Yeah i know that bruh. I was asking about Bird cause I really dont know.
I like the LeBron vs Bird comparison better because i feel they are closer in their legacies and because comparing across positions complicates things.
Where Does Lebron Rank All-Time For You As Of Today?
- Thread starter Better
- Start date
Yeah i know that bruh. I was asking about Bird cause I really dont know.
I like the LeBron vs Bird comparison better because i feel they are closer in their legacies and because comparing across positions complicates things.
Oh. I listed it in another thread. Some of it isn't even his fault (the media). You should make a thread 'why don't you like Steph Curry". Remember, I was probably the first person who called him the greatest shooter of all-time....the non-media stuff is how a PG can have a negative assist to turnover ratio in the finals
...not a 2 for 1 which would be below average..or a 1 for 1... a negative assist to turnover ratio.. a starting PG has probably never done that in the finals, ever.. He's an able passer too.. he's just lazy kind of like Harden. Harden can play defensive he just doesn't care about it. A PG throwing behind the back passes out of bounds with a finals on the line or a PG throwing one-handed no look passes that become turnovers with the game on the line hurts my soul.That's what I think Durant is going to lead the Warriors in scoring. Curry, if he truly wants to become a better player, is going to come back as a better distributor and not just a shooter.
they both are battling for that sf position if ur not including oscar in that convo.. i personally pick bird cause he's a killer that can do it on all corners of the floor offensively
Is it not easier to score in today's nba, then in previous nba?..let me answer yes..the rules change because players became less skilled and coaches adapted to this...
bird in todays game
if u thought dirk was a bad cac bird in todays game..like i said the media would drool for their cac that they could finally call god.. he averaged a double/double they'd literally throw that guy every mvp and would be like fuck his team he makes the league better..people don't realize bird was getting double digit rebs with 2 other players who was getting double digit rebs..that means he'd prob average more without them, plus score more pointsShow me an offensive formula that take hand checking into consideration...also show me one that puts these players in that formula and calculate what they would do..
Oscar was a PG.
I got James now at the SF spot. The defense, versatility and accomplishments put him over the top.
Exactly, alot of Dudes don't understand that hand checking basically stops alot of what's going on in the nba..not to mention that hard foul shit..and forechecking so on and so on..it's clearly easier to score in today's nba..the question is why did they need to change the rules in the first place..especially since today's nba player are better than other eras playersbird in todays game
The previous NBA was so skilled that they had to shorten the 3 point line.
lol i've heard people call oscar a pg, sg, and sf...the fact he could play all 3 depending on ur lineup.. i kno he usually played pg/sg though.. but magic/jordan gonna get them two slots so oscar mite have to play the 3
bird in todays game
What makes you think Bird wouldnt struggle with higher level of athleticism needed in today's game?
the so called best player in the game now dosen't even have a post game.. u'd prob wouldn't even start if u didn't have basic fundamentals back in the day
I didnt watch him. I always saw him listed as a PG though. At 6-5 he would be kinda short for SF but was a monster at PG.
so u think a shooter and post player would struggle in todays game..u do kno showtime lakers would prob run circles around majority of these teams now right.. do u realize how fast "air" jordan was not the 2nd 3 peat jordan i'm talking about the run and gun jordan b4 his first retirement..he's faster than 90+ percent of these dudes..bird was dropping 40 on human highlight film lot of these dudes ain't as athletic as dominique wilkins in 2days game
That was the 90s
It was masked in a win. Being on the winning teams absolves all.
I asked you a question about Bird. Not Jordan. Can you answer it? I cant believe you tried to slide MJ into your answer as if they even remotely close in terms of athleticism. They arent even in the same galaxy.
But lets use MJ and explore this further. When he came into the league he didnt have a consistent jumper yet. No 3pt shot to speak of. No post game. Yet he couldnt be stopped. How did he score all his points then?
The post game in today's NBA doesnt exist anymore. Do you know why specifically?
For the record, Bird if he played today would be a PF. He would be great of course. But it wouldnt be the same Bird we saw in the 80s.
Last edited:
That's not historically accurate. The easiest time to score in the NBA was in the 60s. For instance, Wilt averaged 50 points per game in the 61-62.
Your premise is false.
But let's accept your premiseIt'sts easier today than any period in history. Wouldn't that also make your Warriors the most over-rated offensive team in NBA history?
