s Vitali Klitschko one of the Greatest?

[TJervey]

Calzaghe... Hatton... Gatti... Green... the trend seems to be to overrate these guys, but hey, why would the truth matter.

The one thing that annoys me is, if these guys aren't constantly fighting on American TV against American 'name' fighters, they are overrated!?!?!? The issue with them is the era, but, taking away who they fought, their skillset would damn sure give a Holmes, Ali, Foreman, etc. trouble. Would they beat any of them, I can't say they would or wouldn't, but to discredit them because of their race, location or era is foolish!!

As far as the list you mentioned, Calzaghe was definitely IMO not overrated, he was a very talented fighter. Is issue was, he was unwilling to come to the states to fight for all those years, and IMO why the hell should he have had too? He was the champion, had built himself to a position to make millions of dollars to fight at home, so who the hell needed a Roy Jones then? And, we are STILL acknowledging how great B Hop is, and he is definitely one of the greatest fighters of this or any era, but... if I'm not mistaken, Calzaghe beat him?!?!?!? So how can he be deemed overrated!?!?!?

The bias we have for stateside fighters is laughable... Would I make him or his brother Top 10? Quite possibly because one, I've been able to see them, and analyzing them against fighters from an era I didn't experience is taking someone elses opinion and making it law, and 2. I sincerely believe their understanding of their strengths, and how to use them is what makes them such great fighters! They have not fallen into the trap of a lot of fighters, especially those who give in to the pressure of the American public opinion to be more ''exciting' or 'marketable' only to have it shorten their shelf life is what has also added to their longevity as fighters...

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

The one thing that annoys me is, if these guys aren't constantly fighting on American TV against American 'name' fighters, they are overrated!?!?!? The issue with them is the era, but, taking away who they fought, their skillset would damn sure give a Holmes, Ali, Foreman, etc. trouble. Would they beat any of them, I can't say they would or wouldn't, but to discredit them because of their race, location or era is foolish!!

As far as the list you mentioned, Calzaghe was definitely IMO not overrated, he was a very talented fighter. Is issue was, he was unwilling to come to the states to fight for all those years, and IMO why the hell should he have had too? He was the champion, had built himself to a position to make millions of dollars to fight at home, so who the hell needed a Roy Jones then? And, we are STILL acknowledging how great B Hop is, and he is definitely one of the greatest fighters of this or any era, but... if I'm not mistaken, Calzaghe beat him?!?!?!? So how can he be deemed overrated!?!?!?

The bias we have for stateside fighters is laughable... Would I make him or his brother Top 10? Quite possibly because one, I've been able to see them, and analyzing them against fighters from an era I didn't experience is taking someone elses opinion and making it law, and 2. I sincerely believe their understanding of their strengths, and how to use them is what makes them such great fighters! They have not fallen into the trap of a lot of fighters, especially those who give in to the pressure of the American public opinion to be more ''exciting' or 'marketable' only to have it shorten their shelf life is what has also added to their longevity as fighters...

I agree. Hatton at 140 wasn't overrated. Joe was exactly the type of fighter we see in Sergio. The list goes on.

 

[Alaskanredman]

As far as the list you mentioned, Calzaghe was definitely IMO not overrated, he was a very talented fighter. Is issue was, he was unwilling to come to the states to fight for all those years, and IMO why the hell should he have had too? He was the champion, had built himself to a position to make millions of dollars to fight at home, so who the hell needed a Roy Jones then? And, we are STILL acknowledging how great B Hop is, and he is definitely one of the greatest fighters of this or any era, but... if I'm not mistaken, Calzaghe beat him?!?!?!? So how can he be deemed overrated!?!?!?

Calzaghe got B Hop past his prime. Shit, he was already past his original retirement goals many times over. The thing that is and was amazing about B Hop is that he is beating the odds and still giving people the fight of their lives or beating them. Shit by the time Calzaghe got him, you couldn't even get real points for beating B Hop... You were supposed to beat him it's just that B Hop will always make guys look bad because his fight game is based on skill and not natural talent, but the fight happen back when Hopkins was quicker on the draw in his prime and we would have seen a different fight IMO. Calzaghe got a lot of biggest fights from guys that were on the decline. The only real negative you hear about him is his fighting style and the fact that he has had wars with his lesser skilled opponents, but they don't pick apart his opponents/record like they should. Even you don't agree with me, Jermain Taylor has two wins over B Hop and he isn't shit so why does Calzaghe deserve credit for a victory after that...

