Mcdonalds Incident.... Self defense???
- Thread starter tapdatass
- Start date
Exactly. It seems some posters have never lost someone to gun play by some little smurf looking muthafucka. If someone half your size is in attack mode, it is reasonable to assume that they may be armed. If those muthafuckas are still moving, they can still pull OR retrieve a weapon and kill you.
Shit, there was a case on The First 48 just like this. Someone attacked a person that had a gun. They were on top beating them and stabbing them. The person was still able to draw the gun and kill them.
Who here is willing to bet his or her own life on some "compassion" for an attacker type shit? You hit that muthafucka a couple of times, they like" Ok...ok..." and as they are getting up they light your stupid ass up. That's what happens in REAL LIFE. Shit isn't about being hard. Shit is about knowing the black homicide rate is through the roof for a reason. Gun play is everywhere.
Had this happened in an Arab store and the Arab pulled a gun and shot them as they jumped the counter, he is getting off. A cop is getting off. Why does the black man have to be overcharged?
Because he's a felon already. A violent 1. He's not getting a break. There are no breaks. He's black. This is not unknown. Why do you guys act like you don't know what the deal is? Instead of putting yourselves in situations where he has to be incarcerated again. You'd think you learn your lesson and become as pacifistic as possible.
You know you're hunted. But instead of adapting you keep poking your head up to get it shot off.
Hm.
I'm going to have to disagree with you and some of what you've said.
It's one thing when we're talking domestic relationships and those physical encounters, but a completely different situation when you have a situation.
Legally, when she struck first he was well within his right to strike back. It was clearly a reflex motion, and honestly you can't make it a gender issue when it comes to that. You can't judge a man for striking back when he was struck first, by a drunken stranger.
Secondly, when they jumped over the counter keep in mind the tight space they were in. He retreated, and they went after him. Them being women and 5'3 or whatever means NOTHING. They were the aggressor, from the first strike to jumping over the counter. He retreated and they came after him. Also, it doesn't matter the gender or size of the women because guess what, a weapon is still pretty small and easily concealable regardless of the person.
I don't blame him for grabbing a weapon to defend himself, because he had reasonable suspicion that he was in danger. And the first rule of defense is you NEVER assume the best. Hell you NEVER make any assumptions. If someone is approaching like that, you assume they have something and to protect yourself.
Now, was he a tad extreme towards the end? Yes.
With all that said, why is it always on the man? Why can't it be "shouldn't those women realize that the odds they beat that man up is small?"
You're being way too hyperbolic in this post.
He didn't put himself in this situation.
I look at it like this.
If they didn't throw the first punch, would they be in the hospital? He was where he was supposed to be, and from the video he was very calm.
Right until she ASSAULTS HIM.
If they didn't jump over the counter, would they be in the hospital?
He reacted, in a manner that is considered self defense (the slap in retaliation), and retreated. Had they not went after him, would they be in the hospital? The answer is no.
He didn't put himself in any situation. They put themselves in the situation they ended up in. His record will hurt him.
But. There is no loss of life, and they approached him. His argument would be that they kept getting up, and were still a threat. Now if they didn't move and he repeatedly beat them... then he's definitely in trouble.
Right now it's still up in the air.
Like i've said before. I've seen alot of these cases. And they pretty much always ask, could he have stopped? At what point could he have stopped? We can make up scenarios all we want. I'm going by what has happened before. And what he was charged with, and WHY he was charged with it.
My position has already been stated about the women.
That won't work. I remember this same type of case as vividly as can be. It wasn't women. It was a man. The guy was attacked, he was beating the attacker, the DA, Judge said why didn't you leave? Why didn't you back away once he was down? He stopped, for a moment and then proceeded to stay there and keep swinging. He had a metal bat. He broke ribs, crushed an orbital. Beat the guy down. Men get charged with murder because of accidental happenings like this all the time. Always with the self defense excuse. You can't use that if you had an opportunity to stop and walk away.
Honestly i don't like that it happened. But legally, it's spot on. Is it justice? That's a better question.
