What is the Black Position on Illegal Immigration ???

[smoovetek]

First my brother learn your history. Way before it got to the point of selling a piece of mexico you had white people illegally immigrating all the way across the damn country. Forcing the mexicans out one by one. I don't know if know much about the Mexican American war but let me give you an example. You have a car I want your car but you won't sell it to me. When you ain't around I take your car. You try to get it back but I kick your ass. Since the police are hounding me I force you to sell me your car (even though I already have it) for little or nothing. That is how we got texas and california.

First of all Mexicans have no claim on this land north of the Rio Grande and across to San Francisco. That is being generous as Mexican history shows that the cultural and ethnic link to present day Mexicans is the Aztec or more properly the Nahua-speaking peoples in the Valley of Mexico, while the culture that dominated the area was a tribe of the Mexica called the Tenochca. Here is a map of there empire.

Here is a map of tribes in control of present day USA

The only right Mexico gained to the (still to this day) contested land is the fact that the Spaniards claimed it from the indigenous tribes.

The French and Spanish fought over this land, then the USA and Mexico.

To the victor goes the spoils.

So the correct analogy would be someone took the car, you fought him and took the car, someone fought you and made you sell the car to them. Whose car is it?

 

[Brown Pride]

First of all Mexicans have no claim on this land north of the Rio Grande and across to San Francisco. That is being generous as Mexican history shows that the cultural and ethnic link to present day Mexicans is the Aztec or more properly the Nahua-speaking peoples in the Valley of Mexico, while the culture that dominated the area was a tribe of the Mexica called the Tenochca. Here is a map of there empire.

Here is a map of tribes in control of present day USA

The only right Mexico gained to the (still to this day) contested land is the fact that the Spaniards claimed it from the indigenous tribes.

The French and Spanish fought over this land, then the USA and Mexico.

To the victor goes the spoils.

So the correct analogy would be someone took the car, you fought him and took the car, someone fought you and made you sell the car to them. Whose car is it?

So you backing all the crackkkas...............Not the people of color who were born on this continent,those victors brought yoor people over here as slaves and made you work for them for free.The people of color could(Blac & Brown) could take over this land and make the crackkka pay for all of his devilish beeds.But it seems you would rather kill us people of color for him and side with crackkkas............So are you still his slave and will do his killings????????/

 

[Temujin]

First of all an increased labor pool means increased competition. More competition cannot be seen as an aid to similarly situated black workers.

A business that could afford 10 below legal wage workers will not be able to magically afford that amount of legal wage earners.
Just because some of the formerly illegal workers become legal does not mean all will be. None of the current laws proposed offer amnesty to all illegals and that leaves millions of undocumented illegal aliens to carry on with current trends in the wage scale while rewarding millions of other law breakers.

I personally cannot see how increasing labor costs accross the nation for predominately small and medium business owners can help the economy. I could see the benefit if this increased cost was accross the board but its not but I'm not an economist break it down for us.
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Whenever you look at a macro-economic situation envolving labor you cannot just look at what these workers make you also have to look at what they spend. People have to buy food they have to have houses they have to transportation etc. When you have undocumented workers you limit their access to these things because of their status. They cannot consume at the rate normal Americans consume. Consumption is what drives our economy.
If you look at the Cato study you will find that immigrants create just as many jobs as they take. This is due in part to business creation (ie latino restaurants, latino bookstores, landscaping companies, the anaheim angels) as well as consumption.

The increase cost of documenting these workers will predominatly be felt by the upper class. The hit will be in increased prices for goods and services where illegal immigrants are prominent. These are not black owned businesses these are white owned large construction, landscaping, hotel and cleaning companies. I say this is great because you will have more dollars going into poor communities. The now documented workers will take their extra dollar an hour back to the bario and they will be able to invest in their own communites. They will have too because white and black society is ostracizing them. If black society opens its arms we can see those dollars.

Me personally over the past 4 months have hired latino workers in every location. Every one of my offices is bi-lingual. As we began accepting latino clients our business has scene significatn gains. I can only imagine if there were more documented clients our potential base would expand.

Bullshit. Very weak assumption. I'm from California. That argument does not hold up. California is predominately hispanic now and african americans are doing worse their than in any other state both economically and politically.
Hispanics in California do better than us there and do not align themselves with african americans other than on general party lines.
Appalachian whites are from a similar economic background to other poor people from other ethnic groups and there is no magical solidarity there either. Perhaps you would be correct if MLK and Cesar Chavez were running the show or had been around longer but they didnt and arent and you are dead wrong.

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First off because of the legal situation of latinos california may be predominatly latino in fact. However as far as documented voters they are not in the majority. In addition the latinos that are documented tend to be more of the (hispanic) variety.

Do the latinos in California not want healthcare. Do they not want better public school education? Schools that black and latino students attend.

Are they not poor? Do they not want better support services for their elderly?

To say that black and latino poor people do not have similar issues politically is crazy. We are both minorities in this country with similar issues. The fact that we have not as of yet come together on these issues is just as much our fault as it is theirs.

Show me one area in the US where the latino majority have teamed up with african americans to the benefit of african americans.

Bullshit

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Like I said the fact that we have not come together is just as much our fault as it is theirs. We definetly have similar issues with the American government and economy.

care to touch on this one?


Providing amnesty to millions of criminals while our people sit incarcerated for economic crimes as well is a slap in the face to all poor black people.

Poor blacks commit crimes and are punished. Poor hispanics commit crimes and are rewarded?

No other race has more right to enjoy the benefits of this nation than those who built it from the ground up and made it wealthy- African Americans. To grant the benefit of being a member of our nation to anyone with the ability to climb a fence is an afront to everything our people have contributed to this country. I may not like many of the people who control politics in this nation but I'll be damned if I sit idly by to see deceived people like you give away what my people and others bled for.

You justify the cowardess of millions of criminals who are too fearful to stay in their own nations and work for a better society.

Come on Dolemite. You remeber the Dawes act. You remeber all the brutally racist federal laws on the books. To violate a bullshit immigration system that allows canadians to freely migrate but puts quantity and financial restrictions on legal entry, yet tacitlly allows illegal entry is bullshit. There are many federal laws on the books not enforced. (Like the federal copyright laws YOU probably violate everyday). So when they come down and get your porn and music stash I want you smile as your going away in handcuffs because you are a big supporter of fully enforcing federal laws even the racists drug laws I assume.