 

[Alaskanredman]

I agree. Hatton at 140 wasn't overrated. Joe was exactly the type of fighter we see in Sergio. The list goes on.

People seriously thought he could beat Floyd... We might have known better, but there were plenty of people who thought Hatton's pressure attack would do the trick. He had no business against any elite fighter regardless of weight. 140 wasn't popping like it is now, I doubt he could get past any of these guys at 140 now.

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

Calzaghe got B Hop past his prime. Shit, he was already past his original retirement goals many times over. The thing that is and was amazing about B Hop is that he is beating the odds and still giving people the fight of their lives or beating them. Shit by the time Calzaghe got him, you couldn't even get real points for beating B Hop... You were supposed to beat him it's just that B Hop will always make guys look bad because his fight game is based on skill and not natural talent, but the fight happen back when Hopkins was quicker on the draw in his prime and we would have seen a different fight IMO. Calzaghe got a lot of biggest fights from guys that were on the decline. The only real negative you hear about him is his fighting style and the fact that he has had wars with his lesser skilled opponents, but they don't pick apart his opponents/record like they should. Even you don't agree with me, Jermain Taylor has two wins over B Hop and he isn't shit so why does Calzaghe deserve credit for a victory after that...

If Bhop went on a five fight losingstreak I can see why you wouldn't give him credit. But he currently is like number 3 or 4 in the world. He deserves credit for fighting bhop and winning. It is that simple.

People seriously thought he could beat Floyd... We might have known better, but there were plenty of people who thought Hatton's pressure attack would do the trick. He had no business against any elite fighter regardless of weight. 140 wasn't popping like it is now, I doubt he could get past any of these guys at 140 now.

Once again saying he wouldnt get past this crop of 140 pounders is pointless. Because this in no way can be proven. PBF fought ricky at a weight class everyone saw ricky was not effective at. How you going to give pbf credit for beating a guy in a weight class he stunk at, but give no credit to joe for beating a fighter that is in the top 5 pound for pound list right now?

 

[merce77]

I agree. Hatton at 140 wasn't overrated. Joe was exactly the type of fighter we see in Sergio. The list goes on.

Yes because Sergio pitty pats his opponents to death.


They couldn't be more different.

 

[merce77]

And if Calzaghe didn't need Roy Jones in his prime, why did he fight him past his prime. And he still got dropped by both B-Hop and Roy early on, imagine had they been young. Joe won the Hopkins fight but didn't really beat him. This was before Hopkins changed his style to be more offensive. If ya'll remember Hopkins only used to do enough to beat guys, he's a different fighter now. And Joe would have gotten KO'd quickly by a young Roy. Joe was totally overrated imo. I can't imagine him winning the tourney against guys like Ward or Froch or even Bute, he'd have had serious problems. He built a niche in his hometown and was making millions, fine. But why wait all those years to finally come to the states when all your rivals are already past it?

 

[P03t]

Yes because Sergio pitty pats his opponents to death.


They couldn't be more different.

cats don't know what they are talking about...an elite Counter puncher like Sergio is similar to a 2 hand slapping Calzaghe?......

 

[Alaskanredman]

If Bhop went on a five fight losingstreak I can see why you wouldn't give him credit. But he currently is like number 3 or 4 in the world. He deserves credit for fighting bhop and winning. It is that simple.

B Hop beats guys who have serious flaws by taking advantage of the flaw. Which is why he is careful in who he fights. I don't blame him or take anything away from him cause he is over the hill and what he does is still amazing. Put him in there with guys with little to no flaws and we might not see a great or good performance. Either way, Calzaghe can have the same credit that I give to Jermain Taylor. Also last I checked have one guy that was still good past his prime on your record isn't anything to jumping up with joy about cause that is the thing that is just supposed to take a prospect to that next level... not define a fighters career.

Once again saying he wouldnt get past this crop of 140 pounders is pointless. Because this in no way can be proven. PBF fought ricky at a weight class everyone saw ricky was not effective at. How you going to give pbf credit for beating a guy in a weight class he stunk at, but give no credit to joe for beating a fighter that is in the top 5 pound for pound list right now?