Rick Ronson
Banned
Those bitches were about to show that nigga what time it was.
Answer this. Per your words, Why is he not a "real man" for defending himself? Would he have been any less of a man if his attackers were men?
And the first question was would you be in here vehemently defending the attackers if they were men, not what your personal feelings would be about the excessive nature of the response... Would you be 47 posts in (more than double the posts of the next closest poster) defending some niggas that caught swift justice?
You're a biased, man hating, carpet munching slore... Admit it.
It's so much that can be said about this..
Protect yourself @ all times. That's It. Don't start nothing...Won't be nothing. Punks jump up (over counters) to get beat the fuck down.. Don't bring a loud mouth and lesbians to a crazy nicca metal pole fight !!!!
I'm jokin but shit.... Don't start no crazy ass attack and expect not to have problems..
Them bitches got more than they bargained for, but exactly what they deserved.
If you on that wild out crazy shit, thats what you get. Fuck em.
Im mad dude had to deal with that shit. A regular muthafucka, And by that I mean someone w/o a criminal record such as his... coulda flipped out and did that or worse If provoked like that..... Who knows...
Fuck them bitches for that shit. Dude was protecting himself the best he knew...They just didn't know who THE FUCK HE WAS !!!
Let that be a lesson to all tough ass wanna be men ass bitches and hoe ass niccas that try to protect these mufuckas as helpless, frail females...... Stop expecting special treatment.
Protect yourself @ all times. That's It. Don't start nothing...Won't be nothing. Punks jump up (over counters) to get beat the fuck down.. Don't bring a loud mouth and lesbians to a crazy nicca metal pole fight !!!!
I'm jokin but shit.... Don't start no crazy ass attack and expect not to have problems..
Them bitches got more than they bargained for, but exactly what they deserved.
If you on that wild out crazy shit, thats what you get. Fuck em.
Im mad dude had to deal with that shit. A regular muthafucka, And by that I mean someone w/o a criminal record such as his... coulda flipped out and did that or worse If provoked like that..... Who knows...
Fuck them bitches for that shit. Dude was protecting himself the best he knew...They just didn't know who THE FUCK HE WAS !!!
Let that be a lesson to all tough ass wanna be men ass bitches and hoe ass niccas that try to protect these mufuckas as helpless, frail females...... Stop expecting special treatment.
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Questioning folks manhood seems to be your favorite thing to do huh? How about you question your biases, and wake the fuck up to the real world. Men aren't the only ones with moral responsibility, and having a pussy doesn't give you a free pass. The only reason you're in here in full defense mode is because the victims had vaginas. Admit it, and maybe you'd get some respect. I can't respect biased clowns that don't know they're full of it.
Sorry, if women want equality, that also applies to keeping your hands to yourself and respecting people at their job. Once they chased dude behind the counter at his JOB, that was a wrap. That single action showed that the normal methods of determent would not work. Since they chased him, he struck at them only to incapacitate them. They continued to try and get up and he struck again.
If this had been a chick running from two guys, she'd have a key to the city. Or even if the two women were guys.
If this had been a chick running from two guys, she'd have a key to the city. Or even if the two women were guys.
"All"? Really? Wow... I didn't know that.
Hmmm I am conflicted on this one
This entire scenario is screwed. However I know what I would have done. I would have run. That's right, run. I'm 6'4" and about 265lbs or so and have no fear of physical harm from them and I would have run my black ass ALL the way to the back the minute I was attacked. If I saw them coming to the back to pursue me I would have run "OUT OF THE BUILDING". They would have had to catch me in the parking lot, which I doubt they were prepared to do. Yeah I would have been clowned the next day at work, yeah I would have had to hear the jokes about Usain Bolt the next day at work, yeah I would have even probably clowned myself the next day at work by doing the 'Running Man' dance of some shit BUT the operative words are 'THE NEXT DAY AT WORK'. Now he has no next day at work.
I'm a black man in America. I'm already wrong. 3 times wrong.