 

[QueEx]

 

[Dolemite]

I have no porn stash and dont even frequent any part of bgol aside from this board

all the stuff u replied with is nice and all but its lacking the political evidence I asked for and your economic assessment is nice but also didnt address any of what I said.

Speak for yourself and the laws you violate. I spoke of economic crimes that our people suffer for and you bring up porn and music piracy?
that's weak

I await Brown Pride and yourself making threads about a planet without borders.

11 Million canadians arent swarming over the borders are they? Shit . I'd swarm over there for the fuckin healthcare.

I won't get any further into that "YOU probably violate" bullshit lol

if prison is good enough for poor blacks its good enough for mexicans

remind me again why this country shouldnt have borders or immigration policies(at least that are enforced) but the rest of the planet is exempt from that, including mexico

 

[Dolemite]

Providing amnesty to millions of criminals while our people sit incarcerated for economic crimes as well is a slap in the face to all poor black people.

Poor blacks commit crimes and are punished. Poor hispanics commit crimes and are rewarded?

No other race has more right to enjoy the benefits of this nation than those who built it from the ground up and made it wealthy- African Americans. To grant the benefit of being a member of our nation to anyone with the ability to climb a fence is an afront to everything our people have contributed to this country. I may not like many of the people who control politics in this nation but I'll be damned if I sit idly by to see deceived people like you give away what my people and others bled for.

You justify the cowardess of millions of criminals who are too fearful to stay in their own nations and work for a better society.

 

[Dolemite]

Show me one area in the US where the latino majority have teamed up with african americans to the benefit of african americans.

 

[Temujin]

Dude, why do you so often go left field on me. Any way, let me clear it up again.


What I meant was that the Government would not erect a fence around the access to "public Welfare" programs. I actually think a fence may be feasable, especially considering that where they are up, the importations have gone down. And I don't tie everything to welfare, just where it pops up. If you look at the amount of money spent in unreimbursed hospital care ion the SE, especially San Diego, you would see what I am talking about.
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If you read the Cato study which you still have not you would see that undocumented illegals put more into the public coffers then they take out. If you documented these workers then they would have access to healthcare and you would not have a unreimbursed hospital care problem. Lets think hear brother.

It is wrong because I did not ask permission of them to be in thier country, then I committed more crimes by fraudulently obtainig whtever I needed to work, then conspired with others to continue to break the law by securing employment, and evaded the efforts of the government to keep track of who comes into thier country. If I took your ring, and you knew it was gone, how long a period of time goes by that I can then say it is mine? The law of adverse possession only works when the sovreign allows. Period. The is no entitlement to something you did not supposed to have in the first place, no matter how long you fake it.

Adverse possesion only works when the sovreign allows? (that's a new legal theory I never heard of) But lets try to keep the property rights analogies out of a human rights argument they don't apply.

Back to the point. Our government does not care about illegal immigrants coming into this country because American companies and American citizens benefit from their labor. If this is not obvious to you, you need to ask yourself why don't we enforce immigration laws. Why do we consistently give them amnesty every 10 or so years. Because most people that study this understand the economic power of immigration. Your esteemed Cato institute understands it but I guess that's where you and the libertarian party part ways.

That assumes that you are only talking about unskilled labor. i am not. Many illegals are at least marinally skilled in some type of trade, for even picking fruit has a technique. What about the construction trades, and other marginally skilled manual laborers ?

In no economic analysis is picking fruit and construction considered skilled labor. Manual labor is considere unskilled labor. Skilled labor are jobs requiring training or significant experience.

As I explained earlier immigrants creat jobs. Both skilled and unskilled. Documented workers will create more jobs. Don't ya'll understand that is why bush is trying to do this now. He is trying to improve the economy.

Stop being hysterical (if possible). Of course I know that Indians were oppressed. But A: Prior to them having citizenship status, they were covered under treaties (which were often ignored, but not because they were Mexican) and B: They were oppressed because they were Indians, not because they were Mexican. An Iriquois from Long Island was treated the same way a Ute from Utah was treated, and for the same reason. I never said, nor inferred anything different. You and folks like Brown Pride do. So stop it. Come to think of it, I only stated that they were not expelled, that is all. You are the one that came from left field (again).

This is a perfect example of the PC bullshit I was talking about. Do just a little bit of research. The Incas, Toltecs, Olmecs, all had elaborate ceremonies around the slaughter of others. It is an irrefutable archeological fact. And how come you don't mention the Spanish in the "Stealing of America". Who do think the Americans went to war with?

What the hell do the spanish have to do with immigration in America?
Do some reasearch yourself. Did the incas live in New york. Did the Toltecs and olmecs live in florida or California.

I really don't get the point of this argument. Are you saying because the Incas practiced ritual sacrifice it was OK for the whiteman to steal the lands of the cheyenne. Do you see how racist you sound when you group different cultures to justify genocide. Just stop defending the whiteman you know what they did to the Indian people was wrong. Or maybe your uncle ruckus on this one and you think they did them a favor.

Such "Guns, Germs & Steel" bullshit. Did you know that the conquering of America was not always the one-sided aggression you and your ilk make it out to be. Many of Americas early settlements were attacked and destroyed by Indians (not that I blame them). This was a war, fair and square. Africans did it. The Indians themselves did it. To think that Indians were nothing but a bunch of pious hunter-gatherers dehumanizes them and denies thier full heritage. You are the one who is racist, not me.

Your right the whiteman was on point with the Dawes act. The attempt to assimilate and destroy the culture of the Indian people was perfectly legitimate. Every country in the world in the 1800's participated in germ warfare and cultural annihilation. I sure is glad the whiteman did the Indians that favor.

It's not like we created crime by saying what was once legal is now illegal. It has always been this way.

Did you have social studies in highschool or what. The people of a country elect representative who make laws. Laws determine what is legal and illegal. Yes things that were once illegal are now legal and vice versa.

The reason ferrying people became such big business is because of the last amnesty back in the 80's. and also, why not put pressure on Mexico to do better by thier citizens instead of making it oure problem. And if it wansn't economically beneficial to employers, they would not employ them, especially considering the risk they take in doing so. And by the way, "it's not fair" is a good arguement on it's own. You use it quite often in justifying abbhorent behavior among black people.

Uh duh. That's what I've been trying to tell you immigration is economically beneficial to employers and the America.

