This might be of relevance to this discussion. Some clearly don't know the history behind the game.
Some of the greats:
Some of the greats:
Messi The Greatest Ever?
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Soccer is a WORLD sport. If you aren't the undisputed best in your country's history, you aren't in the conversation of the best of all-time.
Maradona >>>>> Messi until he actually shows up in the world cup. The game is easy for him in Barcelona... let me see him carry a team..
and Ronaldo (not Christiano) >>>> Messi.... Messi is fucking Peyton Manning... do something when it fucking counts... otherwise you are just stat padding when it doesnt count.
Maradona >>>>> Messi until he actually shows up in the world cup. The game is easy for him in Barcelona... let me see him carry a team..
and Ronaldo (not Christiano) >>>> Messi.... Messi is fucking Peyton Manning... do something when it fucking counts... otherwise you are just stat padding when it doesnt count.
thank u
maybe u right. but for me personally i dont think so. the reason why i say this is because a lot of the players cant stand playing hardball. hell even ex footballers are saying it. would messi go through 6 pepe's? maybe me personally dont think so. chelsea proved that one to me over and over. u see how frustrated he becomes playing against chelsea. nothing seems to work then.
now lets go back to the 90s were u only had mofos like pepe and the rules where not there.there is a reason why a lot of great players couldnt finish their careers or ended up broking. example ronaldo and marco van basten. thats why they changed the rules in the first place.
like you said the game is more technical now. even the defenders are messi types. thats also a reason why it got easier for the strikers.
messi deserves all the props, i just want to see him without xavi or iniesta.
to me iniesta is the best player at this moment. he is important for his country and football club. and he gets the prices also. i dont know why nobody mention him and go straight to CR7 or messi.
I understand where you're coming from. It's just a personal preference on how we enjoy the game and that's cool.
I personally enjoy aesthetic football, (the beautiful game) so Messi and his football stands out to me in that regard. You can go 100mph, and have all the muscles in the world, but if you don't have the ball, you're not really doing anything.
That's just my opinion though which is why I lean the way I do.
Also, i've seen Messi play for the national team on several occasions here in the states, and he hasn't disappointed one bit.
This was in NJ last summer against Brazil.
oh....man im american with little soccer history...that ninjas name is pele
Garrincha!!!
If club football is so hard cause they got "millionaires in every position" then world cup should be easier for Messi to win that club awards.
Not so?
Has he won a World Cup?
Nope.
He needs to deliver on the World Stage to crack the top 5.
Rivaldo >> Messi
i was at that game and messi last goal was 
.
but messi isnt the greatest. ninja dont show up for the natioanal team in TOURNAMENTS. ninjais used to having xavi and iniesta with him plus I think la liga isn't a competitive league compared to the primer league and serie A.
i told people numberous times.....i want to see messi do the shit he do in england or italy. because I dont think he's shit outside of spain.
.but messi isnt the greatest. ninja dont show up for the natioanal team in TOURNAMENTS. ninjais used to having xavi and iniesta with him plus I think la liga isn't a competitive league compared to the primer league and serie A.
i told people numberous times.....i want to see messi do the shit he do in england or italy. because I dont think he's shit outside of spain.
oh....man im american with little soccer history...that ninjas name is pele
Edison Arantes do Nascimento. that's slavery does to a black man.
in my opinion Messi is the best player playing now...easily. Best ever? Well he's got some work to do on the international stage. But he's young so he's got a lot of time on his hands to get it done. Argentina aren't the greatest team though...they got a bunch of quality attackers but that's about it. I'll put Pele at the top on my list.
Pele, Ronaldo(best striker ever), Ronaldinho, Zidane, Messi and Maradonna should all be in everyone's top list.
Pele, Ronaldo(best striker ever), Ronaldinho, Zidane, Messi and Maradonna should all be in everyone's top list.
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yeah seen that match he was good there. but he needs to do it when it counts. they played saudi arabia after that and trust me you dont want to see that match lol. they all sucked. they p;played 0-0 against Saudi Arabia
oh....man im american with little soccer history...that ninjas name is pele
alpha stunting on yall
If club football is so hard cause they got "millionaires in every position" then world cup should be easier for Messi to win that club awards.
Not so?
Has he won a World Cup?
Nope.
He needs to deliver on the World Stage to crack the top 5.
Rivaldo >> Messi
Rivaldo better than Messi... If you want. I'll disagree respectfully with time being the deciding factor in front of the youngster.
On every level, you play to your competition. Even on the amateur pub level. Doesn't make a difference in the pro's. I've seen Messi take on the USA and do next to nothing because they we're playing the USA. Hard to play good football against crap competition, but I digress. That's an entirely different topic.
I understand most people's stance about Messi having to win a World Cup, and for a player that's achieved so much in the game, it's only natural that the WC is his unicorn.
He's broken Muller's, Maradona's, Pele's, Cryuff's, Di Stefano's, Beckenbauer's record's, all at a very young age, and with 3-4 years to peak, he'll break whoever else's numbers are left on the charts in due time.
For the title of "greatest ever", sure. He might need one. And probably only one to take that claim.
But no one is ever going to exclude Messi from being one of the greats to ever play this game.