1. I'm black.
2. I'm a man.
3. I'm in a country that has a history of enslaving and killing black men with little remorse and for no reason in many instances.
Knowing this I understand completely the quote in American Gangster which is "It's not in my best interest to say this Frank, but quitting while you're ahead, is not the same as quitting." The only way that a black man in this country is ever even 'possibly' ahead is when he's done 'nothing' wrong.
I completely understand what this man's rationale was. He was being attacked. He wanted to defend himself. He's spent a decade of his life behind bars watching what prison guards do to quell prisoners. That's exactly what he did. In fact we can thank our lovely correctional system for teaching this man to be excessive in his defense. He wasn't out of control. In fact he had complete control over the situation. He was calm even while striking his assailants. He only struck when there was an attempt by one of them to get up. I get it. The ladies were wrong. I get that too. That being said, you have GOT to know what your situation is. It's not about them it's about you.
He KNOWS that he's a convicted felon.
He KNOWS that he's on parole.
He KNOWS that he's black.
He KNOWS that he's in America.
He KNOWS that he's in a country that has a history of enslaving and killing black men with little remorse and for no reason in many instances.
He KNOWS that he cannot win here.
He KNOWS these things. He he MUST behave as such. He cannot afford to be in ANY type of situation for he has no help. He is an endangered species as a matter of fact so self preservation for him is the avoidance of conflict at ALL COSTS. As a whole our society doesn't care about black men at all. Our society doesn't protect black men at all. Our society actually is 'against' black men. Knowing this should be enough to let you know that when in Rome, do as the Romans do.
Run Forrest RUN!
I'm a black man in America. I'm already wrong. 3 times wrong.
1. I'm black.
2. I'm a man.
3. I'm in a country that has a history of enslaving and killing black men with little remorse and for no reason in many instances.
Knowing this I understand completely the quote in American Gangster which is "It's not in my best interest to say this Frank, but quitting while you're ahead, is not the same as quitting." The only way that a black man in this country is ever even 'possibly' ahead is when he's done 'nothing' wrong.
I completely understand what this man's rationale was. He was being attacked. He wanted to defend himself. He's spent a decade of his life behind bars watching what prison guards do to quell prisoners. That's exactly what he did. In fact we can thank our lovely correctional system for teaching this man to be excessive in his defense. He wasn't out of control. In fact he had complete control over the situation. He was calm even while striking his assailants. He only struck when there was an attempt by one of them to get up. I get it. The ladies were wrong. I get that too. That being said, you have GOT to know what your situation is. It's not about them it's about you.
He KNOWS that he's a convicted felon.
He KNOWS that he's on parole.
He KNOWS that he's black.
He KNOWS that he's in America.
He KNOWS that he's in a country that has a history of enslaving and killing black men with little remorse and for no reason in many instances.
He KNOWS that he cannot win here.
He KNOWS these things. He he MUST behave as such. He cannot afford to be in ANY type of situation for he has no help. He is an endangered species as a matter of fact so self preservation for him is the avoidance of conflict at ALL COSTS. As a whole our society doesn't care about black men at all. Our society doesn't protect black men at all. Our society actually is 'against' black men. Knowing this should be enough to let you know that when in Rome, do as the Romans do.
Run Forrest RUN!
The ONLY thing I'm incapable of understanding is the IRRATIONAL and INCOMPREHENSIBLE . . . This means you.
And throughout this entire thread, you have YET to RESOND TO or APPLY your bias against males, toward females.
I've not read the entire thread, but I can bet you NEVER referred to the FEAMLES as ANIMALS. And that says it ALL.
JG
Why do you keep making statements about what men think? Do you think that suggesting that anyone who doesn't think that way isn't a man helps your argument?
If you really are familiar with law you would know that the standard is "what a reasonable person" would have done.
Each case is different. Every lawyer knows that. The above example is distinguishable from the video because of points already stated, but ignored.
Any reasonable lawyer will point out in the video case that he DID stop. And ONLY struck the girls additionally when they continued to try and get up, which could easily be described as the girls continuing their aggression. Easily.