Ricky wasn't effective cause he wasn't good. He never fought and won against an elite guy beyond Tszyu. Collazo is C+ maybe B level fighter and he didn't over power Hatton nor did Hatton look sluggish... Hatton was just out boxed and given a gift in the end.

 

[Alaskanredman]

And if Calzaghe didn't need Roy Jones in his prime, why did he fight him past his prime. And he still got dropped by both B-Hop and Roy early on, imagine had they been young. Joe won the Hopkins fight but didn't really beat him. This was before Hopkins changed his style to be more offensive. If ya'll remember Hopkins only used to do enough to beat guys, he's a different fighter now. And Joe would have gotten KO'd quickly by a young Roy. Joe was totally overrated imo. I can't imagine him winning the tourney against guys like Ward or Froch or even Bute, he'd have had serious problems. He built a niche in his hometown and was making millions, fine. But why wait all those years to finally come to the states when all your rivals are already past it?

This too...

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

I'm not going to argue with the crew. Joe had 32 career Knockouts out of his 46 wins. That's a KO% 69.57. You guys are funny.

 

[Alaskanredman]

Joe had 32 career Knockouts out of his 46 wins. That's a KO% 69.57. You guys are funny.

I get it, who a boxer fought only matters some times.... others can just have wins.

 

[merce77]

I get it, who a boxer fought only matters some times.... others can just have wins.

 

[merce77]

I'm not going to argue with the crew. Joe had 32 career Knockouts out of his 46 wins. That's a KO% 69.57. You guys are funny.

That "crew" shit is getting old. Anytime you find yourself backed into a corner now, you turn it into some ole we're ganging up on you bullshit. Has it even occurred to you that you might be wrong? Btw, ALL of Joe's ko's came against no name fighters he was supposed to do that to.

 

[Alaskanredman]

That "crew" shit is getting old. Anytime you find yourself backed into a corner now, you turn it into some ole we're ganging up on you bullshit. Has it even occurred to you that you might be wrong?

How could that be...

He loves to avoid any serious questions about his statements.

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

That "crew" shit is getting old. Anytime you find yourself backed into a corner now, you turn it into some ole we're ganging up on you bullshit. Has it even occurred to you that you might be wrong? Btw, ALL of Joe's ko's came against no name fighters he was supposed to do that to.

1) I care that you think the "crew" shit gets old.
2) Knockout is still a knockout whether you like it or not.

I never said you were ganging up on me. If you don't get what a circle jerk is then I understand why it went over your head. It is exactly what yall do. It is fitting. Give me some credit. I stop calling yall the circle jerk crew and now just say the crew.

 

[merce77]

1) I care that you think the "crew" shit gets old.
2) Knockout is still a knockout whether you like it or not.

I never said you were ganging up on me. If you don't get what a circle jerk is then I understand why it went over your head. It is exactly what yall do. It is fitting. Give me some credit. I stop calling yall the circle jerk crew and now just say the crew.

A knockout against a no name fighter and a knockout against Manny Pacquiao or Floyd are the same thing then right? I'm just saying because you love to go in on certain fighters and how you judge greatness based on who they've beaten......and again, and some of us not agreeing with you means we're circle jerking? You create new boxing posts daily and you obviously make these threads for a reason since it's the same heads over and over again in your threads, the same "crew", why do it then if we're just going to "crew" up and shit on your "analysis".

 

[merce77]

How could that be...

He loves to avoid any serious questions about his statements.

Dude is probably Blunt to tell the you the truth.

 

[TJervey]

Calzaghe got B Hop past his prime. Shit, he was already past his original retirement goals many times over. The thing that is and was amazing about B Hop is that he is beating the odds and still giving people the fight of their lives or beating them. Shit by the time Calzaghe got him, you couldn't even get real points for beating B Hop... You were supposed to beat him it's just that B Hop will always make guys look bad because his fight game is based on skill and not natural talent, but the fight happen back when Hopkins was quicker on the draw in his prime and we would have seen a different fight IMO. Calzaghe got a lot of biggest fights from guys that were on the decline. The only real negative you hear about him is his fighting style and the fact that he has had wars with his lesser skilled opponents, but they don't pick apart his opponents/record like they should. Even you don't agree with me, Jermain Taylor has two wins over B Hop and he isn't shit so why does Calzaghe deserve credit for a victory after that...