 

[Dolemite]

Me personally over the past 4 months have hired latino workers in every location. Every one of my offices is bi-lingual. As we began accepting latino clients our business has scene significatn gains. I can only imagine if there were more documented clients our potential base would expand.

interesting motivation

 

[Temujin]

I have no porn stash and dont even frequent any part of bgol aside from this board

all the stuff u replied with is nice and all but its lacking the political evidence I asked for and your economic assessment is nice but also didnt address any of what I said.

Speak for yourself and the laws you violate. I spoke of economic crimes that our people suffer for and you bring up porn and music piracy?
that's weak

I await Brown Pride and yourself making threads about a planet without borders.

11 Million canadians arent swarming over the borders are they? Shit . I'd swarm over there for the fuckin healthcare.

I won't get any further into that "YOU probably violate" bullshit lol

if prison is good enough for poor blacks its good enough for mexicans

remind me again why this country shouldnt have borders or immigration policies(at least that are enforced) but the rest of the planet is exempt from that, including mexico

Dolemite. The point was the history of this country is full of federal laws that need to be changed. To compare a victimless crime like violating immigration laws to violent crime or drug crimes is really overboard. You cannot group the body of federal crime into a bag and say lets enforce everything equally. Thats ridiculous.

 

[Dolemite]

If you read the Cato study which you still have not you would see that undocumented illegals put more into the public coffers then they take out. If you documented these workers then they would have access to healthcare and you would not have a unreimbursed hospital care problem. Lets think hear brother.

Cost of illegal immigration in California estimated at nearly $9 billion

By: EDWARD SIFUENTES - Staff Writer

California's nearly 3 million illegal immigrants cost taxpayers nearly $9 billion each year, according to a new report released last week by the Federation for American Immigration Reform, a Washington, D.C.-based group that promotes stricter immigration policies.

Educating the children of illegal immigrants is the largest cost, estimated at $7.7 billion each year, according to the report. Medical care for illegal immigrants and incarceration of those who have committed crimes are the next two largest expenses measured in the study, the author said.

Pro-immigrant groups and Latino researchers dispute the federation's findings, calling them biased and incomplete.

Jack Martin, who wrote the report, said Thursday that the $9 billion figure does not include other expenses that are difficult to measure, such as special English instruction, school lunch programs, and welfare benefits for American workers displaced by illegal immigrant workers.

"It's a bottom of the range number," Martin said.

The federation is one of the nation's leading lobbying groups aimed at curbing immigration into the country.

Authors of the report say it culls information from the U.S. Census and other studies addressing the cost of illegal immigration into the country to draw its conclusions.

Gerardo Gonzalez, director of Cal State San Marcos' National Latino Research Center, which compiles data on Latinos, criticized the report. He said it does not measure some of the contributions that immigrants make to the state's economy.

"Beyond taxes, these workers' production and spending contribute to California's economy, especially the agricultural sector," Gonzalez said.

Immigrants, both legal and illegal, are the backbone of the state's nearly $28 billion-a-year agricultural industry, Gonzalez and other researchers say.

More than two-thirds of the estimated 340,000 agriculture workers in California are noncitizens, most of whom are believed to be illegal immigrants, according to a 1998 study on farmworkers prepared for the state Legislature.

Local farmers say migrant farmworkers are critical to their businesses, and without them they would have to close their farms or move their operations overseas.

Martin disagrees. He said illegal immigrants displace American workers by taking low-skilled jobs, keep wages low by creating an overabundance of workers and stifle innovation by reducing the need for mechanized labor.

"The product of the illegal immigrant is not included (in the report) because if that is an essential product it will get done one way or another," Martin said. Employers "would have to pay better wages or invest money on mechanization."

Martin's study looks specifically at the costs of educating illegal immigrants' children, providing medical care to illegal immigrants and jailing those convicted of committing crimes. The report estimates the total cost at $10.5 billion each year, but that is offset by about $1.7 billion in taxes that illegal immigrants pay.

The study assumes that there are about 1 million children of illegal immigrant parents in California, or about 15 percent of the state's K-12 school enrolled population. The estimate is based on a 1994 study by the Urban Institute that concluded there were 307,000 illegal immigrant children enrolled in the state's public schools.

Martin also added an estimate of 597,000 U.S.-born children whose parents are illegal immigrants arriving at a total of 1,022,000 children. Multiplying the number of children by the estimated $7,577 the state spends on average per pupil, the study arrived at the $7.7 billion figure.

Including the number of U.S.-born children in the study is one of the reasons pro-immigrant groups said the study is biased.

"I think FAIR is without doubt an extremist organization that tries to portray itself as a mainstream group," said Christian Ramirez, director of the San Diego office of the American Friends Service Committee, an advocate group for legal and illegal immigrants.

The study's author defended the report, saying that the children were born in the United States as a result of their parents' illegal entry into the country.

"In no way does the report identify them as different kinds of citizens, because they would not have been born in the U.S. had their parents not come into the country illegally," Martin said.

To arrive at the cost of providing health care to illegal immigrants, the federation's study used an earlier 2000 analysis of health expenses paid by border counties that concluded the state spent $908 million on medical care for immigrants.

Martin said he adjusted the 2000 figure for increases in the population and inflation on the cost of providing health care and estimated that the state will spend about $1.4 billion in 2004.

The report also estimated that the state will spend another $1.4 billion to jail the 48,000 illegal immigrants in state prisons. California is compensated by the federal government to offset the cost of housing this population, but the federal payments were a fraction, about $111 million, of the total cost, Martin said.

To figure out the contributions that this immigrant population makes in taxes, the federation's study said it adjusted the Urban Institute's study estimates of $732 million for population increases and concluded that they contribute about $1.7 billion in sales, income and property taxes.

A similar study conducted by the Center for Immigration Studies in Washington, D.C., and released in August, said that illegal immigrants cost the federal government $10 billion more than they pay in taxes.

The federal government pays about $2.2 billion in medical treatment for uninsured immigrants, according to the report. It pays $1.9 billion in food assistance programs, such as food stamps and school lunches, for low-income families. And it pays $1.4 billion in aid to schools that educate illegal immigrant children.

Martin said states bear most of the cost of illegal immigration.

"State costs are much higher on a per capita basis because of the fact that the largest expenses are medical care and education and those are borne at the local level, not the federal," Martin said.

The federation's full report is at: www.fairus.org.