Who cares what the DA says? DA's lose cases every day. And who cares what 2 other lawyers say? If Lawyers agreed all the time, none of us could make money.
The defendant does not have to testify to explain his actions because his lawyer can use the video to speak for him. If he does not testify, then the jury will not be told of his prior felony conviction, which is only admissible if the defendant's character is put into issue by taking the stand or some other method. And of course that won't happen.
I agree they wanted to test him and they failed that test
I can't feel bad for the brotha because we all have choices. That day he made the wrong decision. This is a why I preach to my brothas and sistas to understand the laws we live by and to pick and choose are battles properly. Yes some women can cross the line and with how society views men on women violence it can be unfair to men. This is why brothas have to be smart. That was not the time to "teach a female her lesson" even though she deserved it.
A lot of you don't understand the way the court works. Yes you have the right to defend yourself but you "must make every attempt" to leave the situation. The court still hold you accountable for your actions and decisions. If someone approached you aggressively that is something the court states was not in your control. So defending yourself with "reasonable force" is allowed. If someone slaps you and you punch them back is "reasonable force". Picking up a bat after being slapped and hitting someone in the head is not "reasonable force".
He messed up by continuing to hit those females. He had no control over being approached so he was within the law to defend himself to diffuse the situation. But the law states that he has to attempt to leave the situation. Once they were on the ground by law he needed to attempt to make an exit.
You can't play the my life was in danger when you never saw a weapon. Plus on video there were several people frantically trying to get him to stop which negates the notion his life was in danger. Sometimes it is best to walk away to see another day. instead of putting your life in the hands of other people who may not see your side of the story as correct.
A lot of you don't understand the way the court works. Yes you have the right to defend yourself but you "must make every attempt" to leave the situation. The court still hold you accountable for your actions and decisions. If someone approached you aggressively that is something the court states was not in your control. So defending yourself with "reasonable force" is allowed. If someone slaps you and you punch them back is "reasonable force". Picking up a bat after being slapped and hitting someone in the head is not "reasonable force".
He messed up by continuing to hit those females. He had no control over being approached so he was within the law to defend himself to diffuse the situation. But the law states that he has to attempt to leave the situation. Once they were on the ground by law he needed to attempt to make an exit.
You can't play the my life was in danger when you never saw a weapon. Plus on video there were several people frantically trying to get him to stop which negates the notion his life was in danger. Sometimes it is best to walk away to see another day. instead of putting your life in the hands of other people who may not see your side of the story as correct.
Can we all just agree that Legacy infinity is just an idiot and wrong? I've shown this video to All of my employees and women and men agree, the aggressors who were wrong were the dykes in the video.
You are all arguing with someone who loves to just argue. She's not even a good debater because not only is she intellectually dishonest it's proven time and time again that's she's mentally off. On top of that all of her stories are obvious lies. She's the new Halo/Blunt of the board and you are all falling into it.
You are all arguing with someone who loves to just argue. She's not even a good debater because not only is she intellectually dishonest it's proven time and time again that's she's mentally off. On top of that all of her stories are obvious lies. She's the new Halo/Blunt of the board and you are all falling into it.
After 2 days of reflection and reading everyone's opinions on the topic I've come to agree with you on certain points. To some people, it's going to appear as if he's lost control and excessively beat the women. Could he have restrained himself to a greater degree? Most definitely. There are going to be points that both the defense and the prosecution will be arguing. The use of a weapon won't be one of the points because it was two against one and at the time of the conflict the man had no idea whether or not the women had any type of weapon. The speed and amount time it took for the conflict took place is also a consideration. The whole conflict occurred in about 45 seconds and there was a rapid escalations to violence. He had no realistic chance to develop a defense strategy. He was is a McDonald's kitchen area; he was basically cornered without a realistic avenue for escape. When the conflict got physical, he didn't throw a punch, he shoved them away. The women then came over the counter at him and he fled and retrieved the metal rod and defended himself. I believe his biggest problem is that when the women went down, you can't see what was happening because the counter obstructs the view on video. You don't know if he was just beating them needlessly or they were getting up to attack further. One can assume that they were trying to get up and he still felt threatened because he kept yelling to stay down then struck them again after saying that. This case rests on the actual visual witnesses testimony because they actually saw what the women were doing once they were down.