Its amazing how we glorify Floyd and Manny for their wins, over a past prime Oscar, past prime Shane, etc, but use the same logic to discount Calzaghe. Honestly, just because we aren't familiar with the fighters he Calzaghe beat in his prime does not make them Bums, etc., the same thing for the Klitschko (sp) brothers. Again, how can we consider B Hop past his prime when Calzaghe beat him, but give him respect and props, and he is as Highly rated currently in the P4P rankings as he's ever been?!?!? The logic doesn't make sense... so, just because a fighter suffers loses after wins, how does it make his victories less meaningful? So.. Floyds wins over Hatton, Oscar, and Shane shouldn't be respected because Manny beat them? And some say, 'oh, he's fighting Floyd's leftovers', cool, so when a fighter, such as B Hop, has BIG wins AFTER Calzaghe beat him, then shouldn't that add more credence to Calzaghe's wins? You guys have some obvious double standards you follow when it is in regard to your 'favorites'....

 

[TJervey]

And if Calzaghe didn't need Roy Jones in his prime, why did he fight him past his prime. And he still got dropped by both B-Hop and Roy early on, imagine had they been young. Joe won the Hopkins fight but didn't really beat him. This was before Hopkins changed his style to be more offensive. If ya'll remember Hopkins only used to do enough to beat guys, he's a different fighter now. And Joe would have gotten KO'd quickly by a young Roy. Joe was totally overrated imo. I can't imagine him winning the tourney against guys like Ward or Froch or even Bute, he'd have had serious problems. He built a niche in his hometown and was making millions, fine. But why wait all those years to finally come to the states when all your rivals are already past it?

If I'm not mistaken, Roy came looking for him, just as he did Bernard, when HE ran out of options! Calzaghe never ducked Roy, he just never would bend and fight him in the States! It sort of reminds me of a few other fighters who are favorites on BGOL who dodge fighters until they have some serious shelf life on them, or suffer a loss to other fighters, and then talk shit about them, instead of being the one to beat them.

How is it that when a US fighter, who has a lot of acclaim, and is respected, then when he goes and fights someone who we don't like or respect, and gets his ass whipped, then he's was over rated or a bum. From Jeff Lacy, to Haye, both were considered SERIOUS threats up until the fight was over, then all you hear was 'they were overrated'... Come on Dude, again, there is a US bias when diagnosing fighters and their talent and place in history. Everyone talks about how weak the Klitschko (sp) brothers are and they are in a weak era, but, why is it no other heavyweights, especially american ones, have been able to dominate such a weak era?

 

[TJervey]

A knockout against a no name fighter and a knockout against Manny Pacquiao or Floyd are the same thing then right? I'm just saying because you love to go in on certain fighters and how you judge greatness based on who they've beaten......and again, and some of us not agreeing with you means we're circle jerking? You create new boxing posts daily and you obviously make these threads for a reason since it's the same heads over and over again in your threads, the same "crew", why do it then if we're just going to "crew" up and shit on your "analysis".

Dude, this 'no name' assessment is over used... just because we don't know them here doesn't mean they are talentless bums, it just means we don't know them... there are a lot of american fighters who we know love and respect, who would go to england, or wales, etc. and get the same 'no name' treatment, because they don't know them... Just being know in the mainstream US press doesn't assure that you are going to go places or you are any better than anyone else...

 

[TJervey]

And if Calzaghe didn't need Roy Jones in his prime, why did he fight him past his prime. And he still got dropped by both B-Hop and Roy early on, imagine had they been young. Joe won the Hopkins fight but didn't really beat him. This was before Hopkins changed his style to be more offensive. If ya'll remember Hopkins only used to do enough to beat guys, he's a different fighter now. And Joe would have gotten KO'd quickly by a young Roy. Joe was totally overrated imo. I can't imagine him winning the tourney against guys like Ward or Froch or even Bute, he'd have had serious problems. He built a niche in his hometown and was making millions, fine. But why wait all those years to finally come to the states when all your rivals are already past it?

I guess for the same reason our American Boxing heros of HIS prime refused to go over to his home town and country and fight him... And, by the way, as they aged he aged, it wasn't like he was a 25 year old boxer in HIS prime when he beat B Hop and Roy?

 

[P03t]

I get it, who a boxer fought only matters some times.... others can just have wins.

That "crew" shit is getting old. Anytime you find yourself backed into a corner now, you turn it into some ole we're ganging up on you bullshit. Has it even occurred to you that you might be wrong? Btw, ALL of Joe's ko's came against no name fighters he was supposed to do that to.