You can't have your cake and eat it too.
i mention those players cause that's who bird had to play..so if he kept up with them and did his thing less talent players who aren't hall of famers would be a piece of cake.. so who in todays game would stop bird from scoring at will or putting up 20+ a game???
only modern day fans would say warriors was the best team ever.. a bunch of us on this board said quite a few old school teams would beat them..hell that pippen saying bulls would sweep them was a perfect thread on explaing that
@Day_Carver is a Warriors' fan. I'm just asking him to be consistent. He said today's players are over-ranked offensively because it's so much easier to score.. actually he said the easiest era to score in. So given how the Warriors are called one of the greatest offensive teams of all time, are they over-rated.
I just want to see if he's going to be intellectually honest here. He can't have both of them.
I feel that the 70s and 80s players are more skilled players....
Bird didnt keep up with MJ. He never did.
Bird would be more of a spot up shooter now then he ever was. It wouldnt be the same Bird because the game changed.
I've never said they were or wasn't and let's not change the subject..my premise for talking about today's nba players and teams takes into account the rule changes..as with older eras...and it has been proven that nba had harder rules in 70s and 80s than they do now..that's not speculation nor is it subjective,it's a fact...now I'm still waiting on you to post that formula
Do you know why they removed hand checking?
We're not changing the topic. We're going to determine if you're consistently using points otherwise the argument is completely fallacious in nature.
In an era where you say scoring is its easiest, are the Warriors over-rated offensively?
You can't pick and choose when to use this argument. If you can't answer that, you just need to walk up out of this thread and admit you're just making a fallacious, emotional argument.
bird would score more.. if people like manu got burn than bird who is way better would shine.. hell bird in the warrior system would be scary.. wide open, hand in his face, or in the post larry gonna get his points plus more
I don't think you know what facts are. Show me where it's "proven" that the 70/80s had "harder" rules? Harder for whom?
What's ironic is that hand-checking was not even completely removed. You can still legally hand-check in various parts of the floor. Handchecking was eliminated from the end line in the backcourt to the opposite foul line. So you can legally handcheck in the paint. It wasn't until 2005 that even more handchecking violations were introduced but it still wasn't completely eliminated.
I'm not a warriors fan and I've never said they were the greatest at anything..I've said they are/were great and in this era I've never seen what they were doing but that's all mute..all my comments always take into account the rules..I'm a fan of basketball and anyone that's a fan can clearly see that bird had better offensive skills than lbj..I'm probably taking lbj because of his athleticism though
You saying you're not a warriors' fan is like @Excelsior saying he's not a Kobe fan. Your entire posting history says otherwise.
hey according to queen t the handchecking rule was removed to help jordan win rings and he wouldn't have won any rings if they never removed it.. yes he said that..funny thing the idiot didn't kno the rule came after jordan first 3 peat
This is a straw man. The argument has not been whether Lebron or Bird was more offensive-skilled. The argument is about who is the better player overall. There are two sides of the ball to account for (offense and defense).
There also is a difference between offensive skilled and scorer.
Lebron is without a doubt a better scorer. He averaged more per game and shoots a higher percentage and they play the same position.
What as the more skilled offensive player? Patrick Ewing or Shaq? It was clearly Ewing. Who was the better scorer? Clearly, it was Shaq and all the quantitative data shows that (scoring average/ fg percentage).
You're getting confused here.
Now when you also take into consideration there is another side of the ball: Defense. There is no argument. Lebron is a completely different category than Bird, defensively.
Now you want to make a subjective argument that you prefer a type of player like Bird on your squad. That's a different argument. I'm a huge fan of Bird and would love to have a hybrid small/power forward that could rebound like that and shoot the ball. That's a different argument.
Who is the better overall player though? Not an argument. Ask Bird right now and he'll tell you Lebron was the better player. As a matter of fact, I bet if you do a google search right now you'll find an article with Bird saying it himself and explaining why because I've heard him explain it already.
Bird is still great... likely still a top 10.. at the very end of the top 10 maybe.. but Lebron leading all teams in scoring, rebounding, assists, steals, and blocks pushed him and other players out of that top 5 for anyone that had another SF there.
Last edited:
By the second 3 peat, hand-checking wouldn't have made much of a different to Jordan because he had fully moved to the primary post player in the triple post offense. Hand-checking made it easier to get into the lane and drive. Jordan was primarily playing with his back to the basket at that point. He was doing it so much that Coach Karl (while at the Sonics) said Jordan was scared to drive and take physical punishment anymore. Hand-checking never changed the post game..it changed the perimeter game..Jordan wasnt primarily a perimeter player after the triple post was fully implemented in 1995. They started running it in 91 but supposedly Jordan fought against it the first 2 years and then retired.