Contact staff writer Edward Sifuentes at (760) 740-5426 or esifuentes@nctimes.com.

 

[Temujin]

Providing amnesty to millions of criminals while our people sit incarcerated for economic crimes as well is a slap in the face to all poor black people.

Poor blacks commit crimes and are punished. Poor hispanics commit crimes and are rewarded?

No other race has more right to enjoy the benefits of this nation than those who built it from the ground up and made it wealthy- African Americans. To grant the benefit of being a member of our nation to anyone with the ability to climb a fence is an afront to everything our people have contributed to this country. I may not like many of the people who control politics in this nation but I'll be damned if I sit idly by to see deceived people like you give away what my people and others bled for.

You justify the cowardess of millions of criminals who are too fearful to stay in their own nations and work for a better society.

Too fearful. Are you serious. Does it not take courage to risk your life crossing the desert so that you can provide a better life for your children. If you could make 10times your salary in Canada and you are living in poverty you would not go? Come on man your telling starving people to eat cake.

What exactly are you talking about that is being given away. American citizenship. We are not talking about property hear. I didn't say give illegals a house. I said they are here. It is unfeasible to deport 3-12million people. It would be a economic disaster to do so. So what do we do? I say since they already participate in the economic system those that do let them stay let them be full members of society let them pay taxes, get healthcare and vote. Otherwise they are just slaves.

Lets deal with reason here.

 

[Dolemite]

Dolemite. The point was the history of this country is full of federal laws that need to be changed. To compare a victimless crime like violating immigration laws to violent crime or drug crimes is really overboard. You cannot group the body of federal crime into a bag and say lets enforce everything equally. Thats ridiculous.

fuck that- every child in an overcrowded class in texas and california is being victimized by that bullshit
every fuckin tax paying citizen in the USA is a victim of their crimes against this country

The only thing that makes mexicans any different from millions of chinese, africans and haitians is the fact they can hop a fuckin fence. Why do they deserve amnesty and to immigrate illegally while people worse off wait in line?

They have absolutely no right to be here. Remove the barriers for everyone without bias or deport every last one of them.
I have heard politicians go on about black immigrants not being wanted here- fuck that and fuck this attempt to pander to the latino vote in an election year- which is what this is really about

 

[Temujin]

Show me one area in the US where the latino majority have teamed up with african americans to the benefit of african americans.

http://www.gcyf.org/Annoucements/060318/GCYFRWJFNov05Rpt.pdf

This is right in your backyard. You might want to check it out it looks like they are doing good work.

In November, 2005, GCYF, with support from the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation(RWJF), convened the leadership of some of the nation’s largest and oldest African-American and Latino civic and fraternal organizations with grantmakers to explorecollaborative strategies to address the health needs of vulnerable populations.African-American and Latino civic organizations comprise a vast infrastructure thatmakes them essential partners in addressing the needs of vulnerable populations.
Many public and private funders concerned with the health and social needs ofminority communities have often relied disproportionately on faith-based organizations to reach these communities. In doing so, they may have missed opportunities to collaborate with and leverage the extensive national, state, and local networks of minority service organizations, such as the National Urban League, The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP), The ASPIRA Association, 100 Black Men of American, the National Council of La Raza, and numerous African-American and Latino fraternities and sororities across the United States.

 

[Dolemite]

Too fearful. Are you serious. Does it not take courage to risk your life crossing the desert so that you can provide a better life for your children. If you could make 10times your salary in Canada and you are living in poverty you would not go? Come on man your telling starving people to eat cake.

What exactly are you talking about that is being given away. American citizenship. We are not talking about property hear. I didn't say give illegals a house. I said they are here. It is unfeasible to deport 3-12million people. It would be a economic disaster to do so. So what do we do? I say since they already participate in the economic system those that do let them stay let them be full members of society let them pay taxes, get healthcare and vote. Otherwise they are just slaves.

Lets deal with reason here.

bullshit millions of m y people were transported to the Americas with primitive technology

so let these 11 million stay- and what about the ones who are crossing now? and the millions more tomorrow? why not make them legal too? your very same arguments still apply right?

 

[Temujin]

Cost of illegal immigration in California estimated at nearly $9 billion

By: EDWARD SIFUENTES - Staff Writer

Do you not realize that all these problems are caused by their status. They are caused because American companies benefit from their status. Do you not realize that if they were legal none of these things would be an issue.

 

[Dolemite]

http://www.gcyf.org/Annoucements/060318/GCYFRWJFNov05Rpt.pdf

This is right in your backyard. You might want to check it out it looks like they are doing good work.

In November, 2005, GCYF, with support from the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation(RWJF), convened the leadership of some of the nation’s largest and oldest African-American and Latino civic and fraternal organizations with grantmakers to explorecollaborative strategies to address the health needs of vulnerable populations.African-American and Latino civic organizations comprise a vast infrastructure thatmakes them essential partners in addressing the needs of vulnerable populations.
Many public and private funders concerned with the health and social needs ofminority communities have often relied disproportionately on faith-based organizations to reach these communities. In doing so, they may have missed opportunities to collaborate with and leverage the extensive national, state, and local networks of minority service organizations, such as the National Urban League, The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP), The ASPIRA Association, 100 Black Men of American, the National Council of La Raza, and numerous African-American and Latino fraternities and sororities across the United States.

wtf? are you fuckin serious? lmao stop it- that's not obscure and useless enough. I wanna hear about the afrotino lollipop convention

posting a fuckin pdf? cmon bruh

man i am all for people earning a living, sharing political responsiblility and all that but givin a pass to 11 million criminals is bullshit. There are hundreds of thousands of people who follow the rules who have been waiting for visas etc all over the world who deserve it more than those within walking distance who cheat.

 

[Dolemite]

Cost of illegal immigration in California estimated at nearly $9 billion

By: EDWARD SIFUENTES - Staff Writer

Do you not realize that all these problems are caused by their status. They are caused because American companies benefit from their status. Do you not realize that if they were legal none of these things would be an issue.

so you propose to make the whole world legal citizens of the US?
people who come here ILLEGALLY are illegal aliens - even if amnesty is given to the 11 million it wont seal the borders- and there will be more and more and more- then we can discuss the next 11 million in 4 more years

 

[Temujin]

bullshit millions of m y people were transported to the Americas with primitive technology

so let these 11 million stay- and what about the ones who are crossing now? and the millions more tomorrow? why not make them legal too? your very same arguments still apply right?

