Mike Tyson talks him VS Ali

[Better]

Everything in me wants to say Tyson...

...but, Ali beat motherfuckers he "shouldn't have".

Which means, he great tools, but not the tools people ultimately respect.

Like, for instance, if you stand Shaq up next to Olajuwon...

...Shaq just looks like he should dominate. However ...

...well, it didn't go down like that when they played. That's because, people overrate power and speed. There are other factors to consider.

Olajuwon is an excellent example, but his footwork made him virtually unstoppable. The same could be said for Ali, and that was only one of their great attributes.

 

[Megatron X]

In their primes AND all-time greats. Mitch Green only won 19 fights man. 19 fights. Are you from NY? That's the only reason I can imagine anyone trying to use Mitch Green for someone's resume. Beating Mitch Green means NOTHING for someone's resume.

Marvis Frazier won 19 fights. Name one meaningful boxer he beat.

These guys are cans.

And I'm not comparing Ali's resume to Tyson's. That would be stupid as Ali's resume shits all over Tyson's.

What I'm try to do is get you to name all-time greats that Tyson beat in their primes that would make one believe he could beat a guy like Ali in his prime. Because we know Ali could beat guys like Tyson because he did.

And that's not even taking into consideration that Tyson (through his entire career) struggled with tall fighters that could jab.

The reality of the matter is that Tyson's doesn't have many great wins on his resume because he beat a bunch of cans and a couple of respectable boxers leading up to his title.

So wait you don't consider Tony Tucker and pinklon Thomas true boxers or great fighters?

 

[Winslow Wong]

Here is an example of what Ali did to the Tyson Progenitor Floyd Patterson - Cus D'amato trained Tyson in the same peek a boo style aas Patterson and her is what Ali did to him - peppering him with jabs and standing him up with hooks - Cus was furious at Ali - but Ali was more furious at Patterson

<iframe width="853" height="480" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/vJ4LGdkhCig" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Ali was bigger and taller than Tyson and fought into the later rounds - he would danced and jabbed and dragged Tyson into the deeper waters of the later rounds and would have drowned him.

Tyson was great but Ali was the Greatest of All Time (GOAT)

 

[Brother Blues]

If courage,discipline and the ability to adapt means anything....

Ali beats Tyson every time,the same way Holyfield beats him every time.

Every thing they were....Tyson was not.

Ali opponents....Joe Frazier,Ron Lyle,George Forman,Ken Norton,Floyd Patterson,Jimmy Ellis....a who's who of great heavys.

I know,Tyson fought Pinklon Thomas and Marvis Frazier

Even the white boys Ali fought,like Jerry Quarry could fight...

 

[Spectrum]

So wait you don't consider Tony Tucker and pinklon Thomas true boxers or great fighters?

I didn't say anything about "true" boxers. I said explicitly said "all-time greats". Tony Tucker was a good boxer and actually started the fight off strong against Tyson. He was winning on the cards early. But he wasn't an all-time great any stretch. I can use the same thing for him. Name the all-time greats that Tucker beat during their primes. How many good champions did he beat while they were in their primes? I'm not comparing either one of them to Ali because his resume reigns supreme. He's got a long list of greats during their primes.

You gave Tyson a 3 year run as his prime... the problem is that he didn't beat any great fighters in their prime during that run. Again, I know Ali can beat all time great fighters with all types of styles (and he fought guys like Tyson...and guys that hit harder than tyson too) but we cant say the same for Tyson. His resume is crazy weak.

 

[cincitystudios]

Muhammad Ali said the same thing about tyson...

Damn that vid was SPECIAL!!!

I watched boxing a lot and boxed a little myself. I grew up watching TYson. ALi was before my time but I have watched his biggest fights. I would like to believe that if Ali did the rope a dope on tyson he would get broke down. But I don't think he would've had to do that. Just keep the jab out there an do him like he did frazier.

 

[exiledking]

I didn't say anything about "true" boxers. I said explicitly said "all-time greats". Tony Tucker was a good boxer and actually started the fight off strong against Tyson. He was winning on the cards early. But he wasn't an all-time great any stretch. I can use the same thing for him. Name the all-time greats that Tucker beat during their primes. How many good champions did he beat while they were in their primes? I'm not comparing either one of them to Ali because his resume reigns supreme. He's got a long list of greats during their primes.