...1st it was "if he was black..."

then "if he was american..."



how appealing is Cal's style...slapping cats up in the corner...what good fighter has he KO'ed?

cats don't see why these fighters get no TV attention here....

overrated Euro's like I've been saying....Hatton was charging into May that whole fight....where was this good Brit boxer running into a straight right constantly?

Abraham was shutdown by Ward...

the same thing is going to happen to Froch

(Aus) Green was trying to make a name off of washed up fighters...thats why they wanted Tarver...Tarver had this cat dancing....

OVERRATED.....its not all of them but they hype their fighters ridiculously until they run into a Buzzsaw

 

[TJervey]

...1st it was "if he was black..."

then "if he was american..."



how appealing is Cal's style...slapping cats up in the corner...what good fighter has he KO'ed?

cats don't see why these fighters get no TV attention here....

overrated Euro's like I've been saying....Hatton was charging into May that whole fight....where was this good Brit boxer running into a straight right constantly?

Abraham was shutdown by Ward...

(Aus) Green was trying to make a name off of washed up fighters...thats why they wanted Tarver...Tarver had this cat dancing....

OVERRATED.....its not all of them but they hype their fighters ridiculously until they run into a Buzzsaw

A couple of our American Heros... looking real good after getting 'slapped' around by Calzaghe... He really slapped the shit out of them!

 

[P03t]

A couple of our American Heros... looking real good after getting 'slapped' around by Calzaghe... He really slapped the shit out of them!

yeah & that was prime RJJ....

Jeff Lacy is no where close to RJJ or B-Hop...American Hero Jeff Lacy? stop reaching....

let me guess Green is good too cuz he beat RJJ in 2010



if this makes you sleep at night fine bruh...but you can't talk to any knowledgeable boxing cat that would put Cal on any level with RJJ....

Wlad improved his game after he hired an American Trainer...same goes for Khan...what happen when undefeated overhyped Hatton came to the states...same with Abraham....how about Kessler?

I don't even want to go further

 

[TJervey]

yeah & that was prime RJJ....

Jeff Lacy is no where close to RJJ or B-Hop...American Hero Jeff Lacy? stop reaching....

let me guess Green is good too cuz he beat RJJ in 2010



if this makes you sleep at night fine bruh...but you can't talk to any knowledgeable boxing cat that would put Cal on any level with RJJ....

Wlad improved his game after he hired an American Trainer...same goes for Khan...what happen when undefeated overhyped Hatton came to the states...same with Abraham....how about Kessler?

I don't even want to go further

Again I say, Calzaghe was in HIS prime when he fought Roy too right? There at the most is two or three years between them. If I'm not mistaken, both brothers have beaten the shit out of American FIghters with American Trainers, so, what's your point?!?!? Also, Wlad changed trainers NOT Vitali, and this thread is about Vitali...

 

[merce77]

Its amazing how we glorify Floyd and Manny for their wins, over a past prime Oscar, past prime Shane, etc, but use the same logic to discount Calzaghe. Honestly, just because we aren't familiar with the fighters he Calzaghe beat in his prime does not make them Bums, etc., the same thing for the Klitschko (sp) brothers. Again, how can we consider B Hop past his prime when Calzaghe beat him, but give him respect and props, and he is as Highly rated currently in the P4P rankings as he's ever been?!?!? The logic doesn't make sense... so, just because a fighter suffers loses after wins, how does it make his victories less meaningful? So.. Floyds wins over Hatton, Oscar, and Shane shouldn't be respected because Manny beat them? And some say, 'oh, he's fighting Floyd's leftovers', cool, so when a fighter, such as B Hop, has BIG wins AFTER Calzaghe beat him, then shouldn't that add more credence to Calzaghe's wins? You guys have some obvious double standards you follow when it is in regard to your 'favorites'....