Just like we're arguing here, it will be argued in the jury room. This jury will be from Manhattan, which means that chances are it will be a fairly conservative jury. My guess is that, all things considered (more than likely he'll have a legal aid attorney unless someone takes the case pro bono), he'll cop a plea to Assault 2nd or 3rd degree and get a maximum of a year on Rykers Island.
Truth . . . I should smack myself for having even attempted. She'll probably use that as EVIDENCE of the BLACK MAN'S SAVAGERY.
Because we ALL KNOW that the violent portion of Black female prison population are full of misunderstood queens, and otherwise well mannered ladies. . . . But no ANIMALS.
JG
LoneStar29
Banned
You're so bitchmade
just cuz YOU cant handle or debate a difference of opinion that doesnt mean everyone else is the same and that noone should speak to her
Are you in kindergarten?? I mean really ... tryin get all the boys on your side is not only immature but gay
You are incapable of being biased in ANY issue yourself, you only see it from a bm's point of view ... so why get mad that she is seeing it from a womans point of view???
Who gives a fuck what your co-workers or the bitches in your workplace or in here who are dying for props think ... LI aint a sheep
LoneStar29
Banned
The funny part of how bitchmade you guys ALL are acting is that LI or myself have never once excused these womens behaviour ... all we have been saying is the force was excessive and that is it ... but because we're not in here clapping and cheering and rooting the beatdown, cuz we arent putting 100% blame on the bw and ZERO blame on the bm (like bgol does consistently) you guys all have an issue with our posts ... you guys are immature little faggots ... hold hands and conclude your fuckin circle jerk cuz this thread is dead
The sistas were wrong. They should've exhibited way more restraint.
Homie was right to defend himself UP TO A POINT. After he got the sis on the ground, he didn't have to keep going in on her. That's what's going to get him booked. Her climbing the counter bought her the asswhoopin. Him beating her while she was down is what's going to get him some time.
Gonna show this jawn to my homie who's a DA Asst. in Buffalo to see what she thinks.
Homie was right to defend himself UP TO A POINT. After he got the sis on the ground, he didn't have to keep going in on her. That's what's going to get him booked. Her climbing the counter bought her the asswhoopin. Him beating her while she was down is what's going to get him some time.
Gonna show this jawn to my homie who's a DA Asst. in Buffalo to see what she thinks.
This entire scenario is screwed. However I know what I would have done. I would have run. That's right, run. I'm 6'4" and about 265lbs or so and have no fear of physical harm from them and I would have run my black ass ALL the way to the back the minute I was attacked. If I saw them coming to the back to pursue me I would have run "OUT OF THE BUILDING". They would have had to catch me in the parking lot, which I doubt they were prepared to do. Yeah I would have been clowned the next day at work, yeah I would have had to hear the jokes about Usain Bolt the next day at work, yeah I would have even probably clowned myself the next day at work by doing the 'Running Man' dance of some shit BUT the operative words are 'THE NEXT DAY AT WORK'. Now he has no next day at work.
I'm a black man in America. I'm already wrong. 3 times wrong.
1. I'm black.
2. I'm a man.
3. I'm in a country that has a history of enslaving and killing black men with little remorse and for no reason in many instances.
Knowing this I understand completely the quote in American Gangster which is "It's not in my best interest to say this Frank, but quitting while you're ahead, is not the same as quitting." The only way that a black man in this country is ever even 'possibly' ahead is when he's done 'nothing' wrong.