11 million people. If each one of these people just spent a dollar a day. You are talking about removing 11 million dollars a day from our economy. Brilliant.

I say reform the immigration laws. Lower the economic boundries. Do you know it costs thousands of dollars to become an American citizen? You will not have so many illegals. You will have legal immigrants looking for work. If they cannot find work or they are not working I definetly say deport them or do not allow them citizenship. But if they are working paying taxes and being good citizens we all benefit from that. How can we not.

 

[Temujin]

I'm glad you upgraded from one-liners to Gifs. Brilliant.

I hope this wasn't a personal attack because that would be a violation of rule #2 and you should now subject yourself to a one-week ban O moderate un-biased moderator.

 

[Dolemite]

11 million people. If each one of these people just spent a dollar a day. You are talking about removing 11 million dollars a day from our economy. Brilliant.

I say reform the immigration laws. Lower the economic boundries. Do you know it costs thousands of dollars to become an American citizen? You will not have so many illegals. You will have legal immigrants looking for work. If they cannot find work or they are not working I definetly say deport them or do not allow them citizenship. But if they are working paying taxes and being good citizens we all benefit from that. How can we not.

you are avoiding my questions


so let these 11 million stay- and what about the ones who are crossing now? and the millions more tomorrow? why not make them legal too? your very same arguments still apply right?




?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

we already read where you are benefiting from it personally bruh
11 million spent a day and 100million burned up by them exploiting resources they have never contributed toward
Brilliant

you still never said where it ends. Let me guess, with you having 100 more offices and a couple hundred million immigrant dollars in your bank account

u sound like a carpet bagger

so far you argue for totally open immigration in a world of finite space and resources

 

[QueEx]

If you throw a rock, the pig that squeals is the one it struck.

QueEx

 

[Fuckallyall]

To Temujin,

As usual, you obfuscated my responses by taking them out of the context of responding to your comments. Typical you, you cannot arue with the logic, so you go sideways. But, that is how emotional (not logical) people deal with situations. Find the way to manipulate the situation to make themselves happy, and blame others for any negative consequences.

But anyway, I now see where you all of a sudden libertarian leanings are coming from. I read that report you mentioned months ago, when it first came out. I have been a student of many of the teachings of the Cato institute for several years, and folks like you have been berating about it for just as long. I do not agree with thier stance this time, because they do not take in the full extent of the interactions the illegals have with the whole economy, IMO. For example, they do not take in the calculus of how much it costs to educate the children, provide healthcare for them, nor the cost of the criminal element amongst thhem. And there is a larger than average criminal element, because that is how they get rid of thier fugitives. But anyway, answer this question (don't just reply, but answer) by using your newfound libertarianism. How could expanding the supply not drive down prices ? In this case, the the supply is labor, and having a supply that is deficient, like illegal aliens with thier work status being a handicap for them, being even more of an impediment. And if blacks are part of that labor pool, how will they not be affected ?

 

[Greed]

Work Ethic, Not Latinos, Is Job Barrier

Work Ethic, Not Latinos, Is Job Barrier
By Courtland Milloy
Wednesday, April 12, 2006; B01

A young black man gets a job as a laborer on a construction site in downtown Washington. He is not mentally or physically prepared for the hard, dirty work ahead. Nor does he have a clue about the rewards of perseverance. So he wakes up the next morning, aching and demoralized. He shows up late for work and eventually stops showing up altogether.

Meanwhile, a vanload of Latinos pulls up to a job site. Only one speaks English and serves as a translator. They work as a team with near reckless abandon, hardly stopping for lunch. Before long, they are earning overtime pay.

I have seen these circumstances unfold and know construction site supervisors who have made similar observations. So I am skeptical of claims that "Latinos are taking jobs away from African Americans," which is a complaint that has resurfaced during the recent debate over restricting immigration.

Of course, there are African American successes in the construction trades. But there are troubling exceptions. For lack of even a rudimentary education and, more fundamentally, the absence of family and community support, far too many young black men are unable to compete for jobs.

If the same effort to stop illegal immigrants were being used to end, say, illiteracy, then more people might be able to understand that ignorance is the greatest threat to our national security. Stop the disproportionately high dropout rates among black high school students, and the odds of getting a job instead of going to jail improve.

"When we visit the homes of our employees, we find that Latino workers have much more family support, more intact families, than African Americans workers," said Myles Gladstone, vice president for human resources at Miller & Long Concrete Construction, the largest concrete contractor in the country. "When it comes to African American workers, retention is a huge problem, and part of the reason is a lack of support."

For the black guys I know who made it, family support helped them cope with work-related stress as well as the disdain for blue-collar work in their neighborhoods.

"The guys used to laugh at me when I came home from work all dirty," said Malcolm Jordan, 37, a master plumber and graduate of McKinley High in the District. "They had the cars, the clothes, the girls. Now, 20 years later, their fast money is gone, and many of them are, too. But I own a home. I have a car. If the guys today could see how I live, they'd have a totally different view of what it means to come home with dirty clothes on."

Last year, Jordan started a company, A.H. Jordan Plumbing, Heating and Mechanical, with his longtime friend Anthony Best, 39, also a master plumber and graduate of Coolidge High in the District.

"I knew from the start that becoming a plumber wasn't going to be easy," Best said. "There's a view that plumbing is a 'white man's trade,' and, sure enough, some people did try to make us quit. The black guys who began quitting early on in life ended up quitting every time. But those of us who were taught how to keep our eyes on the prize went on to become successful."

James A. Thrower, 35, a graduate of Banneker High in the District, served as an apprentice with Local 26 of the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers. He became the first African American to graduate as valedictorian from that program and now teaches electrical work to apprentices.

"If some of these guys could just learn to read, write and do basic math, and if they didn't mind getting their hands banged up every now and then, we'd pay them to go to school, give them a job and have them making a minimum of $65,000 in five years," Thrower said. "But, and it pains me to say this, some of them really don't want to work that hard."

But that's what it takes, along with commitment, sacrifice and perseverance -- the very qualities that the only group of people to arrive on these shores as slaves relied on for survival and success.