You gave Tyson a 3 year run as his prime... the problem is that he didn't beat any great fighters in their prime during that run. Again, I know Ali can beat all time great fighters with all types of styles (and he fought guys like Tyson...and guys that hit harder than tyson too) but we cant say the same for Tyson. His resume is crazy weak.

I can't believe these guys are still trying to dance around the original point lmao


I think they've never had to think about it before and it's fucking w them lolol

 

[HNIC]

I lived through the latter part of the Ali era, I think Ali would have won, but anything can happen in boxing.

HNIC

 

[Nzinga]

I think a lot of people just don't want to admit that a prime Mike Tyson on his best day could beat a prime Muhamed Ali. Not just Tyson's power but his accuracy and speed. Ernie Shavers only had the punching power Tyson had not the speed and accuracy. Tyson would overwhelm Ali.

I agree. Mike Tyson was a fundamentally more sound fighter, who was as
fast, if not faster.

 

[ron_mexico]

All kind of non sense going on in this thread. Mofos talking about Ali fought Rocky Marciano. . All these fighters supposedly ducked Tyson? The rumor is Tyson ducked big George. ..look it up, this is a well known rumor. And Lennox Lewis did fight Tyson and punished him. Holyfield did the same twice. ...talking about Cacs never dropped Tyson. A car made Tyson quit and retire. ..look that up too. ..

 

[Bluelaser]

and as far as Spinks goes, he was like 180 lb's it seemed on fight night. he didnt stand a chance. that fight was over before it started

Exactly,
Michael Spinks this look of fear like he didn't want to be there because he knew he was gonna get his ass kicked.
I knew them that it was over before it started.

 

[Brother Blues]

Not to mention rocky Marciano knocked his ass down. Tyson never got knocked down by no CAC.

Ali made a living off of getting knocked down by cacs

Sorry,but your right to post in boxing threads is now suspended...

 

[will_right]

As far as we know..Holyfield is the best of Tysons era. Like others have said. What great fighter did Tyson beat?

Does Tysons hit harder than big George, Earnie Shavers or Sonny Liston? None of these men could Ko Ali..Ali had a granite chin.

Tyson would DESTROY Joe F..yet he beat Ali..TYSON would KO Norton yet He ALSO beat Ali..TYSON was a Quicker..Faster Fighter and with MORE power than Joe and in BOTH hands not just his left hook. IMO Mike would have beat ALI at the time Joe did.then Ali wins the rematch AND rubber match but NOBODY beats Ali pre Three year layoff..NO One!

 

[gamersfuel]

I agree. Mike Tyson was a fundamentally more sound fighter, who was as
fast, if not faster.

wait, what?

 

[will_right]

I think Ali over Tyson easily. You have to understand that Ali fought wars in the ring! I love Tyson... Lord knows I do... but he didn't have the equal of a George Foreman or Joe Frazier to challenge him. Ali would've gotten in the ring and danced and Rope-a-Dope'd his way around Tyson and then it would be lights out. Ali was a thinking man's boxer and Tyson was a street fighter. Two different types of fighters we're talking here. I always said if you came into the ring to fight Tyson, you would lose. He would kill you dead. However, if you were like Holyfield and Douglas who actually stood toe-to-toe and boxed Tyson, you'd kick his ass!

When TYSON fought Holyfield he was Done!They SHOULD have had that fight at LEAST 7-8 years earlier. when he had the fight with LEWIS he was REALLY done..a shell of himself Buster got Lucky..Tyson had actually WON that fight..but Tyson was on the wrong end of a LONG count in favor of Buster PLUS Tyson had not trained..Hell even I saw his ass at the club BS'ing with Drop top Limo in Manh fulla Chics.. But for Buster it was Life or death..that and his mother on his mind etc etc that plus Tyson looked past him...under estimated him etc.

 

[exiledking]

I agree. Mike Tyson was a fundamentally more sound fighter, who was as
fast, if not faster.