I hear what you're saying BUT - why wait until the last 2 fights of your career to come and fight 2 guys in their 40's? All those years that these guys were great Joe was comfortable fighting at home - they get old and suddenly Joe shows up in the sates. Also as I stated before, Bernard changed his style of fighting in the last year or two to be more offensive. To be honest, that's all his performance against Joe was lacking, offense. Again, Joe got the win but he didn't beat B-Hop, as a matter of fact, that decision was disputed by more than a few people. And it's not like Calzaghe didn't struggle for 12 rounds against a 43 year old fighter. Dude spent his career beating fringe contenders and wouldn't even fight his own countryman Froch. Calzaghe’s other notable opponents, Byron Mitchell, Richie Woodhall, Charles Brewer don't hold up well against the current super middleweight competition. With the exception of Kessler, who is Joe's best win imo, it would be a stretch to see any of his 168lb opponents making the top 10, much less fighting for a title in the current division. I mean all those years he was fighting and he never even fought Nigel Benn - who is British, he was too busy fighting all time greats like Mario Veit - TWICE. So forget about James Toney, or Roy Jones or even fucking Sven Ottke - his German counterpart.

Lets put it this way. If you take Hopkins, Toney and Jones and put them up against the exact same fighters that Joe fought - all three would have retired 46-0.

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

Wlad improved his game after he hired an American Trainer...same goes for Khan...what happen when undefeated overhyped Hatton came to the states...same with Abraham....how about Kessler?

I don't even want to go further

But that really is not a shock. When you fight tough opponents it is possible you might lose. How many so called fighters who have a future lose? Tons. That is the problem with fans. They fallen under the spell of not losing and taking on fights that assure that as a sign of greatness. It isn't. It is a sign that you have a great match making team. Even Ali and Robinson lost. But that is because they actually took tough fights. It happens.

I'm still laughing at how people call a dude with all those ko's as just a fighter that slaps.

 

[TJervey]

I hear what you're saying BUT - why wait until the last 2 fights of your career to come and fight 2 guys in their 40's? All those years that these guys were great Joe was comfortable fighting at home - they get old and suddenly Joe shows up in the sates. Also as I stated before, Bernard changed his style of fighting in the last year or two to be more offensive. To be honest, that's all his performance against Joe was lacking, offense. Again, Joe got the win but he didn't beat B-Hop, as a matter of fact, that decision was disputed by more than a few people. And it's not like Calzaghe didn't struggle for 12 rounds against a 43 year old fighter. Dude spent his career beating fringe contenders and wouldn't even fight his own countryman Froch. Calzaghe’s other notable opponents, Byron Mitchell, Richie Woodhall, Charles Brewer don't hold up well against the current super middleweight competition. With the exception of Kessler, who is Joe's best win imo, it would be a stretch to see any of his 168lb opponents making the top 10, much less fighting for a title in the current division. I mean all those years he was fighting and he never even fought Nigel Benn - who is British, he was too busy fighting all time greats like Mario Veit - TWICE. So forget about James Toney, or Roy Jones or even fucking Sven Ottke - his German counterpart.

Lets put it this way. If you take Hopkins, Toney and Jones and put them up against the exact same fighters that Joe fought - all three would have retired 46-0.

You may be right, especially after the murder's row of mailmen and firemen, etc. roy fought in his prime. Yeah, he fought a hell of a lot of future hall of famers in his run. And bernard, he fought a lot of major competition until he fought Trinidad!! They both sought out fought and beat the absolute best competition available during their prime years... and Calzaghe was at least 15 years younger than both when they fought, he was definitely in his prime...

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

Lets put it this way. If you take Hopkins, Toney and Jones and put them up against the exact same fighters that Joe fought - all three would have retired 46-0.

You can't say that. Well actually you can. But look at it this way. Hopkins lost to JT. If he could lose to him and have tough fights with elchols and mercado any other lost is possible. Toney would not have been undefeated either cause he lacks discipline out the ring. RJJ was always a fight away from a loss. He just feed on dudes that were scared to pressure him in fights. That meant an automatic loss for his opponent. But just cause I stated it doesn't mean it is true. Just my opinion. I hear yours, but disagree.

 

[merce77]

Dude, this 'no name' assessment is over used... just because we don't know them here doesn't mean they are talentless bums, it just means we don't know them... there are a lot of american fighters who we know love and respect, who would go to england, or wales, etc. and get the same 'no name' treatment, because they don't know them... Just being know in the mainstream US press doesn't assure that you are going to go places or you are any better than anyone else...

Look I don't give a fuck about this foreign shit, you got me twisted, boxing is boxing. My point is a guy with a title who is considered the undisputed champ should be seeking fighters his own caliber, all the great ones want to. Roy is just as at fault for the fight not happening sooner, but he was criticized for his comp during his prime too if I'm not mistaken. I think the Hagler vs Minter fight put a lot of American fighters off to fighting overseas. The point is Joe couldn't find the time to fight ANY of his contemporaries and no one can ever explain that to me.