Focus on that, not Latinos, and we may well end up like Jordan and Best: creating jobs, not just looking for them.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/11/AR2006041101795.html

 

[smoovetek]

So you backing all the crackkkas...............Not the people of color who were born on this continent,those victors brought yoor people over here as slaves and made you work for them for free.The people of color could(Blac & Brown) could take over this land and make the crackkka pay for all of his devilish beeds.But it seems you would rather kill us people of color for him and side with crackkkas............So are you still his slave and will do his killings????????/

Hold up I am just stating facts. Now I'm the white man's bitch. I was born into this mess as was most latino americans. But to say mexicans have an inherit right to all of north america is wrong. Native Americans whose ancestors spilled blood on the land are the only ones entitled to that opinion.

And like previous people have said. When mexicans start standing up for african-americans is the day we will have unity. Mexican illegal immigrants have it easier here largely due to sweat blood and tears of the civil rights movement that included blacks, latinos, and whites. Until that type of co-op is forged things will not improve or be resolved.

And next time come back with a better reply than to call me a slave or tom. One side of my family immigrated from Turkey.


Illegals immigrants are the new era indentured servents (slaves) at the moment.

 

[Fuckallyall]

Re: Work Ethic, Not Latinos, Is Job Barrier

Work Ethic, Not Latinos, Is Job Barrier
By Courtland Milloy
Wednesday, April 12, 2006; B01

A young black man gets a job as a laborer on a construction site in downtown Washington. He is not mentally or physically prepared for the hard, dirty work ahead. Nor does he have a clue about the rewards of perseverance. So he wakes up the next morning, aching and demoralized. He shows up late for work and eventually stops showing up altogether.

Meanwhile, a vanload of Latinos pulls up to a job site. Only one speaks English and serves as a translator. They work as a team with near reckless abandon, hardly stopping for lunch. Before long, they are earning overtime pay.

I have seen these circumstances unfold and know construction site supervisors who have made similar observations. So I am skeptical of claims that "Latinos are taking jobs away from African Americans," which is a complaint that has resurfaced during the recent debate over restricting immigration.

Of course, there are African American successes in the construction trades. But there are troubling exceptions. For lack of even a rudimentary education and, more fundamentally, the absence of family and community support, far too many young black men are unable to compete for jobs.

If the same effort to stop illegal immigrants were being used to end, say, illiteracy, then more people might be able to understand that ignorance is the greatest threat to our national security. Stop the disproportionately high dropout rates among black high school students, and the odds of getting a job instead of going to jail improve.

"When we visit the homes of our employees, we find that Latino workers have much more family support, more intact families, than African Americans workers," said Myles Gladstone, vice president for human resources at Miller & Long Concrete Construction, the largest concrete contractor in the country. "When it comes to African American workers, retention is a huge problem, and part of the reason is a lack of support."

For the black guys I know who made it, family support helped them cope with work-related stress as well as the disdain for blue-collar work in their neighborhoods.

"The guys used to laugh at me when I came home from work all dirty," said Malcolm Jordan, 37, a master plumber and graduate of McKinley High in the District. "They had the cars, the clothes, the girls. Now, 20 years later, their fast money is gone, and many of them are, too. But I own a home. I have a car. If the guys today could see how I live, they'd have a totally different view of what it means to come home with dirty clothes on."

Last year, Jordan started a company, A.H. Jordan Plumbing, Heating and Mechanical, with his longtime friend Anthony Best, 39, also a master plumber and graduate of Coolidge High in the District.

"I knew from the start that becoming a plumber wasn't going to be easy," Best said. "There's a view that plumbing is a 'white man's trade,' and, sure enough, some people did try to make us quit. The black guys who began quitting early on in life ended up quitting every time. But those of us who were taught how to keep our eyes on the prize went on to become successful."

James A. Thrower, 35, a graduate of Banneker High in the District, served as an apprentice with Local 26 of the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers. He became the first African American to graduate as valedictorian from that program and now teaches electrical work to apprentices.

"If some of these guys could just learn to read, write and do basic math, and if they didn't mind getting their hands banged up every now and then, we'd pay them to go to school, give them a job and have them making a minimum of $65,000 in five years," Thrower said. "But, and it pains me to say this, some of them really don't want to work that hard."

But that's what it takes, along with commitment, sacrifice and perseverance -- the very qualities that the only group of people to arrive on these shores as slaves relied on for survival and success.

Focus on that, not Latinos, and we may well end up like Jordan and Best: creating jobs, not just looking for them.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/11/AR2006041101795.html

This shit is real. FYI, Anthony Best finished my basement and some other improvements. But my point is that the sheer volume and uncontrolled access makes for a dangerous situation. Also, many of the Mexicans that come here are not here with thier families either, but they manage. IMO, this is another result of the etermal victimization of black people. As long as your a victim, you feel that you have no control or responsibility over life.

 

[VegasGuy]

why should hispanic federal law breakers get a pass? FUCK THEM
ARREST THEM ALL AND HAVE THEM WORK AS PRISONERS THEN DEPORT THEM ALL

Please tell me again why they have the right to break federal laws while a tax paying citizen like me doesn't.


I know there are many illegal immigrants of african descent but they are a mere fraction of the latinos and they can get the same incarceration and deportation.

Mexicans have no special rights to enter this nation or evade its laws. Was Georgia won in the Mexican American war? There are plenty of illegals here do they have these special rights some of you speak of?


Enslave all illegal aliens. I bet them muthafuckas flood back accross the border.

What I don't get is millions march in the streets carrying Mexican flags for equal rights. What the fuck is that? Why can't those same millions march in the streets of Mexico screaming the fuck at the Fox administration for rights and shit? Why is it happening here.

And fuck all the talk of historical shit. These peeps broke the law and the people who live here are wondering why politicians are pissing on those Mexicans and other immigrants trying to do it the right way.

I don't know who told them that all they have to do is to box up a few bushels of corn and you automatically become a citizen. Not how the law reads and all this other shit is trying to steer the debate from breaking immigration laws to some bullshit rights that don't exist. The last time I checked, RIGHTS are bestowed on those who are citizens of this country by the constitution. We don't extend those rights to non-citizens abroad and we don't do it here either.

-VG

 

[Disanddat]

First my brother learn your history. Way before it got to the point of selling a piece of mexico you had white people illegally immigrating all the way across the damn country. Forcing the mexicans out one by one. I don't know if know much about the Mexican American war but let me give you an example. You have a car I want your car but you won't sell it to me. When you ain't around I take your car. You try to get it back but I kick your ass. Since the police are hounding me I force you to sell me your car (even though I already have it) for little or nothing. That is how we got texas and california.