And he had many chances to prove this against fighters like Holyfield and Lennox Lewis, but he didn't, yet you all still parrot the same nonsense. A guy with a two year run against nobodies and lost to a nobody IN HIS PRIME.

 

[will_right]

foreman was older then larry was. No excuse. Give Tyson that credit.


Plus foreman ducked Tyson, tommy Morrison ducked Tyson, moorer ducked Tyson, bowe ducked Tyson, butter bean ducked Tyson, Dwight qawi, ray mercer, oliver mcall, larry holmes ducked him all the way until 92

Now YOU sir know your Shit..cuz ALL of this ws True!

 

[slam]

i think if tyson fought holyfield before he went to jail i think he would`ve won...

jus sayin...jail fucked him up....


they were suppose to fight in 92....4 yrs later....i dunno...

 

[exiledking]

When TYSON fought Holyfield he was Done!They SHOULD have had that fight at LEAST 7-8 years earlier. when he had the fight with LEWIS he was REALLY done..a shell of himself Buster got Lucky..Tyson had actually WON that fight..but Tyson was on the wrong end of a LONG count in favor of Buster PLUS Tyson had not trained..Hell even I saw his ass at the club BS'ing with Drop top Limo in Manh fulla Chics.. But for Buster it was Life or death..that and his mother on his mind etc etc that plus Tyson looked past him...under estimated him etc.

He fought Holyfield at 30 years old. That's what you call DONE?

At 23 fighting Douglass IN HIS PRIME he LOST.

Lucky, long count, whatever. I watched it all. I felt the same at first because I was a blind Tyson fan at the time. Looking at it later, he LOST, plain and simple. He never fought busta again. He fought four more times before going to jail. None if them were Douglass.

Douglass got KO'd by Holyfield right after.

Tyson came out of jail at 30 and got his title back. Then he lost it to Holyfield.


Floyd came out of jail at 35 and hasn't list since.

Ali came out of jail and won titles back.

There's no excuse.

 

[Nobody]

I say they split over multiple fights.

Depends on the day really.

Anyone who says Ali wins every time is a fool.
Anyone who says Tyson wins every time is a fool.

Ali has fought better fighters, but that's what that era had. It's not like Ali never lost.
While Tyson didn't fight those greats, it's not like he was being taken into later rounds by the guys he fought - he straight up dominated.

His lifestyle is what did him in professionally - not his ability.

 

[exiledking]

I say they split over multiple fights.

Depends on the day really.

Anyone who says Ali wins every time is a fool.
Anyone who says Tyson wins every time is a fool.

Ali has fought better fighters, but that's what that era had. It's not like Ali never lost.
While Tyson didn't fight those greats, it's not like he was being taken into later rounds by the guys he fought - he straight up dominated.

His lifestyle is what did him in professionally - not his ability.

Lifestyle counts. For that matter I can pick any damn body I know who I think was great at some point and had a great fight one night.


Fuck it, anyone who fights Busta Douglass he night he beat Tyson would lose.

Voila, Busta Douglass is an all time great. He can beat Ali.

 

[LordSinister]

What makes Ali's opponents all-time greats but not Tyson opponents??? What did Ali's opponents have that Tyson's did not have.

A Chin

Stamina

Skills

Heart.

 

[will_right]

Here is an example of what Ali did to the Tyson Progenitor Floyd Patterson - Cus D'amato trained Tyson in the same peek a boo style aas Patterson and her is what Ali did to him - peppering him with jabs and standing him up with hooks - Cus was furious at Ali - but Ali was more furious at Patterson

<iframe width="853" height="480" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/vJ4LGdkhCig" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Ali was bigger and taller than Tyson and fought into the later rounds - he would danced and jabbed and dragged Tyson into the deeper waters of the later rounds and would have drowned him.

Tyson was great but Ali was the Greatest of All Time (GOAT)

How DARE you compare this BUM Floyd Patterson to TYSON..I don't give a shit who trained him..compared to TYSON this dude was a Bum..TYSON is better skilled than patterson in EVERY way a fighter would want to be..the ONLY thing this guy had was the same trainer..so sorry but this is a poor comparison.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

looking back at that arsenio interview, mike tyson was always articulate, just shy and the media put an image of him being dumb out there.

he wasn't dumb he just trusted a shark that ate his ass up right after the only father he ever knew died.. that could happen to anybody.

