He's an able passer too.. he's just lazy kind of like Harden. Harden can play defensive he just doesn't care about it. A PG throwing behind the back passes out of bounds with a finals on the line or a PG throwing one-handed no look passes that become turnovers with the game on the line hurts my soul.

That's what I think Durant is going to lead the Warriors in scoring. Curry, if he truly wants to become a better player, is going to come back as a better distributor and not just a shooter.

That is their style of play. They don't make the correct basketball plays as they are in attack mode the entire game. The live and die with their style. They are like the Oregon Ducks of basketball by playimg at a frantic pace and not afraid to gamble.

 

[RoadRage]

damn... somebody came in here spitting that raw truth

If its the truth then why is it that LeBron has almost twice as many three pont shots made than Bird??
Edit...Over twice as many...

 

[RoadRage]

Got folks calling me a liar going to Google to try to prove me wrong..... Then they get quiet, for some reason...

 

[AllUniverse17]

I got Magic, Stockton, Jason Kidd, Mark Jackson, Nash, CP3, Oscar, etc... way ahead of him, he ain't no damn master passer, but a pretty good passer and pretty good vision. He doesn't have no killer scoring instincts, the only thing you can do with the ball is dribble, pass, or shoot. He only does one well, but he ain't no master.

LeBron is a better passer then all the guys just named except Magic Stockton and Kidd.

If he didnt do anything else BUT pass like Jackson or if that was his primary role on the team like Nash, he would have WAY more assists then he does. Same thing for Bird actually.

In LeBron's case he also has to lead his team in scoring as well.

What you said about dribble pass or shoot is also completely false. Have you ever played basketball? Is finishing at the rim a skill or isnt it?

 

[RoadRage]

LeBron is a better passer then all the guys just named except Magic Stockton and Kidd.

If he didnt do anything else BUT pass like Jackson or if that was his primary role on the team like Nash, he would have WAY more assists then he does.

In his case he also has to lead his team in scoring as well.

What you said about dribble pass or shoot is also completely false. Have you ever played basketball? Is finishing at the rim a skill or isnt it?

Those guys were better passers, but they were also pass first, pass 2nd then if all fails then shoot guys.. Many times LeBron had to be a shoot first guy, matter fact other than Oscar how many of those guys even came close to winning a scoring title...

 

[tallblacknyc]

Who is your top 5?

If you think LeBron didnt master vision and passing then i dont even know if you should be allowed to talk ball.

He is top 5 greatest distributors of all time. Thats a given for EVERYONE, even the worst haters.

If you meant strickly scoring skills, you dont consider finishing a skill???

whattttttttttttttt... do ya watch bball or juss fall for the hype..lebron has never led the league in assist or even average 10 a game..he's a dude that holds the ball a lot than passes it sometime..there's way better passers that played b4 him..dude mite not even reach the 10,000 assist mark even though he'll play way more games than all the dudes that have hit 10,000 assist

 

[BrownTurd]

Yep. Thats why I said for them to win he has to accept his new role. That's part of why Cleveland beat them, his game is not meant to be the #1 go to player. Very rarely is a primarily jump shooting player the #1 offensive option.

Everyone is talking about how Durant isn't a fit for GS, yeah, he isn't a fit for LAST YEARS GS team, but... He adds a new dimension to them offensively which will make them that much more of a problem if their star players can adapt to altering the offense to support what KD brings.

Throw Durant on last year's team and they win pretty easily.

Curry is a first option. You just can't have people like Barnes shoot 5 for 53.