Secondly
When you base your opinion on an entire race of people on what you see in one alley in long beach what you are doing is called STEREOTYPING. It is a technique often used by WHITE PEOPLE to justify their racist treatment of black people.

So your stereotypical racist comments about latinos are disrespectful to them as well as yourself since as a victim of racism you should be aware of the irony of your own racism.

Cosign. I hate when we as black people do that shit. I am he can also find Black kids doing the same , white kids doing the same. The fact of the matter is people are fucked up regardless of race. Sad to say the majority of people in the world regardless of race are insecure idiots. But when we see someone acting dumb you can either see them as an individual or let their race be the first thing you see.

 

[Dolemite]

What I don't get is millions march in the streets carrying Mexican flags for equal rights. What the fuck is that? Why can't those same millions march in the streets of Mexico screaming the fuck at the Fox administration for rights and shit? Why is it happening here.

And fuck all the talk of historical shit. These peeps broke the law and the people who live here are wondering why politicians are pissing on those Mexicans and other immigrants trying to do it the right way.

I don't know who told them that all they have to do is to box up a few bushels of corn and you automatically become a citizen. Not how the law reads and all this other shit is trying to steer the debate from breaking immigration laws to some bullshit rights that don't exist. The last time I checked, RIGHTS are bestowed on those who are citizens of this country by the constitution. We don't extend those rights to non-citizens abroad and we don't do it here either.

-VG

Basically its total bullshit. This whole issue is an effort to win political support from the latino community in an election year. Some people love being "liberal" more than they love their own. Eroding the African American political and economic position with a surge of 11 million hispanics could never be in our best interests unless we are interested in being further marginalized.

Will history show a Congressional Hispanic Congress in allegiance to the CBC and black people? I say hell no.

Anyone who has grown up in areas heavily populated by Mexicans can tell you that although they may have some friendships, they aren't employed by them and aren't embraced by them.

I wish that shit wasn't the way it is between hispanics from Mexico and African Americans but pretending the shit is sweet is sellout business. I question the allegiance of any black person willing to subjugate his own people to the will of millions of criminals and the repercussions of that subjugation. These people can only be viewed as the worst sort of Uncle Toms and delusional hippie assholes. I doubt a single solitary one of them has a child in the LAUSD scared to go to school on the 5th of May and constantly engaging in race riots.

 

[Disanddat]

not into the racist stuff but yes the point has to be taken that the Latino organizations don't care for Black people. Well at least the Cubans I never see them protesting for rights for Hatians to immigrate. Things are worse both politically and economically in Hati than in Cuba.

I hope one day we will have our shit together that when we see some wrong done against black people we will have the power to do something about it. And it my be unrelated but it might show how the Cuban organizations are.....They actually protested asgainst Nelson Mandela!!! why? ...because he was friends with Castro...this means they think him being friends with Castro outweighs his accomplishments with the ANC's liberation of South Africa.

 

[Blkvoz]

The border between Mexico and the US is 1951 miles long. The Border between Canada and the US is 5521 miles long. We haven’t even talked about the Tidal Shoreline which by the way is over 88,000 miles long. For those that advocate the closing of the border, Lou Dobbs not withstanding. Just how do we go about shutting the door to our country?

Most of the immigrants to this country come here for two primary reasons, political and economical. Over half of the Mexicans here are here because they can find work easier paying higher wages, than they can find in their country.

Fox is right when he says that the Mexicans will take jobs at wages that even a Black man will not accept. We can justifiably become outraged at the obvious implications of such a statement, but I am more outraged by the fact that, the statement is true. Not because of any lack of self determination on our part, but rather as a result of the racist social system in this country, which brands us second class citizens.

It is also true, because I don’t see any Black folks, myself included standing in line to pick fruit, and vegetables, twelve hours a day for less than minimum wages. Not one person on this board is down with that BS.

If the government truly wanted to control the influx of migratory farm workers, they could just monitor each farm, count the number of workers on each farm, make sure every worker picking up a paycheck is paying taxes, social security etc, plus maybe a surtax for working here which would offset the cost of checking on them. Anyone deemed unfit for whatever reason cannot sign up for a paycheck, and if an employer does hire any undocumented worker, lay a fine on that ass equal to a days profit or more. Now you have some control.

Big business and the government is not going to place any real effort in stopping the workers that help put food on our tables by doing the job none of us will even think about. Now if they were paying 100 K a year, I guess some of us here might be interested, not me.

Face it, it’s all about the Benjamin’s. Someone here said something about the Mexicans going back home and forcing their government to improve the economy. They would have the same success there, we have had in this country.

We have a 58% increase in the cost of fuel, a 38% increase in health care, etc. on down the line, paid for by a 2% reduction in wages, all in the last two years. By comparison we are living large, while slowly starving to death.

What disturbs me the most are some of the hateful remarks directed at our Brown Brothers, some of us have become a racist tool of the system, we hate on others for stupid reasons, which only serves to keep us Black folks in the lowly place made for us by our oppressors.

One Brother said, we can get more done by cooperating with one another, than we ever will by hating on one another. True Dat

 

[QueEx]

The border between Mexico and the US is 1951 miles long. The Border between Canada and the US is 5521 miles long. We haven’t even talked about the Tidal Shoreline which by the way is over 88,000 miles long. For those that advocate the closing of the border, Lou Dobbs not withstanding. Just how do we go about shutting the door to our country?

You make a great point, we have so much border and reasonably securing the borders sounds daunting. Does that mean, however, that because of the enormity of the task, it should not be done? In other words, should there be no attempt to control the borders? If no, I understand your point, On the other hand, if you believe there should be control of the borders, to what extent? - and, more importantly, should there be any criteria for entering this country?

Most of the immigrants to this country come here for two primary reasons, political and economical. Over half of the Mexicans here are here because they can find work easier paying higher wages, than they can find in their country.

Does that mean that we should provide employment for the world? Maybe I read the unemployment figures wrong, but it doesn't appear to me that there exist a job for every willing American. Who has the priority of any available job, citizens of this country -- or anyone who can gain entry, whether legal or not?

Fox is right when he says that the Mexicans will take jobs at wages that even a Black man will not accept. We can justifiably become outraged at the obvious implications of such a statement, but I am more outraged by the fact that, the statement is true. Not because of any lack of self determination on our part, but rather as a result of the racist social system in this country, which brands us second class citizens.