 

[will_right]

He fought Holyfield at 30 years old. That's what you call DONE?

At 23 fighting Douglass IN HIS PRIME he LOST.

Lucky, long count, whatever. I watched it all. I felt the same at first because I was a blind Tyson fan at the time. Looking at it later, he LOST, plain and simple. He never fought busta again. He fought four more times before going to jail. None if them were Douglass.

Douglass got KO'd by Holyfield right after.

Tyson came out of jail at 30 and got his title back. Then he lost it to Holyfield.


Floyd came out of jail at 35 and hasn't list since.

Ali came out of jail and won titles back.

There's no excuse.

NO excuses just REASONS dude REASONS..ONE did Ali ever NOT have angelo dundee in his corner? did he ever DIE when he needed him the most..C'mon man if you are a true boxing fan the you know good and damn well tyson was NOT the same fighter after cus died now if you won't admit this then your erroneous

 

[LordSinister]

How DARE you compare this BUM Floyd Patterson to TYSON..I don't give a shit who trained him..compared to TYSON this dude was a Bum..TYSON is better skilled than patterson in EVERY way a fighter would want to be..the ONLY thing this guy had was the same trainer..so sorry but this is a poor comparison.

Floyd Patterson is a bum?

2 time champ is a bum.

 

[exiledking]

NO excuses just REASONS dude REASONS..ONE did Ali ever NOT have angelo dundee in his corner? did he ever DIE when he needed him the most..C'mon man if you are a true boxing fan the you know good and damn well tyson was NOT the same fighter after cus died now if you won't admit this then your erroneous

Dundee wasn't Ali's brain. He was his own. I'm not ignoring any of it, I'm pointing out that Ali was self contained and therefore didn't have all those weirdo variables you can count as REASONS Tyson didn't get one thing or another accomplished.

You guys are comparing potential to actual accomplishments.

 

[will_right]

Floyd Patterson is a bum?

2 time champ is a bum.

Not out right bum no but I'm comparing him to TYSON OK and compared to TYSON YES he's a BUM!

 

[will_right]

Does ANYBODY in here believe JOE Frazier would have beaten Mike Tyson? YES or NO and please explain WHY...THEN explain WHY and HOW did this dude BEAT Ali? THEN explain WHY you feel that under the SAME conditions he would NOT do as well or BETTER than Frazier did on that Night...C'mon people if Joe beat Ali wouldn't Tyson be able to at LEAST do WELL? geez people

 

[gamersfuel]

you guys are missing the point. Tyson wasnt as skilled as what you are led to believe. He bullied his opponents by rushing them and using a barrage of punches using his, i admit, great punching power. But once he started facing guys who were able to stand toe to toe, the game changed for him. once douglas beat him, it was open season. The bully had been stood up to. I'd still put him pretty high all time but no where near greatest.

 

[Megatron X]

A Chin

Stamina

Skills

Heart.

Okay, so Tyson's opponents did not have this? Why, because Tyson either dominated them or KO'ed them early? Just because Tyson did that that means they did not have a chin, stamina, skills, or heart?

You can have a chin and still get knocked the hell out. You can have stamina and still dominated by a better fighter. You can have skills and still get out skilled by a better fighter. You can have heart which gives you more strength but your opponent can still more hunger.

Could it be that the 1985 to 1988 Tyson was just that damn good? The real Mike Tyson died in 1988. The reason Buster Douglass beat Tyson was many reasons: Tyson's emotional issues with Robin Givens, Tyson beginning to lack in hunger and training, firing Kevin Rooney which was a major mistake cause he had mike on the right path. Tyson got into shit when he left Rooney and got cause up with greedy bastard, Don King. Tyson also abandoned the Peek A Boo Style.

 

[exiledking]

Does ANYBODY in here believe JOE Frazier would have beaten Mike Tyson? YES or NO and please explain WHY...THEN explain WHY and HOW did this dude BEAT Ali? THEN explain WHY you feel that under the SAME conditions he would NOT do as well or BETTER than Frazier did on that Night...C'mon people if Joe beat Ali wouldn't Tyson be able to at LEAST do WELL? geez people

yes of course. An example of how he could have done it is the same way Holyfield DID,


But what makes your question a little sillier is the fact that Foreman beat Frazier. beat the shit out of him. And Ali beat Foreman. He also beat Frazier 2 out of 3.