I completely understand what this man's rationale was. He was being attacked. He wanted to defend himself. He's spent a decade of his life behind bars watching what prison guards do to quell prisoners. That's exactly what he did. In fact we can thank our lovely correctional system for teaching this man to be excessive in his defense. He wasn't out of control. In fact he had complete control over the situation. He was calm even while striking his assailants. He only struck when there was an attempt by one of them to get up. I get it. The ladies were wrong. I get that too. That being said, you have GOT to know what your situation is. It's not about them it's about you.
He KNOWS that he's a convicted felon.
He KNOWS that he's on parole.
He KNOWS that he's black.
He KNOWS that he's in America.
He KNOWS that he's in a country that has a history of enslaving and killing black men with little remorse and for no reason in many instances.
He KNOWS that he cannot win here.
He KNOWS these things. He he MUST behave as such. He cannot afford to be in ANY type of situation for he has no help. He is an endangered species as a matter of fact so self preservation for him is the avoidance of conflict at ALL COSTS. As a whole our society doesn't care about black men at all. Our society doesn't protect black men at all. Our society actually is 'against' black men. Knowing this should be enough to let you know that when in Rome, do as the Romans do.
Run Forrest RUN!
Can't disagree with this at all.
*dap*
This entire scenario is screwed. However I know what I would have done. I would have run. That's right, run. I'm 6'4" and about 265lbs or so and have no fear of physical harm from them and I would have run my black ass ALL the way to the back the minute I was attacked. If I saw them coming to the back to pursue me I would have run "OUT OF THE BUILDING". They would have had to catch me in the parking lot, which I doubt they were prepared to do. Yeah I would have been clowned the next day at work, yeah I would have had to hear the jokes about Usain Bolt the next day at work, yeah I would have even probably clowned myself the next day at work by doing the 'Running Man' dance of some shit BUT the operative words are 'THE NEXT DAY AT WORK'. Now he has no next day at work.
I'm a black man in America. I'm already wrong. 3 times wrong.
1. I'm black.
2. I'm a man.
3. I'm in a country that has a history of enslaving and killing black men with little remorse and for no reason in many instances.
Knowing this I understand completely the quote in American Gangster which is "It's not in my best interest to say this Frank, but quitting while you're ahead, is not the same as quitting." The only way that a black man in this country is ever even 'possibly' ahead is when he's done 'nothing' wrong.
I completely understand what this man's rationale was. He was being attacked. He wanted to defend himself. He's spent a decade of his life behind bars watching what prison guards do to quell prisoners. That's exactly what he did. In fact we can thank our lovely correctional system for teaching this man to be excessive in his defense. He wasn't out of control. In fact he had complete control over the situation. He was calm even while striking his assailants. He only struck when there was an attempt by one of them to get up. I get it. The ladies were wrong. I get that too. That being said, you have GOT to know what your situation is. It's not about them it's about you.
He KNOWS that he's a convicted felon.
He KNOWS that he's on parole.
He KNOWS that he's black.
He KNOWS that he's in America.
He KNOWS that he's in a country that has a history of enslaving and killing black men with little remorse and for no reason in many instances.
He KNOWS that he cannot win here.
He KNOWS these things. He he MUST behave as such. He cannot afford to be in ANY type of situation for he has no help. He is an endangered species as a matter of fact so self preservation for him is the avoidance of conflict at ALL COSTS. As a whole our society doesn't care about black men at all. Our society doesn't protect black men at all. Our society actually is 'against' black men. Knowing this should be enough to let you know that when in Rome, do as the Romans do.
Run Forrest RUN!
somebody gets itNOW look at who "can't handle a difference of opinion" . . . .
"Fag" this, "little boy" that, "bitchmade" this . . . . ."circle jerk", "circle jerk", "circle jerk" ALL that 'gay'/wannabe emasculating talk, really?
Yet you two are STALKING this thread like hot pets, sniffing and licking the slit and ass end of each other's FAILED reasoning. Get a room.
JG
Imagine if those women were white. If they were I doubt they would be jumping over the counter at a mcdonalds. We need to check our priorities. I noticed that we love to win public confrontations with a complete stranger instead of walking away while not loosing anything. We need to get that "I aint no pussy" mentality out of our heads.
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