 

[P03t]

Again I say, Calzaghe was in HIS prime when he fought Roy too right? There at the most is two or three years between them. If I'm not mistaken, both brothers have beaten the shit out of American FIghters with American Trainers, so, what's your point?!?!? Also, Wlad changed trainers NOT Vitali, and this thread is about Vitali...

Vitali's game is flawless he is tougher & taller than Wlad...when Wlad was getting rocked who he turned to to fix his horrible footwork?

my point is alot of Euro's & Aussies are overrated...not all but alot...when they fight here they usually lose or when they fight a good American Boxer they lose....I'm lying bruh...?

I never discredited the Klits....they are unbeatable bruh READ MY POSTS....they beat up Americans yes...dominate yes....

again how good is the HW division....?

ask anyone who really watches the sport comment on the heavies...the heavies are terrible...who is next for the Klits bruh....?

Adamek a CW moving up to fight Vitali......Haye rematch...who else is there for them to prove how great they are?

the division is weak thats why I said they are not the greatest but to deserve to be in the Top 25 like Blues said....

and again Americans have had more success in Boxing...

was it not P4P king Manny who said he credits his success to Roach?

when Khan got KTFO what gym he went too to improve his game...how about JCC jr?

how about Caballero & the Mayweathers...

 

[Alaskanredman]

Its amazing how we glorify Floyd and Manny for their wins, over a past prime Oscar, past prime Shane, etc, but use the same logic to discount Calzaghe. Honestly, just because we aren't familiar with the fighters he Calzaghe beat in his prime does not make them Bums, etc., the same thing for the Klitschko (sp) brothers. Again, how can we consider B Hop past his prime when Calzaghe beat him, but give him respect and props, and he is as Highly rated currently in the P4P rankings as he's ever been?!?!? The logic doesn't make sense... so, just because a fighter suffers loses after wins, how does it make his victories less meaningful? So.. Floyds wins over Hatton, Oscar, and Shane shouldn't be respected because Manny beat them? And some say, 'oh, he's fighting Floyd's leftovers', cool, so when a fighter, such as B Hop, has BIG wins AFTER Calzaghe beat him, then shouldn't that add more credence to Calzaghe's wins? You guys have some obvious double standards you follow when it is in regard to your 'favorites'....

Well here's the thing. I'm not the biggest fan of the De La or Shane fights, but you have to consider a few things. A size advantage was given to De La verus the size advantage that Calzaghe had built in. Both Shane and De La looked impressive due to KO wins before they fought Floyd at least. Then shit we are going to be real about shit let's get back to the main issue where are the Castillos, Corales, Barreras amd Morales before the old head fights? Those are big difference.Let's also be real about Hopkins on a side note that I forgot to add, before the Pascal fight a lot of us were saying because of inactivity and his comp level that he should be in the P4P. A lot of us were shocked about Dawson losing the way he did to Pascal... some of us saw Dawson as have heart issues, but a fighter like B Hop is supposed to beat a Pascal and what makes it impressive is B Hop's age just like his dominant wins over Tarver and Pavlik.

 

[tp2001]

Re: Is Vitali Klitschko one of the Greatest?

Yes, Valuev is bummish but we have bums too in America. Bums like Monte Barret and he couldn´t beat Valuev. So even bum vs bum we´re having problems with these guys.

bum vs bum = a bum ass fight

Vitali Klitschko is caught in a bad situation to me...he can't be ranked as high as Foreman or Holmes because of the selection of fighters that are out there. Granted, he is a very good fighter, but he rarely has been put to the test by any of the heavyweights on the lists today...

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

Re: Is Vitali Klitschko one of the Greatest?

bum vs bum = a bum ass fight

Vitali Klitschko is caught in a bad situation to me...he can't be ranked as high as Foreman or Holmes because of the selection of fighters that are out there. Granted, he is a very good fighter, but he rarely has been put to the test by any of the heavyweights on the lists today...

The K brothers are like Holmes. Not a great deal of great opponents to fight. They are fighting the people out there. It isn't like you can argue they duck opponents. And they aren't in a bad situation. You fight who is available. That is something that happens in all weight classes. Their man issue is they can't go up in weight for a challenge.