Also, another aspect of your question- Ali never KO'd frazier. Well, I think TKO in the last one, but Ali didn't wanna get up front he chair either that day. Tyson has been KO'd and he wasn't the type who could get up from a knockdown either. You've never seen him get off the mat and win. Frazier has.

 

[exiledking]

Okay, so Tyson's opponents did not have this? Why, because Tyson either dominated them or KO'ed them early? Just because Tyson did that that means they did not have a chin, stamina, skills, or heart?

You can have a chin and still get knocked the hell out. You can have stamina and still dominated by a better fighter. You can have skills and still get out skilled by a better fighter. You can have heart which gives you more strength but your opponent can still more hunger.

Could it be that the 1985 to 1988 Tyson was just that damn good? The real Mike Tyson died in 1988. The reason Buster Douglass beat Tyson was many reasons: Tyson's emotional issues with Robin Givens, Tyson beginning to lack in hunger and training, firing Kevin Rooney which was a major mistake cause he had mike on the right path. Tyson got into shit when he left Rooney and got cause up with greedy bastard, Don King. Tyson also abandoned the Peek A Boo Style.

Tyrell Biggs
Pinklon Thomas
Michael Spinks
Trevor Berbick


which one of these guys are in your boxing hall of fame?

How is it his victories over losers is because he was just that good, but when he lost to Buster Douglass,or Holyfield, or Lennox Lewis there had to be a reason for it, instead of "he just WASN'T that good"?

 

[Megatron X]

Tyrell Biggs
Pinklon Thomas
Michael Spinks
Trevor Berbick


which one of these guys are in your boxing hall of fame?

How is it his victories over losers is because he was just that good, but when he lost to Buster Douglass,or Holyfield, or Lennox Lewis there had to be a reason for it, instead of "he just WASN'T that good"?

Losers, losers, you all keep calling these fighters losers. Why do you call these fighters losers? What makes them losers? They all had good fighting records at one point. Again, I said that the real Mike Tyson died in 1988. The Tyson who fought Holyfield and Lewis was a washed up Tyson. This is something you keep ignoring. He did that shit to himself by abandoning Cus' training camp.

 

[will_right]

yes of course. An example of how he could have done it is the same way Holyfield DID,


But what makes your question a little sillier is the fact that Foreman beat Frazier. beat the shit out of him. And Ali beat Foreman. He also beat Frazier 2 out of 3.

Also, another aspect of your question- Ali never KO'd frazier. Well, I think TKO in the last one, but Ali didn't wanna get up front he chair either that day. Tyson has been KO'd and he wasn't the type who could get up from a knockdown either. You've never seen him get off the mat and win. Frazier has.

What about my question is silly? Ok smart ass then I guess you'd also say Holyfield would have beaten Ali then huh? LOOK man I don't know what's got you acting like I started this thread but I didn't I was just saying that HEY if JOE FRAZIER beat Ali Once then maybe...just MAYBE Tyson would ALSO have had a great chance at beating him at the time Joe did CUZ IMO TYSON was better than Frazier. The Style of fighting that Frazier uses...TYSON is better at it..How in the FUCK can you say that Frazier would/could have beaten Tyson the same way Holyfield did when JOE employs a Tyson style of fighting that TYSON is better at? EVERY fight Ali EVER had trouble in was 99.9% from a fucking Left Hook..Cooper and Joe BOTH floored Ali with a Left Hook fool..so here's the question I put to you..Do EITHER of those fighters have a Better,Faster more Powerful left hook than Tyson? FUCK NO! yet they Both landed their Left hook on Ali Over and OVER again..WHY NOT TYSON'S?..it's Faster,Quicker More powerful and less telegraphed.I never said Tyson was Better than Ali aight I just feel that on any given night He too might have beaten Ali just as Norton and Frazier did..now If you refuse to except that possibility i'm done talking about it with you na mean