It is also true, because I don’t see any Black folks, myself included standing in line to pick fruit, and vegetables, twelve hours a day for less than minimum wages. Not one person on this board is down with that BS.

If the government truly wanted to control the influx of migratory farm workers, they could just monitor each farm, count the number of workers on each farm, make sure every worker picking up a paycheck is paying taxes, social security etc, plus maybe a surtax for working here which would offset the cost of checking on them. Anyone deemed unfit for whatever reason cannot sign up for a paycheck, and if an employer does hire any undocumented worker, lay a fine on that ass equal to a days profit or more. Now you have some control.

Big business and the government is not going to place any real effort in stopping the workers that help put food on our tables by doing the job none of us will even think about. Now if they were paying 100 K a year, I guess some of us here might be interested, not me.

I agree with you that business has no interest in stopping <u>anything</u> that adds to its bottom line. Likewise, the government, better still, our representatives that make-up the government, appear to be embroiled in political gamesmanship over the outcome of elections.

None of those reasons, however, have anything to do with whats in the best interest of this country and whats in the best interest for my family. Simply because both are acting in their parochial self interest doesn't change whats in the nation's best interest. I'm concerned about the latter.

If your surtax/surcharage and penalty idea was put into place and enforced, I probably wouldn't have much of a problem with it. It doesn't appear to grant wholesale citizenship, it might have some impact on border-flood, and, if I understand it correctly, it doesn't ignore the notion that there should be control over the border. On the other hand, if it doesn't mean control over the border and it means granting citizenship to anyone who is able to find a whole in a fence, I disagree. In my humble opinion, extending rights, liberties, privileges and immunities must have some greater underpinning than mere presence. Moreover, thats what the current law is and if we are going to change that, we need to amend the Constitution -- which requires a conscious decision to do so -- not the quasi-common law approach some seem to advocate.

Face it, it’s all about the Benjamin’s. Someone here said something about the Mexicans going back home and forcing their government to improve the economy. They would have the same success there, we have had in this country.

Excuse me, but a lot of people appear to be overlooking a lot of things. Illegal aliens have rights and <u>responsibilities</u> in their native countries. They don't have those rights and responsibilities here and those rights and responsibilities are <u>never</u> to be compared with the Civil Rights struggle. Not that this applies to you, but I keep getting the feeling that many who argue as you do seem to take the position that any poke in whitey's eyes is alright with them. And, before someone cries whitey lover, let me say that I haven't forgotten a damn thang. But I'm not willing to align my rights, etc., with someone just to poke whitey in the eye while at the same time (knowingly or unknowingly) dilute my own position in the process. Dilution, however, in my opinion is exactly whats in the offing. I have to join with those posters who, like me, don't see the "identity of interest" of Black and Mexican voters. I love my fellow man alright, but this is politics.

We have a 58% increase in the cost of fuel, a 38% increase in health care, etc. on down the line, paid for by a 2% reduction in wages, all in the last two years. By comparison we are living large, while slowly starving to death.

All the more reason to consider the options, isn't it?

What disturbs me the most are some of the hateful remarks directed at our Brown Brothers, some of us have become a racist tool of the system, we hate on others for stupid reasons, which only serves to keep us Black folks in the lowly place made for us by our oppressors.

One Brother said, we can get more done by cooperating with one another, than we ever will by hating on one another. True Dat.

I agree with you, we shouldn't be hateful towards Mexicans and Mexicans shouldn't be hateful towards us. I think you might call that the commutative property of race or ethinic relations. But, as I said above, this ain't about love, its politics. Herbert Lasswell defines politics as: who gets what, when and how. In that regard, I'm not willing to cede our political strength to accomodate illegal immigrants, who haven't demonstrated that they have "Our" political interest at heart.

QueEx

 

[Dolemite]

not into the racist stuff but yes the point has to be taken that the Latino organizations don't care for Black people. Well at least the Cubans I never see them protesting for rights for Hatians to immigrate. Things are worse both politically and economically in Hati than in Cuba.

I hope one day we will have our shit together that when we see some wrong done against black people we will have the power to do something about it. And it my be unrelated but it might show how the Cuban organizations are.....They actually protested asgainst Nelson Mandela!!! why? ...because he was friends with Castro...this means they think him being friends with Castro outweighs his accomplishments with the ANC's liberation of South Africa.

those white formerly landowning cuban exiles aren't the same as cubans in cuba who tend to have darker skin
Puerto Ricans also generally align themselves with African Americans for the most part and have a deep hatred for mexicans

But your point about hispanics not necessarily aligning themselves with blacks is true. If a dark skinned brother attempted to date a cuban exile's daughter or a mexican chick you might see some serious discontent. I have noticed that most mexicans who just moved here are not as quick to hate black people as the indoctrinated 2nd generation + mexicans with more spaniard blood

 

[VegasGuy]

Fox is right when he says that the Mexicans will take jobs at wages that even a Black man will not accept. We can justifiably become outraged at the obvious implications of such a statement, but I am more outraged by the fact that, the statement is true. Not because of any lack of self determination on our part, but rather as a result of the racist social system in this country, which brands us second class citizens.

Fox can kiss my ass. Why doesn't he put those same countrymen of his to work for less wages in his own damn country? Largely because ke knows his people WON'T do shit for less money. He won't because he is full of shit and pimping out his people to send money back to prop up his fucked up administration.

Him and Bush can kiss my black ass on that one.

How many brothers you know won't do construction jobs? How many brothers you know won't build bridges or homes or any number of labor intensive jobs if the pay is good? That is where companies in america is putting mexicans to work and therefore squeezing out those in america who would and USED TO do all that type work. So Fox can kiss my ass with that. The jobs americans typically won't do have to do with working in the fields and shit. But that isn't where many are showing up.

-VG

 

[Dolemite]

So sad that "even" brothers don't understand what Vicente the Fox means when he talks about "even blacks".

Anyone who thinks that the jobs those 11 million people have are all as migrant fruit pickers is a complete imbecile.

Ask the roofers, plumbers, painters and other contruction personnel who used to reside in New Orleans what the illegal mexicans in NO are doing and how much they are making.

Why is it people assert that Mexicans in Mexico are as politically weak as African Americans here? Do you people read? I do and I just discovered Mexico is actually run by, get this, Mexicans. I was shocked.


We black people have a long history of trying to cooperate with those who view us as

..........and lets just say it hasn't worked out well