If he's not up the best, he's definitely knocking on the door.
yeah seen that match he was good there. but he needs to do it when it counts. they played saudi arabia after that and trust me you dont want to see that match lol. they all sucked. they p;played 0-0 against Saudi Arabia
Yea, I wouldn't be surprised. Like I mentioned earlier, cats always play down to their competition all the time, and it's Saudi Arabia...
this is a brazilian thing... most Brazilians over the age of 50 say Garrincha >>> Pele... I got some compelled by the first person telling me that that I started asking a lot of people a few years back. I think I even made a thread about it here on bgol... interesting arguments by the old timers.
Scoring records are just that..... scoring
Having Iniesta and Xavi will definitely do that.
When Messi could leave Barca and go to another team and dominate that league and Champions' League then I will give him props over Rivaldo.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rivaldo
The fact that he is not even better than maradona says a lot.
Marodona, Azteca Stadium, World Cup 1986 = one of the greatest displays of football + goal of the century
Maradona single handedly carried Argentina to the World Cup finals and won it.
That World Cup had me questioning if Pele was really the greatest.
The only person who ever did that shit was Pele, Maradona and Zidane.
Messi needs to step up.
Good is scoring records, club honors etc...
Great is carrying an entire team to World Cup victory and dominating on the world stage.
I hope Messi could step up
Neymar will be better than all of them
Watch
Watch
You live in Brazil... the sport is football
Hmmm... Many in Brazil will tell you that Pele benefitted from Garrincha (whose also touted as an overall better player by many Brazilians), Tostao, Rivelino in the same manner Messi benefits from his duo... like this here...
Rivelinho and Garrincha are also both cited in saying, "pele got lucky" due in part to the ensemble surrounding him.
http://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/pele-got-lucky-says-teammate-garrincha-20121123-29xgi.html
The fact that he is not even better than maradona says a lot.
Marodona, Azteca Stadium, World Cup 1986 = one of the greatest displays of football + goal of the century
Maradona single handedly carried Argentina to the World Cup finals and won it.
That World Cup had me questioning if Pele was really the greatest.
The only person who ever did that shit was Pele, Maradona and Zidane.
Messi needs to step up.
Good is scoring records, club honors etc...
Great is carrying an entire team to World Cup victory and dominating on the world stage.
I hope Messi could step up
I have no gripes with that. While I don't necessarily agree with the World Cup=Greatness stance, Messi will probably have his World Cup before his time up and then these talks will resurface again.
Interestingly enough, it could come in Brazil next year.
This. Dude plays in a great system with a team full of superstars. It makes things easy for him. I'm not knocking him, but I'm holding off (on this greatest of all-time talk) until he delivers in the world cup. Dude has done practically nothing in the world cup yet..nothing.
1. Do not bring the US into any discussion of serious football
2. Messi needs to win a world Cup for his country
3. Ucar Godfrey Chitalu scored 107 goals in one season for Kabwe Warriors. Take it or leave it, that is the world record
4. Pele scored more than 1000 goals in his career
5. Messi is 2 World Cups behind Pele at this point, and will NEVER catch up.
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if he wins a World Cup, he will become one of the greatest of all time
The World Cup is the standard by which greatness is measured. Your objections, though noted, are irrelevant.
To me.. that's the only way.. or at least score a bunch of goals and carry his team to the Finals. He's been a complete non-factor in the world cup...period.
Thank you....
The major problem with that argument is tha Pele has WON without Garrincha. Shit... Pele was even taking Santos to Europe and embarrassing teams
Messi can take that Barca team anywhere on this planet and embarass teams as well. And does.
I understand full well what you're saying, but by that accord, Garrincha won a World Cup without Pele as well.
Might not have been in mass quantities like Pele, but it was shown that that Brazil squad was strong enough to do the business without him which then goes back to the question of supporting cast, and ensemble.
Just for the record, i'm not taking anything away from Pele here. He was a beast in his own right, and deserves all the praise football can give him, no matter how senile he is now. (he once said Rooney was more complete than Messi
OK.... )I'm simply questioning whether or not the difficulty level of the World Cup in today's footballing climate, is a tough as it was 30, 40, 50 years ago.
If it isn't, (which by all accounts today, doesn't look so) than what is?
Because Barca is a team made up of some of the world's best players. It's damn near the world cup team.
Pele took a Santos team around the world and whooped ass and he was the only real star. THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE. You completely missed the point. Pele was dominating teams by himself. Messi hasn't done that.... and it shows his limitations because he always comes up short in the world cup. The Argentinian team could do the same shit without him out there because he doesn't produce.
If Messi doesn't do shit in 2014, it's pointless to even bring him up in the GOAT talks.... do something when you need to carry your team.
The best ever, no doubt...he won his 4th Ballon d'Or even if Iniesta should have won it...nigga's a beast!
no matter how senile he is now. (he once said Rooney was more complete than Messi
He's not senile he's just a "hater" ( I hate that world). Him and Maradona still fight it out over the media about who is the goat... shit comes up in the brazilian media at least one a month.
Shit.. he even said Neymar was better than Messi.... He says that shit because he really think that no one is even close to being the player he was...So he's like Rooney or Neymar are better than Messi (and you know neither of them is fucking with Pele)... he does that to diminish the position of Messi.. he doesn't really beleive that shit.. he aint senile.. he's just arrogant as fuck
And Garrincha, never won without Pele before; and Brazil did not win for 16 years after Pele..
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